Just Upgraded from Ubuntu 9.04 to 9.10...Won't even boot....

JEDIDIAH writes:

On 2010-01-24, Ignoramus27518 wrote:


On 2010-01-24, RonB wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:39:51 -0600, Ignoramus27518 wrote:

My own conclusion on this matter is that what really "slows down desktop
adoption of Linux" is the fact that desktop Linux is full of bugs. The
bugs turn people away because they cannot fix bugs. If it was not full
of bugs, we would see use of Linux at least 10%.

As of now, desktop Linux is great, until you encounter some bug with
zero path to resolution.

Really? I've been using various distributions of Linux exclusively for
two years and haven't run into any bugs with "zero path to resolution" --
so, perhaps, you give a couple examples?


Sure. I will give you one example instead of requested two. It is
getting late.

Ubuntu Karmic.

Firefox browser runs with youtube video open.

User leaves and comes back after 1 day.

Sound from firefox no longer works.

User closes firefox.

User starts another firefox.

New firefox says "another instance of firefox is running".

No way to start a browser now.

...now you are just a confirmed troll.

Now this sort of thing happens on occasion in Windows. The Windows way
of dealing with this would be to use the task manager to kill any errant
firefox processes that might be running.

Do the same thing under Ubuntu.

The relevant utility is called "system monitor".

Now you're really showing your ignorance. This happens a LOT with
firefox on Linux. Well, Iceweasel on Debian. There are also issues when
you use twinview and profiles - firefox gets confused as to what it
should be doing.

On 2010-01-24, Dave wrote:




"Moshe Goldfarb" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 06:15:57 +0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:37:59 -0500, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:

So now what?
Boots to a CLI.
The person who owns this system is not happy. She clicked update and
that was it.
Gone good bye.

Yea Linux is great.
Sure it is.
Keep telling yourselves that.

And KSODs and BSODs never happen with Windows, either. Get a life,
flatline.

Upgraded 12 systems to Windows 7 and not a single problem.
Everything just works.
I'm not sure what you and your friends are doing wrong, but it
works fine for me.

I have a life BTW.
The reason I have a life is because I don't run Ubuntu which
consumes time like a cheap whore consumes sperm.

You Linux freaks spend all your time making Linux work.
It's a losing battle BTW.

Almost 20 years and Linux still is less than 1 percent of the
desktop market.
That's a failure in most people's eyes.

It's pretty pathetic when something that is free is ignored.


--

1/24/2010 1:23:43 AM

Starting appx 20 years ago I tried Linux in quite a few different flavors,

...starting 20 years ago eh?

You are a very bad liar.

[deletia]

--
On the subject of kilobyte being "redefined" to mean 1000 bytes...

When I was a wee lad, I was taught that SI units were |||
meant to be computationally convenient rather than just / | \
arbitrarily assigned.

On 2010-01-24, C wrote:


Dave wrote:

Sorry for my rant, but I get tired of reading all the idiotic postings
from Linux users who can't make a US Robotics modem work and then want

What's to make work? You send AT commands to it.

I haven't used a "modem" in at least 10 years. A little thing called
broadband came along and made those old things pretty much entirely obsolete.

to flame Windows. Yeah, I know I'm stupid, I have to have a platform
that will AUTOMATICALLY support the most well-known modem in the world.
(And I'm tired of reading :-D )

What do you need the US Robotics modem for?


Yeah... really.

Talk about a blast from the past...

--
On the subject of kilobyte being "redefined" to mean 1000 bytes...

When I was a wee lad, I was taught that SI units were |||
meant to be computationally convenient rather than just / | \
arbitrarily assigned.

"Hadron" wrote in message
...
JEDIDIAH writes:

On 2010-01-24, Ignoramus27518
wrote:


On 2010-01-24, RonB wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:39:51 -0600, Ignoramus27518 wrote:

My own conclusion on this matter is that what really "slows down
desktop
adoption of Linux" is the fact that desktop Linux is full of bugs. The
bugs turn people away because they cannot fix bugs. If it was not full
of bugs, we would see use of Linux at least 10%.

As of now, desktop Linux is great, until you encounter some bug with
zero path to resolution.

Really? I've been using various distributions of Linux exclusively for
two years and haven't run into any bugs with "zero path to
resolution" --
so, perhaps, you give a couple examples?


Sure. I will give you one example instead of requested two. It is
getting late.

Ubuntu Karmic.

