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  #106  
Old August 4th 13, 10:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
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Posts: 7,485
Default Help for Neighbor?

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 21:52:06 -0700, XS11E wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:34:00 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:


In the meantime, I'm starting with a mental picture of 17 clowns
piling out of a 2CV...


Although I might have really been thinking of a 4CV :-)

More HP, smaller car...

It's been too long - my memory no longer is accurate about these
two items, and Google isn't jogging it too well.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_4CV


I had looked at those self-same sites before my post above, but they
didn't jog my memory too well.

That deserves a bit of explanation :-)

It's just that I had a mental picture of the 4CV that doesn't look like
those pictures, so I don't know exactly what I was thinking of.

It probably was the 4CV, and my mental picture is probably a bit
oxidized with age...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Ads
  #107  
Old August 4th 13, 10:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
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Posts: 7,485
Default Help for Neighbor?

On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 10:38:06 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

XS11E formulated on Sunday :
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:04:10 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:


I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as
that, for reasons you wont get to know about either.

Somehow I can't help but believe you already have divulged
everything you know :-)


I agree and I also stuck "Richard Rose" in my Bozo Bin with the rest of
the trolls.

I hope they play nice together......


MS Fanbois are so funny, are you on the payroll to help manage the
reputation of MS or dont they bother managing their reps on the
newsgroups becuase they are considered too geeky?

Whoops forgot I'm in your bozo bin guess I wont get a reply then
asumming you are not all the same sock puppets!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29


Obviously it has not occurred to you that the problem is all about you,
not us.

I have no love for Microsoft, but I have less love for your posturing.

BTW, you are not in my bozo bin; I'm not XS11E, although I *do* have
respect for *his* posturing :-)

IMO, you have not contributed anything useful to this discussion, so in
the future I plan to resist the temptation to reply to your remarks.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #108  
Old August 4th 13, 11:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
XS11E
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Posts: 793
Default Help for Neighbor?

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 10:38:06 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:


MS Fanbois are so funny, are you on the payroll to help manage
the reputation of MS or dont they bother managing their reps on
the newsgroups becuase they are considered too geeky?

Whoops forgot I'm in your bozo bin guess I wont get a reply then
asumming you are not all the same sock puppets!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29


Obviously it has not occurred to you that the problem is all about
you, not us.

I have no love for Microsoft, but I have less love for your
posturing.

BTW, you are not in my bozo bin; I'm not XS11E, although I *do*
have respect for *his* posturing :-)

IMO, you have not contributed anything useful to this discussion,
so in the future I plan to resist the temptation to reply to your
remarks.


I have to love the troll's Fanboi comment! Windows worked for me right
through Windows Vista but now Windows 7 works only with Classic Shell
and Windows 8 is scheduled for deletion from my HD as soon as I can get
a round tuit! I haven't booted into Win8 for several weeks now.

Of course the troll doesn't know of my 6 year struggle to get Linux up
and working for me and my decision just a few months ago to just give
it up until such time as Intuit ports Quicken and TurboTax to Linux
(they don't run well or at all in Wine or in Crossover Office.)

I'm now convinced that Intuit never will port their software over
(don't know why) and that makes me a Windows 7 user for the rest of my
life, like it or not!

--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
  #109  
Old August 4th 13, 11:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
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Posts: 7,485
Default Help for Neighbor?

On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:05:47 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

If you're not producing documents with MS-Office (or
possibly Frame) you will find a lot of push-back in the real world
when you come to exchange or edit them co-operatively.


What is Frame? I've never heard of it. (A quick Google search failed.


Possibly a typo for FrameMaker?

Not sure whether it's one or two words, or if one word, camel case.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #110  
Old August 4th 13, 11:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
mechanic
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Posts: 1,064
Default Help for Neighbor?

