Windows XP Pro WINS mixups

Hi Everyone,

I hope that this question hasn't already been asked and answered. I haven't
been able to find anything, so here goes...


We run a Windows 2000 network with mainly Windows 2000 workstations. DHCP,
DNS, and Secondary WINS are provided by SERVER1. Primary WINS and Secondary
DNS are provided by SERVER2.

We are experiencing a problem where Windows XP Professional workstations
list the WINS servers in the wrong order after boot. Basically when the
machine gets it's DHCP information, it lists SERVER1 as Primary WINS server
and SERVER2 as secondary. In the WINS database some entries for the PC are
in SERVER1's database, and some are in the database of SERVER2. After about
30 minutes the workstation sorts itself out an shows that SERVER2 is the
Primary WINS server, and the WINS database shows all records registered on
SERVER2.

We are having some name resolution problems with these XP machines during
this period of time. If anyone has seen this before and/or knows of a
resolution I would really appreciate it.

If at all possible please CC replies to email as well.

Thank you,

Robert

"Robert Isaac" wrote in message
news:T7bSb.31225$P51.11115@clgrps12...
Hi Everyone,

I hope that this question hasn't already been asked and answered. I
haven't
been able to find anything, so here goes...


We run a Windows 2000 network with mainly Windows 2000 workstations.
DHCP,
DNS, and Secondary WINS are provided by SERVER1. Primary WINS and
Secondary
DNS are provided by SERVER2.

We are experiencing a problem where Windows XP Professional workstations
list the WINS servers in the wrong order after boot. Basically when the
machine gets it's DHCP information, it lists SERVER1 as Primary WINS
server
and SERVER2 as secondary. In the WINS database some entries for the PC
are
in SERVER1's database, and some are in the database of SERVER2. After
about
30 minutes the workstation sorts itself out an shows that SERVER2 is the
Primary WINS server, and the WINS database shows all records registered on
SERVER2.

We are having some name resolution problems with these XP machines during
this period of time. If anyone has seen this before and/or knows of a
resolution I would really appreciate it.

If at all possible please CC replies to email as well.

Thank you,

Robert




I don't know what is causing the problem, and I have seen similar oddities
with NT4. ( statically assigned NT4 SP6a server; Pri and Sec WINS specified
in Network Control Panel; but IPCONFIG lists them in reverse order. I
never did run a sniff to determine which was lying - IPCONFIG or the Control
Panel. ) Nonetheless, here's some general suggestions:

1) With WINS, less is more.
By that, I mean that the fewer WINS servers you can manage with, the better.
You need to look at your network topology to determine how many servers are
required, where they should be, and how the replication should work.

As a general rule, I'd put one WINS server in each remote location (
connected by a slow WAN link ). Then 2 WINS servers in central office, one
as a 'hub' server for all the others to replicate to,, and one user-facing
in central office. Each workstation points to local WINS as primary, and
the central 'hub' as secondary. Each remote location server push-pull
replicates with only the hub machine.

This way, all machines get fast local registration and name resolution, and
over time, each outlying subnet WINS server updates the central hub. The
central hub then pushes the merged database back out to all the outlying
WINS servers.

Having the hub machine as secondary provides a degree of fault tollerance,
so that if a local server goes down, user workstations continue to register
/ query but at a slower speed across the WAN.

So in your situation, do you have remote subnets?
How many clients are you serving?
If you have a single small site, consider whether you really need 2 WINS
servers.
In a win2k network, WINS traffic is usually lowish if DNS is working.

2) Are your WINS servers replication partners with each other?
If a machine registers with the 'wrong' server, they ought to replicate
between themselves.


--
Best Regards,
Ron Lowe
MS-MVP Windows Networking

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the quick reply.

After some more investigation, I have determined that Windows 2000
Professional suffers the same problem. If NT4 also has this problem, maybe
it is a feature.

The WINS entries are spread across both servers, so something is going very
wrong.