Firefox browser runs with youtube video open.

User leaves and comes back after 1 day.

Sound from firefox no longer works.

User closes firefox.

User starts another firefox.

New firefox says "another instance of firefox is running".

No way to start a browser now.

...now you are just a confirmed troll.

Now this sort of thing happens on occasion in Windows. The Windows
way
of dealing with this would be to use the task manager to kill any errant
firefox processes that might be running.

Do the same thing under Ubuntu.

The relevant utility is called "system monitor".

Now you're really showing your ignorance. This happens a LOT with
firefox on Linux. Well, Iceweasel on Debian. There are also issues when
you use twinview and profiles - firefox gets confused as to what it
should be doing.


That you Tim?
If so how's it going?

-Andrew

You are not stupid. Otherwise you wouldn't know that you were stupid.
+*+=+, +*-=-, -*+=-, -*-=+. Try brain**** as a programming language

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:05:40 +0100, C
wrote:

Dave wrote:

Sorry for my rant, but I get tired of reading all the idiotic postings
from Linux users who can't make a US Robotics modem work and then want
to flame Windows. Yeah, I know I'm stupid, I have to have a platform
that will AUTOMATICALLY support the most well-known modem in the world.
(And I'm tired of reading :-D )

What do you need the US Robotics modem for?

--
C


HELP! I CAN'T STOP TYPING IN CAPITAL LETTERS UNDER WINDOWS!

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 12:55:19 +0000, Bill Bonde {Colourless green ideas
don't sleep furiously) wrote:

RonB wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:56:19 -0600, Ignoramus27518 wrote:

On 2010-01-24, RonB wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:39:51 -0600, Ignoramus27518 wrote:

My own conclusion on this matter is that what really "slows down
desktop adoption of Linux" is the fact that desktop Linux is full
of bugs. The bugs turn people away because they cannot fix bugs. If
it was not full of bugs, we would see use of Linux at least 10%.

As of now, desktop Linux is great, until you encounter some bug
with zero path to resolution.

Really? I've been using various distributions of Linux exclusively
for two years and haven't run into any bugs with "zero path to
resolution" -- so, perhaps, you give a couple examples?


Sure. I will give you one example instead of requested two. It is
getting late.

Ubuntu Karmic.

Firefox browser runs with youtube video open.

User leaves and comes back after 1 day.

Sound from firefox no longer works.

User closes firefox.

User starts another firefox.

New firefox says "another instance of firefox is running".

No way to start a browser now.

Oh really. And this "zero path to resolution" user has never heard of
the kill command?

Another option would be to reboot the machine, a skill likely finely
honed by years of using it with Windows.

You might say it's "intuitive."

--
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
CentOS 5.4 or Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 07:21:21 -0500, Dave \"Crash\" Dummy wrote:

I think the reason for Linux's success in the server arena is that MS
servers are so expensive.

Especially considering that Linux does the job better.

--
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
CentOS 5.4 or Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0

RonB writes:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 07:21:21 -0500, Dave \"Crash\" Dummy wrote:

I think the reason for Linux's success in the server arena is that MS
servers are so expensive.

Especially considering that Linux does the job better.

What job WronG?

You don't know anything whatsoever about what you're referring to.

How good is it's exchange or iis for example? Like it not, Exchange is
the leading mail/collaboration SW for small to big businesses.

What on earth makes you feel you're qualified to comment on businesses
needs when we have already established that your needs are the odd game
of tetris and gedit?

On 2010-01-24, Hadron wrote:
Ignoramus12856 writes:
I think the main reason for Linux's success in the server arena is that
servers are usually tended to by dedicated system admins who are tech
gurus compared to the average desktop users. I've used Linux from about
version 0.93 and eventually I gave it up because it just took too much
of my time to manage compared to Windows. As you get older, time becomes
too precious to waste.
For me, Linux takes less time to manage than Windows. I manage Linux
at home and at work with scripts instead of GUI, and it takes no

What scripts do you use to manage your Home linux system? And why
are they are any quicker than adminning with a GUI? Keeping in mind that
most is set up once and then run automagically.

I want to preface this by saying that I will only discuss my home
setup, not the machines I admin at work. I have about 9 machines that
I own. They have different "roles", which define somewhat what they
do. For example, they can have a webserver role, or entertainment
role, wifi role (for laptops), etc. They can have any combination of
roles. For example, my personal laptop has entertainment role as well
as webserver role. So the laptop is a webserver. Every role defines
set of packages to install and customizations to apply. So my scripts
run on every machine, determine what role it is, and then perform
suitable actions. The actions, for example, include setting up user
accounts for family members, their faces, setting up websites for
apache2, etc.