On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:02:03 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

mechanic just doesn't seem to understand not everyone needs the bells
and whistles of a high end processor. :-(


No argument with that, you seem to overlook the obvious point that
when it comes to collaboration over the production of various
documents by groups of people who may not work in the same office or
for the same company, it pays to have standards and MS-Office is the
de facto standard tool these days. No-one here cares which tool you
use personally for your shopping lists, just as no-one cares what
car you drive.
  #111  
Old August 5th 13, 12:09 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default Help for Neighbor?

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:05:47 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

If you're not producing documents with MS-Office (or
possibly Frame) you will find a lot of push-back in the real world
when you come to exchange or edit them co-operatively.

What is Frame? I've never heard of it. (A quick Google search failed.


Possibly a typo for FrameMaker?

Not sure whether it's one or two words, or if one word, camel case.


FrameMaker and FrameBuilder are examples of good tools for
collaborative document writing. We routinely wrote 500+ page
specs with them. Like, a dozen people working on it at the
same time. A chapter a piece. When you're finished, you
generate TOC and index, like you would with Word. The difference
is, performance doesn't suck like it does on Word. No delays.

It's excellent for incorporating pictures. Gives good control over
composition, scale and the like. Not annoying like virtually
every other tool I've used. You can also do stick-art in there,
with the built-in drawing tools. We did plenty of flow charts,
or other goofy things, using the stick-art editor.

You wouldn't be able to include a "movie" in the middle of a doc,
but that's silly anyway. It's mainly intended for print media,
and even has Math Fonts so you can do equations. If you'd just
invented Quantum Mechanics, you could record every one of
your equations from the blackboard, in Frame. And, they'd look good.

Expensive, but recommended.

Paul
  #112  
Old August 5th 13, 12:20 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
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Posts: 101
Default Help for Neighbor?

But I don't agree with that. The WordPerfect .wpd format was much more
of a standard until around 1993. In 1993 WordPerfect 6.0 came out and
it was unfortunately a bug-laden version that drove many users away
from it.


I agree. WordPerfect was then default, and then Word Star.

When Word (1.x) came out, it has only two advantages: (1) GUI, and (2)
File compatibility with Word Perfect and Word Star. And Excel is aiming
at Lotus 123.

AmiPro came out at about same time, and I personally liked it over Word
(1.0) but it has another its own document format.

So I don't know about others, I chose Word for those two reasons
mentioned above and convinced more people and companies than I can
remember to switch to Word and later on Office.

Ironically, MS broke the most two important advantages by moving to a
confusing GUI and its file compatibility.

On 8/4/2013 23:00, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:41:26 +0800, xfile wrote:

Not body ever really cared about what processor was used and it has
always been the document format



Yes, I agree.


for which .doc was the default standard from the early days.



But I don't agree with that. The WordPerfect .wpd format was much more
of a standard until around 1993. In 1993 WordPerfect 6.0 came out and
it was unfortunately a bug-laden version that drove many users away
from it.



  #113  
Old August 5th 13, 12:22 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
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Posts: 101
Default Help for Neighbor?

It's unfortunate that version 6.1 drove so many people
away and Word and .doc files became much more popular to the extent
that WordPerfect is now a minor player in the word processor field.


That could be a major reason too, but I was one of big supporter to Word
at the time for reasons listed in my previous post.


On 8/4/2013 23:41, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 08:00:29 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:41:26 +0800, xfile wrote:

Not body ever really cared about what processor was used and it has
always been the document format



Yes, I agree.


for which .doc was the default standard from the early days.



But I don't agree with that. The WordPerfect .wpd format was much more
of a standard until around 1993. In 1993 WordPerfect 6.0 came out and
it was unfortunately a bug-laden version that drove many users away
from it.


And if I didn't make it clear in the above, largely for that reason it
was around then that Word became more popular and the .doc format took
over from .wpd.

To add to that, since version 6.1 came out, WordPerfect became much
more stable, and in my view it remains the best word processor out
there. I've run every version since 4.1 and now run the current
version, X6. It's unfortunate that version 6.1 drove so many people
away and Word and .doc files became much more popular to the extent
that WordPerfect is now a minor player in the word processor field.



  #114  
Old August 5th 13, 12:33 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
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Posts: 101
Default Help for Neighbor?

