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#16
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
In article ,
Roger Mills wrote: On 03/05/2017 23:30, Roy Tremblay wrote: On Wed, 03 May 2017 21:48:28 +0100, Roger Mills actually wrote: Have a look at jhead.exe thanks. I installed jhead.exe from http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/ usage: https://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/jhead/usage Looks like a linux transplant so it will take some getting used to. Maybe. I'm not a Linux user, but I've so far managed to make it do what I wanted to do without too much difficultly. Not really sure what this thing can do for you that ExifTool can't... ExifTool can manipulate most image file formats BTW, like PNG, TIFF and most RAWs in addition to JPEG... And there is a GUI available for Windows. Links to it are posted elsewhere in this thread. -- teleportation kills |
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#17
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On Thu, 04 May 2017 12:21:01 +0200,
android actually wrote: ExifTool can manipulate most image file formats BTW, like PNG, TIFF and most RAWs in addition to JPEG... And there is a GUI available for Windows. Links to it are posted elsewhere in this thread. Installed jhead and exiftool command line tools. Installed Exifer & Geosetter GUIs. Am testing. Takes time. Thanks |
#18
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On Wed, 3 May 2017 18:22:27 -0700,
Savageduck actually wrote: Your basic, all access EXIF editing tool is Exiftool. Jhead and exiftool.exe were very complex so I stopped testing for now as I am on Windows so a user interface is expected. All I want is for all the EXIF fields to show up on some sort of form where there is a value for each that can be changed. Exifer is easy to insert exif from another file and easy to fix thumbnails after cropping but Exifer only seems to easily edit simple things like the date but not the camera or GPS data. Geosetter crashes a lot but seems to be the only suggested program with a GUI that allows GPS location to be set. None of the suggested GUI based programs seem to allow editing of the camera, firmware, and other information yet. As a matter of curiosity, what EXIF fields do you wish to edit, and to what purpose? Thumbnail, date, time, location, altitude, camera, firmware version, For example, if you post a picture on the web that you cropped, if you're not familiar with the GPS or thumbnail problem, you end up posting not only the exact location but also the entire picture even though you thought you cropped it. Then what photo editing software are you using? None. Irfanview. For cropping only. Irfanview wipes out EXIF easily but doesn't allow judicious changes. ...and have you considered the possible existence of any of several invisible digital watermarks such as those from Digimarc, or Signum SureSign? Pictures are mine so watermarks shouldn't be there unless the camera puts them there which could be the case (how would I know?). |
#19
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On Wed, 3 May 2017 18:25:53 -0000 (UTC),
Joe Makowiec actually wrote: Geosetter installs exiftool for its own use, and will check for the latest version. Jhead and exiftool command line utilities are probably the long term solution but they turned out to be too complex for me when I tried them out. I'm sure I can get used to the complexity over time but after using jhead.exe and exiftool.exe I now see why they invented the GUIs. Of all the graphical suggestions a combination of Exifer and Geosetter got me about 2/3 of the way toward the goal of controlling EXIF information for photos to be uploaded to the internet. It's not a good solution to the simple problem but it worked mostly. First I used Irfanview to crop the photo & remove all EXIF data. Then I used Exifer to export another photo's EXIF data including thumbnail image size date GPS & camera information. If I could just edit that exported binary file I would have been done because I would then just import that edited file. But these GUIs don't seem to work that way because it would be too easy I guess. :- Then I used Exifer to import the exported EXIF data and then to readjust the thumbnail and exif image size so that they matched the cropped photo. Exifer also allowed me to easily set the date and time. But I had to go back to Geosetter to set the GPS location and altitude. And neither seemed to set the camera type and firmware yet including information about the focal length and flash which need to match the photo .. That gave me 2/3 of the solution needed. What is really needed is so simple that it must exist. You output the EXIF to a file and then you edit that file with Notepad and then you input that edited EXIF data and you are done after adjusting the thumbnail and piture size to match your cropped photo. Does a simple export-edit-import solution like that exist for Windows? ironyOr is that just too easy?/irony :-() |
