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#16
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PC no longer booting
SC Tom
Couple of messages on this issue from yourself and a chap called Paul that I couldn't review because ...."News servers regularly expire articles as they get older to make space available for newer articles" Looking at date and time of both posts how they could be classified as old when they were only posted 2 - 3 hours ago I don't know!. Anyway................... Double checked for speaker. Definitely nothing that I can see or find. I've removed processor chip and heatsink cleaned out dust from fan, heat sink and mobo. cleaned off old thermal paste and renewed. Re-installed but result on start is still the same. Reviewed my notes on actions to date to see if I've missed anything in diagnosis and to see if there is anything else I can look at. ****Interesting**** I said at start that original reported fault was problem with USB KB and mouse not working. I used PS/2 KB and mouse when I started to look at PC. On starting up there had obviously been a problem as I had repair or normal start option waiting me.. I chose normal start, which it (eventually) did and I was able to update and perform multiple restarts before turning off for the night. This is the *****interesting**** bit. What I failed to state when I restarted in the morning ..............I had removed PS/2 KB and mouse and installed USB KB and mouse...............On start up, I immediately got unrecoverable hardware error (0x0124). On restart, no video, nothing! I think whatever the (USB) problem was, the impact of using USB KB/mouse was to take out the mobo. I really can't come up with any other answer. I don't think there is anything else I can do; unless you know better, other than inform my friend his PC is dead. "SC Tom" wrote in message ... "barrowhill" wrote in message ... SC Tom, No POST just blank from the moment it's turned on. No beep code sounds at all but that may be because I can't see/find speaker anywhere in (Packard Bell) case. See all by reply to Bill re additional checks etc. I'm beginning to think that mobo has gone AWOL. Would you agree ??? From the rest of your replies here, I'd be leaning that way, too. If everything has been unplugged/removed, and there still are no beeps, it's probably the mobo, power supply, or a bad connection between the two. Odds are, there isn't an off-board speaker. Most have the speaker built onto the mobo- look for a round black plastic piece about the diameter of a dime. That would be your speaker. -- SC Tom "SC Tom" wrote in message ... "barrowhill" wrote in message ... Hi, Received friends PC last night with a view to fixing for him. (Only) reported fault was no (USB) KB or mouse (?), Mobo is Gigabyte GA-K8NUSL-RG, AMD 64 Dual Core 4600+ processor, 2 x 1 GByte RAM. and dual GCSLISW-RH graphics cards running in SLI mode. O/S is Windows 7 Ultimate Connected PS/2 KB and mouse and on boot presented with DOS window indicating error had occurred and whether I required to repair (via CD) or start windows normally. Opted to start normally (why not) just to see what happened. It got to Windows starting icon and hung for some time and just as I was about to press reset it continued to desktop after completing (earlier) update installs Decided to remain with PS/2 configuration and check for further updates to PC. Eventually completed all updates after a few hours work with multiple restarts and restarted one last time to check all OK and then switched off until this morning. Started up this morning and promptly got unrecoverable hardware error code 0x0124. Pressed restart and on reboot no video - nothing showing on screen at all! That is still position One suspect is Graphics because previously experienced starting delays on another win 7 PC when booting, Turned out that despite win 7 compatibility testing, card wasn't in fact compatible. Similar time lag on this PC. Also, there was an update for the card which, I'm now regretting, I downloaded and installed. Didn't have problems using last night with multiple restarts since installation of update. I don't have a spare PCI express graphics card to try so stuck. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Is there something or anything else I should be looking at/trying. Help much appreciated. Upon restart, did you get your POST screen, or is it just blank from the moment it's turned on? If you get the POST screen, then press F8 repeatedly and see if you can start up in Safe Mode or Safe Mode with Command Prompt. If you can get into Safe Mode, roll back the driver for the video card through Device Manager. If no Safe Mode, but you can get into Safe Mode with Command Prompt, you can attempt to restore your system to an earlier time by typing in %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe (for Windows XP) %systemroot%\system32\rstrui.exe (for Windows 7) and pressing Enter (I know you said the OS is Win7, but this is an XP group :-) ). The normal System Restore GUI will come up, and you can then pick a time before the driver update was installed. If you can't get into either mode, turn the PC off, pull the power cord, open it up, and remove the video card. Plug it back in and turn it on. You'll get a series of beeps, meaning that there is no video card installed. Turn it back off, unplug it, and put the card back in. Turn it on and see if you have video again. If so, roll back the video driver as soon as you are able to navigate through Windows. (Of course, this suggestion is moot if it's an onboard video chip.) -- SC Tom |
