Bluetooth Mouse lag - Sometimes

On Thu, 31 May 2018 11:50:09 -0400, Jason
wrote:

In article , says...
have you tried
using a better USB cable, especially a shielded USB cable?

Ham radio operators (I'm one) have a drawer filled with ferrite chokes.
I have them deployed on just about every cable. I doesn't seem to make
much of a difference with the disk - its cable came without a choke. I
suspect the radiation is from the drive itself. It's in a plastic case.
(WD Passport)

The suggestion that I up the performance from balanced has had an
affect. It doesn't remove the problem but I can say it does appear to
have lessoned it. I've been using it this way for a couple days now.
The problem still exists but when the lag hits there is less of it and
it doesn't linger as long.

My fan is on a lot more and I so I decided to just go back to balanced
performance.

--
Peter Kozlov

Jason wrote:
In article , says...
have you tried
using a better USB cable, especially a shielded USB cable?

Ham radio operators (I'm one) have a drawer filled with ferrite chokes.
I have them deployed on just about every cable. I doesn't seem to make
much of a difference with the disk - its cable came without a choke. I
suspect the radiation is from the drive itself. It's in a plastic case.
(WD Passport)

Is there a Ferrite for 2.5GHz ?

The materials used to have a "color" painted on them,
in terms of the frequency band the ferrite works in.
It appears "resistive" at the frequency in question,
turning the signal into heat.

Paul

Char Jackson wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

So what do you do when the mouse hits the end of your mousepad (or
usable free space on your desk)?

I recenter it on the pad.

Which requires lifting. Accelerated (non-linear) tracking doesn't apply
when you are moving the mouse linearly, like when drawing. Faster
tracking makes more difficult to zero in to a particular spot without
overshooting. I do have some acceleration and speed adjust but
obviously not nearly so much as other respondents who must only using
their overpriced computer to do e-mail and web surfing.

While at home I also do work remotedly but I also play video games.
Most video games will disable acceleration by default because it
interferes with accurate tracking. Instead of looking left or right,
your avatar spins around a couple times. Higher speed tracking means
inability to perform small accurate movements. When drawing,
accelerated and higher-speed tracking suck (and, yes, for those ready to
fire a retort, I do have a drawing pad but don't use it all the time).

You see, a mouse isn't heavy by any human standards, whether it's wired
or wireless.

A pen or pencil isn't heavy, either, when you just lift it once. Most
times it rests on the writing surface with your fingers moving it
around. Now try holding the pen in the air for a hour. No, I'm not
saying that the total time per day that I lift the mouse is an hour but
it is definitely not once per day. As such, I am more aware of the
difference between lighter and heavier mice.

What could you possibly be doing with your mouse, where pushing it
around tires you out, or where periodically lifting it to recenter it on
your mousepad fatigues your arm/hand/finger?

Okay, let us abandon how much lifting of the mouse involves the pinkie.
Let's take about attack: grip.

Besides the style of grip (fingertip, claw, palm), where are the fingers
of your hand positioned on the mouse? Typically a 3-button mouse has
the user place the thumb on the vertical side of the mouse with the
primary button, index finder atop the primary button, middle finger atop
the wheel/middlebutton, ring finger atop the secondary button, and
pinkie on the vertical side of the mouse with the secondary finger. Is
that how you hold your mouse? If so, you're gripping your mouse using
your strongest and weakest fingers hence pinky fatigue after many HOURS
of use.

If you don't rest a finger atop the wheel/middlebutton then perhaps you
place both your ring finger and pinkie on the secondary button's
vertical side of the mouse. That means having to unnaturally spread
one, or more, of your fingers (stretch the ring finger to the side to
grip the mouse and stretch apart the index and middle finger to rest
atop the primary and alternate buttons) along with having to share a
finger between the primary or alternate buttons with the middle button
eliminating the possibility to chord and requiring lateral movement of a
finger.

