good surge protector?

I have a laptop and a netbook both running WinXP and with a DSL connection
to the internet. I use both computers wirelessly in my home and have a
modem/router from my ISP, Frontier Communications (used to be Verizon).

A couple days ago my area had multiple power outages. I turned off the
computers right away. A couple hours later, when I turned them on and tried
to get to the internet, I couldn't--and the Internet light on my modem was
out. Frontier sent out a repairman with a new modem, which lit up properly.
(It took a call to tech support by the repairman to actually connect to the
internet again.)

I realize that I should have had the modem/router plugged into a surge
protector (the one I use for the laptop and printer is too far away from the
router). I also need to plug the netbook into a surge protector; it's far
away from everything else.

Any recommendations for a good surge protector that would work for both the
netbook and the modem/router (I'd buy two of them)?

Thank you!

Jo-Anne

On 04/03/2012 6:13 PM, Jo-Anne wrote:
I have a laptop and a netbook both running WinXP and with a DSL connection
to the internet. I use both computers wirelessly in my home and have a
modem/router from my ISP, Frontier Communications (used to be Verizon).

A couple days ago my area had multiple power outages. I turned off the
computers right away. A couple hours later, when I turned them on and tried
to get to the internet, I couldn't--and the Internet light on my modem was
out. Frontier sent out a repairman with a new modem, which lit up properly.
(It took a call to tech support by the repairman to actually connect to the
internet again.)

I realize that I should have had the modem/router plugged into a surge
protector (the one I use for the laptop and printer is too far away from the
router). I also need to plug the netbook into a surge protector; it's far
away from everything else.

Any recommendations for a good surge protector that would work for both the
netbook and the modem/router (I'd buy two of them)?

Surge protectors are a dime-a-dozen, I don't think you'll get a better
unit by spending more. If you get the interruptions frequently in your
area, then you should go for a UPS. For your modems, a cheap one should
be more than plenty.

Yousuf Khan

"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message
...
On 04/03/2012 6:13 PM, Jo-Anne wrote:
I have a laptop and a netbook both running WinXP and with a DSL
connection
to the internet. I use both computers wirelessly in my home and have a
modem/router from my ISP, Frontier Communications (used to be Verizon).

A couple days ago my area had multiple power outages. I turned off the
computers right away. A couple hours later, when I turned them on and
tried
to get to the internet, I couldn't--and the Internet light on my modem
was
out. Frontier sent out a repairman with a new modem, which lit up
properly.
(It took a call to tech support by the repairman to actually connect to
the
internet again.)

I realize that I should have had the modem/router plugged into a surge
protector (the one I use for the laptop and printer is too far away from
the
router). I also need to plug the netbook into a surge protector; it's far
away from everything else.

Any recommendations for a good surge protector that would work for both
the
netbook and the modem/router (I'd buy two of them)?

Surge protectors are a dime-a-dozen, I don't think you'll get a better
unit by spending more. If you get the interruptions frequently in your
area, then you should go for a UPS. For your modems, a cheap one should be
more than plenty.

Yousuf Khan


Thank you! There are so many to choose from. I guess I can go by reviews to
some degree, especially when there are lots of them and they're almost all
positive.

Jo-Anne

.."Jo-Anne" wrote in message
...

I realize that I should have had the modem/router plugged into a surge
protector (the one I use for the laptop and printer is too far away from
the router). I also need to plug the netbook into a surge protector;
it's far
away from everything else. . . .
There are so many to choose from. I guess I can go by reviews to some
degree, especially when there are lots of them and they're almost all
positive.

The two desktops networked here (where power outages
are frequent, almost one a month for the last couple of years)
are a Belkin UPS/surge protector upstairs, with the wireless
modem (about $50) and a large APC unit downstairs (because
I was given it by a friend and the battery has not yet died), both
satisfactory for 3 or 4 years.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa Canada)

"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
."Jo-Anne" wrote in message
...