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#17
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PC no longer booting
In ,
barrowhill wrote: SC Tom Couple of messages on this issue from yourself and a chap called Paul that I couldn't review because ...."News servers regularly expire articles as they get older to make space available for newer articles" Looking at date and time of both posts how they could be classified as old when they were only posted 2 - 3 hours ago I don't know!. Anyway................... Well Paul's comments were quite excellent. So I'll repost it here below. From: "Paul" Subject: PC no longer booting Date: Monday, May 09, 2011 6:55 AM The computer cases I have here, they like to hide the speaker in the front plastic fascia. If you take the thing all apart, eventually you might be rewarded with a 2" speaker or the like. If you trace where the SPKR connector and two wire cable go, you'll eventually find it. It can't escape :-) Start at the motherboard PANEL header, and work your way back, following the two wire twisted pair. When I get a new computer case, I take special pleasure in disassembling the thing, and removing the bits I don't want. For example, the first thing to go, are the front USB or Firewire ports, the audio connectors and wires. By removing those and saving them for later, I have less cruft hanging down inside the computer. Since my computers are always at desk level, and oriented so I have access to the rear connectors, there is no need for front connectors. I started this practice, after finding wiring errors on some of my older cases, and rather than wasting time catching those errors before they burn or damage something, I just got in the habit of tearing them out. But I always keep the speaker, due to the ability to do "beep tests" if something breaks. Some computers (Dell) have a four LED display on the case, using two color LEDs. And those can give diagnostic codes, indicating a problem. Some retail motherboards (typically Nvidia motherboards resold by other companies), have a two digit POST code right on the motherboard surface. The actual codes aren't of much use, but the ability to see whether the POST display will work at all, helps identify whether the processor is able to read the BIOS or not. If the POST display stays stuck at 0xFF or 0x00, then chances are the processor isn't running for some reason (stuck in reset, no power etc). Any other of the remaining 254 decimal codes, indicates something is going on, but usually there is no reliable documentation of the code values, and even if there is documentation, the codes don't focus on a single fault at all. So they're not really that useful. In all the cases, where a person has posted the value they got off their display, when I looked up the code, no good came of it (the user was none the wiser). Now, a feature I liked, but which is no longer used, was the Winbond audio post device. It was a chip that would play back voice messages, to tell you what was going on. These would be triggered by writing a control byte in the chip, via BIOS code. But unlike the POST display, the events were designed to be a bit more useful. The audio was coupled into the regular Line Out connector, so the "bitchen betty" voice came out of your amplified external computer speakers. Asus put that on their motherboards for several years, and then gave up on it. It probably cost them a dollar or two per motherboard (audio playback chip plus serial EEPROM). There was even a utility, so you could record your own voice for the samples if you wanted (it took 30 to 60 minutes to re-program the serial EEPROM). By comparison, the computer case (internal) speaker is a bit boring, but at least it is common enough, that some useful testing can be done. Paul |
#18
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PC no longer booting
SC Tom,
Definitely no speaker to found ! Removed PC chip and heat sink. Cleaned out all dust and wiped off paste. Fresh coating of thermal paste applied. Put back but on start up same issue. Reviewed notes of actions taken and ***** interesting***** observation As stated at outset, reported problem was non functioning USB KB and mouse. I started with PS/2 mouse. On start-up there had been a problem as I was presented with the option to repair or start normally. I chose to start normally which it (eventually) did. I switched off after performing updates with multiple restarts. No issues during this process and successfully switched off for the night. No here is *****interesting***** bit. Before I started up in the morning, I removed PS/2 KB and mouse and inserted USB KB and mouse. On boot immediate unrecoverable hardware error reported and then on