#20
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
"Roy Tremblay" wrote
| Exifer is easy to insert exif from another file and easy to fix thumbnails | after cropping but Exifer only seems to easily edit simple things like the | date but not the camera or GPS data. | I wonder if you'll find anything better. What you want is something that will display all header fields, let you edit any, then rebuild the header and reinsert it. That's not a terribly complex task, but there are two problems: 1) Since there's no reason for anyone to want to replace something like camera model or shutter speed data, there's no reason to provide such a function. 2) Rebuilding the header is a lot more work than editing. It's easy to replace dates because the number of bytes doesn't change, so it doesn't require rebuilding the entire file header. It only requires editing specific bytes. So you're looking for something that no one needs and which is a pain in the neck to carry out. | For example, if you post a picture on the web that you cropped, if you're | not familiar with the GPS or thumbnail problem, you end up posting not only | the exact location but also the entire picture even though you thought you | cropped it. | If it were me I'd strip all data, saving the image first to BMP or TIF. (You should never work on JPGs, anyway. Every edit loses image data.) Then if you want to add tags use IPTC. EXIF is mainly intended for technical image data. IPTC is designed to store general information, like location, date, description, etc. Since IPTC is used by journalists, and the structure is simple, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of simple program available for adding the comments. |
#21
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
dale wrote:
On 5/3/17 8:25 PM, Paul wrote: an expert can detect as being "fake". I'd like an app that removes EXIF from jpeg files I'm trying to use open graph protocol and they mentioned, somewhere ... , that EXIF might be a problem http://ogp.me/ and besides one time,, in a reply not a post, in which I can't quite remember what I did I can't get a jpeg to show up on a post in facebook for instance, from the link meta property="og:image" content="http://example.com/ogp.jpg" / meta property="og:image:secure_url" content="https://secure.example.com/ogp.jpg" / meta property="og:image:type" content="image/jpeg" / meta property="og:image:width" content="400" / meta property="og:image:height" content="300" / the debugger https://developers.facebook.com/tools/debug/sharing tells me my image is either too small or too big, but the same image is "inferred" from my blog searching tells me there might be problems with my connection, yet my blog is a subdirectory off my main directory where the index.html file I am working with is in Get yourself a hex editor. On Windows, you can try HxD for example. The purpose of getting such a tool, is for "visibility", so you can see how the image formats work. https://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/ ******* On disk here, I have rdjpgcom.c. This would be part of the independent JPEG library. Instead of 4CC codes, it uses 0xFF and then the Marker value. In a sample file here, I see FFD8 FFE0, the D8 is Start Of Image, the E0 is Application Specific Marker. /* * JPEG markers consist of one or more 0xFF bytes, followed by a marker * code byte (which is not an FF). Here are the marker codes of interest * in this program. (See jdmarker.c for a more complete list.) */ #define M_SOF0 0xC0 /* Start Of Frame N */ #define M_SOF1 0xC1 /* N indicates which compression process */ #define M_SOF2 0xC2 /* Only SOF0-SOF2 are now in common use */ #define M_SOF3 0xC3 #define M_SOF5 0xC5 /* NB: codes C4 and CC are NOT SOF markers */ #define M_SOF6 0xC6 #define M_SOF7 0xC7 #define M_SOF9 0xC9 #define M_SOF10 0xCA #define M_SOF11 0xCB #define M_SOF13 0xCD #define M_SOF14 0xCE #define M_SOF15 0xCF #define M_SOI 0xD8 /* Start Of Image (beginning of datastream) */ #define M_EOI 0xD9 /* End Of Image (end of datastream) */ #define M_SOS 0xDA /* Start Of Scan (begins compressed data) */ #define M_APP0 0xE0 /* Application-specific marker, type N */ #define M_APP12 0xEC /* (we don't bother to list all 16 APPn's) */ #define M_COM 0xFE /* COMment */ ******* FFD8 FFE0 "JFIF" FFE1 "Exif" So it almost looks like JPG packetizes data, and other informations are stuffed in, willy nilly, with an extension mechanism (APPn). In particular, XMP (not in my sample), can now extend past a max length 64K JPG segment, as a result of messing about by outfits like Google. They decided to add another image to the image, a "depth map". Just as examples of how a venerable format can be made unreadable by modern software engineers. I'd hoped, when I saw rdjpgcom.c in my disk search, that it was going to be able to dump the segments and lengths, but it doesn't even do that much. Suffice to say, the Exif is not the only supplier of size information. JPG