For me, the fingertip style too often results in unwanted clicks of the
buttons since more of a finger is resting atop the button, plus I have
to move my whole arm to move the mouse around. The palm style is often
not an option because mice have gone undersized, especially for mobile
mice. I can get a bigger mouse but I have to work on lots of
workstations. I tend to use the claw style for quick and accurate
button press plus I can quickly move the move in and out of the pit of
my palm without any arm movement.

My 5-finger grip pattern on a 3-button mouse is: thumb on vertical side
by primary button, index finger atop primary button, middle finger atop
wheel/middlebutton, ring finger atop alternate button, and pinkie on the
other side. All fingers are straight out instead of tensed aside by
extra muscular action. Albeit the weakest finger, my pinkie pinches the
mouse with the thumb. Because the pinkie is involved in gripping the
mouse, I don't want a mouse that is too wide resulting in having to
tense my pinkie outward. For those using the finger or palm style, yep,
doesn't matter where is their pinkie but then they have more arm
movement. Most mice these days are too short front-to-back for palm
style but I can try fingertip style for awhile (since my pinkie won't be
pinching the mouse) to see if fatigue decreases; however, as noted, when
I've used that style before, there were too many accidental button
presses (I dislike stiff buttons - slow response time and accuracy).

So how do you grip your mouse that allows the fingers to be untensed
(not pulled or stretched sideways from their natural straight forward
rest position) while not using the weak pinkie to grip the mouse while
having a ready finger atop each button? 6-fingered freaks need not
reply. Which grip style do you use: finger, claw, or palm?

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:

So what do you do when the mouse hits the end of your mousepad (or
usable free space on your desk)?

I recenter it on the pad.

Which requires lifting.

actually it doesn't. just tilt it enough so that it's not tracking and
then slide it.

shemp14 wrote:

Just a couple of questions.

1) What size monitor?

2) Multiple monitors?

I ask because my setup using 1 24" diag. monitor with a Logitech M510
Bluetooth mouse (132g with batteries) allows me the control I need within
the confines os a mousepad (I don't use a pad, optical mice usually don't
need one).

In my case, it doesn't really matter how heavy the mouse is. Whatever works
for you.

24" single monitor at home.
Multiple sized and multiple monitors per station at work.

From other responses, users have severely upped the accelerated tracking
or speed tracking or both for their mouse config in order not to overrun
the boundaries of the mouse pad or freespace atop their desk. For
linear movement of the mouse, accelerated tracking does not engage.
Upping the speed tracking makes more difficult any fine granular
movement of the mouse (try to point here, went too far, pull back,
missed again, move back, only to find the higher speed made the mouse
too coarse so it's tough to get to a specific spot). Because I more use
linear movement than the other respondents, I run out of pad space and
have to lift the mouse to reposition it without moving the cursor.
Apparently I do more fine-positioned work with the mouse than the other
respondents. I have some acceleration enabled and have linear speed at
about half but any more and the mouse becomes driving a car atop a
chessboard.

I adjust acceleration and speed according to how I want the mouse cursor
to react to positioning of the mouse for how I use the mouse, not based
on limitations in the size of the mouse pad or free deskspace. There
are no settings for the mouse that reflect the current size of the OS
desktop along with physical boundary limits for mouse pad size.

Must be I make more linear use of the mouse while others flick their
mice around a lot to employ acceleration to overcome the limits of mouse
pad size.

nospam wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

So what do you do when the mouse hits the end of your mousepad (or
usable free space on your desk)?

I recenter it on the pad.

Which requires lifting.

actually it doesn't. just tilt it enough so that it's not tracking and
then slide it.

One, that's still lifting plus requires twisting the wrist; however, it
is an alternative lifting style. Two, tilting is tough to accomplish
without causing the mouse cursor to move with a laser mouse since their
range is greater than optical mice.

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:

So what do you do when the mouse hits the end of your mousepad (or
usable free space on your desk)?

I recenter it on the pad.

Which requires lifting.

actually it doesn't. just tilt it enough so that it's not tracking and
then slide it.

