Another idiot dies ........................................

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't know
that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208


--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On 7/11/2017 11:20 PM, Good Guy wrote:

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't know
that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208


--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
While the school never taught her about math, physic, or chemistry it
did teacher that she had high self esteem

--
2017: The year we lean to play the great game of Euchre

On 7/12/2017 9:51 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-07-12 07:41, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/11/2017 11:20 PM, Good Guy wrote:

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't
know that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208



--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
While the school never taught her about math, physic, or chemistry it
did teacher that she had high self esteem


I think you've forgotten that in pubescent humans the brain is being
rebuilt. It's a wonder they are able to put one foot in front of the
other, let alone decide what's safe to do. Fact is, they can reason as
well as adults, but they can't connect their conclusions to their
decisions, so that what Kahnemann calls "System 2 thinking" is very
difficult for them. That linkage isn't complete till the mid-20s for
most people, and never for a few. You know the ones I mean: the
eternally adolescent jerks.

PS: In my classes, self esteem was based on knowing you did a better job
than last time.



Stupid ****ing Cellphones caused another sad and senseless death.
They are one of the most dangerous gadgets on earth, mixed with Cars or
water, and people running into things.
don't blame the poor little girl who was not properly educated by
someone not to take it into the bathroom EVER.

Condolences to her Family.

Rene

Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/11/2017 11:20 PM, Good Guy wrote:

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't
know that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208

While the school never taught her about math, physic, or chemistry it
did teacher that she had high self esteem

The grandmothers comment.

“There was a burn mark on her hand, the hand that would have grabbed the phone.
And that was just very obvious that that’s what had happened,� said the girl’s
grandmother, Donna O’Guinn."

I'd be sending Inspector Columbo. And the coroner.

If I had a loved one passing away, I don't think I'd be in a
state to carry out such an analysis with "such certainty".

There are some missing details from this story. It
didn't happen as described.

*******

https://www.evaluationengineering.co...safety-testing

"Consider your cell phone.

Most of the time it presents no shock hazard to you.

However, when you plug it into the charger and
connect the charger to a wall outlet, you now have
a possible shock hazard.

If the insulation between the charger and your phone were to fail, ---
the primary voltage applied to the charger could be present on
conductive surfaces to which you have access.
"

And that could happen on a two-prong wall adapter.

So how did that happen ? And if it did happen, why didn't the
owner of the electronics notice the symptoms when standing
on "dry land" ? If such a thing happens (insulation failure),
you receive a (non-fatal) shock while handling the goods
on dry land. It would be extremely low odds, for the
insulation to fail at that very instant. It's more likely
the charger would be defective from day one, and showing
symptoms the whole time the owner was using it.

The news article does not describe charger, extension cord,
and phone, all "thrown into the bathtub". The story implies
"reaching for the phone". (Extension cord and charger
sitting on the bathroom floor, but dry.) First, the extensor
reaction causes you to drop the phone (because you can't get your
hand wrapped around the phone, without touching it first
with some fingertips).

I could see this happening, if the individual tries to plug
in the adapter into the extension cord, and happens to touch
one of the plug prongs. That to me is more plausible than
receiving sufficient current flow through the phone chassis
for this to happen.

A logical progression would be, girl brings extension cord,
charger and phone to bathroom. Plugs charger into extension
cord, charger into phone. Phone starts charging. Girl then
enters bath. The odds of a person dragging all that crap
into the bathroom, and leaving it unplugged, then plugging
it all together (while still standing in the bath), that
doesn't seem too likely.

I think the girl can keep her esteem for a few moments longer.
Maybe the coroner or the forensics team can figure it out.
Or Columbo, if he's available this week (depends on whether
his car will start).

Paul

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 7/12/2017 9:51 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-07-12 07:41, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/11/2017 11:20 PM, Good Guy wrote:

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't
know that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208



--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
While the school never taught her about math, physic, or chemistry
it did teacher that she had high self esteem


I think you've forgotten that in pubescent humans the brain is being
rebuilt. It's a wonder they are able to put one foot in front of the
other, let alone decide what's safe to do. Fact is, they can reason
as well as adults, but they can't connect their conclusions to their
decisions, so that what Kahnemann calls "System 2 thinking" is very
difficult for them. That linkage isn't complete till the mid-20s for
most people, and never for a few. You know the ones I mean: the
eternally adolescent jerks.

PS: In my classes, self esteem was based on knowing you did a better
job than last time.



Stupid ****ing Cellphones caused another sad and senseless death.
They are one of the most dangerous gadgets on earth, mixed with Cars
or water, and people running into things.
don't blame the poor little girl who was not properly educated by
someone not to take it into the bathroom EVER.