existed before Exif or XMP, and survived quite nicely without it. So if you wanted a comprehensive tool that could make sense of any JPG file (without having to read code or format specifications), forget it. ******* As for your notion of "too big", there's no such thing. Images can be resampled to make them fit in a presentation. Exactly sized bitmaps don't have to be used for everything. The video card has a very nice hardware scaler, which is lightning fast. I can't imagine a software standard in 2017, that doesn't have some sort of resize-on-the-fly for such a situation. Maybe your "presentation" size is bigger than the frame defined to hold it ? If so, it should still present itself, even if portions are cropped. We've been able to do that for, oh, 30 years or so (PostScript imaging model). So what you need to do, is research where these messages are coming from, and what they might actually mean. The error messages might not be based on fact, for example. It's like the bloody OCR I've used in the past, that says "the image must be between 200DPI and 400DPI", and I keep seeing that message over and over again. And I have to bodge the source, to suit the idiots. It takes me half the day to get the source to fit within the limit. You mean they couldn't take a crack at bodging it themselves ? Grrr. ******* Utility writing, is one of the lowest forms of software development. The "smart people" write the kernel or the compilers. That leaves the "bumpkins" for writing utilities. That's how my software organization at work was arranged. I developed this model, after needing to do some data recovery, and the utility writer had made a useless application for the purpose. I had to fix it, before I could do emergency data recovery. I've had a low opinion of utility writers every since. There's nothing like fixing a program at source, when you're under time pressure, and you're not a CS grad. First you fix the program, then you get to do data recovery. I got that same feeling when downloading XMP-Toolkit-SDK-CC201412.zip. The library parts built fine, in no time at all. But DumpFile was not properly anchored in CMake, and it took me a week to hand-hack a make file for it myself (because this was my first CMake and I don't know how to fix stuff like that). Then, when it was finished (yes, it compiled and linked properly), the output was "pure crap". Now, why do I have such a low opinion of software, and the "developer hierarchy" where the bumpkin writes the user-facing utility :-) A week of effort, wasted. Paul |
#22
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On Thu, 4 May 2017 08:40:33 -0400,
Mayayana actually wrote: I wonder if you'll find anything better. You must be correct because this is the right ng to ask. So you're looking for something that no one needs and which is a pain in the neck to carry out. The modified metta data is intended to casually indicate that the edited photo should appear as if it was not edited except for size and as if it was taken out of a certain camera at a certain location at a certain date & time. What you want is something that will display all header fields, let you edit any, then rebuild the header and reinsert it. Some fields are probably binary like the thumbnail. What would be nice is you output EXIF to csv. You edit the csv. Then you import that edited csv into a JPEG. The only thing left would be the binary things like the thumbnail and calculated things like the x:y dimensions which can be a push button calculation inside a GUI. Is anything else binary in EXIF metta data but the thumbnail? | For example, if you post a picture on the web that you cropped, if you're | not familiar with the GPS or thumbnail problem, you end up posting not only | the exact location but also the entire picture even though you thought you | cropped it. | If it were me I'd strip all data, saving the image first to BMP or TIF. (You should never work on JPGs, anyway. Every edit loses image data.) I was cropping with Irfanview and saving without EXIF. If I save to BMP or TIF or GIF that accomplishes the same task so that is ok with me since the quality of the cropped picture is not a big issue for uploads to the web. The issue is to give realistic metta data without having zero metta data. Then if you want to add tags use IPTC. I don't know the difference between the use on web sites of IPTC metta data versis EXIF metta data. I see the buttons for IPTC in Irfanview and in Exiftool and Geosetter but I currently leave them empty. If IPTC is the way to set time date and location then I am good with that I think if that is realistically what a camera would be settings. The photo is supposed to casually appear as if it was taken out of a certain camera at a certain location at a certain date & time so even the aspect ratio has to be controlled a little bit to be realistic. EXIF is mainly intended for technical image data. IPTC is designed to store general information, like location, date, description, etc. Since IPTC is used by journalists, and the structure is simple, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of simple program available for adding the comments. If the photo casually appears to be unedited and if it casually appears to be taken with a certain camera at a certain date at a certain location & time then I can use IPTC but I think EXIF is the metta data most people casually expect out of a camera. |
