Bluetooth Mouse lag - Sometimes

ghyrpejsekier wrote:
On 5/28/2018 6:52 PM, Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote

How about disabling the built-in one and using a nano receiver ?
That will at least allow placing the antenna on the side where you
use the mouse.

If I have to do that it defeats the whole point in my opinion. I may
as well use a mouse with a USB receiver. Those work well. The whole
point was not to need USB ports and just have the bluetooth mouse
itself. Nothing needed for USB at all.

My problem as well. Two of my devices (laptop and tablet/keyboard) have
only one USB port. The Bluetooth mouse saves me having to use a dongle
or unplugging the mouse receiver when I need the port. Further the mouse
I use has a 2 device capability so I just push a button on the mouse to
change devices.

Strange combination for a laptop: Having Bluetooth - i.e. somewhat new
-, but only one USB port.

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

That must be why my multi-hundred MB map Wi-Fi downloads on my phones/
tablets increase in speed by an order of magnitude when I disable
Bluetooth! It's all due to non-existing interference.

just because it happens to you does not mean it's a widespread issue.

On May 28, 2018, ghyrpejsekier wrote
(in article ):

On 5/28/2018 6:52 PM, Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote

How about disabling the built-in one and using a nano receiver ?
That will at least allow placing the antenna on the side where you
use the mouse.

If I have to do that it defeats the whole point in my opinion. I may
as well use a mouse with a USB receiver. Those work well. The whole
point was not to need USB ports and just have the bluetooth mouse
itself. Nothing needed for USB at all.

My problem as well. Two of my devices (laptop and tablet/keyboard) have
only one USB port. The Bluetooth mouse saves me having to use a dongle
or unplugging the mouse receiver when I need the port. Further the mouse
I use has a 2 device capability so I just push a button on the mouse to
change devices.

It’s not that sleep it goes into when not being used. I’m actively using
it and suddenly it becomes lethargic for a few seconds and then returns to
normal. So as you move the pointer across the screen, it responds, bug it’s
sluggish. If I wait for two or three seconds it returns to normal on its own.
It’s annoying more than anything else.

If I use the computer for a solid 10 hours straight, I’ll see them happen
every so often. I’ll have to see if I can time the length between these and
see if that yields a clue.

--
Peter Kozlov

In article
l-september.org, Peter
Kozlov wrote:

It¹s not that sleep it goes into when not being used. I¹m actively using
it and suddenly it becomes lethargic for a few seconds and then returns to
normal. So as you move the pointer across the screen, it responds, bug it¹s
sluggish. If I wait for two or three seconds it returns to normal on its own.
It¹s annoying more than anything else.

does it do that with more than one computer?

On May 29, 2018, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 28 May 2018 18:52:41 -0700, Peter Kozlov
wrote:

On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Jason wrote:
In article
l-
september.org, gn says...
Any words of wisdom on this?
I have seen the same behavior. In my case it is caused by
activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the disk is attached
but idle there is no interference. But Windows cannot
leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the
light on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse
operation to get "choppy" for a few seconds.
Spatially separating the USB3 side of the machine from the Bluetooth
side of the machine, may be enough to stop the stuttering.

The nanoreceiver for Bluetooth can be put on a short piece of USB
extension cable, to improve the ability to position it so it is closer
to the mouse.

USB3 emissions have a broad peak at 2.5GHz and nulls at 0Hz and 5GHz.
The most impacted computer signals are Wifi and Bluetooth at 2.4GHz.

In the past, there was no sign of an emissions problem with
USB2. Where the data bit rate and edge rate of the signals
is quite different than USB3.

Paul

This is the built in Bluetooth on a Lenovo Thinkpad.

How about disabling the built-in one and using a nano receiver ?
That will at least allow placing the antenna on the side where you use the
mouse.

Paul

If I have to do that it defeats the whole point in my opinion. I may as well
use a mouse with a USB receiver. Those work well. The whole point was not to
need USB ports and just have the bluetooth mouse itself. Nothing needed for
USB at all.

I hear ya. The point of me buying a Bluetooth mouse (the Microsoft one
with a smooth scrolling surface) was to empty up a USB port being used
by USB receiver. The USB receivers seem never to be affected by
interference at all and Bluetooth - unless you're using a good mouse -
is constantly affected. Is it possible your mouse is just pure ****e?

Anything is possible. It’s a Lenovo mouse and a Lenovo laptop. I’d think
the two work well together, no? According to Lenovo’s own software my
drivers are all up to date. I can always ask Lenovo, though I am thinking
this just might be a bluetooth thing. How many in here actually use Bluetooth
mice?