I realize that I should have had the modem/router plugged into a surge
protector (the one I use for the laptop and printer is too far away
from the router). I also need to plug the netbook into a surge
protector; it's far
away from everything else. . . .
There are so many to choose from. I guess I can go by reviews to some
degree, especially when there are lots of them and they're almost all
positive.

The two desktops networked here (where power outages
are frequent, almost one a month for the last couple of years)
are a Belkin UPS/surge protector upstairs, with the wireless
modem (about $50) and a large APC unit downstairs (because
I was given it by a friend and the battery has not yet died), both
satisfactory for 3 or 4 years.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa Canada)



Thank you, Don! One thing I found discouraging from other responses is that
it appears you can't really tell if you're being protected until something
happens...

Jo-Anne

On Mar 16, 9:40 pm, "Jo-Anne" wrote:
One thing I found discouraging from other responses is that
it appears you can't really tell if you're being protected until something
happens...

Read spec numbers on that Belkin. It does not even claim to
protect hardware. We all learned in elementary school science about
conclusions based in observation. Fill the lake and life
spontaneously appears. That proves spontaneous reproduction? Or
maggots created by moldy bread? Both conclusions based only in
observation are called junk science. Nobody can say anything about
appliance protection only from observation. Especially when power
outages do not harm electronics. Junk science reasoning proves a
Belkin product did protection when even Belkin will not claim that
protection.

If an outage caused hardware damage, then all other unprotected
appliance were also damaged. How much to replace the stove, furnace,
clocks, TV, smoke detectors and bathroom GFCI. All not on
protectors. Using your reasoning, they must have been damaged.
Reality: all appliances already contain superior protection. You had
damage for other reasons. Observation has only resulted in erroneous
conclusions.

No facts support Don's conclusions. To be valid, he must list other
damaged appliances (clocks, door bell, TV, smoke detectors) that
failed due to no protection. Those were not damaged because outages
do not harm hardware. Ignoring other undamaged appliances justifies an
erroneous conclusion.

So, if your surge protectors did something, then how much did it
cost to replace the stove, dishwasher, smoke detectors, and furnace?
None of them had surge protectors. Using your reasoning, those must
be damaged. Those power strip protectors did nothing. Superior
protection in adjacent appliances did the protection. Read numbers on
your surge protector. It does not even claim to do the protection you
have only assumed.

Other more obvious reasons explain your damage. AT&T provides a
superb description of why DSL modems fail. Knowledge that comes from
spec numbers and from 100 years of science and experience.

In an early post, you suggested you should have had phone line
protection. But you did. It was installed for free. Another fact
you had to know before making conclusions. Any magic box adjacent to
an appliance does not do and does not claim to do relevant
protection. Even Don's Belkin does not do what he has only hoped it
would do. You know when you are protected by learning facts and
numbers. Start by asking. By defining what currently exists. By
listing from a protector you believe does protection. And asking what
is necessary to provide well proven (100+ year old) solutions.

Conclusions only from observation and without numbers are classic
junk science.

Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 04/03/2012 6:13 PM, Jo-Anne wrote:
I have a laptop and a netbook both running WinXP and with a DSL
connection
to the internet. I use both computers wirelessly in my home and have a
modem/router from my ISP, Frontier Communications (used to be Verizon).

A couple days ago my area had multiple power outages. I turned off the
computers right away. A couple hours later, when I turned them on and
tried
to get to the internet, I couldn't--and the Internet light on my modem
was
out. Frontier sent out a repairman with a new modem, which lit up
properly.
(It took a call to tech support by the repairman to actually connect
to the
internet again.)

I realize that I should have had the modem/router plugged into a surge
protector (the one I use for the laptop and printer is too far away
from the
router). I also need to plug the netbook into a surge protector; it's far
away from everything else.

Any recommendations for a good surge protector that would work for
both the
netbook and the modem/router (I'd buy two of them)?

Surge protectors are a dime-a-dozen, I don't think you'll get a better
unit by spending more. If you get the interruptions frequently in your
area, then you should go for a UPS. For your modems, a cheap one should
be more than plenty.