In answer to your questions:
1a) Yes I have remote subnets. 42 of them. They are all connected via
relatively high-speed WAN links.
1b) There are approximately 550 workstations in the network
1c) Most workstations are 2000, so you are correct our WINS traffic is quite
low.
2) Yes the servers replicate with each other. After time the data sorts
itself out, however the initial delay in sorting out the name registrations
does cause problems.

The two servers that host DNS/WINS are relatively powerful and we have not
seen any excessive load. Network, disk, and processor are all within an
acceptable range. Both servers are on the same network (with the majority
of clients.. about 200) connected at gigabit through various switches.

We have about 3 remote WINS servers that all replicate with the primary WINS
server, and the clients are setup in the method you described. We do not
appear to be having any replication problems with WINS itself.

One of my coworkers mentioned finding an article on this problem with NT4
and said that it was to be corrected with a service pack. When (if) we
locate the article I will compare and post on what I can find.

Thank you for your time and information. I will verify our settings based
on your suggestions.

Robert

"Ron Lowe" wrote in message
...
"Robert Isaac" wrote in message
news:T7bSb.31225$P51.11115@clgrps12...
SNIP

I don't know what is causing the problem, and I have seen similar oddities
with NT4. ( statically assigned NT4 SP6a server; Pri and Sec WINS
specified
in Network Control Panel; but IPCONFIG lists them in reverse order. I
never did run a sniff to determine which was lying - IPCONFIG or the
Control
Panel. ) Nonetheless, here's some general suggestions:

1) With WINS, less is more.
By that, I mean that the fewer WINS servers you can manage with, the
better.
You need to look at your network topology to determine how many servers
are
required, where they should be, and how the replication should work.

As a general rule, I'd put one WINS server in each remote location (
connected by a slow WAN link ). Then 2 WINS servers in central office, one
as a 'hub' server for all the others to replicate to,, and one user-facing
in central office. Each workstation points to local WINS as primary, and
the central 'hub' as secondary. Each remote location server push-pull
replicates with only the hub machine.

This way, all machines get fast local registration and name resolution,
and
over time, each outlying subnet WINS server updates the central hub. The
central hub then pushes the merged database back out to all the outlying
WINS servers.

Having the hub machine as secondary provides a degree of fault tollerance,
so that if a local server goes down, user workstations continue to
register
/ query but at a slower speed across the WAN.

So in your situation, do you have remote subnets?
How many clients are you serving?
If you have a single small site, consider whether you really need 2 WINS
servers.
In a win2k network, WINS traffic is usually lowish if DNS is working.

2) Are your WINS servers replication partners with each other?
If a machine registers with the 'wrong' server, they ought to replicate
between themselves.


--
Best Regards,
Ron Lowe
MS-MVP Windows Networking

The reason for the client flip flopping the WIns server is that it tried to
contact the primary at some point and did not recieve a timely response. It
then tried the secondary, got a response and change the order.
Your issue appears to me as a Wins replication problem. If Client A
registers with Wins B, its registration should be replicated and show up in
all replication partners.
Are you getting any event log messages about Wins replication on the Wins
servers?

--

Thanks,
Marc Reynolds
Microsoft Technical Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


"Robert Isaac" wrote in message
news:VEgSb.32394$P51.18741@clgrps12...
Hi Ron,

Thanks for the quick reply.

After some more investigation, I have determined that Windows 2000
Professional suffers the same problem. If NT4 also has this problem,
maybe
it is a feature.

The WINS entries are spread across both servers, so something is going
very
wrong.

In answer to your questions:
1a) Yes I have remote subnets. 42 of them. They are all connected via
relatively high-speed WAN links.
1b) There are approximately 550 workstations in the network
1c) Most workstations are 2000, so you are correct our WINS traffic is
quite
low.
2) Yes the servers replicate with each other. After time the data sorts
itself out, however the initial delay in sorting out the name
registrations
does cause problems.

The two servers that host DNS/WINS are relatively powerful and we have not
seen any excessive load. Network, disk, and processor are all within an
acceptable range. Both servers are on the same network (with the majority
of clients.. about 200) connected at gigabit through various switches.