--
Peter Kozlov

nospam wrote:
In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

That must be why my multi-hundred MB map Wi-Fi downloads on my phones/
tablets increase in speed by an order of magnitude when I disable
Bluetooth! It's all due to non-existing interference.

just because it happens to you does not mean it's a widespread issue.

Ah, nospam's (in)famous 'It must be you!' logical fallacy!

Just because most people don't even realize it's happening, doesn't
mean it doesn't happen quite a lot.

Just because it doesn't happen to you (read: you don't realize it
happening), doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

As to it happening to 'me': It happens on 5 of 5 devices, 3 different
brands, 2 major ones, 1 somewhat less major.

And yes, *I* notice it, because I know it can and does happen and
hence I check-for-cause when I encounter a suspect situation.

Bottom line: I/we take proven facts over nospam's meaningless opinions
any day.

QED.

EOD.

On May 29, 2018, nospam wrote
(in ) :

In article
l-september.org, Peter
Kozlov wrote:

It¹s not that sleep it goes into when not being used. I¹m actively using
it and suddenly it becomes lethargic for a few seconds and then returns to
normal. So as you move the pointer across the screen, it responds, bug it¹s
sluggish. If I wait for two or three seconds it returns to normal on its
own.
It¹s annoying more than anything else.

does it do that with more than one computer?

It’s a Lenovo ThinkPad T460 with a Lenovo Bluetooth mouse. Bought at the
same time on the same order shipped at the same time. I’ve only ever used
these two together. That’s my Windows PC. I have a MacBook, but that has an
Apple Bluetooth mouse which doesn’t exhibit this behavior at all. I have
not tried switching.

--
Peter Kozlov

On Tue, 29 May 2018 08:53:03 -0700, Peter Kozlov
wrote:

On May 29, 2018, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 28 May 2018 18:52:41 -0700, Peter Kozlov
wrote:

On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Jason wrote:
In article
l-
september.org, gn says...
Any words of wisdom on this?
I have seen the same behavior. In my case it is caused by
activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the disk is attached
but idle there is no interference. But Windows cannot
leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the
light on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse
operation to get "choppy" for a few seconds.
Spatially separating the USB3 side of the machine from the Bluetooth
side of the machine, may be enough to stop the stuttering.

The nanoreceiver for Bluetooth can be put on a short piece of USB
extension cable, to improve the ability to position it so it is closer
to the mouse.

USB3 emissions have a broad peak at 2.5GHz and nulls at 0Hz and 5GHz.
The most impacted computer signals are Wifi and Bluetooth at 2.4GHz.

In the past, there was no sign of an emissions problem with
USB2. Where the data bit rate and edge rate of the signals
is quite different than USB3.

Paul

This is the built in Bluetooth on a Lenovo Thinkpad.

How about disabling the built-in one and using a nano receiver ?
That will at least allow placing the antenna on the side where you use the
mouse.

Paul

If I have to do that it defeats the whole point in my opinion. I may as well
use a mouse with a USB receiver. Those work well. The whole point was not to
need USB ports and just have the bluetooth mouse itself. Nothing needed for
USB at all.

I hear ya. The point of me buying a Bluetooth mouse (the Microsoft one
with a smooth scrolling surface) was to empty up a USB port being used
by USB receiver. The USB receivers seem never to be affected by
interference at all and Bluetooth - unless you're using a good mouse -
is constantly affected. Is it possible your mouse is just pure ****e?

Anything is possible. It’s a Lenovo mouse and a Lenovo laptop. I’d think
the two work well together, no? According to Lenovo’s own software my
drivers are all up to date. I can always ask Lenovo, though I am thinking
this just might be a bluetooth thing. How many in here actually use Bluetooth
mice?

I do, and the one problem I had was alleviated by updating the driver
with Driver Reviver (which is a lot more effective at finding the
right driver than most manufacturer software).

In fact, here is a web thread discussing the issue with a slow
Bluetooth mouse. It looks like a driver update helped one whereas
changing the power savings to "performance" instead of "balanced"
helped another. If no other updated driver is available, I'd suggest
power savings for sure.