Yousuf Khan

I use the dime-a-dozen variety myself, but for an install back home,
I used one of these. I used this, so all the gear could be turned off
at once. This box has room for mounting screws, and I mounted it on the
side of the desk.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842111078

It has a pair of RJ-11 jacks on the side, for "passthru" protection of
a phone line. But on the home setup, all we had was dialup, and
I don't know whether this protection upsets ADSL frequencies or
not. But this might clip garbage coming in over a phone line.
(At the demarcation point in the basement, the phone line likely
has some of its own protection.)

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/42-111-078-Z03?$S640W$

In my ADSL setup here, I use a dime-a-dozen protector, with the
same style passthru RJ-11 protection, and it doesn't seem to affect
the ADSL at all. The protector was designed, before ADSL came along,
which is why I was a bit worried about it.

That Tripplite box has a 90 degree AC plug, for flush mount
behind furniture. Which can be a blessing or a curse, depending
on your setup.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 04/03/2012 6:13 PM, Jo-Anne wrote:
I have a laptop and a netbook both running WinXP and with a DSL
connection
to the internet. I use both computers wirelessly in my home and have a
modem/router from my ISP, Frontier Communications (used to be Verizon).

A couple days ago my area had multiple power outages. I turned off the
computers right away. A couple hours later, when I turned them on and
tried
to get to the internet, I couldn't--and the Internet light on my modem
was
out. Frontier sent out a repairman with a new modem, which lit up
properly.
(It took a call to tech support by the repairman to actually connect
to the
internet again.)

I realize that I should have had the modem/router plugged into a surge
protector (the one I use for the laptop and printer is too far away
from the
router). I also need to plug the netbook into a surge protector; it's
far
away from everything else.

Any recommendations for a good surge protector that would work for
both the
netbook and the modem/router (I'd buy two of them)?

Surge protectors are a dime-a-dozen, I don't think you'll get a better
unit by spending more. If you get the interruptions frequently in your
area, then you should go for a UPS. For your modems, a cheap one should
be more than plenty.

Yousuf Khan

I use the dime-a-dozen variety myself, but for an install back home,
I used one of these. I used this, so all the gear could be turned off
at once. This box has room for mounting screws, and I mounted it on the
side of the desk.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842111078

It has a pair of RJ-11 jacks on the side, for "passthru" protection of
a phone line. But on the home setup, all we had was dialup, and
I don't know whether this protection upsets ADSL frequencies or
not. But this might clip garbage coming in over a phone line.
(At the demarcation point in the basement, the phone line likely
has some of its own protection.)

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/42-111-078-Z03?$S640W$

In my ADSL setup here, I use a dime-a-dozen protector, with the
same style passthru RJ-11 protection, and it doesn't seem to affect
the ADSL at all. The protector was designed, before ADSL came along,
which is why I was a bit worried about it.

That Tripplite box has a 90 degree AC plug, for flush mount
behind furniture. Which can be a blessing or a curse, depending
on your setup.

Paul


Thank you, Paul! I plug my laptop, fax machine, and printer into the
4-outlet Tripp-Lite model just like the 6-outlet one you linked to at
Newegg. I've had it for at least a few years. No problems so far. So maybe I
should splurge and get another one for the modem/router and phone and a
cheapie for the netbook.

Jo-Anne

On Mar 5, 7:40 pm, "Jo-Anne" wrote:
In my ADSL setup here, I use a dime-a-dozen protector, with the
same style passthru RJ-11 protection, and it doesn't seem to affect
the ADSL at all. The protector was designed, before ADSL came along,
which is why I was a bit worried about it.

View manufacturer's spec numbers. The 'dime a dozen' protector
contains a protector circuit similar to other protectors selling for
$40 or $90. Don't take anyone's word for it. Consult the
manufacturer's spec numbers.

A $4 power strip with ten cent protector parts sells for $7 in Wal-
Mart. Or for over $100 as a Monster protector. The profit center
works because so many recommend it without even asking what a
protector does. And by ignoring those manufacturer’s specs.