Even MS can't read all it's own Word formats. :-(

Exactly. Not all companies follow the same upgrade path, each has its
own priorities and resources limitation. Turned out so many problems
arose after Office 2007 amongst companies all using Office.




On 8/5/2013 00:33, Ken Springer wrote:
On 8/4/13 6:41 AM, xfile wrote:
I wasn't talking specifically about corporate use, although that is
important for setting default standards of file sharing too.


PDF is the new standard.


I think you are correct. In other newsgroups, I've read more and more
comments from heads of IT departments where they've specified the PDF
format as the company standard for exchanging documents between
individuals. Then, they don't have to worry nearly as much about
compatibility of software. Individuals can use what ever program makes
them the most efficient and productive.

If you're not producing documents with MS-Office (or
possibly Frame) you will find a lot of push-back in the real world
when you come to exchange or edit them co-operatively.


Not body ever really cared about what processor was used and it has
always been the document format for which .doc was the default standard
from the early days.


Ken Blake is correct, and to which I agreed, WPD was far more popular
than Word was in the early days.

Since MS broke its own file comparability since Office 2007 and more
readily available PDF editor, PDF format is the fast rising corporate
format plus it can be securely locked and signed.


Even MS can't read all it's own Word formats. :-(

You can use Word or any other processor to do it, nobody care. Fanboys
care about "which brand" while the rest of world care about get things
done, one way or the other.


Fanboys, or if you prefer the French version, Fanboi, LOL, are just a
PITA. It's like dealing with Chevy and Ford fanatics. IMO, many are
lemmings that will walk off a cliff with the others.

Although, that's not really true of real lemmings.

As this is a
windows-8 group I don't think people here would mind spending silly
money on software to do the job.


Money is not a subject but stupidity is, and the most intelligent and
professional approach is to spend the least amount of money to achieve
the maximum output and quality, instead of --- blindly following a brand.


Stupidity... Absolutely right! People will spend days researching a
new TV or car, but not computer software.

snip



  #115  
Old August 5th 13, 12:38 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
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Posts: 101
Default Help for Neighbor?

FrameMaker and FrameBuilder are examples of good tools for
collaborative document writing.


Is it something like PageMaker?

I remember many technical writers used PageMaker, but I haven't been
involved in technical writing for a long time.


On 8/5/2013 07:09, Paul wrote:
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 12:05:47 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

If you're not producing documents with MS-Office (or
possibly Frame) you will find a lot of push-back in the real world
when you come to exchange or edit them co-operatively.
What is Frame? I've never heard of it. (A quick Google search failed.


Possibly a typo for FrameMaker?

Not sure whether it's one or two words, or if one word, camel case.


FrameMaker and FrameBuilder are examples of good tools for
collaborative document writing. We routinely wrote 500+ page
specs with them. Like, a dozen people working on it at the
same time. A chapter a piece. When you're finished, you
generate TOC and index, like you would with Word. The difference
is, performance doesn't suck like it does on Word. No delays.

It's excellent for incorporating pictures. Gives good control over
composition, scale and the like. Not annoying like virtually
every other tool I've used. You can also do stick-art in there,
with the built-in drawing tools. We did plenty of flow charts,
or other goofy things, using the stick-art editor.

You wouldn't be able to include a "movie" in the middle of a doc,
but that's silly anyway. It's mainly intended for print media,
and even has Math Fonts so you can do equations. If you'd just
invented Quantum Mechanics, you could record every one of
your equations from the blackboard, in Frame. And, they'd look good.

Expensive, but recommended.

Paul


  #116  
Old August 5th 13, 12:44 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default Help for Neighbor?

xfile wrote:
FrameMaker and FrameBuilder are examples of good tools for
collaborative document writing.


Is it something like PageMaker?

I remember many technical writers used PageMaker, but I haven't been
involved in technical writing for a long time.


It doesn't have the graphical finesse of PageMaker.
It would be mainly considered a document editor.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._screencap.png

For example, if you needed a gradient in a background
of something you've drawn, I would expect PageMaker
to be able to do it, while FrameMaker can't.