On Tue, 29 May 2018 08:53:03 -0700, Peter Kozlov
wrote:

On May 29, 2018, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 28 May 2018 18:52:41 -0700, Peter Kozlov
wrote:

On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Jason wrote:
In article
l-
september.org, gn says...
Any words of wisdom on this?
I have seen the same behavior. In my case it is caused by
activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the disk is attached
but idle there is no interference. But Windows cannot
leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the
light on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse
operation to get "choppy" for a few seconds.
Spatially separating the USB3 side of the machine from the Bluetooth
side of the machine, may be enough to stop the stuttering.

The nanoreceiver for Bluetooth can be put on a short piece of USB
extension cable, to improve the ability to position it so it is closer
to the mouse.

USB3 emissions have a broad peak at 2.5GHz and nulls at 0Hz and 5GHz.
The most impacted computer signals are Wifi and Bluetooth at 2.4GHz.

In the past, there was no sign of an emissions problem with
USB2. Where the data bit rate and edge rate of the signals
is quite different than USB3.

Paul

This is the built in Bluetooth on a Lenovo Thinkpad.

How about disabling the built-in one and using a nano receiver ?
That will at least allow placing the antenna on the side where you use the
mouse.

Paul

If I have to do that it defeats the whole point in my opinion. I may as well
use a mouse with a USB receiver. Those work well. The whole point was not to
need USB ports and just have the bluetooth mouse itself. Nothing needed for
USB at all.

I hear ya. The point of me buying a Bluetooth mouse (the Microsoft one
with a smooth scrolling surface) was to empty up a USB port being used
by USB receiver. The USB receivers seem never to be affected by
interference at all and Bluetooth - unless you're using a good mouse -
is constantly affected. Is it possible your mouse is just pure ****e?

Anything is possible. It’s a Lenovo mouse and a Lenovo laptop. I’d think
the two work well together, no? According to Lenovo’s own software my
drivers are all up to date. I can always ask Lenovo, though I am thinking
this just might be a bluetooth thing. How many in here actually use Bluetooth
mice?

Forgot to paste the url:
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/Bluetooth-mouse-slow-when-downloading-WiFi-data-on-Yoga/td-p/936691/page/4

In article
l-september.org, Peter
Kozlov wrote:

It1s not that sleep it goes into when not being used. I1m actively using
it and suddenly it becomes lethargic for a few seconds and then returns to
normal. So as you move the pointer across the screen, it responds, bug
it1s
sluggish. If I wait for two or three seconds it returns to normal on its
own.
It1s annoying more than anything else.

does it do that with more than one computer?

It¹s a Lenovo ThinkPad T460 with a Lenovo Bluetooth mouse. Bought at the
same time on the same order shipped at the same time. I¹ve only ever used
these two together. That¹s my Windows PC. I have a MacBook, but that has an
Apple Bluetooth mouse which doesn¹t exhibit this behavior at all.

according to some others in this thread, you are supposed to have
interference no matter what you do.

I have
not tried switching.

try that and see if the problem follows, or goes away entirely.

ideally, reset all pairings, but that probably won't make much of a
difference so not a big deal if you don't.

try to keep the rest of the setup the same (wifi, usb 3 devices, etc.).

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

That must be why my multi-hundred MB map Wi-Fi downloads on my phones/
tablets increase in speed by an order of magnitude when I disable
Bluetooth! It's all due to non-existing interference.

just because it happens to you does not mean it's a widespread issue.

Ah, nospam's (in)famous 'It must be you!' logical fallacy!

Just because most people don't even realize it's happening, doesn't
mean it doesn't happen quite a lot.

Just because it doesn't happen to you (read: you don't realize it
happening), doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

i didn't say it didn't happen. i said it's not a widespread issue.

and if it's not noticed, then it doesn't actually matter, does it?

As to it happening to 'me': It happens on 5 of 5 devices, 3 different
brands, 2 major ones, 1 somewhat less major.

again, just because it happens to you doesn't mean everyone will
experience it.

right now, i have 4 computers within arm's reach, along with several
cellphones and some iot devices, all with bluetooth and wifi enabled
and no issues at all.

i sometimes use bluetooth headphones (although not at the moment), also
without issue. any dropouts would *immediately* be noticeable.

that's just two data points, which isn't all that meaningful, so here's
a third:
l-september.org,
Peter Kozlov wrote:
...I have a MacBook, but that has an
Apple Bluetooth mouse which doesn¹t exhibit this behavior at all.

three is only slightly better than two, so what about the rest of the
world?

hundreds of millions of people use smartphones with bluetooth and wifi
enabled every single day without significant problems, and that's on a
device where the wifi & bluetooth antennas are *much* closer than with
a traditional computer and where there are probably many other people
also with smartphones (and maybe computers) nearby.