You had multiple power outages. That means 120 volts became zero
volts. The protector does absolutely nothing until voltages exceed
330 volts. Again, don't take anyone's word for it. That let-through
voltage number is written on its box.

Protectors are for 120 volts going to thousands of volts. Power
outages are 120 volts dropping to zero volts. The protector would do
nothing but enrich its manufacturer.

BTW, did you know your modem was already plugged into a surge
protector? All DSL lines already have a superior protector installed
for free. Others should have known that before making a
recommendation. And should have referenced those spec numbers.

Other problems could explain your damage.

w_tom wrote:
On Mar 5, 7:40 pm, "Jo-Anne" wrote:
In my ADSL setup here, I use a dime-a-dozen protector, with the
same style passthru RJ-11 protection, and it doesn't seem to affect
the ADSL at all. The protector was designed, before ADSL came along,
which is why I was a bit worried about it.

View manufacturer's spec numbers. The 'dime a dozen' protector
contains a protector circuit similar to other protectors selling for
$40 or $90. Don't take anyone's word for it. Consult the
manufacturer's spec numbers.

A $4 power strip with ten cent protector parts sells for $7 in Wal-
Mart. Or for over $100 as a Monster protector. The profit center
works because so many recommend it without even asking what a
protector does. And by ignoring those manufacturer’s specs.

You had multiple power outages. That means 120 volts became zero
volts. The protector does absolutely nothing until voltages exceed
330 volts. Again, don't take anyone's word for it. That let-through
voltage number is written on its box.

Protectors are for 120 volts going to thousands of volts. Power
outages are 120 volts dropping to zero volts. The protector would do
nothing but enrich its manufacturer.

BTW, did you know your modem was already plugged into a surge
protector? All DSL lines already have a superior protector installed
for free. Others should have known that before making a
recommendation. And should have referenced those spec numbers.

Other problems could explain your damage.

That's not the point of the suggestion.

Jo-Anne asked where she could find a protector, and I pointed one out.

I didn't attempt to provide any analysis of the current damage event.
There is no evidence that I could see, from the description, that the
damaging event came in through the phone line. It might have come in
through the power line.

No solution is absolute, and then it's a question of which solutions
are better than nothing.

If you sit in your house, running on batteries or a Honda generator,
using Wifi for networking, that would be reasonably good, but
pretty impractical. Then it would take an EMP to knock you out.

*******

As for this statement

"All DSL lines already have a superior protector"

where is that located exactly, in a customer installed ADSL setup ?

The phone company does nothing to the line, between the remote (a block and
a half away) and the house, and the demarcation point (in my basement) hasn't
been changed either. It's unlike the telephone company, to do a "truck roll"
for a residential ADSL installation (so Jo-Anne isn't likely to have
extra premises equipment either), so no opportunity for installing anything.
The line is just as ready to be affected by external events, as it was
before you ordered ADSL. In my neighborhood, as near
as I can tell, the remote handles everything, as the passive wiring
pedestal was removed. Our phone lines, do travel on poles here,
so the path from the remote to my house, does take an aerial path.

Paul

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 18:40:17 -0600, "Jo-Anne"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message
...

I use the dime-a-dozen variety myself, but for an install back home,
I used one of these. I used this, so all the gear could be turned off
at once. This box has room for mounting screws, and I mounted it on the
side of the desk.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842111078

It has a pair of RJ-11 jacks on the side, for "passthru" protection of
a phone line. But on the home setup, all we had was dialup, and
I don't know whether this protection upsets ADSL frequencies or
not. But this might clip garbage coming in over a phone line.
(At the demarcation point in the basement, the phone line likely
has some of its own protection.)

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/42-111-078-Z03?$S640W$

In my ADSL setup here, I use a dime-a-dozen protector, with the
same style passthru RJ-11 protection, and it doesn't seem to affect
the ADSL at all. The protector was designed, before ADSL came along,
which is why I was a bit worried about it.

