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Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV



 
 
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  #46  
Old December 3rd 14, 05:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
lew
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Posts: 282
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 2014-12-03, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 18:54:41 -0500, flatfish+++
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 17:38:54 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 15:19:56 -0500, flatfish+++
wrote:

Bit-Rot is a big thing with CD these days. People go back to that CD
they bought in the 1980s and find it doesn't work anymore.
Even worse for DVD.

If bit rot is possible with pressed CD/DVDs, it's news to me. Plenty of
other things can go wrong, especially if proper handling and storage aren't
observed, but I believe bit rot is reserved for the writeable variety of
optical discs.

At least with vinyl or tape you can work around it.
With a CD if it can't read the TOC, you are pretty much dead.

Don't let the kids handle it and don't store it in direct sunlight or in the
car where temps hit 140+ and you should be fine. In the life of a pressed CD
or DVD, the 1980's weren't that long ago.


Might be a bad use of terminology on my part but basically what I am
saying is CD in apparently good, non scratched condition, fails to
play.
You are DOA.
Nothing you can do.


Has that actually ever happened, or is it something you read about? I'd be
surprised to learn that it's a real concern. Again, I think we're talking
about pressed CDs and DVDs, not the stuff that someone recorded at home.


It has to me. Lost 2 original CDs when left in the car cd player;
unplayable. The "experts" on usenet claimed that was impossible as
a cd was impervious to heat; never explained why the CDs became
unplayable.

That's when I decided that one should just dup the original cd to be
used in the car's cd player.


At least with vinyl or tape you can recover.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Both of those media types have their own
issues.


Had 10 year old music reel tapes that was unusable. Don't think that
the home users "carefully store" their tapes or vinyls, especially the
recycled vinyls use in the '70s due to the oil "crisis" created by opec
to raise the "petro dollars".
Ads
  #47  
Old December 3rd 14, 06:23 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
JEDIDIAH
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Posts: 178
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 2014-12-03, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 2014-12-03, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Char Jackson wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 15:19:56 -0500, flatfish+++
wrote:

Bit-Rot is a big thing with CD these days. People go back to that CD
they bought in the 1980s and find it doesn't work anymore.
Even worse for DVD.

If bit rot is possible with pressed CD/DVDs, it's news to me. Plenty of
other things can go wrong, especially if proper handling and storage aren't
observed, but I believe bit rot is reserved for the writeable variety of
optical discs.

At least with vinyl or tape you can work around it.
With a CD if it can't read the TOC, you are pretty much dead.

Don't let the kids handle it and don't store it in direct sunlight or in the
car where temps hit 140+ and you should be fine. In the life of a pressed CD
or DVD, the 1980's weren't that long ago.

http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4.html

Among the manufacturers that have done testing, there is consensus that,
under recommended storage conditions, CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs
should have a life expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more; CD-RW,
DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD-RAM discs should have a life expectancy of 25
years or more. Little information is available for CD-ROM and DVD-ROM
discs (including audio and video), resulting in an increased level of
uncertainty for their life expectancy. Expectations vary from 20 to 100
years for these discs.


Apparently it varies by manufacturer and apparently some were very bad.

Yet another reason to rip everything and back up stuff as much as you can
and do as much as you can to avoid bit rot on your ripped copies.


I have this USB stick I use in my car; it often sits for hours in the hot
sun. So now I sometimes get "Bad Media" or sound glitches, when I know the
file was initially good.


I dunno. I am more inclined to blame the head unit for glitches than the media.

For every technology you can name, there are people that have their own horror stories.

--

Nevermind the pirates. Sony needs to worry about it's own back catalog. |||
/ | \
  #48  
Old December 3rd 14, 06:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:47:54 -0500, Slimer wrote:

Is it even worth restoring a broken tape to working order? I can't
imagine the sound quality on that medium to be worth the effort.


Silly me, within the context of tape I was thinking of high end reel to
reel, since that was my last exposure to audio tape. Way back in the day, I
have experience with splicing 8-track tapes and the small 3"-3.5" reel
tapes, and I spliced a VHS tape a time or two.

In general, you're right. Sound quality usually leaves much to be desired
when it comes to tape, and cassette is arguably the worst of it. The tracks
are too narrow and the speed is too slow.