a common scenario is listening to streaming music (over wifi) on
bluetooth headphones.

spotify has ~160 million active users per month, many of whom are
listening with bluetooth headphones and streaming over wifi:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/367739/spotify-global-mau/

and then there's p2p wifi, which uses bluetooth to configure the wifi
link. they can't interfere with each other or it wouldn't work at all.

plenty of examples of interference *not* being a problem. nothing is
perfect, so there might be a few issues here and there, but it's not
widespread.

another thing to keep in mind is that not all radios are of the same
quality. some are more resistant to interference than others and some
generate more interference than others. pick the wrong two and there
could be problems. replace one and the problem goes away. in other
words, it's not wifi/bt interference, but crappy parts.

Frank Slootweg Wrote in message:
ghyrpejsekier wrote:

Two of my devices (laptop and tablet/keyboard) have
only one USB port. The Bluetooth mouse saves me having to use a dongle
or unplugging the mouse receiver when I need the port. Further the mouse
I use has a 2 device capability so I just push a button on the mouse to
change devices.

Strange combination for a laptop: Having Bluetooth - i.e. somewhat new
-, but only one USB port.

You got me there. I call it my laptop cuz I use it as one. But
it's also
capable of bending around to become a horribly large, heavy, and
IMO almost unusable tablet so it's not really a laptop.

On Tue, 29 May 2018 12:53:32 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article
al-september.org, Peter
Kozlov wrote:

It1s not that sleep it goes into when not being used. I1m actively using
it and suddenly it becomes lethargic for a few seconds and then returns to
normal. So as you move the pointer across the screen, it responds, bug
it1s
sluggish. If I wait for two or three seconds it returns to normal on its
own.
It1s annoying more than anything else.

does it do that with more than one computer?

It¹s a Lenovo ThinkPad T460 with a Lenovo Bluetooth mouse. Bought at the
same time on the same order shipped at the same time. I¹ve only ever used
these two together. That¹s my Windows PC. I have a MacBook, but that has an
Apple Bluetooth mouse which doesn¹t exhibit this behavior at all.

according to some others in this thread, you are supposed to have
interference no matter what you do.

I have
not tried switching.

try that and see if the problem follows, or goes away entirely.

That sounds like, try a rain dance and see if it helps. The fact that
it works for hours at a time and then gets laggy and then it goes away
tells me that the drivers work. That the device works. If they didn't,
it wouldn't work at all. I'll try Lenovo and if see what they say.
Thank you for trying.

ideally, reset all pairings, but that probably won't make much of a
difference so not a big deal if you don't.

Agreed. I don't think that has anything to do with it either.

try to keep the rest of the setup the same (wifi, usb 3 devices, etc.).

Yeah, not going to change a bunch of things hoping to strike gold.
Anything I do I have to just wait for hours of usage and see if it
returns. Hopefully Lenovo has enough of these calls if it is indeed an
issue to know about it and have a potential solution to it. If
anything, I'd be willing to buy another of their mice and try that
just to rule out the mouse.

Seriously thanks for trying.

--
Peter Kozlov

On Tue, 29 May 2018 12:13:13 -0400, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On Tue, 29 May 2018 08:53:03 -0700, Peter Kozlov
wrote:

On May 29, 2018, Doomsdrzej wrote
(in ):

On Mon, 28 May 2018 18:52:41 -0700, Peter Kozlov
wrote:

On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 28, 2018, Paul wrote
(in article ):

Jason wrote:
In article
l-
september.org, gn says...
Any words of wisdom on this?
I have seen the same behavior. In my case it is caused by
activity on a USB3-connected disk. If the disk is attached
but idle there is no interference. But Windows cannot
leave well enough alone apparently, and when I see the
light on the disk flickering I can expect the mouse
operation to get "choppy" for a few seconds.
Spatially separating the USB3 side of the machine from the Bluetooth
side of the machine, may be enough to stop the stuttering.

The nanoreceiver for Bluetooth can be put on a short piece of USB
extension cable, to improve the ability to position it so it is closer
to the mouse.

USB3 emissions have a broad peak at 2.5GHz and nulls at 0Hz and 5GHz.
The most impacted computer signals are Wifi and Bluetooth at 2.4GHz.

In the past, there was no sign of an emissions problem with
USB2. Where the data bit rate and edge rate of the signals
is quite different than USB3.

Paul

This is the built in Bluetooth on a Lenovo Thinkpad.