So if I set up a new machine, all I need to do is define its roles,
and run my scripts, and it will be fully set up. Reinstall is even
easier, since roles are already defined.

If I learned about some great package, I add it to package list of a
particular role, and it gets installed on the appropriate machines.

It is really great and tremendously cuts down on the amount of time I
spend doing system administration.

You do know there are solutions for central adminning of windows
workstations too don't you?

I heard about it, but everything that I heard was not nearly as easy
to set up and it was not as flexible. I am not particularly interested
in Windows, so I may have missed something.



time. For example, if I find a package that I like and want to add it,
I append it to a certain list of packages and it is installed at night
automatically on all boxes that I manage that have a proper
"role". Works out great, especially if a computer needs a complete
reinstall, for example.

This is a great example - but about the only one IMO that is so much
easier than comparative Windows solutions. If the SW you want is apt
supported for example it's a breeze. You might also consider centralised
apt caches so its downloaded only once by your proxy repository.

Some (like XV) are not apt supported. So I have a shell function to
install XV. It downloads the tarball and does make and make install --
all without me doing anything. This is a HUGE time saver for me, and I
also know that when I set up a new machine, I have not forgotten to do
something.

Just because something is not apt supported, does not make it hard to
install. Just a little more cumbersome. The typical install of some
Linux software, is download, configure, make and make install, and can
be automated.

When I install something the first time, I save the commands that I
run, then I generalize them a bit and save them as a shell function.
Then it is ready to run on all machines.

This automation is where Debian/Ubuntu really shines. They spent a lot
of efforts on making their OS more customizable.


That automation is great in Linux and much more difficult than in
Windows.

I also find that Gnome is a great UI that works well in most cases.

Peter Koehlmann says its garbage and only for Window Fanboyz and
idiots. Linus Torwalds uses it.

I like it, though I use fvwm at work.

But the bugs are maddening and they negate the whole experience for
users who are not experienced troubleshooters.


Indeed.

What I was getting at, is that if the "Linux desktop community" got
their act together, and fixed those bugs, then Linux would finally
become a very serious desktop OS player, like it is in the server
space and gadget space.

I think that the Microsoft advantages that stem from it being big, and
having marketing money, are real, but seriously overstated.

If Linux could be a reliably functioning desktop OS, like Ubuntu would
be without bugs, very many people and businesses would switch to
it. Maybe not everyone, but a lot more than now. As of now, people try
Linux, get hit with some bug that they cannot fix, and give up.

i

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:59:48 -0600, Dave wrote:

When you need tech support, the only place to get help is in forums.

So buy a version that comes with technical support -- like Red Hat or
SuSE. Personally I've found better answers more quickly on the Linux
forums than with Microsoft "support." "KSOD on Vista? Reinstall." That
about sums up my support experience with Microsoft. Try to reboot, if that
doesn't work, reinstall."

--
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
CentOS 5.4 or Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0

RonB writes:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:59:48 -0600, Dave wrote:

When you need tech support, the only place to get help is in forums.

So buy a version that comes with technical support -- like Red Hat or
SuSE. Personally I've found better answers more quickly on the Linux
forums than with Microsoft "support." "KSOD on Vista? Reinstall." That
about sums up my support experience with Microsoft. Try to reboot, if that
doesn't work, reinstall."

But we've already established that you're an idiot. What on earth do
your "findings" mean to anyone else? You were unable to install a virus
checker for example so I doubt very much if you have anything whatsoever
to add that might help Dave.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:09:10 -0600, Ignoramus12856 wrote:

But the bugs are maddening and they negate the whole experience for
users who are not experienced troubleshooters.

Trouble shooting is simply the use of logic and the ability to do research
and is enhanced by experience. Too many people are simply lazy. It's
easier to throw up their hands and whine instead of making the minimal
effort necessary to fix a problem.

Out of curiosity, what problems are you having with Gnome?

--
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
CentOS 5.4 or Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0

On 2010-01-24, Hadron wrote:


JEDIDIAH writes:

On 2010-01-24, Ignoramus27518 wrote:


On 2010-01-24, RonB wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:39:51 -0600, Ignoramus27518 wrote:

My own conclusion on this matter is that what really "slows down desktop
adoption of Linux" is the fact that desktop Linux is full of bugs. The
bugs turn people away because they cannot fix bugs. If it was not full
of bugs, we would see use of Linux at least 10%.