restart - no video, nothing Suspect that the impact of using the USB KB and mouse has now resulted in taking out the motherboard. I can't think of any other explanation as believe tried all options. Would you agree ??. Only option I can see now is to advise my friend that new mobo (or PC) is required. "SC Tom" wrote in message ... "barrowhill" wrote in message ... SC Tom, No POST just blank from the moment it's turned on. No beep code sounds at all but that may be because I can't see/find speaker anywhere in (Packard Bell) case. See all by reply to Bill re additional checks etc. I'm beginning to think that mobo has gone AWOL. Would you agree ??? From the rest of your replies here, I'd be leaning that way, too. If everything has been unplugged/removed, and there still are no beeps, it's probably the mobo, power supply, or a bad connection between the two. Odds are, there isn't an off-board speaker. Most have the speaker built onto the mobo- look for a round black plastic piece about the diameter of a dime. That would be your speaker. -- SC Tom "SC Tom" wrote in message ... "barrowhill" wrote in message ... Hi, Received friends PC last night with a view to fixing for him. (Only) reported fault was no (USB) KB or mouse (?), Mobo is Gigabyte GA-K8NUSL-RG, AMD 64 Dual Core 4600+ processor, 2 x 1 GByte RAM. and dual GCSLISW-RH graphics cards running in SLI mode. O/S is Windows 7 Ultimate Connected PS/2 KB and mouse and on boot presented with DOS window indicating error had occurred and whether I required to repair (via CD) or start windows normally. Opted to start normally (why not) just to see what happened. It got to Windows starting icon and hung for some time and just as I was about to press reset it continued to desktop after completing (earlier) update installs Decided to remain with PS/2 configuration and check for further updates to PC. Eventually completed all updates after a few hours work with multiple restarts and restarted one last time to check all OK and then switched off until this morning. Started up this morning and promptly got unrecoverable hardware error code 0x0124. Pressed restart and on reboot no video - nothing showing on screen at all! That is still position One suspect is Graphics because previously experienced starting delays on another win 7 PC when booting, Turned out that despite win 7 compatibility testing, card wasn't in fact compatible. Similar time lag on this PC. Also, there was an update for the card which, I'm now regretting, I downloaded and installed. Didn't have problems using last night with multiple restarts since installation of update. I don't have a spare PCI express graphics card to try so stuck. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Is there something or anything else I should be looking at/trying. Help much appreciated. Upon restart, did you get your POST screen, or is it just blank from the moment it's turned on? If you get the POST screen, then press F8 repeatedly and see if you can start up in Safe Mode or Safe Mode with Command Prompt. If you can get into Safe Mode, roll back the driver for the video card through Device Manager. If no Safe Mode, but you can get into Safe Mode with Command Prompt, you can attempt to restore your system to an earlier time by typing in %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe (for Windows XP) %systemroot%\system32\rstrui.exe (for Windows 7) and pressing Enter (I know you said the OS is Win7, but this is an XP group :-) ). The normal System Restore GUI will come up, and you can then pick a time before the driver update was installed. If you can't get into either mode, turn the PC off, pull the power cord, open it up, and remove the video card. Plug it back in and turn it on. You'll get a series of beeps, meaning that there is no video card installed. Turn it back off, unplug it, and put the card back in. Turn it on and see if you have video again. If so, roll back the video driver as soon as you are able to navigate through Windows. (Of course, this suggestion is moot if it's an onboard video chip.) -- SC Tom |
#19
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PC no longer booting
SC Tom,
Definitely no speaker to found ! Removed PC chip and heat sink. Cleaned out all dust and wiped off paste. Fresh coating of thermal paste applied. Put back but on start up same issue. Reviewed notes of actions taken and ***** interesting***** observation As stated at outset, reported problem was non functioning USB KB and mouse. I started with PS/2 mouse. On start-up there had been a problem as I was presented with the option to repair or start normally. I chose to start normally which it (eventually) did. I switched off after performing updates with multiple restarts. No issues during this process and successfully switched off for the night. No here is *****interesting***** bit. Before I started up in the morning, I removed PS/2 KB and mouse and inserted USB KB and mouse. On boot immediate unrecoverable hardware error reported and then on restart - no video, nothing Suspect that the impact of using the USB KB and mouse has now resulted in taking out the motherboard. I can't think of any other explanation