How about disabling the built-in one and using a nano receiver ?
That will at least allow placing the antenna on the side where you use the
mouse.

Paul

If I have to do that it defeats the whole point in my opinion. I may as well
use a mouse with a USB receiver. Those work well. The whole point was not to
need USB ports and just have the bluetooth mouse itself. Nothing needed for
USB at all.

I hear ya. The point of me buying a Bluetooth mouse (the Microsoft one
with a smooth scrolling surface) was to empty up a USB port being used
by USB receiver. The USB receivers seem never to be affected by
interference at all and Bluetooth - unless you're using a good mouse -
is constantly affected. Is it possible your mouse is just pure ****e?

Anything is possible. It’s a Lenovo mouse and a Lenovo laptop. I’d think
the two work well together, no? According to Lenovo’s own software my
drivers are all up to date. I can always ask Lenovo, though I am thinking
this just might be a bluetooth thing. How many in here actually use Bluetooth
mice?

Forgot to paste the url:
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-Yoga-Series-Notebooks/Bluetooth-mouse-slow-when-downloading-WiFi-data-on-Yoga/td-p/936691/page/4

I'll look for that settings. That sounds logical. The only way to know
is to change it and then use it for hours and hours and see if it
doesn't come up at all. Hopefully that works.

Thanks.

--
Peter Kozlov

Peter Kozlov wrote:
On May 29, 2018, nospam wrote
(in ) :

In article
l-september.org, Peter
Kozlov wrote:

It¹s not that sleep it goes into when not being used. I¹m actively using
it and suddenly it becomes lethargic for a few seconds and then returns to
normal. So as you move the pointer across the screen, it responds, bug it¹s
sluggish. If I wait for two or three seconds it returns to normal on its
own.
It¹s annoying more than anything else.
does it do that with more than one computer?

It’s a Lenovo ThinkPad T460 with a Lenovo Bluetooth mouse. Bought at the
same time on the same order shipped at the same time. I’ve only ever used
these two together. That’s my Windows PC. I have a MacBook, but that has an
Apple Bluetooth mouse which doesn’t exhibit this behavior at all. I have
not tried switching.


There is one bug in Windows 10, which causes lag
and stutter on a wired mouse. It's called the
"Chromium build bug", because people building copies
of Chromium (open source Chrome) discovered it.

It involves activities on a computer, which fork
tasks constantly (like compiler and linker). The
build tool insists on oversubscribing the CPU
(more tasks are forked than cores). This apparently
causes a bit of starvation for some background
tasks the OS wants to run, at a guess. Anyone who
does builds knows, that the build tools are designed
to oversubscribe on purpose, to get "maximum build
speed" from the hardware. We don't buy $10K boxen
for software developers, to have the hardware
"half used, because it's convenient for us to run
the OS that way".

After a while, starting a small test program while
the build is running, will show the mouse losing
responsiveness and stuttering. And presumably
there is some sort of garbage collection going
on in the background.

Microsoft has not fixed this. But bug was reported
by the person who detected the problem. I tested
in 16299 (doing a Chromium build) and the characteristics
were modified a bit, but it's still not fixed.

I doubt this is your problem, but you never know...

If you're not doing a Chromium or Firefox or Thunderbird
build, you might never notice this one. I think I
turned down the parallelism on Chromium build, by
using "-j 1", but unfortunately, the Visual Studio
tools have their own options for parallelism, where
say a linker might use three cores for some reason.
When you use -j 1, that doesn't actually entirely
serialize the build and prevent parallelism.

It's also possible to reduce the Windows 10 desktop
to an unresponsive state, when the garbage collector
the DE uses cuts in. On my machine, the garbage collector
interval lasts for around 20 seconds. If you click
on an icon to open a program during this 20 second
interval, nothing happens. Not even the icon shading
changes. Microsoft (partially) fixed this in 17034.
In 16299, the garbage collector would continue to
cause 20 second outages at random. On 17034, you can
have an initial 20 second outage, but subsequently
the garbage collector doesn't do that over and over
again for no reason. So the behavior is "partially
patched", and the borked architecture remains.
The Object Oriented crowd would be proud, of a
design that reduces a modern piece of hardware
to a vegetable like that :-) (They love garbage collectors.)
Good job. Feels like MacOS from 1990 or something.
I don't think I've ever seen Linux do that :-)
You can have the Xserver tip over on Linux
(Xorg has its weak points), but "snoozing"
doesn't seem to be a failure mode for it.

Paul