Is there a way to stop W10 from resetting default applications?

Hi All,

When I install a program that takes over certain defaults, IranView or
instance, W-Nein (W10) tells me tells me that an applications has taken
over certain defaults and they are being changed back.

Is there a way to tell W-Nien to bugger off and let the programs set the
defaults if I ask them to? (It annoys me to no end having to go into
settings and reset them.)

Many thanks,
-T

T wrote:

When I install a program that takes over certain defaults, IranView or
instance, W-Nein (W10) tells me tells me that an applications has taken
over certain defaults and they are being changed back.

Is there a way to tell W-Nien to bugger off and let the programs set the
defaults if I ask them to? (It annoys me to no end having to go into
settings and reset them.)

How would any OS know that a change in filetype associations was from
you installing a program that stole away some of them or you configuring
that newly installed program to steal away some associations? What if
the installer presented a screen of association selections but the OS
refused to allow the changes? Then you'd think the OS was overbearing.

Your problem is with whatever is the software that you install that
decided to steal association without notifying the user. The last time
I ran into that was probably around 15-20 years ago with RealPlayer
(which they later fixed after lots of complaints). You sure the
offending program's installer has no custom setup choice where there
user can decide what, if any, associations that program will acquire?

I remember using WinPatrol (free) a long time ago. One of its features
is to alert you if filetype associations had been changed. Alas, I
found that later versions (which are now old) would not prompt me until
I restarted Windows and then, boom, a whole bunch of notifications
appeared about changes to associations. The free version deliberately
lags in its monitoring as a lure to buy the payware version. I had all
its alerts set to 1 minute which is the minimum polling interval in the
free version. I don't think you can even get the free version anymore,
just the Plus payware version. The author (BillP) of WinPatrol kept a
free version until he sold off his software to RuiWare (who sells under
the WinPatrol company name - perhaps hoping the majority of users didn't
realize the product changed ownership). The only hint you'll see is at
https://www.winpatrol.com/about-us/ where the postal mailing address
still lists RuiWare LLC.

There used to be a NoFileAssociate registry key that kept users from
changing filetype associations (but power and admin users could still do
what they want and why you assign normal user accounts to boobs). See:

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...=winserver8gen

I don't know if that works under Windows 10.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...s-for-it-pros/

That is about managing a Windows 10 workstation in a domain by forcing a
policy by pointing at an XML file with the associations that are
mandated by the IT folks.

Instead of relying on policies, you could create a login script (batch
file) that uses the FTYPE or ASSOC commands to setup the mandated
associations when the user logs in. You could go into the user's
account and under advanced settings set the login script to point at
your batch file. Or you could add a scheduled event in Task Scheduler
that runs on login (for either a particular user or all users). The
user won't see the login script when it runs but they will see the
console window when the cmd.exe shell loads to run a batch file.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ser-in-windows

I don't think the host must be in a domain to use a login script. I
remember seeing it when I had a Pro version of Windows. The Home
version might not grant you that access, so you're stuck using a
scheduled task that runs on login. You don't want to put it in the
Startup folder in the Start menu because any user will notice it there.
Obviously a login script or scheduled event on login that runs a batch
file is only going to enforce the associations define within the script
at the time it runs, not sometime later when installing a program that
steals associations without asking permission.

T wrote in news
Hi All,

When I install a program that takes over certain defaults, IranView or
instance, W-Nein (W10) tells me tells me that an applications has taken
over certain defaults and they are being changed back.

Is there a way to tell W-Nien to bugger off and let the programs set the
defaults if I ask them to? (It annoys me to no end having to go into
settings and reset them.)

Many thanks,
-T
That is a know bug with 1809, which has not been fixed yet. IIRC, it mainly
concerns file associations that Windows sets up for its own applications.
Microsoft has promised a fix "Real Soon Now".

VanguardLH wrote:

Your problem is with whatever is the software that you install that
decided to steal association without notifying the user.

No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the PDF
association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my default
PDF reader.

On 2018-12-01, Andy Burns wrote:
No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the PDF
association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my default
PDF reader.

Microsoft seems intent on tricking, if not outright forcing, people into
using Edge whether they want to or not.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
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Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

T wrote:
Hi All,

When I install a program that takes over certain defaults, IranView or
instance, W-Nein (W10) tells me tells me that an applications has taken
over certain defaults and they are being changed back.

Is there a way to tell W-Nien to bugger off and let the programs set the
defaults if I ask them to? (It annoys me to no end having to go into
settings and reset them.)

Many thanks,
-T

Default associations (as Tim says) are broken again on 1809.

There is a method here you can test, where you "copy" the
associations from your "golden" setup, and then export
to the target machine. You could at least check
the Export side, and see what info it passes. This
really should not work any more reliably, than the
changes people have been making using the official
interface (which fail to work properly). There's nothing
magic about this method, except it saves time mousing
in that interface. The "Import" function still needs
to call the system crypto interface, to generate keys
for the target machine. (I don't think the crypto keys
are transferable, as the *date* of installation is
hashed in or something.)