Condolences to her Family.

I blame the "poor little girl" for lacking basic common sense. When I was
eight years old I knew that water and electricity did not mix.
Just one more idiot out of the gene pool before it got old enough to vote.

On 7/12/2017 11:50 AM, Paul wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/11/2017 11:20 PM, Good Guy wrote:

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't
know that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208

While the school never taught her about math, physic, or chemistry it
did teacher that she had high self esteem

The grandmothers comment.

“There was a burn mark on her hand, the hand that would have grabbed the
phone.
And that was just very obvious that that’s what had happened,� said
the girl’s
grandmother, Donna O’Guinn."

I'd be sending Inspector Columbo. And the coroner.

If I had a loved one passing away, I don't think I'd be in a
state to carry out such an analysis with "such certainty".

There are some missing details from this story. It
didn't happen as described.

*******

https://www.evaluationengineering.co...safety-testing


"Consider your cell phone.

Most of the time it presents no shock hazard to you.

However, when you plug it into the charger and
connect the charger to a wall outlet, you now have
a possible shock hazard.

If the insulation between the charger and your phone were to
fail, ---
the primary voltage applied to the charger could be present on
conductive surfaces to which you have access.
"

And that could happen on a two-prong wall adapter.

So how did that happen ? And if it did happen, why didn't the
owner of the electronics notice the symptoms when standing
on "dry land" ? If such a thing happens (insulation failure),
you receive a (non-fatal) shock while handling the goods
on dry land. It would be extremely low odds, for the
insulation to fail at that very instant. It's more likely
the charger would be defective from day one, and showing
symptoms the whole time the owner was using it.

The news article does not describe charger, extension cord,
and phone, all "thrown into the bathtub". The story implies
"reaching for the phone". (Extension cord and charger
sitting on the bathroom floor, but dry.) First, the extensor
reaction causes you to drop the phone (because you can't get your
hand wrapped around the phone, without touching it first
with some fingertips).

I could see this happening, if the individual tries to plug
in the adapter into the extension cord, and happens to touch
one of the plug prongs. That to me is more plausible than
receiving sufficient current flow through the phone chassis
for this to happen.

A logical progression would be, girl brings extension cord,
charger and phone to bathroom. Plugs charger into extension
cord, charger into phone. Phone starts charging. Girl then
enters bath. The odds of a person dragging all that crap
into the bathroom, and leaving it unplugged, then plugging
it all together (while still standing in the bath), that
doesn't seem too likely.

I think the girl can keep her esteem for a few moments longer.
Maybe the coroner or the forensics team can figure it out.
Or Columbo, if he's available this week (depends on whether
his car will start).

Paul

I wonder if there was a GFCI in the bathroom? or was power supplied via
extension cord from another room.
Surely a properly operating GFCI would have prevented this if used!

Rene

"Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message
news
I wonder if there was a GFCI in the bathroom? or was power supplied via
extension cord from another room.
Surely a properly operating GFCI would have prevented this if used!

How common is it to have a more than one GFCI (aka RCD - residual current
detector) in a house? Our house (in the UK - maybe our regulations are
different) has a *single* RCD set to the regulation 30 mA trip current
between the electricity company fuse and the "fuse box" (which actually uses
MSBs - miniature circuit breakers).

The RCD trips the whole house if there is an earth leakage fault and the
MCBs each provide over-current protection for one circuit - eg upstairs
power sockets, downstairs sockets, lighting, cooker, boiler (furnace) etc.


A separate RCD on each mains socket would be nice, so a faulty appliance
only kills the power on that socket, leaving the rest of the house still
working. But it would be expensive.

We saw a demonstration of the problem with one RCD for the whole house the
other day: in the middle of a thunderstorm there must have been a lightning
strike on a power line somewhere in the area. Our RCD tripped so the whole
house went dark. It was easy to turn it back on again, but it's frustrating
to think that we'd have lost everything in our freezers if we hadn't been at
home to turn the RCD back on again.

At least nothing was damaged by the lightning this time - on a previous
occasion it killed the power supply in my PC. As luck would have it, I had a
spare PSU on the shelf and I replaced it and had the PC booted up again
within 10 minutes (I know it was within 10 mins because I have a weather
station that logs its results every 10 minutes, and I didn't lose any
readings). It does help that PC repairs is what I do for a living :-)



What are US regulations about power sockets in a bathroom? In the UK, the
only power socket that is allowed is a shaver socket, and that has a
split-phase transformer so although there is 240 V or 120 V (switchable)
between the two prongs of the socket, each prong is at 120/55 V with respect
to earth, making it a bit safer.