as believe tried all options. Would you agree ??. Only option I can see now is to advise my friend that new mobo (or PC) is required. "SC Tom" wrote in message ... "barrowhill" wrote in message ... SC Tom, No POST just blank from the moment it's turned on. No beep code sounds at all but that may be because I can't see/find speaker anywhere in (Packard Bell) case. See all by reply to Bill re additional checks etc. I'm beginning to think that mobo has gone AWOL. Would you agree ??? From the rest of your replies here, I'd be leaning that way, too. If everything has been unplugged/removed, and there still are no beeps, it's probably the mobo, power supply, or a bad connection between the two. Odds are, there isn't an off-board speaker. Most have the speaker built onto the mobo- look for a round black plastic piece about the diameter of a dime. That would be your speaker. -- SC Tom "SC Tom" wrote in message ... "barrowhill" wrote in message ... Hi, Received friends PC last night with a view to fixing for him. (Only) reported fault was no (USB) KB or mouse (?), Mobo is Gigabyte GA-K8NUSL-RG, AMD 64 Dual Core 4600+ processor, 2 x 1 GByte RAM. and dual GCSLISW-RH graphics cards running in SLI mode. O/S is Windows 7 Ultimate Connected PS/2 KB and mouse and on boot presented with DOS window indicating error had occurred and whether I required to repair (via CD) or start windows normally. Opted to start normally (why not) just to see what happened. It got to Windows starting icon and hung for some time and just as I was about to press reset it continued to desktop after completing (earlier) update installs Decided to remain with PS/2 configuration and check for further updates to PC. Eventually completed all updates after a few hours work with multiple restarts and restarted one last time to check all OK and then switched off until this morning. Started up this morning and promptly got unrecoverable hardware error code 0x0124. Pressed restart and on reboot no video - nothing showing on screen at all! That is still position One suspect is Graphics because previously experienced starting delays on another win 7 PC when booting, Turned out that despite win 7 compatibility testing, card wasn't in fact compatible. Similar time lag on this PC. Also, there was an update for the card which, I'm now regretting, I downloaded and installed. Didn't have problems using last night with multiple restarts since installation of update. I don't have a spare PCI express graphics card to try so stuck. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Is there something or anything else I should be looking at/trying. Help much appreciated. Upon restart, did you get your POST screen, or is it just blank from the moment it's turned on? If you get the POST screen, then press F8 repeatedly and see if you can start up in Safe Mode or Safe Mode with Command Prompt. If you can get into Safe Mode, roll back the driver for the video card through Device Manager. If no Safe Mode, but you can get into Safe Mode with Command Prompt, you can attempt to restore your system to an earlier time by typing in %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe (for Windows XP) %systemroot%\system32\rstrui.exe (for Windows 7) and pressing Enter (I know you said the OS is Win7, but this is an XP group :-) ). The normal System Restore GUI will come up, and you can then pick a time before the driver update was installed. If you can't get into either mode, turn the PC off, pull the power cord, open it up, and remove the video card. Plug it back in and turn it on. You'll get a series of beeps, meaning that there is no video card installed. Turn it back off, unplug it, and put the card back in. Turn it on and see if you have video again. If so, roll back the video driver as soon as you are able to navigate through Windows. (Of course, this suggestion is moot if it's an onboard video chip.) -- SC Tom |
#20
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PC no longer booting
"Paul" wrote in message ... SC Tom wrote: *** You're correct on that; my old OEM board had the piezo device on it, but my new (to me) M2NPV-VM doesn't. It has the solder points and silkscreen for one, though. I have sound through a USB sound card and no internal speaker at all (with or without a pigtail- I looked), but when I boot up, I get the POST beeps from somewhere inside the PC (no power to the sound system at that time). I'll have to pull the side of the case the next time I reboot to see where it's coming from, but there's no obvious spot. It's a small to mid tower (Compaq SR1124nx) that I've had for years, and it's the only factory thing left. Everything in it has been replaced at one time or another, and I am yet to find a speaker :-) That's why I assumed the beeps were coming from the MB. The computer cases I have here, they like to hide the speaker in the front plastic fascia. If you take the thing all apart, eventually you might be rewarded with a 2" speaker or the like. If you trace where the SPKR connector and two wire cable go, you'll eventually find it. It can't escape :-) Start at the motherboard PANEL header, and work your way back, following the two wire twisted pair. Paul Well, gawrsh, now I REALly feel foolish (hangs head, donkey ears grow). I have no speaker (or wires either- the MB pins are empty), and nothing on the board, either. The beeps I hear on boot up are from my UPS- I use it like a power strip to turn everything on and off. It's to the rear of my PC, and the beeps it emits sound like they're coming from the PC case. sigh -- SC Tom |