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/pre...%28v=win.10%29

[These are my proposed command formats, based on
the info on the web page.]

# Technician machine (dump to a USB stick)
Dism /Online /Export-DefaultAppAssociations:F:\AppAssoc.xml

# Target machine (USB stick at F: , via sneakernet)
Dism /Online /Import-DefaultAppAssociations:F:\AppAssoc.xml

What you should know, is the registry is protected by encryption.
This prevents ordinary applications from modifying the necessary
registry entries directly. If anything disturbs the "integrity"
of the crypto, the system resets the default. (That means,
from a design perspective, this is a ticking-time-bomb approach.)

If the user goes through the manual interface in Settings or
whatever, this uses some system code which has the crypto
details.

The developers at Firefox, should not have this code, nor
know the algorithm. That prevents Firefox from "swacking"
the association and making Firefox the default browser.

Now, someone worked out all the details, and provided a
demo application showing that the reverse engineering
was correct. But to avoid being charged under the DMCA,
this individual left out the details of the crypto (so
third parties would have to reverse engineer this app
to figure it out). Microsoft (obviously) on seeing this,
would have to retaliate by changing the crypto again.
For example, I could bundle this application with
Firefox and make myself the default browser perhaps.
You can see the potential for "proper mayhem".

http://kolbi.cz/blog/?p=346

"SetUserFTA will get the current users SID, the
registry timestamp and calculates the hash. It will
write it (including the ProgId and the extension)
to the user registry under the subkey referenced above.

how to use SetUserFTA: [File Type Association]

SetUserFTA.exe extension progid (optional:Groupname)

...

IMPORTANT: SetUserFTA must run in the users context – no
administrative or system privileges. Sometimes the timing
can be important as well - make sure it runs after the
profile of the user is loaded.
"

The crypto is there, to prevent anything other than
a system dialog from changing the association. Or that's
the "stated" design intent. Based on the bug-ridden behavior,
we know that's not really the design intent, at all.

"velvetsweatshop" indeed.

(velvetsweatshop is part of the *default* crypto on Office files.)

Paul

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 13:37:33 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2018-12-01, Andy Burns wrote:
No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the PDF
association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my default
PDF reader.

Microsoft seems intent on tricking, if not outright forcing, people into
using Edge whether they want to or not.



That's not my experience at all. They may be intent on it, but they
certainly don't trick or force it. I never use it and I am never
tricked or forced to use it.

On 12/1/18 7:35 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 13:37:33 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2018-12-01, Andy Burns wrote:
No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the PDF
association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my default
PDF reader.

Microsoft seems intent on tricking, if not outright forcing, people into
using Edge whether they want to or not.



That's not my experience at all. They may be intent on it, but they
certainly don't trick or force it. I never use it and I am never
tricked or forced to use it.


I see it setting Firefox, Thunderbird, PDF Readers, IrvanView,
VLC back to the default. I have to go into App settings,
Defaults and change them back. They do stay changed though.

Oh ya, and M$ is really proud of Edge. I remove the icon and
replace it with IE's. My customers really, really dislike
Edge.

Andy Burns wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Your problem is with whatever is the software that you install that
decided to steal association without notifying the user.

No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the PDF
association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my default
PDF reader.

My reading of T's post was that some software that T had installed
("When I install a program that takes over certain defaults") had stolen
some filetype associations without notice, not that Windows 10 or an
update to it caused a change in associations. It looked like T wanted
Windows to enforce or lock the current associations and not let any
person or software to change them. There look to be policies (which are
registry entries, so also registry edits) that would lock the filetype
associations per user account (but not for admin or power users). T did
not say which edition of Windows 10. If the Home edition, the policy
editor is unavailable although registry edits can effect them.

On Sat, 01 Dec 2018 08:35:30 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 13:37:33 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2018-12-01, Andy Burns wrote:
No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the PDF
association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my default
PDF reader.

Microsoft seems intent on tricking, if not outright forcing, people into
using Edge whether they want to or not.



That's not my experience at all. They may be intent on it, but they
certainly don't trick or force it. I never use it and I am never
tricked or forced to use it.

I don't know about tricked but there are times when W10 calls up Edge
rather than FireFox.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2018-12-01, Ken Blake wrote:
That's not my experience at all. They may be intent on it, but they
certainly don't trick or force it. I never use it and I am never
tricked or forced to use it.

Recently they started putting the Edge icon on the desktop to trick
people into using it. (The typical user just sees the "E" icon.) This
started happening even on PCs that had already been set up to eliminate
Edge from the user's view. (Of course it's always on the quick-launch
bar by default as well.) On several PCs when searching for Internet Explorer
I've seen Edge come up instead. Then of course it's the default PDF
reader. As others have reported, it is not uncommon for Edge to be set
back as default for internet and PDFs after updates.