Paul
  #117  
Old August 5th 13, 12:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
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Posts: 101
Default Help for Neighbor?

On 8/5/2013 07:44, Paul wrote:
xfile wrote:
FrameMaker and FrameBuilder are examples of good tools for
collaborative document writing.


Is it something like PageMaker?

I remember many technical writers used PageMaker, but I haven't been
involved in technical writing for a long time.


It doesn't have the graphical finesse of PageMaker.
It would be mainly considered a document editor.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._screencap.png


For example, if you needed a gradient in a background
of something you've drawn, I would expect PageMaker
to be able to do it, while FrameMaker can't.

Paul


Thanks. So it's another Adobe product.

They have so many products. But thanks.
  #118  
Old August 5th 13, 01:45 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
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Posts: 3,817
Default Help for Neighbor?

On 8/4/13 4:52 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:02:03 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

mechanic just doesn't seem to understand not everyone needs the bells
and whistles of a high end processor. :-(


No argument with that, you seem to overlook the obvious point that
when it comes to collaboration over the production of various
documents by groups of people who may not work in the same office or
for the same company, it pays to have standards and MS-Office is the
de facto standard tool these days. No-one here cares which tool you
use personally for your shopping lists, just as no-one cares what
car you drive.


No, I haven't overlooked that point. You insist on only referring the
the subset of users who need the same software, while I'm talking about
all users, which includes those that do not need the same software.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.4
Firefox 22.0
Thunderbird 17.0.7
LibreOffice 4.0.4.2
  #119  
Old August 5th 13, 02:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default Help for Neighbor?

xfile wrote:
On 8/5/2013 07:44, Paul wrote:
xfile wrote:
FrameMaker and FrameBuilder are examples of good tools for
collaborative document writing.

Is it something like PageMaker?

I remember many technical writers used PageMaker, but I haven't been
involved in technical writing for a long time.


It doesn't have the graphical finesse of PageMaker.
It would be mainly considered a document editor.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._screencap.png



For example, if you needed a gradient in a background
of something you've drawn, I would expect PageMaker
to be able to do it, while FrameMaker can't.

Paul


Thanks. So it's another Adobe product.

They have so many products. But thanks.


It didn't start life as an Adobe product.

We bought out first copy, when it was an independent company.

But Adobe bought them out.

Paul
  #120  
Old August 5th 13, 03:55 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Help for Neighbor?

But Adobe bought them out.

Buy out or merger and acquisition, sometimes, is the best way for
acquiring channels, customers, technologies (used for products) instead
of developing and building everything from ground up.

I wonder, sometimes, what would happen to Surface series and Windows 8
phone if MS purchased and used another brand name, such HTC or Nokia or
Blackberry, and marked it with their brand name instead of MS's brand
name, like Google purchased Moto Mobility for one of reasons.

But to use M&A, top management has to remove their egos and recognizes
that "it doesn't have to be our name." M&A are very common in consumer
product categories for using "brand portfolios" to cover different
channels, customers, and product categories. The goal is to win and
have the largest market share across different segments when one brand
name is impossible to achieve.

Well, that's irrelevant to Windows 8.

On 8/5/2013 09:11, Paul wrote:
xfile wrote:
On 8/5/2013 07:44, Paul wrote:
xfile wrote:
FrameMaker and FrameBuilder are examples of good tools for
collaborative document writing.

Is it something like PageMaker?

I remember many technical writers used PageMaker, but I haven't been
involved in technical writing for a long time.


It doesn't have the graphical finesse of PageMaker.
It would be mainly considered a document editor.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._screencap.png



For example, if you needed a gradient in a background
of something you've drawn, I would expect PageMaker
to be able to do it, while FrameMaker can't.

Paul


Thanks. So it's another Adobe product.

They have so many products. But thanks.


It didn't start life as an Adobe product.

We bought out first copy, when it was an independent company.

But Adobe bought them out.

Paul


 




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