In fact, according to a link I just read, it clearly states that
cassettes sound not only worse than vinyl but 8-tracks as well. To me,
that's absolute garbage


Within the cassette world, commercially recorded tapes were usually the
absolute worst with regards to sound quality, so I used to buy record albums
and record them onto higher grade cassette tapes. For a dozen years or so, I
used dbx noise reduction which virtually eliminated tape hiss and other
system noise, but of course it's still cassette tape, so you're still
dealing with the rest of that format's limitations. Plus, there were no
automotive cassette decks that could decode dbx, so those tapes had to stay
in the house.

  #49  
Old December 3rd 14, 06:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 11:23:45 -0500, flatfish+++
wrote:

8 tracks are clearly the worst. They are also ticking time bombs
because as the lubricant in the tape dries out, they implode.


8-tracks used a dry lubricant.

As a music format, I always felt that 8-tracks sounded better than
cassettes, but a lot of years have gone by and I can't go back and do any
blind tests.

  #50  
Old December 3rd 14, 06:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
flatfish+++[_4_]
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Posts: 29
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 11:32:13 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 11:23:45 -0500, flatfish+++
wrote:

8 tracks are clearly the worst. They are also ticking time bombs
because as the lubricant in the tape dries out, they implode.


8-tracks used a dry lubricant.

As a music format, I always felt that 8-tracks sounded better than
cassettes, but a lot of years have gone by and I can't go back and do any
blind tests.


Yes.
Graphite in fact. It collects dirt and goos up the capstan causing
speed issues.

Cassettes had superior sound for many reasons most of which had to do
with the head stack on 8 track players being out of alignment due to
it moving up and down each time a new track was selected. That
clunking sound was not good for head alignment. Cassette machines
(not the auto reversible kind) were much gentler on the heads and the
tape and shell design was far superior.

--
flatfish+++

Linux: The Operating System That Put The City Of Munich Out Of
Business.
Before Switching To Linux Read This:
http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux...current.htm l
  #51  
Old December 3rd 14, 07:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Slimer
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Posts: 300
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 03/12/2014 10:49 AM, JEDIDIAH wrote:
On 2014-12-02, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
Slimer wrote:

On 02/12/2014 3:19 PM, flatfish+++ wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:30:03 -0500, Slimer wrote:

On 02/12/2014 11:08 AM, JEDIDIAH wrote:
On 2014-12-02, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 01/12/2014 23:49, flatfish+++ wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2014 23:47:16 +0000, Brian Gregory wrote:

On 01/12/2014 01:37, JEDIDIAH wrote:
On 2014-11-29, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 28/11/2014 16:17, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
And will likely do a better job of implementing both than
GNU/Linux.

http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/11/27/1347217/windows-10-to-feature-native-support-for-mkv-and-flac?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed




VLC will play both formats in Windows XP, Vista, 7 and 8. So,
BFD.


More than that - install any one of several widely available free
codec packs and any player will play them.


...and those will likely just be the same collection of free
software that powers VLC.


Well maybe, but I find more bugs in VLC than I do if I just install
Combined Community Codec Pack and play in Media Player Classic Home
Cinema.

VLC tends to be buggy but mPlayer is even worse.
The latest version of VLC has been working fine for me though.
Under Windows 8.1 of course.


The only problem I can remember with the current VLC 2.1.5 was that I
found a video file where seeking back and forth in it totally failed
taking me to somewhere totally different from where I wanted. Media
Player Classic Home Cinema played it perfectly.




Not so long ago I remember many versions of VLC on Windows couldn't
even play an audio CD without crashing. It was like the developers
weren't

Sounds like a reversion driven by the fact that it's not 1998
anymore.

1998 is about the last time I directly played a CD.

CDs are still the least expensive way to get high quality sound. M4A
from iTunes and MP3 from 7digital don't cut it for everyone.


That's disputable. Thumbdrives are cheap and plentiful. Meanwhile, CDs
are a single use medium. The smallest available thumb drives are cheap enough
to treat as disposable and can be used over and over again.


Thumbdrives allow you to store a crapload of MP3 and M4A files, but CDs
contain AIFF files which have an excellent, uncompressed quality. We're
comparing apples to oranges here.

If you've got a fetish for optical media, even DVD makes more sense as it
has more capacity. That's the last optical media I bothered with (about 10 years
ago) before I switched completely to thumbdrives and the like.


Once again, apples to oranges.

Although anyone snooty enough to turn his nose up at any of the CD alternatives
that have arisen in the last 20 years isn't going to be dickering around with a PC.