Most businesses do not want to be using Edge. It has been a challenge
keeping it at bay, like an infectious bacillus. For that matter it's a
challenge keeping most of the obnoxious crap in Windows 10 turned off
for use in businesses. This stuff should be opt-in rather than having
to keep finding ways to opt out.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

VanguardLH wrote in :

Andy Burns wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Your problem is with whatever is the software that you install that
decided to steal association without notifying the user.

No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the PDF
association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my default
PDF reader.

My reading of T's post was that some software that T had installed
("When I install a program that takes over certain defaults") had stolen
some filetype associations without notice, not that Windows 10 or an
update to it caused a change in associations. It looked like T wanted
Windows to enforce or lock the current associations and not let any
person or software to change them. There look to be policies (which are
registry entries, so also registry edits) that would lock the filetype
associations per user account (but not for admin or power users). T did
not say which edition of Windows 10. If the Home edition, the policy
editor is unavailable although registry edits can effect them.

It is not so much 'lock' the changes as just not change them back without
asking. Unless you can lock the registry files and keep them from being
updated you cannot lock any file defaults, since that is where they are
stored.

T wrote in news
On 12/1/18 7:35 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 13:37:33 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2018-12-01, Andy Burns wrote:
No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the
PDF association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my
default PDF reader.


That's not my experience at all. They may be intent on it, but they
certainly don't trick or force it. I never use it and I am never
tricked or forced to use it.


I see it setting Firefox, Thunderbird, PDF Readers, IrvanView,
VLC back to the default. I have to go into App settings,
Defaults and change them back. They do stay changed though.

All of those programs you listed are replacements for programs Microsoft
supplies as part of Windows. That is where the bug lies. Once you install
your replacement programs, the registry entries are temporarily changed,
but at next boot the changes are thrown away and all are set back to
Windows' programs. As for as I know, as of yesterday, the bug has not been
fixed, and there has been no forcast as to when it will.

If you are a registry wizard you can create a little batch file to update
the registry entries with the values you want, and execute it whenever you
log on. Just be very careful, AND BACK UP THE REGISTRY BEFORE YOU START!

Tim wrote:
T wrote in news
On 12/1/18 7:35 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 13:37:33 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:

On 2018-12-01, Andy Burns wrote:
No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the
PDF association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my
default PDF reader.
That's not my experience at all. They may be intent on it, but they
certainly don't trick or force it. I never use it and I am never
tricked or forced to use it.

I see it setting Firefox, Thunderbird, PDF Readers, IrvanView,
VLC back to the default. I have to go into App settings,
Defaults and change them back. They do stay changed though.

All of those programs you listed are replacements for programs Microsoft
supplies as part of Windows. That is where the bug lies. Once you install
your replacement programs, the registry entries are temporarily changed,
but at next boot the changes are thrown away and all are set back to
Windows' programs. As for as I know, as of yesterday, the bug has not been
fixed, and there has been no forcast as to when it will.

If you are a registry wizard you can create a little batch file to update
the registry entries with the values you want, and execute it whenever you
log on. Just be very careful, AND BACK UP THE REGISTRY BEFORE YOU START!

Todd can test things like this on a VM, before heading
off to a customer site.

http://kolbi.cz/blog/?p=346

"SetUserFTA: UserChoice Hash defeated – Set File Type Associations
per User or Group on Windows 8/10 and 2012/2016/2019"

http://kolbi.cz/SetUserFTA.zip Version 1.7.1
"

http://kolbi.cz/blog/2017/11/10/setd...16-build-1607/

"SetDefaultBrowser – Set the Default Browser per command line or script"

http://kolbi.cz/SetDefaultBrowser.zip Version 1.3

HTH,
Paul

Tim wrote:

VanguardLH wrote in :

Andy Burns wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Your problem is with whatever is the software that you install that
decided to steal association without notifying the user.

No, I've had occasions where Win10 announces that it has reset the PDF
association to Edge, immediately after I tell Sumatra to be my default
PDF reader.

My reading of T's post was that some software that T had installed
("When I install a program that takes over certain defaults") had stolen
some filetype associations without notice, not that Windows 10 or an
update to it caused a change in associations. It looked like T wanted
Windows to enforce or lock the current associations and not let any
person or software to change them. There look to be policies (which are
registry entries, so also registry edits) that would lock the filetype
associations per user account (but not for admin or power users). T did
not say which edition of Windows 10. If the Home edition, the policy
editor is unavailable although registry edits can effect them.

It is not so much 'lock' the changes as just not change them back without
asking. Unless you can lock the registry files and keep them from being
updated you cannot lock any file defaults, since that is where they are
stored.

I already gave instructions on how to set the filetype association on
your login to your Windows account and that's the only time those
associations have any value - when YOU are using the computer, not some
processes that run outside of your logged in session.