#21
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PC no longer booting
SC Tom,
We've all made those mistakes...............Now get your head round this.... Last thought was perhaps PSU is after all faulty. Thinks......Somehow fires up fans and fan lights come on but other wise does nothing. Fortunately have spare so replaced. Note: new PSU tested and voltage measured off board by shorting pins14 (Power Supply On) to Ground (COM). All Good. Install main board molex connectors. Do not connect power to DVD's. Press ON button ----- nothing ??? Old PSU starts fans/lights when ON button pressed (?) . What's happening (?) Remove 20 pin molex, short pin 14 to ground fans start and fan lights come on. Now my understanding is pin 14 (power supply on) is only active (low) when PSU receives motherboard OK signal Why should one PSU 'fire' up when ON is pressed and the other not??. Do I have a faulty motherboard ?? I suspect I have but.......... some rational behind what's happening with PSU's is welcome "SC Tom" wrote in message ... "Paul" wrote in message ... SC Tom wrote: *** You're correct on that; my old OEM board had the piezo device on it, but my new (to me) M2NPV-VM doesn't. It has the solder points and silkscreen for one, though. I have sound through a USB sound card and no internal speaker at all (with or without a pigtail- I looked), but when I boot up, I get the POST beeps from somewhere inside the PC (no power to the sound system at that time). I'll have to pull the side of the case the next time I reboot to see where it's coming from, but there's no obvious spot. It's a small to mid tower (Compaq SR1124nx) that I've had for years, and it's the only factory thing left. Everything in it has been replaced at one time or another, and I am yet to find a speaker :-) That's why I assumed the beeps were coming from the MB. The computer cases I have here, they like to hide the speaker in the front plastic fascia. If you take the thing all apart, eventually you might be rewarded with a 2" speaker or the like. If you trace where the SPKR connector and two wire cable go, you'll eventually find it. It can't escape :-) Start at the motherboard PANEL header, and work your way back, following the two wire twisted pair. Paul Well, gawrsh, now I REALly feel foolish (hangs head, donkey ears grow). I have no speaker (or wires either- the MB pins are empty), and nothing on the board, either. The beeps I hear on boot up are from my UPS- I use it like a power strip to turn everything on and off. It's to the rear of my PC, and the beeps it emits sound like they're coming from the PC case. sigh -- SC Tom |
#22
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PC no longer booting
barrowhill wrote:
SC Tom, We've all made those mistakes...............Now get your head round this.... Last thought was perhaps PSU is after all faulty. Thinks......Somehow fires up fans and fan lights come on but other wise does nothing. Fortunately have spare so replaced. Note: new PSU tested and voltage measured off board by shorting pins14 (Power Supply On) to Ground (COM). All Good. Install main board molex connectors. Do not connect power to DVD's. Press ON button ----- nothing ??? Old PSU starts fans/lights when ON button pressed (?) . What's happening (?) Remove 20 pin molex, short pin 14 to ground fans start and fan lights come on. Now my understanding is pin 14 (power supply on) is only active (low) when PSU receives motherboard OK signal Why should one PSU 'fire' up when ON is pressed and the other not??. Do I have a faulty motherboard ?? I suspect I have but.......... some rational behind what's happening with PSU's is welcome I would start by checking whether you still had data cables connected from the DVD. If you're going to disconnect a drive, it would be better to disconnect both power and data. A data connector can be left connected if an I/O pad is known as "failsafe", but we don't know whether that is the case or not. So when the characteristics of a device are unknown, it is best to disconnect both data and power to it at the same time, just in case. The motherboard has an open collector driver, to pull to ground the PS_ON# signal (pin 14). The power supply end has a pullup, and it is weak and easy for PS_ON# to overcome and pull to ground. A logic low level, is what triggers the power supply into the ON state. The front panel POWER button (soft power), gives a momentary low pulse at logic levels. The front power button doesn't actually gate the flow of power directly. It sends a logic signal to the motherboard. The motherboard "latches" the front panel signal and converts in into a steady level. The motherboard logic has many inputs into that circuit. 