MP3 and M4A files are not a CD alternative, they are a compressed and
lossy version of the album you would get on a CD in excellent quality.
To a lot of people, the convenience of having lossy files IMMEDIATELY
versus going out and buying a CD makes a sense obsolete. However, many
of us truly enjoy the music we're paying for and therefore want to get
it in the best quality possible with the option of later transferring it
to a lossy codec for convenience.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, Wikipedia & Hope for Paws Supporter
  #52  
Old December 3rd 14, 07:19 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Slimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 300
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 03/12/2014 11:47 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
JEDIDIAH wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On 2014-12-03, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Char Jackson wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 15:19:56 -0500, flatfish+++
wrote:

Bit-Rot is a big thing with CD these days. People go back to that CD
they bought in the 1980s and find it doesn't work anymore.
Even worse for DVD.

If bit rot is possible with pressed CD/DVDs, it's news to me. Plenty of
other things can go wrong, especially if proper handling and storage aren't
observed, but I believe bit rot is reserved for the writeable variety of
optical discs.

At least with vinyl or tape you can work around it.
With a CD if it can't read the TOC, you are pretty much dead.

Don't let the kids handle it and don't store it in direct sunlight or in the
car where temps hit 140+ and you should be fine. In the life of a pressed CD
or DVD, the 1980's weren't that long ago.

http://www.clir.org/pubs/reports/pub121/sec4.html

Among the manufacturers that have done testing, there is consensus that,
under recommended storage conditions, CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs
should have a life expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more; CD-RW,
DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD-RAM discs should have a life expectancy of 25
years or more. Little information is available for CD-ROM and DVD-ROM
discs (including audio and video), resulting in an increased level of
uncertainty for their life expectancy. Expectations vary from 20 to 100
years for these discs.


Apparently it varies by manufacturer and apparently some were very bad.

Yet another reason to rip everything and back up stuff as much as you can
and do as much as you can to avoid bit rot on your ripped copies.


I have this USB stick I use in my car; it often sits for hours in the hot
sun. So now I sometimes get "Bad Media" or sound glitches, when I know the
file was initially good.


THAT is bit rot, not a CD becoming useless.

--
Slimer
OpenMedia, Wikipedia & Hope for Paws Supporter
  #53  
Old December 3rd 14, 08:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Slimer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 300
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 03/12/2014 12:32 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 3 Dec 2014 11:23:45 -0500, flatfish+++
wrote:

8 tracks are clearly the worst. They are also ticking time bombs
because as the lubricant in the tape dries out, they implode.


8-tracks used a dry lubricant.

As a music format, I always felt that 8-tracks sounded better than
cassettes, but a lot of years have gone by and I can't go back and do any
blind tests.


Professional audio people tend to say that 8-tracks are better than
cassettes as far as quality is concerned so I'm tempted to agree with
them even though I've never heard or even held one in my hands.

--
Slimera
OpenMedia, Wikipedia & Hope for Paws Supporter
  #54  
Old December 3rd 14, 08:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Brian Gregory
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Posts: 648
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 03/12/2014 18:15, Slimer wrote:
...
Thumbdrives allow you to store a crapload of MP3 and M4A files, but CDs
contain AIFF files which have an excellent, uncompressed quality. We're
comparing apples to oranges here.


Pardon?
CDs contain raw uncompressed PCM, as do AIFF files but there are no AIFF
headers or tail ends on a CD.

Thumb drives can also contain files of raw PCM, or say FLAC which is a
bit smaller but has the same quality. Or you can compress using your
favourite audio codec at whatever bit-rate it takes to sound good to you.

Basically thumb drives are flexible and can hold telephone quality audio
files up to beyond CD quality.


...
MP3 and M4A files are not a CD alternative, they are a compressed and
lossy version of the album you would get on a CD in excellent quality.
To a lot of people, the convenience of having lossy files IMMEDIATELY
versus going out and buying a CD makes a sense obsolete. However, many
of us truly enjoy the music we're paying for and therefore want to get
it in the best quality possible with the option of later transferring it
to a lossy codec for convenience.


I haven't been disappointed with the quality of a bought MP3 for many
years and I'm sure I'm not that unusual though I do admit that my
hearing isn't perfect and my playback equipment isn't at all high end
either.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
  #55  
Old December 3rd 14, 08:55 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Brian Gregory
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 648
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 03/12/2014 10:52, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
...
http://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/

GNU ddrescue is a data recovery tool. It copies data from one file or
block device (hard disc, cdrom, etc) to another, trying to rescue the
good parts first in case of read errors.

