Does the .png image format have a text metadata field?

"Mayayana" on Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:49:12
-0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
It starts itself at boot, so you don't see what a resource
hog it is. It's forced on college students, so they end up
thinking Word = Windows.

God help you if you are used to another word processor. Or are
getting asked for help with someone's "paper" and they have to use
Word.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

"Mayayana" on Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:30:49
-0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

For me the emojis are similar. People can't be bothered
to write 3 words but they expect me to look up a tiny
image that seems to show a crying face with a donut?
Or maybe that's a spare tire? Is that even a face? Maybe
it's a dripping orange with a spare tire? And when I finally
figure it out it will probably mean "Oy".

Emojis are for semi-literate teenagers sending texts. I
don't see most of them in my browser. I just get little
boxes with the hex code for the emoji. (Imagine here that
you see a face with tongue sticking out.

Add to the problem that "social media" will translate the simple
smiley into a picture. I meant B-) not some picture! grumble
grumble, if I wanted hieroglyphs I'd write in Coptic. If I wanted
ideograms, I'd use Chinese.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

"Mayayana" on Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:49:12
-0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

It's fine if you use Word a lot and like it. It's great if
what you're doing needs to be printed out. For just about
any other purpose it's like the old saying: If all you
have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail. I use
Libre Office when necessary, for things like work receipts.
But I would never send a receipt to a customer as doc or
docx or even RTF. There's no reason to expect they can
read that. Those are limited MS formats. I always convert
to PDF before sending.

I have to generate a quarterly report. Once that's done, and
"printed to pdf", I delete the WP documents.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| Newspapers and magazines use italic, fonts - even images, for that
| matter! Even bold and underline, though granted not as much as WP
| documents.

Yes. Save them if you find them useful. I don't. Most
webpages are so badly designed these days that I just
read articles with CSS disabled, anyway. 13px Verdana.
About the same that I use in Notepad. So reading the
article in Notepad is usually more comfortable for me.

I use a monospaced font in Notepad+ - hang on, I'll check what ...
Courier New, Regular, 9. As I do in news and email ... Courier New, 9,
Bold.

| What kind of nut would use wingdings?
|
| It's pretty universal these days - been with Windows since at least '95,
| I think - so why not use it? It contains a lot of genuinely useful
| symbols, and being TrueType they scale nicely. The example above is a
| trivial one: using ")" in Wingdings will give a little telephone symbol,
| which some people like to use as just a little light relief before their
| telephone number.

You MS Office people are so parochial. Wingdings
came out in several versions, made by MS. For years, if
I remember correctly, MS Word got later versions than
Windows did. So Word users merrily sent their astrological
symbols to each other, having no idea it was a limited font.
And they sent them to Mac users, with no idea Mac users
couldn't see them.

I think it's more or less settled down by now. (I don't know if Mac has
it yet.)

I don't see a telephone or a ")" above. It wouldn't matter,
anyway. I'm reading in plain text and only see what Verdana
can print. That's an example of the problem with wingdings.

As am I; what I see four lines above this one (i. e. in what you typed)
is a close bracket (shifted 0 on this keyboard) in quotes, which is what
I typed in the original post. I just happen to know some of the
mappings, such as the one for the telephone symbol. [If you're not even
seeing the close bracket, which is what you appear to be saying, then
something _is_ wrong, but I don't think you meant that.]

They're fine if you're going to print it out. But you can't
assume anything being universal online or in software. Apparently
you assumed here that I'm reading newsgroups as HTML.
But why would I do that?

No, I wasn't. I wasn't expecting you to see a telephone. I was just
saying that _when in Word_ (or similar), some people might type a ),
then convert it to Wingdings - and, I agree, should only do so if
they're going to print it (or send it to someone they know has Word).

For me the emojis are similar. People can't be bothered
to write 3 words but they expect me to look up a tiny
image that seems to show a crying face with a donut?
Or maybe that's a spare tire? Is that even a face? Maybe
it's a dripping orange with a spare tire? And when I finally
figure it out it will probably mean "Oy".

We're in different levels of the same attitude. I accept the three basic
ones - smiley, frowny (though I've not heard anyone else call it that),
and one in between: those three I can "see" without much thought. I
don't understand the many variations (things like "tongue sticking out
while winking"). And I'm quite happy to see them as three ASCII
characters, not a little picture (see next post for more on that!). You
don't even accept those three; fair enough.

Emojis are for semi-literate teenagers sending texts. I
don't see most of them in my browser. I just get little
boxes with the hex code for the emoji. (Imagine here that
you see a face with tongue sticking out.

