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#1
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to
the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? |
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#2
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
Peter Jason wrote:
I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? An SSD could be hot, because it did not receive any cooling air. Some laptop drive bays are almost completely insulated, and there is no airflow. Sometimes, a laptop with such a design, ships with a 5400 RPM drive in it. Specifically, because the manufacturer knows the bay is "power limited" and a higher performance drive will overheat in there. ******* The drive could run hot, as a function of the "level of activity". M.2 drives (running at up to 2500MB/sec), tend to hit thermal limits more than conventional SATA SSDs (500MB/sec). CMOS power dissipation is a function of FCV^2. And F is the toggle frequency (as an output toggles between 0 and 1 and back to 0 again. We can't tell exactly what the SSD drive is doing all the time, as it has its own processor and background maintenance processes. The spec sheet for the drive lists various power specs. Like, how much power it draws on a write, and how much power it draws when (nominally) idle. If you had a clamp-on DC ammeter, you could measure the current flow on the +5V wire of the SATA power cable. Maybe a drive I have here, draws around 500mA max (as the ones I've checked, seem ready to use with USB ports). Using your clamp-on DC ammeter, you can measure the current flow and get some idea whether the device is radically outside of norms or not. A ceramic capacitor could fail short, or a solder joint could have a shorted solder connection, and that might make something hot. That kind of thing has been seen on DIMMs before, and it's a bit weird, as the DIMMs are supposed to receive a quick test before they go into the package. But if the drive is uniformly hot, it could be that the drive has no air cooling. If the drive only dissipates 0.15W at idle, it's going to be pretty hard to raise the casing to 60C that way. If you have a Kingston SSD, those use SandForce controllers that compress write data and decompress read data. And that burns up more power than drives that don't compress. The spec sheet for the drive, should reflect that extra power usage. Paul |
#3
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:14:36 -0500, Paul
wrote: Peter Jason wrote: I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? An SSD could be hot, because it did not receive any cooling air. Some laptop drive bays are almost completely insulated, and there is no airflow. Sometimes, a laptop with such a design, ships with a 5400 RPM drive in it. Specifically, because the manufacturer knows the bay is "power limited" and a higher performance drive will overheat in there. ******* The drive could run hot, as a function of the "level of activity". M.2 drives (running at up to 2500MB/sec), tend to hit thermal limits more than conventional SATA SSDs (500MB/sec). CMOS power dissipation is a function of FCV^2. And F is the toggle frequency (as an output toggles between 0 and 1 and back to 0 again. We can't tell exactly what the SSD drive is doing all the time, as it has its own processor and background maintenance processes. The spec sheet for the drive lists various power specs. Like, how much power it draws on a write, and how much power it draws when (nominally) idle. If you had a clamp-on DC ammeter, you could measure the current flow on the +5V wire of the SATA power cable. Maybe a drive I have here, draws around 500mA max (as the ones I've checked, seem ready to use with USB ports). Using your clamp-on DC ammeter, you can measure the current flow and get some idea whether the device is radically outside of norms or not. A ceramic capacitor could fail short, or a solder joint could have a shorted solder connection, and that might make something hot. That kind of thing has been seen on DIMMs before, and it's a bit weird, as the DIMMs are supposed to receive a quick test before they go into the package. But if the drive is uniformly hot, it could be that the drive has no air cooling. If the drive only dissipates 0.15W at idle, it's going to be pretty hard to raise the casing to 60C that way. If you have a Kingston SSD, those use SandForce controllers that compress write data and decompress read data. And that burns up more power than drives that don't compress. The spec sheet for the drive, should reflect that extra power usage. Paul Thanks, it was a Samsung 750 EVO SSD about 18 months old. Are there super-grade (military quality) SSDs available with longer life spans? And are the SSDs that plug into PCE slots any more reliable? I've always known SSDs to run cool. |
#4
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
In article , Peter Jason
wrote: Are there super-grade (military quality) SSDs available with longer life spans? longer than what? ssds last for *years*. And are the SSDs that plug into PCE slots any more reliable? no, but those are much faster than sata. I've always known SSDs to run cool. they get warm, but not scorching hot like a 7200 rpm drive would. |
#5
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
Peter Jason wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:14:36 -0500, Paul wrote: Peter Jason wrote: I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? An SSD could be hot, because it did not receive any cooling air. Some laptop drive bays are almost completely insulated, and there is no airflow. Sometimes, a laptop with such a design, ships with a 5400 RPM drive in it. Specifically, because the manufacturer knows the bay is "power limited" and a higher performance drive will overheat in there. ******* The drive could run hot, as a function of the "level of activity". M.2 drives (running at up to 2500MB/sec), tend to hit thermal limits more than conventional SATA SSDs (500MB/sec). CMOS power dissipation is a function of FCV^2. And F is the toggle frequency (as an output toggles between 0 and 1 and back to 0 again. We can't tell exactly what the SSD drive is doing all the time, as it has its own processor and background maintenance processes. The spec sheet for the drive lists various power specs. Like, how much power it draws on a write, and how much power it draws when (nominally) idle. If you had a clamp-on DC ammeter, you could measure the current flow on the +5V wire of the SATA power cable. Maybe a drive I have here, draws around 500mA max (as the ones I've checked, seem ready to use with USB ports). Using your clamp-on DC ammeter, you can measure the current flow and get some idea whether the device is radically outside of norms or not. A ceramic capacitor could fail short, or a solder joint could have a shorted solder connection, and that might make something hot. That kind of thing has been seen on DIMMs before, and it's a bit weird, as the DIMMs are supposed to receive a quick test before they go into the package. But if the drive is uniformly hot, it could be that the drive has no air cooling. If the drive only dissipates 0.15W at idle, it's going to be pretty hard to raise the casing to 60C that way. If you have a Kingston SSD, those