That Tripplite box has a 90 degree AC plug, for flush mount
behind furniture. Which can be a blessing or a curse, depending
on your setup.


Thank you, Paul! I plug my laptop, fax machine, and printer into the
4-outlet Tripp-Lite model just like the 6-outlet one you linked to at
Newegg. I've had it for at least a few years. No problems so far. So maybe I
should splurge and get another one for the modem/router and phone and a
cheapie for the netbook.

Keep in mind that the dime a dozen units typically get their
protection by using MOV's, Metal Oxide Varistors, and the MOV's
primarily provide protection from noise and spikes by absorbing it.
Thus, they get damaged over time, some quicker than others, depending
on what they've been subjected to. A unit that's a few years old may
be little more than an outlet strip by now, providing little or no
protection.

On Mar 5, 10:24 pm, Char Jackson wrote:
Keep in mind that the dime a dozen units typically get their
protection by using MOV's, Metal Oxide Varistors, and the MOV's
primarily provide protection from noise and spikes by absorbing it.

All power strip protectors use similar circuits and MOVs. Only
protectors that are grossly undersized (that are profit centers)
degrade with use. Properly installed protectors make direct lightning
strikes irrelevant and remain functional. Typically cost tens or 100
times less money. Why does so much advertising promote a power strip
protector? A $4 power strip with ten cent protector parts sells for
$30 or $100. It is a profit center.

Homes already have a superior protector where telco wires connect to
yours. That protector is even required by the electrical code and FCC
regulations. Has existed longer than most posters. However many who
made recommendations do not even know of this existing and superior
solution.

OP defined a power outage problem. No protector protects from power
outages. A superior protector is installed on phone lines for free.
Numbers that define this were posted earlier. Other and better
protection exists that also cost less money. But first, as with all
problems, the problem must be defined before a solution can be
implemented. A protector does not protect from power outages.

"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 18:40:17 -0600, "Jo-Anne"
wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message
...

I use the dime-a-dozen variety myself, but for an install back home,
I used one of these. I used this, so all the gear could be turned off
at once. This box has room for mounting screws, and I mounted it on the
side of the desk.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842111078

It has a pair of RJ-11 jacks on the side, for "passthru" protection of
a phone line. But on the home setup, all we had was dialup, and
I don't know whether this protection upsets ADSL frequencies or
not. But this might clip garbage coming in over a phone line.
(At the demarcation point in the basement, the phone line likely
has some of its own protection.)

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/42-111-078-Z03?$S640W$

In my ADSL setup here, I use a dime-a-dozen protector, with the
same style passthru RJ-11 protection, and it doesn't seem to affect
the ADSL at all. The protector was designed, before ADSL came along,
which is why I was a bit worried about it.

That Tripplite box has a 90 degree AC plug, for flush mount
behind furniture. Which can be a blessing or a curse, depending
on your setup.


Thank you, Paul! I plug my laptop, fax machine, and printer into the
4-outlet Tripp-Lite model just like the 6-outlet one you linked to at
Newegg. I've had it for at least a few years. No problems so far. So maybe
I
should splurge and get another one for the modem/router and phone and a
cheapie for the netbook.

Keep in mind that the dime a dozen units typically get their
protection by using MOV's, Metal Oxide Varistors, and the MOV's
primarily provide protection from noise and spikes by absorbing it.
Thus, they get damaged over time, some quicker than others, depending
on what they've been subjected to. A unit that's a few years old may
be little more than an outlet strip by now, providing little or no
protection.



Is there a way to tell if a surge protector is still protecting? My
Tripp-Lite is not a dime-a-dozen unit, but I've used it for several years. I
also have (but am not currently using) an old, rather expensive APC UPS. A
few years ago, when I thought it was still functional, a power surge
destroyed the fax machine and damaged the desktop computer plugged into it.
I replaced the batteries in the UPS, but I've been afraid to use it.

Jo-Anne

Jo-Anne