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Recommend data recovery company?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 21st 18, 05:09 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10
B00ze
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 472
Default Recommend data recovery company?

Good day.

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO problems in
SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it can't read
anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's wrong. Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying. Have
another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters myself;
apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I could
mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other) rendering the
whole thing un-readable. Was planning to move the data off but kept
delaying since it showed no sign of problems...

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience with one
and can recommend?

I'm also curious about how they recover drives if not by using another
of the same model (where they hell how they going to find one as old as
mine, and can they really keep one of each model of ALL drives?) If you
can enlighten me on that too, would be great.

Thank you.
Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo "Live Long And Suffer" -Ancient Vulcan Curse.

Ads
  #2  
Old April 21st 18, 05:47 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Recommend data recovery company?

In article , B00ze
wrote:

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO problems in
SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it can't read
anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's wrong.


what specifically is smart showing? do you have more than a pass/fail?

Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying. Have
another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters myself;
apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I could
mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other) rendering the
whole thing un-readable.


swapping controllers (which is what i assume you mean by moving
platters) won't make a difference and risks making things worse.

Was planning to move the data off but kept
delaying since it showed no sign of problems...


all drives fail. the question is when. 15 years is *much* longer than
normal. consider yourself lucky it lasted that long. you were on
borrowed time. unfortunately, your luck ran out, and without a backup,
you're in the situation you're in.

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience with one
and can recommend?


without question, drive savers:
https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery.com

they aren't cheap (none of the good ones are), but if for some reason
they can't recover the drive (possible, but highly unlikely), you don't
pay anything.

a clicking drive is relatively easy compared to a computer melting in a
fire or being under water for a couple of days:
https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery....-bizarre-disk-
asters/

I'm also curious about how they recover drives if not by using another
of the same model (where they hell how they going to find one as old as
mine, and can they really keep one of each model of ALL drives?) If you
can enlighten me on that too, would be great.


they don't need one for each model drive and the controller isn't what
usually fails.
  #3  
Old April 21st 18, 06:25 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Recommend data recovery company?

In article , Good Guy
wrote:

I would try removing from the machine and putting in a USB enclosure and
try using File explorer to recover as much as possible.


the clicking is a bad sign and isn't going to magically stop if it's in
a usb enclosure.

I agree 15 years is a very long time but Hard Drives do lasts longer if
enough care is taken not to misuse them.


it's not a question of misuse. moving parts eventually wear out.

I am using one that I bought
in 2005 and is still working. It is only 1TB but I intend to remove it
and install a 2TB NAS drive. I like using NAS drives in Desktops!!!


you must also like time machines, since 1tb drives first appeared in
2007:

https://www.techradar.com/news/digit...ng/ces-2007-wo
rld-s-first-1tb-hard-drive-148723
  #4  
Old April 21st 18, 07:40 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Recommend data recovery company?

B00ze wrote:
Good day.

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO problems in
SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it can't read
anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's wrong. Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying. Have
another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters myself;
apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I could
mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other) rendering the
whole thing un-readable. Was planning to move the data off but kept
delaying since it showed no sign of problems...

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience with one
and can recommend?

I'm also curious about how they recover drives if not by using another
of the same model (where they hell how they going to find one as old as
mine, and can they really keep one of each model of ALL drives?) If you
can enlighten me on that too, would be great.

Thank you.
Best Regards,


The big-name companies are listed here.

https://support.wdc.com/warranty/dat...ericas&lang=en

*******

And you can find sites with chit-chat about recovery.

https://www.data-medics.com/forum/wd...re58-t746.html

And there is gear people hint at, but don't describe in detail.
I even found a site in India, selling things like "head stack
holders" for when you change out a head stack. If you want to
get into the business, there's always someone selling the
bits and pieces needed.

http://www.acelaboratory.com/pc3000.udma.php

One interesting tidbit, is there is a three wire TTL level
serial port on the controller board. Which accepts a cryptic
language of some sort (parameter list, comma separated), There
is at least one web page, which describes temporarily
interrupting some electrical connections on a drive,
issuing a couple commands into that serial port, and actually
recovering a drive where the firmware has damaged a data
structure stored in the Service Area. That was the first hint
I got, that a hard drive has an interface like some home
routers do. And it's not a port that responds to "help" either :-)

*******

An industry practice seems to be "no charge unless I
recover your data". You'd probably have to pay for shipping
in cases where you want the carcass back, if they fail
at the task.

I've never used data recovery myself, so have not gone through
the selection process of picking a repair/recovery facility. My
phone book has three entries, claiming to be local service, but
my guess is they just mail your drive to a larger facility somewhere.
The listing for Florida, had maybe 30-40 providers. That's a lot
of basements, with glove boxes in them...

They should really be using a Class 100 or Class 10 Clean Room or
Air Curtain for this work. But there are also glove boxes with
HEPA air supplies, for doing the work. I think you could only get
away with sloppy cleanliness, on the old drives (the ones with
10u flying height).

And I think it'll be interesting, when someone asks this question,
and he has a Helium drive. Who can handle one of those ? That
will take a rocket scientist, as the HDA has a seal to keep the
Helium in. What a mess that's going to be. Do they use a can
opener on those ? :-) Conventional air-filled drives with breather
holes, are a lot easier to open up (the breather hole has a HEPA
filter underneath the cover). There is no "vacuum" inside
a hard drive, as the heads actually "fly" on a cushion of
some gas, whether it's 1 ATM air, or it's helium.