(-:. Yes, I've encountered those hex-code boxes.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"This situation absolutely requires a really futile and stoopid gesture be done
on somebody's part." "We're just the guys to do it." Eric "Otter" Stratton (Tim
Matheson) and John "Bluto" Blutarsky (John Belushi) - N. L's Animal House
(1978)

In message , pyotr
filipivich writes:
[]
Add to the problem that "social media" will translate the simple
smiley into a picture. I meant B-) not some picture! grumble
grumble, if I wanted hieroglyphs I'd write in Coptic. If I wanted
ideograms, I'd use Chinese.

There was a bit of a scandal a year or three ago about that: not only
were they being converted into a picture, but they were actually being
sent as a picture attachment. Which upped the amount of data
considerably; probably not noticeable nowadays, but when the fuss
happened, it was people on holiday abroad, who found their 'phone bills
were huge when they got home, as data rates for use abroad were then
very high (or maybe were for those whose contracts dropped to something
much more limited abroad, incurring high data charges when they thought
they were only sending texts).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"This situation absolutely requires a really futile and stoopid gesture be done
on somebody's part." "We're just the guys to do it." Eric "Otter" Stratton (Tim
Matheson) and John "Bluto" Blutarsky (John Belushi) - N. L's Animal House
(1978)

(Now word-processor use)

In message , Mayayana
writes:
[]
Letters that need formatting and maybe graphics,
and will be printed. I never have occasion otherwise
to fire up a 400 MB monstrosity of bloat and complexity.

In my experience, people who use MS Office get
accustomed to it and become very profficient with Word.
As a result they tend to overuse it and not realize
that everyone isn't sitting in front of Word.

It starts itself at boot, so you don't see what a resource

Not on my machine it doesn't! But yes, I know what you mean; it probably
_defaults_ to that setting. As IE does, and you can't stop that AFAIK
(you could up to '98SE, by using 98lite or ieradicator).

hog it is. It's forced on college students, so they end up
thinking Word = Windows. It hides the location of files.

Yes, that's infuriating. It even hides its own setting for where things
(such as templates) are - it can be found in the settings, but you have
to dig quite hard.

It encourages you to use it for email, even though it
creates monstrous HTML emails with nonsense tags
starting with "MSO", which are invisible except to
people reading their email in MS Office. It's a contained,

It's TERRIBLE as an HTML editor: I haven't come across the MSO tags, but
it loves to do things like
{DIV}{DIV}{DIV}{DIV}+nbsp:{/DIV}{/DIV}{/DIV}{/DIV} (punctuation
characters deliberately wrong).

parochial world of MS Office functionality and convenience,
designed to be seamlessly usable for people who work in
offices doing word processing, but also designed in such a
way that someone can be a serviceable office worker
without knowing how to use their computer.

Couldn't agree more.

I get people sending me email from Word. People send me
notes as doc or docx. It's like dealing with people from
AOL or people using Macs. They don't actually know how
to use a computer because all they've ever used is MS
Word. So they don't realize that Word is not the same thing
as Windows, and that many people can't even open their

It's a matter of degree. I use an older news/mail client that can't
display properly a lot of other things too, including a lot of bad HTML
(it does have a button to open emails in a browser, which I occasionally
use).

files. And those other people probably have no idea why
they can't open the files. So it does no good that Libre
Office or free MS Office readers are available.

Another variation is "put your reply above this line" - I've come across
at least two companies who don't (I think! The users aren't capable of
clarifying) even _see_ any reply text that's _not_ above that line.

(Lately I've noticed that Google Docs is supplanting
MS Word. People send links and expect me to sign up
with Google so that I can read their file. Huh?! They
don't understand how crazy that is. Signing up and signing
in with Google was effortless, so what's my problem?)

(-: (Effortless if you just accept conditions boxes. Far from only
Google.)

It's fine if you use Word a lot and like it. It's great if

It's evolved to the level that it's not bad. It's even quite powerful in
some ways - but extremely quirky; I know hardly anyone who can use its
subheading style controls, for example.

what you're doing needs to be printed out. For just about
any other purpose it's like the old saying: If all you
have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail. I use
Libre Office when necessary, for things like work receipts.
But I would never send a receipt to a customer as doc or
docx or even RTF. There's no reason to expect they can
read that. Those are limited MS formats. I always convert
to PDF before sending.

Me too. PDF is at least still pretty universally supported. (I know
there are plenty who'll argue with that, too. But it's usable a lot more
than .rtf, .doc, or - especially - .docx .)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"This situation absolutely requires a really futile and stoopid gesture be done
on somebody's part." "We're just the guys to do it." Eric "Otter" Stratton (Tim
Matheson) and John "Bluto" Blutarsky (John Belushi) - N. L's Animal House
(1978)

On 2/21/2020 11:44 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
(Now word-processor use)

In message , Mayayana
writes:
[]
Letters that need formatting and maybe graphics,
and will be printed. I never have occasion otherwise
to fire up a 400 MB monstrosity of bloat and complexity.