We have about 3 remote WINS servers that all replicate with the primary
WINS
server, and the clients are setup in the method you described. We do not
appear to be having any replication problems with WINS itself.

One of my coworkers mentioned finding an article on this problem with NT4
and said that it was to be corrected with a service pack. When (if) we
locate the article I will compare and post on what I can find.

Thank you for your time and information. I will verify our settings based
on your suggestions.

Robert

"Ron Lowe" wrote in message
...
"Robert Isaac" wrote in message
news:T7bSb.31225$P51.11115@clgrps12...
SNIP

I don't know what is causing the problem, and I have seen similar
oddities
with NT4. ( statically assigned NT4 SP6a server; Pri and Sec WINS
specified
in Network Control Panel; but IPCONFIG lists them in reverse order. I
never did run a sniff to determine which was lying - IPCONFIG or the
Control
Panel. ) Nonetheless, here's some general suggestions:

1) With WINS, less is more.
By that, I mean that the fewer WINS servers you can manage with, the
better.
You need to look at your network topology to determine how many servers
are
required, where they should be, and how the replication should work.

As a general rule, I'd put one WINS server in each remote location (
connected by a slow WAN link ). Then 2 WINS servers in central office,
one
as a 'hub' server for all the others to replicate to,, and one
user-facing
in central office. Each workstation points to local WINS as primary,
and
the central 'hub' as secondary. Each remote location server push-pull
replicates with only the hub machine.

This way, all machines get fast local registration and name resolution,
and
over time, each outlying subnet WINS server updates the central hub. The
central hub then pushes the merged database back out to all the outlying
WINS servers.

Having the hub machine as secondary provides a degree of fault
tollerance,
so that if a local server goes down, user workstations continue to
register
/ query but at a slower speed across the WAN.

So in your situation, do you have remote subnets?
How many clients are you serving?
If you have a single small site, consider whether you really need 2 WINS
servers.
In a win2k network, WINS traffic is usually lowish if DNS is working.

2) Are your WINS servers replication partners with each other?
If a machine registers with the 'wrong' server, they ought to replicate
between themselves.


--
Best Regards,
Ron Lowe
MS-MVP Windows Networking

Hi Marc,

Here are the errors (Information Notices, not errors) that I am getting.

This one seems to be a standard 'couldn't find what the client is looking
for' error:

Event Type: Information
Event Source: Wins
Event Category: None
Event ID: 4141
Date: 30/01/2004
Time: 8:59:54 AM
User: N/A
Computer: AD2
Description:
WINS pulled records from a WINS while doing Pull replication. The partner's
address and the owner's address whose records were pulled are given in the
data section (second and third DWORD respectively). The number of records
pulled is the fourth DWORD.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00000609 00000000 c0a8632a 00000001




And this one looks like a 'replication occurred':

Event Type: Information
Event Source: Wins
Event Category: None
Event ID: 4141
Date: 30/01/2004
Time: 8:59:54 AM
User: N/A
Computer: xxx
Description:
WINS pulled records from a WINS while doing Pull replication. The partner's
address and the owner's address whose records were pulled are given in the
data section (second and third DWORD respectively). The number of records
pulled is the fourth DWORD.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00000609 00000000 c0a8632a 00000001

The replication is showing up on WINSA after time. But initially some
records appear with WINSA as owner, and some appear with WINSB as owner.
Basically one computer will have half of its records owned by one WINS
server, and the other half owned by another WINS server. Eventually
everything sorts itself out and all the records end up being owned by WINSA.

Robert


"Marc Reynolds [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
The reason for the client flip flopping the WIns server is that it tried
to
contact the primary at some point and did not recieve a timely response.
It
then tried the secondary, got a response and change the order.
Your issue appears to me as a Wins replication problem. If Client A
registers with Wins B, its registration should be replicated and show up
in
all replication partners.
Are you getting any event log messages about Wins replication on the Wins
servers?

--

Thanks,
Marc Reynolds
Microsoft Technical Support

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.


SNIP