I will admit that when my wife cuts my hair with the clippers, we run an
extension cable into the bathroom from elsewhere, but we take precautions:
no water in the bath, my feet well away from the (earthed) taps. If my wife
ever uses her phone or Kindle in the bath (to browse the web or to read)
it's always on battery - she charges it before use.

Tragic that this girl had to learn the hard way that electricity and water
don't mix. Having once had a 240 V mains shock, by touching the soldered
pins on the on/off switch of something that I'd forgotten was still plugged
in, so across either side of a finger, I don't want to repeat the experience
ever again. The muscle reflex bashed my hand into the sharp metal case of
the appliance (a tape recorder, IIRC) and that cut me quite badly - my arms
tingled for an hour or so but it took a lot longer for the cuts to heal :-)

Rene Lamontagne wrote:

I wonder if there was a GFCI in the bathroom? or was power supplied via
extension cord from another room.
Surely a properly operating GFCI would have prevented this if used!

Rene

Only new houses would be "up to code".

My grandmothers house had "wire on insulator" type wiring.
and nobody forced her to rewire it. Just looking at some of
that wire, exposed in the basement, used to scare the crap
out of me. But, the house didn't burn down, and when she
passed and the house was sold, the new owner bulldozed it.
Whatever house is there now, would have a GFCI or equivalent.

Paul

KenW wrote:
In the US, the laws say a gfi socket anywhere near a water faucet.
Places I wired and where I lived, usually one in the bath and by the
kitchen sink. Of course, that is the law, but what one may find
varies. I can't see spending the money on a gfi if not within reach of
water supply. Extension cord to a tub is really stupid.

What that means is, the house is so old, the bathroom doesn't have
an accessory electrical outlet. The house I was born in, was like that.
The main bathroom had a light fixture and switch, but it had no
accessory outlet for a shaver. If you had an electric shaver, it
would need to be the battery kind.

So it's easy to understand, in such a situation, how an extension cord
would be needed.

Paul

On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 10:18:41 -0500, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 7/12/2017 9:51 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-07-12 07:41, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/11/2017 11:20 PM, Good Guy wrote:

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't
know that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208



--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
While the school never taught her about math, physic, or chemistry it
did teacher that she had high self esteem


I think you've forgotten that in pubescent humans the brain is being
rebuilt. It's a wonder they are able to put one foot in front of the
other, let alone decide what's safe to do. Fact is, they can reason as
well as adults, but they can't connect their conclusions to their
decisions, so that what Kahnemann calls "System 2 thinking" is very
difficult for them. That linkage isn't complete till the mid-20s for
most people, and never for a few. You know the ones I mean: the
eternally adolescent jerks.

PS: In my classes, self esteem was based on knowing you did a better job
than last time.



Stupid ****ing Cellphones caused another sad and senseless death.

Yes, they are the Opium of the People!

"Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message news

On 7/12/2017 9:51 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-07-12 07:41, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/11/2017 11:20 PM, Good Guy wrote:

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't
know that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208


--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
While the school never taught her about math, physic, or chemistry it
did teacher that she had high self esteem


I think you've forgotten that in pubescent humans the brain is being
rebuilt. It's a wonder they are able to put one foot in front of the
other, let alone decide what's safe to do. Fact is, they can reason as
well as adults, but they can't connect their conclusions to their
decisions, so that what Kahnemann calls "System 2 thinking" is very
difficult for them. That linkage isn't complete till the mid-20s for most
people, and never for a few. You know the ones I mean: the eternally
adolescent jerks.

PS: In my classes, self esteem was based on knowing you did a better job
than last time.



Stupid ****ing Cellphones caused another sad and senseless death.
They are one of the most dangerous gadgets on earth, mixed with Cars or
water, and people running into things.
don't blame the poor little girl who was not properly educated by someone
not to take it into the bathroom EVER.

Condolences to her Family.

Rene

I believe that most cell phone chargers supply under 6 volts to the
cellphone itself, and they are usually plugged into a 120 volt outlet in the
USA.
The cell phone will not kill you and leave a burn mark on your hand just
from it being submerged in water by itself.
Most outlets in bathrooms in the USA are GFCI. Older homes, were not.
Something is not correct with the cause of her death.

Sounds like a National Enquirer type story or just something that the FAKE
NEWS networks jumped on!!!

More 'covfefe'.