In my experience, people who use MS Office get
accustomed to it and become very profficient with Word.
As a result they tend to overuse it and not realize
that everyone isn't sitting in front of Word.

It starts itself at boot, so you don't see what a resource

Not on my machine it doesn't!



I was about to post the same thing, but you beat me too it.


I agree with almost everything else Mayayana posted, quoted below.
However, although Microsoft Word is installed here, I almost never run
it. I think WordPerfect is a much better word processor, and that's what
I use.


But yes, I know what you mean; it probably
_defaults_ to that setting. As IE does, and you can't stop that AFAIK
(you could up to '98SE, by using 98lite or ieradicator).

hog it is. It's forced on college students, so they end up
thinking Word = Windows. It hides the location of files.

Yes, that's infuriating. It even hides its own setting for where things
(such as templates) are - it can be found in the settings, but you have
to dig quite hard.

It encourages you to use it for email, even though it
creates monstrous HTML emails with nonsense tags
starting with "MSO", which are invisible except to
people reading their email in MS Office. It's a contained,

It's TERRIBLE as an HTML editor: I haven't come across the MSO tags, but
it loves to do things like
{DIV}{DIV}{DIV}{DIV}+nbsp:{/DIV}{/DIV}{/DIV}{/DIV} (punctuation
characters deliberately wrong).

parochial world of MS Office functionality and convenience,
designed to be seamlessly usable for people who work in
offices doing word processing, but also designed in such a
way that someone can be a serviceable office worker
without knowing how to use their computer.

Couldn't agree more.

I get people sending me email from Word. People send me
notes as doc or docx. It's like dealing with people from
AOL or people using Macs. They don't actually know how
to use a computer because all they've ever used is MS
Word. So they don't realize that Word is not the same thing
as Windows, and that many people can't even open their

It's a matter of degree. I use an older news/mail client that can't
display properly a lot of other things too, including a lot of bad HTML
(it does have a button to open emails in a browser, which I occasionally
use).

files. And those other people probably have no idea why
they can't open the files. So it does no good that Libre
Office or free MS Office readers are available.

Another variation is "put your reply above this line" - I've come across
at least two companies who don't (I think! The users aren't capable of
clarifying) even _see_ any reply text that's _not_ above that line.

(Lately I've noticed that Google Docs is supplanting
MS Word. People send links and expect me to sign up
with Google so that I can read their file. Huh?! They
don't understand how crazy that is. Signing up and signing
in with Google was effortless, so what's my problem?)

(-: (Effortless if you just accept conditions boxes. Far from only
Google.)

It's fine if you use Word a lot and like it. It's great if

It's evolved to the level that it's not bad. It's even quite powerful in
some ways - but extremely quirky; I know hardly anyone who can use its
subheading style controls, for example.

what you're doing needs to be printed out. For just about
any other purpose it's like the old saying: If all you
have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail. I use
Libre Office when necessary, for things like work receipts.
But I would never send a receipt to a customer as doc or
docx or even RTF. There's no reason to expect they can
read that. Those are limited MS formats. I always convert
to PDF before sending.

Me too. PDF is at least still pretty universally supported. (I know
there are plenty who'll argue with that, too. But it's usable a lot more
than .rtf, .doc, or - especially - .docx .)




--
Ken

On 2/21/2020 11:44 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
(Now word-processor use)

In message , Mayayana
writes:

what you're doing needs to be printed out. For just about any other
purpose it's like the old saying: If all you have is a hammer then
everything looks like a nail. I use Libre Office when necessary,
for things like work receipts. But I would never send a receipt to
a customer as doc or docx or even RTF. There's no reason to expect
they can read that. Those are limited MS formats. I always convert
to PDF before sending.

Me too. PDF is at least still pretty universally supported. (I know
there are plenty who'll argue with that, too.



Universal as pdf is, there are still lots of people around who have no
pdf software, and can't read a pdf file.


But it's usable a lot more than .rtf,


?? Anybody running Windows can open an rtf file. WordPad comes with
Windows, and it can do it. And almost every word processor can too.


.doc,


Most word processors, even competitors to Word, can open them.


or - especially - .docx .)


Older versions of Word can't read .docx, but that problem is easily
overcome. A google search quickly finds many ways.

--
Ken

In article , Ken Blake
wrote:

Me too. PDF is at least still pretty universally supported. (I know
there are plenty who'll argue with that, too.