1) The Southbridge and SuperI/O have a number of "Wake On" conditions, that they accept and use to turn on the computer when you want to wake it up. For example, if you enable "Wake On LAN" on your system, when a LAN packet arrives, it asserts PME, which is then used to (eventually) turn on PS_ON#. 2) Certain safety features on the motherboard, work in the opposite sense. Modern motherboards (both AMD and Intel) have THERMTRIP. If the processor asserts THERMTRIP during an overheat event, the motherboard logic de-asserts PS_ON# immediately, and that causes the power supply to go off. Some of those safety features are "latching", and you must turn off the main power switch on the back of the computer, before your next attempt to turn on the computer again via the front (soft) power switch. On some older Asus motherboards, the "AGP Warn" circuit did something similar. It prevented power from coming on, when a 3.3V only video card was inserted into a 1.5V only motherboard AGP slot. That would not be a concern on a PCI Express motherboard. When your system refuses to respond, you can see there are a couple kinds of logic inputs, that are presented to the motherboard. There can also be situations where "accidental" things happen. For example, on my old 440BX motherboard, if the IDE connector was installed crooked (only half the pins touching), the resulting electrical stress on the Southbridge would cause the power to come on, on its own, without touching the button on the front of the computer. On some motherboards, if the CMOS battery is flat, and reads zero volts with a multimeter, that can prevent PS_ON# from working. A possible theory is, it happens at the SuperI/O chip, as it can have a connection directly to the CMOS battery. And in that case, perhaps the SuperI/O isn't passing a logic signal from somewhere else on the motherboard, until the battery is replaced. The chip driving PS_ON# can become weak. Or, the power supply end can do a poor job of dealing with the logic level on the PS_ON# signal. The power supply doesn't use a logic chip, but can use a discrete transistor circuit for the job. The system is relatively complicated (and really deserves a better treatment than I can give it). The circuitry of this type, might be referred to as "Supervisory" circuitry. On the motherboard, the +5VSB rail from the power supply, powers the Supervisory circuits. If your power supply has a weak or glitchy +5VSB, then that can cause problems turning on the computer. On an Asus motherboard, they put a green LED on the motherboard wired directly to +5VSB. On such a motherboard, you visually check that LED, to make sure it remains lit as long as the switch on the back of the computer is in the ON position. If that supply rail is overloaded (+5VSB has a weak rating in amperes), the LED can go on and off rapidly, or blink. And that would tell you that between the motherboard and the power supply, something is happening to the ability to maintain a steady 5V on the +5VSB (StandBy) rail. A weak supply can do that, as could a short on +5VSB from say, a USB load or PS/2 load. Paul "SC Tom" wrote in message ... "Paul" wrote in message ... SC Tom wrote: *** You're correct on that; my old OEM board had the piezo device on it, but my new (to me) M2NPV-VM doesn't. It has the solder points and silkscreen for one, though. I have sound through a USB sound card and no internal speaker at all (with or without a pigtail- I looked), but when I boot up, I get the POST beeps from somewhere inside the PC (no power to the sound system at that time). I'll have to pull the side of the case the next time I reboot to see where it's coming from, but there's no obvious spot. It's a small to mid tower (Compaq SR1124nx) that I've had for years, and it's the only factory thing left. Everything in it has been replaced at one time or another, and I am yet to find a speaker :-) That's why I assumed the beeps were coming from the MB. The computer cases I have here, they like to hide the speaker in the front plastic fascia. If you take the thing all apart, eventually you might be rewarded with a 2" speaker or the like. If you trace where the SPKR connector and two wire cable go, you'll eventually find it. It can't escape :-) Start at the motherboard PANEL header, and work your way back, following the two wire twisted pair. Paul Well, gawrsh, now I REALly feel foolish (hangs head, donkey ears grow). I have no speaker (or wires either- the MB pins are empty), and nothing on the board, either. The beeps I hear on boot up are from my UPS- I use it like a power strip to turn everything on and off. It's to the rear of my PC, and the beeps it emits sound like they're coming from the PC case. sigh -- SC Tom |
#23
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PC no longer booting
Paul,
Thanks for this reply. Performed re-test using both PSU's having first checked, off board, both working and all connectors showing correct voltages. Tested both with data and power connectors to 2 x DVD connected, then again with data and power connectors disconnected. Original fitted PSU powers up (well fan and fan lights at least) when ON button pressed in both test cases. Spare PSU doesn't !!! (again in both cases) I can't think of any reason why this is the case as both tested fine off board. I've run out of ideas now in trying to resolve original problem other than coming to conclusion that the moth board is faulty. |