use SandForce controllers that compress write data and decompress read data. And that burns up more power than drives that don't compress. The spec sheet for the drive, should reflect that extra power usage. Paul Thanks, it was a Samsung 750 EVO SSD about 18 months old. Are there super-grade (military quality) SSDs available with longer life spans? And are the SSDs that plug into PCE slots any more reliable? I've always known SSDs to run cool. The SMART table for the drive has a temperature readout. You could try that, to quantify the temperature. A Samsung probably doesn't use data compression like the Sandforce design does, so there isn't a reason for it to run quite as hot. And "hot" is when you burn yourself. When you cannot hold your finger on electronics for more than 2 seconds, that's about 60-65C or so. I used to work with boards of ECL logic, and the entire surface of a running design can be that hot. (There's no place to lay your scope probe hand.) But the chips on those could take a lot more heat, more than CMOS, and as most practitioners would note, those "only start to work well when they get hot". Whereas the CMOS everything is made of now, is not the same. The IC packages have changed too, and fewer ceramic packages are used, and more plastic for the smaller ones (like the flash) are used. If you don't have a spec sheet, a temp of 99C is a good upper limit for modern electronics (the "organic" packaging starts to degrade above that temp, whereas the silicon can suffer over a period of time if the temp is 135C junction - parametric shift). And those kinds of temperatures will raise a blister for sure. That's the boiling point of water+. Some SSD housings have thermal tape between the tops of the IC packages and the metal casing, to enhance heat transfer. Which is a bit strange when the power dissipation is in the 2.5W range. Usually companies try to save money, and let the chips run hotter. (You see this on TV tuner dongles perhaps, in USB stick format, an absence of caring about chip temps.) Paul |
#6
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
In article , Paul
wrote: A Samsung probably doesn't use data compression like the Sandforce design does, so there isn't a reason for it to run quite as hot. that isn't going to make a difference. |
#7
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
nospam wrote:
In article , Paul wrote: A Samsung probably doesn't use data compression like the Sandforce design does, so there isn't a reason for it to run quite as hot. that isn't going to make a difference. Uh yes, yes it does. Paul |
#8
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
In article , Paul
wrote: A Samsung probably doesn't use data compression like the Sandforce design does, so there isn't a reason for it to run quite as hot. that isn't going to make a difference. Uh yes, yes it does. no, it does not. heat is a function of total power consumption, not a particular feature. |
#9
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
Peter Jason wrote:
I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? You can see some discussion here about various kinds of flaws that could happen inside an SSD. And at least one poster here is suggesting various checks for shorted caps and the presence of successful power conversion inside. (For example, a "buck converter" is one of the power conversion components inside. A buck converter converts a higher DC voltage to a lower DC voltage, when such a voltage is not available on the main power connector.) https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36439 And "depops" on a circuit board is normal. On some of the earlier SSDs, there was an option to have a SuperCap for power during emergency shutdown, and the SuperCap and associated regulator are removed for the consumer drive version of the SSD. So those pads wouldn't have caps or resistors or... whatever. One thing that's interesting on the drive, is it has what looks like a Polyfuse. That's a polycrystalline fuse that opens when the current flow is too high, and cools off and recrystallizes when the current flow goes back into spec. So rather than that particular drive "burning to a crisp", instead the fuse opens and the drive stops sucking power. And of course, when the fuse opens, the drive no longer responds on the SATA data connector. But if you wanted to open a drive, the very first step is to find a picture of one of your drives disassembled. If the drive has thermal tape, then you don't want to open it "for fun". That is, unless you happen to have a roll of thermal tape, to put the cooling solution back in place during reassembly. If the product didn't use thermal tape, and, you no longer cared about the warranty, you could remove the screws and look inside. Thermal tape isn't necessarily destructive, but you could perhaps bend the cover on the SSD while trying to disassemble it. Some thermal tapes hold well enough, to keep a 50 gram aluminum heatsink in place, without screws. Paul |
#10
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
Paul wrote:
Peter Jason wrote: I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? You can see some discussion here about various kinds of flaws that could happen inside an SSD. And there is variation between products, on idle power. The column on the left has "Power Consumption" and "Active Idle Power", and as you'd expect, the Optane is near the top of the list. You could check and see if your model happens to be in the list. https://www.anandtech.com/bench/SSD18/2424 Paul |
#11
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:42:26 -0500, Paul
wrote: Paul wrote: Peter Jason wrote: I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? You can see some discussion here about various kinds of flaws that could happen inside an SSD. And there is variation between products, on idle power. The column on the left has "Power Consumption" and "Active Idle Power", and as you'd expect, the Optane is near the top of the list. You could check and see if your model happens to be in the list. https://www.anandtech.com/bench/SSD18/2424 Paul Thanks Paul. For Samsung there seems to be a super SSD (for nearly double the price) supposedly delivering twice the life. https://postimg.cc/0Mcs4Z4S I'll propbably get these in future. |
#12
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
On 01/13/19 12:49, Peter Jason wrote:
I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? well, if it's got an electrical problem causing overheat, then it could be *ONE* sign of a failing SSD -- (aka 'Bombastic Bob' in case you wondered) 'Feeling with my fingers, and thinking with my brain' - me 'your story is so touching, but it sounds just like a lie' "Straighten up and fly right" |
#13
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Do SSDs get hot on failure?
On 1/13/2019 3:49 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
I have isolated an SSD because it was very hot to the touch (others are barely warm) and this has fixed recurrent "scan/repair disks" flags in the RHD notifications screen. Is this characteristic of failing SSDs? I just RMA'ed a drive that was going well over 50C. The replacement drive is very steady at 40C. |
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