#23
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
Roy Tremblay wrote:
On Wed, 3 May 2017 18:25:53 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec actually wrote: Geosetter installs exiftool for its own use, and will check for the latest version. Jhead and exiftool command line utilities are probably the long term solution but they turned out to be too complex for me when I tried them out. I'm sure I can get used to the complexity over time but after using jhead.exe and exiftool.exe I now see why they invented the GUIs. Of all the graphical suggestions a combination of Exifer and Geosetter got me about 2/3 of the way toward the goal of controlling EXIF information for photos to be uploaded to the internet. It's not a good solution to the simple problem but it worked mostly. First I used Irfanview to crop the photo & remove all EXIF data. Then I used Exifer to export another photo's EXIF data including thumbnail image size date GPS & camera information. If I could just edit that exported binary file I would have been done because I would then just import that edited file. But these GUIs don't seem to work that way because it would be too easy I guess. :- Then I used Exifer to import the exported EXIF data and then to readjust the thumbnail and exif image size so that they matched the cropped photo. Exifer also allowed me to easily set the date and time. But I had to go back to Geosetter to set the GPS location and altitude. And neither seemed to set the camera type and firmware yet including information about the focal length and flash which need to match the photo . That gave me 2/3 of the solution needed. What is really needed is so simple that it must exist. You output the EXIF to a file and then you edit that file with Notepad and then you input that edited EXIF data and you are done after adjusting the thumbnail and piture size to match your cropped photo. Does a simple export-edit-import solution like that exist for Windows? ironyOr is that just too easy?/irony :-() If you don't like the GPS info, why not just remove it ? What purpose does forging incorrect GPS serve ? Do you win a prize for causing some idiot to drive off the road, trying to find your picture location ? :-) "Yes, I shot this picture in the middle of the Mississippi river, while in my car." I tested GIMP here, and on a resave, unticking "EXIF" causes the decorative stuff to be removed ("NIKON camera"), but still leave Exif Width, Height, bitdepth or whatever. Just the basics. Surely uploading a file in that state, is not deceiving anyone, and the information injected by GIMP lines up with the actual picture geometry. What more could you want ? Why would marking the camera as "Kodak Point And Shoot" instead of "Nikon", be helping (or fooling) anyone ? Nobody believes your "Kodak Point And Shoot", shot a picture with low amplitude sensor noise. The reason the function you seek doesn't exist, is nobody thinks like you :-) If your mission is "privacy", surely the normal "excess information removal" functions are sufficient ? That's all I seek when I upload stuff. I don't mind if Exif says the width is 1024 and the height is 768. Paul |
#24
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On 2017-05-04 10:16:29 +0000, android said:
In article , Roger Mills wrote: On 03/05/2017 23:30, Roy Tremblay wrote: On Wed, 03 May 2017 21:48:28 +0100, Roger Mills actually wrote: Have a look at jhead.exe thanks. I installed jhead.exe from http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/jhead/ usage: https://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/jhead/usage Looks like a linux transplant so it will take some getting used to. Maybe. I'm not a Linux user, but I've so far managed to make it do what I wanted to do without too much difficultly. Not really sure what this thing can do for you that ExifTool can't... Agreed. ExifTool can manipulate most image file formats BTW, like PNG, TIFF and most RAWs in addition to JPEG... And there is a GUI available for Windows. Links to it is posted elsewhere in this thread. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#25
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On 5/4/17 PDT 6:23 AM, Roy Tremblay wrote:
If the photo casually appears to be unedited and if it casually appears to be taken with a certain camera at a certain date at a certain location & time then I can use IPTC but I think EXIF is the metta data most people casually expect out of a camera. Crikey. Rather than falsifying the photo, why not stip all EXIF data? Then lie in the text if you must. -- Coach: "Are you just ignorant, or merely apathetic?" Player: "Coach, I don't know, and I don't care." |