#24
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PC no longer booting
barrowhill wrote:
Paul, Thanks for this reply. Performed re-test using both PSU's having first checked, off board, both working and all connectors showing correct voltages. Tested both with data and power connectors to 2 x DVD connected, then again with data and power connectors disconnected. Original fitted PSU powers up (well fan and fan lights at least) when ON button pressed in both test cases. Spare PSU doesn't !!! (again in both cases) I can't think of any reason why this is the case as both tested fine off board. I've run out of ideas now in trying to resolve original problem other than coming to conclusion that the moth board is faulty. I hesitate to suggest this, but the PS_ON# signal can be activated, while the main connector is connected to the motherboard. Since PS_ON# is open collector, grounding it can turn on the supply and help verify the rest of the motherboard is operational. The problem with doing this, is it defeats safety systems on the motherboard. For example, say your processor heatsink/fan fell of the processor. On a normal computer, that would trigger THERMTRIP (sent from processor to motherboard). The motherboard would respond, by turning off PS_ON#. If you ground PS_ON# (effectively jamming the setting in the ON position), then a THERMTRIP event will not result in the power supply being turned off, and the processor would be "cooked". So using that test case, grounding PS_ON# while main power is connected, can be used to verify the computer actually boots, but it does not solve the problem of why the motherboard logic is not currently driving the signal itself. As you say, it could be a defective motherboard, but you also have to look at the circumstances, and whether there were similar behaviors (difficult to get system to turn on), before this happened. ******* There are various versions of power supply standards, to help you determine pinout on the cabling. While cable colors are relatively standardized, I have at least one extension cable here, that doesn't follow the rules on color. And when I'm using that cable, I have to "count pins" to find the right signal. http://web.archive.org/web/200304240...12V_PS_1_1.pdf (page 27) http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf (page 30) http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf (page 37) Paul |
#25
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PC no longer booting
Paul,
Again thanks for the useful information. I had thought about forcing /PS-ON but decided against doing this for reasons you mention. As you concur, the motherboard could be a defective, and, as you say, one needs to look at the circumstances, and whether there were similar behaviors' (difficult to get system to turn on), before this happened. On this point, there was a problem with the USB KB and mouse (reason why I was looking at PC). I'd got PC working (and updated) by virtue of using PS/2 KB and mouse. As stated earlier, all working fine when switched off. Having started up the following day, not with PS/2 KB and mouse attached but with USB ones I got an immediate unrecoverable hardware error. I believe this is the crux of the problem. I think connecting the USB devices tip the scales on a pre existing problem and has finally zeroes the motherboard. I think all avenues have been exhausted and a new motherboard (or PC) is required. Thanks for your (and others) input on this. Much appreciated. "Paul" wrote in message ... barrowhill wrote: Paul, Thanks for this reply. Performed re-test using both PSU's having first checked, off board, both working and all connectors showing correct voltages. Tested both with data and power connectors to 2 x DVD connected, then again with data and power connectors disconnected. Original fitted PSU powers up (well fan and fan lights at least) when ON button pressed in both test cases. Spare PSU doesn't !!! (again in both cases) I can't think of any reason why this is the case as both tested fine off board. I've run out of ideas now in trying to resolve original problem other than coming to conclusion that the moth board is faulty. I hesitate to suggest this, but the PS_ON# signal can be activated, while the main connector is connected to the motherboard. Since PS_ON# is open collector, grounding it can turn on the supply and help verify the rest of the motherboard is operational. The problem with doing this, is it defeats safety systems on the motherboard. For example, say your processor heatsink/fan fell of the processor. On a normal computer, that would trigger THERMTRIP (sent from processor to motherboard). The motherboard would respond, by turning off PS_ON#. If you ground PS_ON# (effectively jamming the setting in the ON position), then a THERMTRIP event will not result in the power supply being turned off, and the processor would be "cooked". So using that test case, grounding PS_ON# while main