As of now, desktop Linux is great, until you encounter some bug with
zero path to resolution.

Really? I've been using various distributions of Linux exclusively for
two years and haven't run into any bugs with "zero path to resolution" --
so, perhaps, you give a couple examples?


Sure. I will give you one example instead of requested two. It is
getting late.

Ubuntu Karmic.

Firefox browser runs with youtube video open.

User leaves and comes back after 1 day.

Sound from firefox no longer works.

User closes firefox.

User starts another firefox.

New firefox says "another instance of firefox is running".

No way to start a browser now.

...now you are just a confirmed troll.

Now this sort of thing happens on occasion in Windows. The Windows way
of dealing with this would be to use the task manager to kill any errant
firefox processes that might be running.

Do the same thing under Ubuntu.

The relevant utility is called "system monitor".

Now you're really showing your ignorance. This happens a LOT with
firefox on Linux. Well, Iceweasel on Debian. There are also issues when

No not really...

Certainly not compared with all sorts of different things that have a
tendency to hang in Windows and just block whatever screen real estate they
happen to be using.

you use twinview and profiles - firefox gets confused as to what it
should be doing.



--
Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have |||
better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't / | \
want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd
rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:01:49 -0600, Ignoramus12856 wrote:

On 2010-01-24, RonB wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:56:19 -0600, Ignoramus27518 wrote:

On 2010-01-24, RonB wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:39:51 -0600, Ignoramus27518 wrote:

My own conclusion on this matter is that what really "slows down
desktop adoption of Linux" is the fact that desktop Linux is full of
bugs. The bugs turn people away because they cannot fix bugs. If it
was not full of bugs, we would see use of Linux at least 10%.

As of now, desktop Linux is great, until you encounter some bug with
zero path to resolution.

Really? I've been using various distributions of Linux exclusively
for two years and haven't run into any bugs with "zero path to
resolution" -- so, perhaps, you give a couple examples?


Sure. I will give you one example instead of requested two. It is
getting late.

Ubuntu Karmic.

Firefox browser runs with youtube video open.

User leaves and comes back after 1 day.

Sound from firefox no longer works.

User closes firefox.

User starts another firefox.

New firefox says "another instance of firefox is running".

No way to start a browser now.

Oh really. And this "zero path to resolution" user has never heard of
the kill command?

Exactly.

The "problem" is that pulseaudio support on ubuntu is full of bugs,
hence disappearance of sound, and another problem is that in this
situation, old firefox does not actually die, though the window goes
away.

Applications also do this sort of thing in Windows. The advantage of
Linux is that you have a kill command. (Look it up.)

I am not sure whny you insist on comparing to Windows, but, if so,
Windows does have a kill command, it is called task manager.

Figuring all of that out requires some googling skills, knowledge of
"ps", "grep" and other general Unix troubleshooting skills. If the
user could do it, open terminal, and type something like "killall
firefox", he or she would be able to continue, but a less skillful
person would just give up.

Oh, so you know about the resolution -- and yet you claim that there is
"zero chance of resolution." Not very convincing, WinTroll.

I have used Linux since 1995. So I know a few things.

Now give those two examples of "zero chance for resolution" problems
that supposedly exist in Linux. Because you sure didn't do that with
what you wrote above. (And it's obvious that you're clueless about the
subject... surprise, surprise.)

You want a second example? Is that what you want?

i

No, I'm still looking for the first example of a problem with a "zero
resolution path." You really don't have any, do you?

--
RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
CentOS 5.4 or Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0

RonB writes:

On Sun, 24 Jan 2010 09:09:10 -0600, Ignoramus12856 wrote:

But the bugs are maddening and they negate the whole experience for
users who are not experienced troubleshooters.

Trouble shooting is simply the use of logic and the ability to do research
and is enhanced by experience. Too many people are simply lazy. It's
easier to throw up their hands and whine instead of making the minimal
effort necessary to fix a problem.

You mean like you poasting time and time again how your Windows machine
rebooted twenty times a day and your entire working day was spent
"fighting malware": wow, like Ahlstrom, you forget your own lies so
quickly you have landed yourself in the soup once more!



Out of curiosity, what problems are you having with Gnome?