--
Buffalo

On 12/07/2017 16:18, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 7/12/2017 9:51 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-07-12 07:41, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/11/2017 11:20 PM, Good Guy wrote:

Not a single day passes without hearing about some idiot who didn't
know that water & electricity should never be mixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charging Phone Kills 14-Year-Old Girl in Bathtub
http://www.newsweek.com/teenager-madison-coe-killed-after-using-cell-phone-bath-635208



--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
While the school never taught her about math, physic, or chemistry it
did teacher that she had high self esteem


I think you've forgotten that in pubescent humans the brain is being
rebuilt. It's a wonder they are able to put one foot in front of the
other, let alone decide what's safe to do. Fact is, they can reason as
well as adults, but they can't connect their conclusions to their
decisions, so that what Kahnemann calls "System 2 thinking" is very
difficult for them. That linkage isn't complete till the mid-20s for
most people, and never for a few. You know the ones I mean: the
eternally adolescent jerks.

PS: In my classes, self esteem was based on knowing you did a better
job than last time.



Stupid ****ing Cellphones caused another sad and senseless death.
They are one of the most dangerous gadgets on earth, mixed with Cars or
water, and people running into things.
don't blame the poor little girl who was not properly educated by
someone not to take it into the bathroom EVER.

Condolences to her Family.

Rene




If anyone has any doubts about how dangerous mobile phones can be, then
please watch the video in this news story that appeared today on our
local newspaper web site.

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/ne...-see-1-8052608

jim

On 7/12/2017 7:19 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-07-12 15:51, NY wrote:
"Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message
news
I wonder if there was a GFCI in the bathroom? or was power supplied via
extension cord from another room.
Surely a properly operating GFCI would have prevented this if used!

How common is it to have a more than one GFCI (aka RCD - residual current
detector) in a house? Our house (in the UK - maybe our regulations are
different) has a *single* RCD set to the regulation 30 mA trip current
between the electricity company fuse and the "fuse box" (which
actually uses
MSBs - miniature circuit breakers).
[...]

Code in Ontario requires one in every bathroom.


In Manitoba 1 in bathroom and 1 in kitchen.
My 107 year old house which I sold last year had no outlets in the 2
bathrooms (I lived there for 58 Years). and I maintained strict orders
"NO electrical appliances of ANY kind allowed in the bathrooms.
And naturally the house was wired with Knob and Tube which always
worried me for fear of fire, What with wire insulation over 100 years
old, I rewired everything I could reach from the basement and covered
most of the first floor but not the second.
I was really careful not to overload circuits and ran all high amperage
vacuums from the stove outlets. that was another good use for my Kill A
Watt and digital clampon Amprobe.

Rene

"Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message news

On 7/12/2017 7:19 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-07-12 15:51, NY wrote:
"Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message
news I wonder if there was a GFCI in the bathroom? or was power supplied
via
extension cord from another room.
Surely a properly operating GFCI would have prevented this if used!

How common is it to have a more than one GFCI (aka RCD - residual
current
detector) in a house? Our house (in the UK - maybe our regulations are
different) has a *single* RCD set to the regulation 30 mA trip current
between the electricity company fuse and the "fuse box" (which actually
uses
MSBs - miniature circuit breakers).
[...]

Code in Ontario requires one in every bathroom.


In Manitoba 1 in bathroom and 1 in kitchen.
My 107 year old house which I sold last year had no outlets in the 2
bathrooms (I lived there for 58 Years). and I maintained strict orders "NO
electrical appliances of ANY kind allowed in the bathrooms.
And naturally the house was wired with Knob and Tube which always worried
me for fear of fire, What with wire insulation over 100 years old, I
rewired everything I could reach from the basement and covered most of the
first floor but not the second.
I was really careful not to overload circuits and ran all high amperage
vacuums from the stove outlets. that was another good use for my Kill A
Watt and digital clampon Amprobe.

Rene

A 14 ga bare wire in knob and tube wiring could handle a least as much
amperage as an insulated 12 ga wire normally used in romex or conduit.
--
Buffalo

That is called knob and tubing wiring and it is now illegal in the us if
found it must be removed and replaced with romex in a residential house.
with GFCI'S and ARFCI'S aka arc fault circuit interrupters.


--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Paul" wrote in message
news
Rene Lamontagne wrote:

I wonder if there was a GFCI in the bathroom? or was power supplied via
extension cord from another room.
Surely a properly operating GFCI would have prevented this if used!

Rene

Only new houses would be "up to code".

My grandmothers house had "wire on insulator" type wiring.
and nobody forced her to rewire it. Just looking at some of
that wire, exposed in the basement, used to scare the crap
out of me. But, the house didn't burn down, and when she
passed and the house was sold, the new owner bulldozed it.
Whatever house is there now, would have a GFCI or equivalent.

Paul