#26
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
"Roy Tremblay" wrote
Here's one of the clearest explanations of EXIF that I'm aware of. It provides some idea of how the header format works: https://www.media.mit.edu/pia/Resear...view/exif.html | The modified metta data is intended to casually indicate that the edited | photo should appear as if it was not edited except for size and as if it | was taken out of a certain camera at a certain location at a certain date & | time. | I think I'm missing part of the story. It sounds like you need EXIF data in order to upload photos. I've never used a photo upload/hosting service, so I don't understand why that's relevant. | What would be nice is you output EXIF to csv. | You edit the csv. | Then you import that edited csv into a JPEG. | Yes. But again, someone has to design all that and hardly anyone actually wants that functionality. I once wrote my own utility to add IPTC data, but I found that I just didn't use it. I keep photos organized in folders, and I still recognize most of my relatives, so I don't need a note telling me who's in the photo. | The only thing left would be the binary things like the thumbnail and | calculated things like the x:y dimensions which can be a push button | calculation inside a GUI. | | Is anything else binary in EXIF metta data but the thumbnail? | I guess that depends on what you mean by binary. See the link above. Typical file header data design will include various fields, with byte length markers and field size markers, so that code can navigate the header. The thumbnail, if it's there, can be one of 3 formats. All are "binary". There's also a data location that tells you which format is being used. So it's not just a binary data blob that you need to be concerned with. If you look at the link above you'll see that some values are strings, while others are numeric of various kinds. Of the strings, most are single-byte ANSI format, but Microsoft cooked up their own tags that are unicode. If by non-binary you mean readable text, then only the ANSI strings are non-binary. But then each of those tags has a length marker. So you can't just change "Canon" to "Panasonic" willy nilly. Length markers will need to be changed and that change may affect pointers elsewhere in the header. (A pointer being a value or tag that holds the numeric offset into the file of another value.) Otherwise parsing software will expect a 5-character camera name (Canon) and will then end up trying to parse the next tag from the bytes "onic". From there the whole thing is likely to fail. One of the Exif tags is actually a pointer to a whole other group known as SubExif tags. If that pointer is not accurate all SubExif tags will be unfindable. That's why I said it's easier to change dates, because they're fixed-length strings. But even that's tricky. JPG headers are a mess, created by too many cooks in the kitchen, with little that's really official. If you look at a JPG in a hex editor you may see dates, but you may see them in 2 or 3 places. See IView: DateTime. DateTime Original. DateTime Digitized. They're stored in different places. So just to change the date you need to know all that, then edit the bytes for each date. But it's only that easy because you're not changing the string length of the data fields in the case of dates, so you can leave the header structure undisturbed. And it's only that easy if you don't also have date strings in something like an IPTC section elsewhere in the header. So, long story short, to do what you want someone has to parse all header data and then completely rebuild a new header, calculating internal pointers and tag length markers accordingly. You can't just string the values together and pack them back into the file. It's a complex, interconnected structure. | I was cropping with Irfanview and saving without EXIF. | | If I save to BMP or TIF or GIF that accomplishes the same task so that is | ok with me since the quality of the cropped picture is not a big issue for | uploads to the web. I was talking about saving to non-JPG to prevent damage. If you only crop and drop out EXIF, then upload, there's no need to convert to a non -lossy format. If you then add back Exif data that should be feasible to do in a non-lossy manner, as it has no direct connection to the image itself. | I don't know the difference between the use on web sites of IPTC metta data | versis EXIF metta data. I see the buttons for IPTC in Irfanview and in | Exiftool and Geosetter but I currently leave them empty. | | If IPTC is the way to set time date and location then I am good with that I | think if that is realistically what a camera would be settings. | I think IPTC was created by journalists. They use it to add copyright, description, etc to photos for publication. So it's a good format for adding info about the subject of the photo. But I have no idea why or for what purpose you need tags on your uploaded photos. IPTC is also not as widely supported as EXIF. | If the photo casually appears to be unedited and if it casually appears to | be taken with a certain camera at a certain date at a certain location & | time then I can use IPTC but I think EXIF is the metta data most people | casually expect out of a camera. Yes, probably. Though I have very few photos with any data. I always convert them to non-lossy to work on them, anyway. I regard all the header tags as little more than debris. So that gets back to why you need any tags in the first place. I doubt that most people look at them or even know about them. |