One, that's still lifting plus requires twisting the wrist;

it's less force than lifting it and the twisting is negligible.

however, it
is an alternative lifting style. Two, tilting is tough to accomplish
without causing the mouse cursor to move with a laser mouse since their
range is greater than optical mice.

laser mice *are* optical mice, and it's *very* easy to tilt enough so
it stops tracking. i do it *all* the time.

Andy Burns wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:

a laptop: Having Bluetooth - i.e. somewhat new

Eh? My Dell D800 had internal bluetooth (which I used for mouse) and
that must have been ~15 years ago...

Victim of selective reading/quoting.

My comment was:

Strange combination for a laptop: Having Bluetooth - i.e. somewhat new
-, but only one USB port.

So age is relative, it's about the *combination* of having Bluetooth
*and* having only *one* USB port.

Example: My HP OmniBook vt2000 from about 2000, had already
*two* USB ports, but no Bluetooth (probably too early, see Wikipedia
comment below).

Question: How many USB ports did your Dell D800 have?

FWIW, Wikipedia says that Windows XP Service Pack 2 came with
Bluetooth support, so your '~15 years ago...' is probably correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Operating_system_implementation

Frank Slootweg wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

My comment was:

Strange combination for a laptop: Having Bluetooth - i.e. somewhat new
-, but only one USB port.

So age is relative, it's about the *combination* of having Bluetooth
*and* having only *one* USB port.

They way I read it (and still do really) is that "having bluetooth"
makes the laptop "somewhat new" and that having a single USB port in
combination with bluetooth is "strange".

Any laptop or desktop with a single USB port would be strange IME, no
exception for recent MacBooks.

How many USB ports did your Dell D800 have?

2 onboard and 2 on the docking station, it's still around somewhere.

FWIW, Wikipedia says that Windows XP Service Pack 2 came with
Bluetooth support, so your '~15 years ago...' is probably correct.

I remember staying with the CSR bluetooth stack instead of the Microsoft
stack for some time after that.

nospam wrote:

(nospam removed all the attributions except mine, so the only quoted
content will be mine and all others trimmed. I'm not bothering to
re-add all the deliberately deleted attributions.)

VanguardLH wrote:

One, that's still lifting plus requires twisting the wrist;

it's less force than lifting it and the twisting is negligible.

You're just guessing hoping to prove your argument. You are not a
doctor or physics graduate. Cite references, please.

Two, tilting is tough to accomplish
without causing the mouse cursor to move with a laser mouse since their
range is greater than optical mice.

laser mice *are* optical mice, and it's *very* easy to tilt enough so
it stops tracking. i do it *all* the time.

And a Ford Fiesta and Bugati Veyron are, ahem, both cars, too. And
Windows 10 is still a DOS (disk operating system). And HDDs and
floppies are both disks. And your Intel i7 and a Osborne 1 are both
computers. Learn the lingo.

Odd our local omnicient know-it-all doesn't understand terminology.
https://www.lifewire.com/whats-the-d...r-mice-2640209
https://www.windowscentral.com/laser...-optical-mouse

Notice the use of "optical" and "laser" to differentiate the type of
LEDs used in each type of mouse.

Since laser mice read farther (deeper), you would have to tilt farther
away from the pad for it to stop sensing a change in position. I've
noticed the same effect when lifting laser mice: you have to lift higher
with a laser mouse to get it further from the pad to have it stop
sensing a position change than with optical mice.

Andy Burns wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

My comment was:

Strange combination for a laptop: Having Bluetooth - i.e. somewhat new
-, but only one USB port.

So age is relative, it's about the *combination* of having Bluetooth
*and* having only *one* USB port.

They way I read it (and still do really) is that "having bluetooth"
makes the laptop "somewhat new" and that having a single USB port in
combination with bluetooth is "strange".

Fair enough! Just shows that this Dutchie can write real crappy
English without really trying! :-)

Any laptop or desktop with a single USB port would be strange IME, no
exception for recent MacBooks.