Universal as pdf is, there are still lots of people around who have no
pdf software, and can't read a pdf file.

not that many, but for the few who can't, it's trivial to install
something that can read it, which they should have anyway because pdf
is so widely used.

But it's usable a lot more than .rtf,


?? Anybody running Windows can open an rtf file. WordPad comes with
Windows, and it can do it. And almost every word processor can too.

not everyone uses windows.

the most popular operating system is android.

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 09:51:59 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Mayayana" on Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:49:12
-0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
It starts itself at boot, so you don't see what a resource
hog it is. It's forced on college students, so they end up
thinking Word = Windows.

God help you if you are used to another word processor. Or are
getting asked for help with someone's "paper" and they have to use
Word.

In the business world, MS Office seems to be the de facto standard. I visit
2 or 3 different workplaces around the country every week and it's
extremely seldom that I see anything other than MSO. Interestingly, one of
the places where I recently made a return visit has migrated from MSO to
Google Docs. Understandably, no one is happy.

Char Jackson on Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:22:16 -0600
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 09:51:59 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Mayayana" on Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:49:12
-0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
It starts itself at boot, so you don't see what a resource
hog it is. It's forced on college students, so they end up
thinking Word = Windows.

God help you if you are used to another word processor. Or are
getting asked for help with someone's "paper" and they have to use
Word.

In the business world, MS Office seems to be the de facto standard. I visit
2 or 3 different workplaces around the country every week and it's
extremely seldom that I see anything other than MSO. Interestingly, one of
the places where I recently made a return visit has migrated from MSO to
Google Docs. Understandably, no one is happy.

I am under the impression that WordPerfect is the choice for legal
offices. Getting multiple sections of a legal brief into one master
document, and all of them styled "correctly" seems to be the big edge.
I thought about migrating to Word when I went back to college. But
apparently MSW and subdocuments is a case you've either had your
sub-documents corrupted, or you haven't had that happen yet.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:43:43 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Char Jackson on Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:22:16 -0600
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 09:51:59 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Mayayana" on Fri, 21 Feb 2020 08:49:12
-0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
It starts itself at boot, so you don't see what a resource
hog it is. It's forced on college students, so they end up
thinking Word = Windows.

God help you if you are used to another word processor. Or are
getting asked for help with someone's "paper" and they have to use
Word.

In the business world, MS Office seems to be the de facto standard. I visit
2 or 3 different workplaces around the country every week and it's
extremely seldom that I see anything other than MSO. Interestingly, one of
the places where I recently made a return visit has migrated from MSO to
Google Docs. Understandably, no one is happy.

I am under the impression that WordPerfect is the choice for legal
offices.

I think it was, in the 90's and the 00's. I don't think so anymore, but my
sample size is too small.

Getting multiple sections of a legal brief into one master
document, and all of them styled "correctly" seems to be the big edge.

I'm not sure why that would be a problem.

I thought about migrating to Word when I went back to college. But
apparently MSW and subdocuments is a case you've either had your
sub-documents corrupted, or you haven't had that happen yet.

I've not only not had that happen, I didn't even know it was a thing.

With Outlook, sometimes people talk about a corrupted .pst file. Same as
above, I've never had that happen and don't personally know of anyone who
has had it happen. Still, the stories persist, so I guess it's a thing.

"Char Jackson" wrote

| In the business world, MS Office seems to be the de facto standard. I
visit
| 2 or 3 different workplaces around the country every week and it's
| extremely seldom that I see anything other than MSO. Interestingly, one of
| the places where I recently made a return visit has migrated from MSO to
| Google Docs. Understandably, no one is happy.
|

That's also happening in colleges. Going from docx
to Google docs links. And according to news about
the new NM lawsuit, Google have also taken over in
public schools.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| It starts itself at boot, so you don't see what a resource
|
| Not on my machine it doesn't!

Are you sure about that? I've never seen a case where
the bulk of it wasn't pre-loaded. I'd be surprised if you
can even stop that.

With IE it's a little different. It's so integrated that many
of those libraries have to load, anyway.

On 2/21/2020 4:43 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

In the business world, MS Office seems to be the de facto standard. I visit
2 or 3 different workplaces around the country every week and it's
extremely seldom that I see anything other than MSO. Interestingly, one of
the places where I recently made a return visit has migrated from MSO to
Google Docs. Understandably, no one is happy.

I am under the impression that WordPerfect is the choice for legal
offices.


No, it's not. It was, long ago. But WordPerfect 6.0 was so laden with
bugs that most legal offices abandoned it then, and went to Word. 6.1
fixed most of the bugs, but it came out too late and WordPerfect,
despite its being much better than Word in my opinion, never regained
its market share.



--
Ken