#27
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On Thu, 4 May 2017 07:07:45 -0700,
John McWilliams actually wrote: Rather than falsifying the photo, why not stip all EXIF data? Then lie in the text if you must. Stripping the EXIF is too crudely obvious. The upload had to be plausable. The EXIF metta data "accidentally" left inside the picture makes it casually plausable that the metta data indicated the camera the location, the time and the date. The elevation was critical in this situation. That the thumbnail and x:y dimensions and focal length match the cropped image is all part of the casual plausability of the upload. The proggies suggested by you experts provided 2/3 of the solution which is good enough for now. I don't think there is any more to learn about solutions unless you know of a Windows solution which allows edits of all the EXIF metta data? Thanks. |
#28
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On Thu, 04 May 2017 09:32:09 -0400,
Paul actually wrote: What purpose does forging incorrect GPS serve ? Plausability. You don't have the need. I did. But I'm not asking here if the need is valid. I'm just asking if the software exists. Otherwise I would ask some other group than windows and photos. The suggested software proggies worked. For 2/3 of the job anyways. And that was enough to get the job done. Thanks. |
#29
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On 2017-05-04 13:23:08 +0000, Roy Tremblay said:
On Thu, 4 May 2017 08:40:33 -0400, Mayayana actually wrote: I wonder if you'll find anything better. You must be correct because this is the right ng to ask. There is familiarity to the character of your posts, and I have a strong suspicion that given your various demands, that you live somewhere in the Santa Cruz mountains above San Jose. With that suspicion I don't have much hope for this thread ending tidily. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#30
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JPEG EXIF replacement on windows at home
On 2017-05-04 12:07:16 +0000, Roy Tremblay said:
On Wed, 3 May 2017 18:22:27 -0700, Savageduck actually wrote: Your basic, all access EXIF editing tool is Exiftool. Jhead and exiftool.exe were very complex so I stopped testing for now as I am on Windows so a user interface is expected. All I want is for all the EXIF fields to show up on some sort of form where there is a value for each that can be changed. Exifer is easy to insert exif from another file and easy to fix thumbnails after cropping but Exifer only seems to easily edit simple things like the date but not the camera or GPS data. Geosetter crashes a lot but seems to be the only suggested program with a GUI that allows GPS location to be set. Lightroom None of the suggested GUI based programs seem to allow editing of the camera, firmware, and other information yet. As a matter of curiosity, what EXIF fields do you wish to edit, and to what purpose? Thumbnail, date, time, location, altitude, camera, firmware version, Hmmm... Why camera, and firmware version? For example, if you post a picture on the web that you cropped, if you're not familiar with the GPS or thumbnail problem, you end up posting not only the exact location but also the entire picture even though you thought you cropped it. First, if you end up posting what amounts to the entire image, as if uncropped, then there is an issue with either your methodology, or your editing software. Stripping location data should be the simplest of "save as" options. Then what photo editing software are you using? None. Irfanview. For cropping only. Irfanview wipes out EXIF easily but doesn't allow judicious changes. I think I see your problem. Most good photo editing software has the ability to make sensible EXIF edits, including an option to remove location information only. ...and have you considered the possible existence of any of several invisible digital watermarks such as those from Digimarc, or Signum SureSign? Pictures are mine so watermarks shouldn't be there unless the camera puts them there which could be the case (how would I know?). If they are yours, and you don't subscribe to Digimarc (which I doubt), they are not going to be watermarked. -- Regards, Savageduck |
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