Ddrescuelog is a tool that manipulates ddrescue logfiles, shows logfile
contents, converts logfiles to/from other formats, compares logfiles,
tests rescue status, and can delete a logfile if the rescue is done.
Ddrescuelog operations can be restricted to one or several parts of the
logfile if the domain setting options are used.

The basic operation of ddrescue is fully automatic. That is, you don't
have to wait for an error, stop the program, read the log, restart it
from a new position, etc.

No guarantees, of course.


Won't help you recover from an optical disc if the drive says "No Disc
present" will it, which in my experience can even be the first sign of
trouble.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
  #56  
Old December 3rd 14, 09:03 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Brian Gregory
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 648
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 03/12/2014 03:30, Char Jackson wrote:
Might be a bad use of terminology on my part but basically what I am
saying is CD in apparently good, non scratched condition, fails to
play.
You are DOA.
Nothing you can do.


Has that actually ever happened, or is it something you read about? I'd be
surprised to learn that it's a real concern. Again, I think we're talking
about pressed CDs and DVDs, not the stuff that someone recorded at home.


Yes. I bought a set of six audio CDs from Amazon. I couldn't get one of
the set to play at all, had to send them back to be replaced. Another
set arrived with a different disc unplayable. Sent back for a refund.
Bought a set in a local shop and finally got a usable set.


At least with vinyl or tape you can recover.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Both of those media types have their own
issues.



--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.
  #57  
Old December 3rd 14, 09:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 20:03:35 +0000, Brian Gregory
wrote:

On 03/12/2014 03:30, Char Jackson wrote:

Has that actually ever happened, or is it something you read about? I'd be
surprised to learn that it's a real concern. Again, I think we're talking
about pressed CDs and DVDs, not the stuff that someone recorded at home.


Yes. I bought a set of six audio CDs from Amazon. I couldn't get one of
the set to play at all, had to send them back to be replaced. Another
set arrived with a different disc unplayable. Sent back for a refund.
Bought a set in a local shop and finally got a usable set.


Was the playback hardware a factor? Were the CDs issued by a major label?
Were they pressed or recorded?

My niece bought a movie soundtrack CD a few years ago and I was surprised to
see that it wasn't pressed; it had clearly started its life as a writeable
blank. Fortunately, it played just fine in her home and car.


  #58  
Old December 3rd 14, 09:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
chrisv
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Posts: 649
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

Char Jackson wrote:

My niece bought a movie soundtrack CD a few years ago and I was surprised to
see that it wasn't pressed; it had clearly started its life as a writeable
blank. Fortunately, it played just fine in her home and car.


I suppose that for very small production runs, that would be a more
economical method of production.

--
"one would hope (OSS) does look like the work of amateurs since they
are indeed amateurs most of the time." - "True Linux advocate"
Hadron Quark
  #59  
Old December 3rd 14, 10:15 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
JEDIDIAH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 2014-12-03, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 03/12/2014 18:15, Slimer wrote:
...
Thumbdrives allow you to store a crapload of MP3 and M4A files, but CDs
contain AIFF files which have an excellent, uncompressed quality. We're
comparing apples to oranges here.


You can store anything you want on computer media.

The real issue will be whether or not your target device is smart
enough to read that data off of whatever media you have selected.

3rd party hardware device support and the network effect problem is
the real issue here.


Pardon?
CDs contain raw uncompressed PCM, as do AIFF files but there are no AIFF
headers or tail ends on a CD.


[deletia]

--

Nevermind the pirates. Sony needs to worry about it's own back catalog. |||
/ | \
  #60  
Old December 3rd 14, 10:17 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-8
JEDIDIAH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 178
Default Windows 10 to feature native support for FLAC and MKV

On 2014-12-03, chrisv wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:

My niece bought a movie soundtrack CD a few years ago and I was surprised to
see that it wasn't pressed; it had clearly started its life as a writeable
blank. Fortunately, it played just fine in her home and car.


I suppose that for very small production runs, that would be a more
economical method of production.


Amazon sells a number of works on a "print on demand" basis.

--

Nevermind the pirates. Sony needs to worry about it's own back catalog. |||
/ | \
 




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