power is connected, can be used to verify the computer actually boots, but it does not solve the problem of why the motherboard logic is not currently driving the signal itself. As you say, it could be a defective motherboard, but you also have to look at the circumstances, and whether there were similar behaviors (difficult to get system to turn on), before this happened. ******* There are various versions of power supply standards, to help you determine pinout on the cabling. While cable colors are relatively standardized, I have at least one extension cable here, that doesn't follow the rules on color. And when I'm using that cable, I have to "count pins" to find the right signal. http://web.archive.org/web/200304240...12V_PS_1_1.pdf (page 27) http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf (page 30) http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf (page 37) Paul |
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PC no longer booting
Do you by chance have another USB keyboard and mouse you can connect to the
faulty PC? Or have you tried that keyboard and mouse on a different PC? Maybe it's one of them that's causing the issue, and not necessarily the mobo (although I'm leaning towards a faulty mobo). -- SC Tom "barrowhill" wrote in message ... Paul, Again thanks for the useful information. I had thought about forcing /PS-ON but decided against doing this for reasons you mention. As you concur, the motherboard could be a defective, and, as you say, one needs to look at the circumstances, and whether there were similar behaviors' (difficult to get system to turn on), before this happened. On this point, there was a problem with the USB KB and mouse (reason why I was looking at PC). I'd got PC working (and updated) by virtue of using PS/2 KB and mouse. As stated earlier, all working fine when switched off. Having started up the following day, not with PS/2 KB and mouse attached but with USB ones I got an immediate unrecoverable hardware error. I believe this is the crux of the problem. I think connecting the USB devices tip the scales on a pre existing problem and has finally zeroes the motherboard. I think all avenues have been exhausted and a new motherboard (or PC) is required. Thanks for your (and others) input on this. Much appreciated. "Paul" wrote in message ... barrowhill wrote: Paul, Thanks for this reply. Performed re-test using both PSU's having first checked, off board, both working and all connectors showing correct voltages. Tested both with data and power connectors to 2 x DVD connected, then again with data and power connectors disconnected. Original fitted PSU powers up (well fan and fan lights at least) when ON button pressed in both test cases. Spare PSU doesn't !!! (again in both cases) I can't think of any reason why this is the case as both tested fine off board. I've run out of ideas now in trying to resolve original problem other than coming to conclusion that the moth board is faulty. I hesitate to suggest this, but the PS_ON# signal can be activated, while the main connector is connected to the motherboard. Since PS_ON# is open collector, grounding it can turn on the supply and help verify the rest of the motherboard is operational. The problem with doing this, is it defeats safety systems on the motherboard. For example, say your processor heatsink/fan fell of the processor. On a normal computer, that would trigger THERMTRIP (sent from processor to motherboard). The motherboard would respond, by turning off PS_ON#. If you ground PS_ON# (effectively jamming the setting in the ON position), then a THERMTRIP event will not result in the power supply being turned off, and the processor would be "cooked". So using that test case, grounding PS_ON# while main power is connected, can be used to verify the computer actually boots, but it does not solve the problem of why the motherboard logic is not currently driving the signal itself. As you say, it could be a defective motherboard, but you also have to look at the circumstances, and whether there were similar behaviors (difficult to get system to turn on), before this happened. ******* There are various versions of power supply standards, to help you determine pinout on the cabling. While cable colors are relatively standardized, I have at least one extension cable here, that doesn't follow the rules on color. And when I'm using that cable, I have to "count pins" to find the right signal. http://web.archive.org/web/200304240...12V_PS_1_1.pdf (page 27) http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf (page 30) http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf (page 37) Paul |
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PC no longer booting
SC Tom
USB KB and mouse are from my on PC. Both working fine on my machine "SC Tom" wrote in message ... Do you by chance have another USB keyboard and mouse you can connect to the faulty PC? Or have you tried that keyboard and mouse on a different PC? Maybe it's one of them that's causing the issue, and not necessarily the mobo (although I'm leaning towards a faulty mobo). -- SC Tom |
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