Exactly!

[...]

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:


One, that's still lifting plus requires twisting the wrist;

it's less force than lifting it and the twisting is negligible.

You're just guessing hoping to prove your argument. You are not a
doctor or physics graduate. Cite references, please.

no guessing needed nor does one need advanced physics degrees.

Two, tilting is tough to accomplish
without causing the mouse cursor to move with a laser mouse since their
range is greater than optical mice.

laser mice *are* optical mice, and it's *very* easy to tilt enough so
it stops tracking. i do it *all* the time.

And a Ford Fiesta and Bugati Veyron are, ahem, both cars, too. And
Windows 10 is still a DOS (disk operating system). And HDDs and
floppies are both disks. And your Intel i7 and a Osborne 1 are both
computers. Learn the lingo.

Odd our local omnicient know-it-all doesn't understand terminology.

https://www.lifewire.com/whats-the-d...d-laser-mice-2
640209
https://www.windowscentral.com/laser...-optical-mouse

Notice the use of "optical" and "laser" to differentiate the type of
LEDs used in each type of mouse.

nitpicking.

both are *optical* mice, versus mechanical mice.

Since laser mice read farther (deeper), you would have to tilt farther
away from the pad for it to stop sensing a change in position. I've
noticed the same effect when lifting laser mice: you have to lift higher
with a laser mouse to get it further from the pad to have it stop
sensing a position change than with optical mice.

there is no significant difference in distance.

In article ,
lid says...

Jason wrote:
In article , says...
have you tried
using a better USB cable, especially a shielded USB cable?

Ham radio operators (I'm one) have a drawer filled with ferrite chokes.
I have them deployed on just about every cable. I doesn't seem to make
much of a difference with the disk - its cable came without a choke. I
suspect the radiation is from the drive itself. It's in a plastic case.
(WD Passport)

Is there a Ferrite for 2.5GHz ?

The materials used to have a "color" painted on them,
in terms of the frequency band the ferrite works in.
It appears "resistive" at the frequency in question,
turning the signal into heat.

Paul

See: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/156/ferrites-740990.pdf

nospam wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

You're just guessing hoping to prove your argument. You are not a
doctor or physics graduate. Cite references, please.

no guessing needed nor does one need advanced physics degrees.

Non sequitur ad nauseum.

there is no significant difference in distance.

Be careful. Anyone that verifies your proclamation will find you
deliberately mislead (aka lied).

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 11:53:28 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

I adjust acceleration and speed according to how I want the mouse cursor
to react to positioning of the mouse for how I use the mouse, not based
on limitations in the size of the mouse pad or free deskspace.

That's probably the crux of the issue. I adjust mouse speed so that when
the cursor is centered on the screen and the mouse is centered on its
pad, I can move in any direction and hit the edge of the screen before I
hit the edge of the mouse pad. I never really gave it much thought, but
checking 3 PCs just now, I see that I've set each of them that way. I
have about an inch of pad remaining when the cursor hits any edge of the
screen. That seems to work great for me.

I'll grant that my speed setting probably doesn't give someone like you
enough precision, (from what you've described, you use your computer for
different tasks than I do), but the part I'm still stumbling over is
your claim that it physically fatigues you to lift and reposition your
mouse. Or, more specifically, it fatigues your pinkie finger. I admit
that I don't understand that at all. If we stipulate that a mouse weighs
between 50 and 150 grams, even at the high end not many would call it
heavy, and fewer still would complain about lifting it or pushing it
around. Years of office work tends to cause muscular atrophy, but you're
taking it to a whole new level. I can't go there with you.

There are no settings for the mouse that reflect the current size of the OS
desktop along with physical boundary limits for mouse pad size.

Are you sure? I always manage to find that exact setting.

Must be I make more linear use of the mouse while others flick their
mice around a lot to employ acceleration to overcome the limits of mouse
pad size.

I don't know. I don't use acceleration.