Paul
  #5  
Old April 21st 18, 11:55 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Recommend data recovery company?

In article , Paul
wrote:

And I think it'll be interesting, when someone asks this question,
and he has a Helium drive. Who can handle one of those ? That
will take a rocket scientist, as the HDA has a seal to keep the
Helium in. What a mess that's going to be.


it won't be a mess at all nor will it take a rocket scientist.

drivesavers has been able to recover helium drives for nearly four
years, only about one year after helium drives were first introduced.

https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery....avers-data-rec
overy-services-now-available-for-helium-hard-disk-drives/
NOVATO, Calif. * August 28, 2014** DriveSavers, the worldwide leader
in*data recovery,*eDiscovery*and*digital forensic solutions,
announced today data recovery services for helium-filled hard disk
drives (HDD) are now available. DriveSavers Data Recovery experts are
available 24/7 to help users recover files from drives should data
loss occur while utilizing this recent technological development.

they also can recover failed ssds, which is a *lot* more difficult than
spinning rust.
  #6  
Old April 21st 18, 12:15 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Zaidy036[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Recommend data recovery company?

nospam wrote:
In article , Paul
wrote:

And I think it'll be interesting, when someone asks this question,
and he has a Helium drive. Who can handle one of those ? That
will take a rocket scientist, as the HDA has a seal to keep the
Helium in. What a mess that's going to be.


it won't be a mess at all nor will it take a rocket scientist.

drivesavers has been able to recover helium drives for nearly four
years, only about one year after helium drives were first introduced.

https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery....avers-data-rec
overy-services-now-available-for-helium-hard-disk-drives/
NOVATO, Calif. Â* August 28, 2014Â*Â* DriveSavers, the worldwide leader
inÂ*data recovery,Â*eDiscoveryÂ*andÂ*digital forensic solutions,
announced today data recovery services for helium-filled hard disk
drives (HDD) are now available. DriveSavers Data Recovery experts are
available 24/7 to help users recover files from drives should data
loss occur while utilizing this recent technological development.

they also can recover failed ssds, which is a *lot* more difficult than
spinning rust.


One last effort?
Place drive in zip lock bag overnight in freezer. Quickly attach to PC and
try to transfer files.

--
Zaidy036
  #7  
Old April 21st 18, 12:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Recommend data recovery company?

In article , Zaidy036
wrote:

One last effort?
Place drive in zip lock bag overnight in freezer. Quickly attach to PC and
try to transfer files.


do *not* even think about doing that if the data is at all valuable.
  #8  
Old April 21st 18, 01:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jonathan N. Little[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,133
Default Recommend data recovery company?

nospam wrote:
In article , Good Guy
wrote:

I would try removing from the machine and putting in a USB enclosure and
try using File explorer to recover as much as possible.


the clicking is a bad sign and isn't going to magically stop if it's in
a usb enclosure.


Agreed. That is the sound of a bad controller. Data recovery is VERY
expensive. Years ago a local business loss a drive after and send drive
to OnTrack and was nearly 6K for 3GB of data and this was 15 years ago.


I agree 15 years is a very long time but Hard Drives do lasts longer if
enough care is taken not to misuse them.



Platters can lose data from just sitting over the years, but that is not
OPs issue. Definite sign of bad controller. Options a

1) You have backup right? (best option)
2) Data recovery (very expensive option)
3) Get another drive of the same model that works and swap platters.
(not easy on many aspects).

I have done #3. First it will be hard to find another 15 year old drive.
I was lucky to have several on hand. It requires that you CAREFULLY
disassemble both drives. Requires micro torx drivers and great care.
Hardest part is removing the the head arm without scratching your
platters. You have to get it out of the way to swap platters. The rare
earth magnets are VERY strong. Then you have to connect it up, cross
fingers and if lucky start dumping data as fast as you can. I do not
bother putting cover back on just trying to dump data to good drive as
fast as possible. That said, odds of success a small, but if #1 & #2 are
not possible what do you have to lose?


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
  #9  
Old April 21st 18, 01:15 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jonathan N. Little[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,133
Default Recommend data recovery company?

Zaidy036 wrote:
One last effort?
Place drive in zip lock bag overnight in freezer. Quickly attach to PC and
try to transfer files.


Believe or not I have done that and is sometimes works.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
  #10  
Old April 21st 18, 01:23 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Art Todesco
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 330
Default Recommend data recovery company?

On 4/21/2018 8:15 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Zaidy036 wrote:
One last effort?
Place drive in zip lock bag overnight in freezer. Quickly attach to PC
and
try to transfer files.


Believe or not I have done that and is sometimes works.

I too have had luck doing that. And, I told a friend who told some
other clients and they all seemed to have success. I think I might try
a USB to IDE adapter and put the whole thing in a plastic bag in the
fridge to see if that works. Then graduate to the freezer if necessary.
  #11  
Old April 21st 18, 01:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Recommend data recovery company?

Jonathan N. Little wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Good Guy
wrote:

I would try removing from the machine and putting in a USB enclosure and
try using File explorer to recover as much as possible.


the clicking is a bad sign and isn't going to magically stop if it's in
a usb enclosure.


Agreed. That is the sound of a bad controller. Data recovery is VERY
expensive. Years ago a local business loss a drive after and send drive
to OnTrack and was nearly 6K for 3GB of data and this was 15 years ago.


I agree 15 years is a very long time but Hard Drives do lasts longer if
enough care is taken not to misuse them.



Platters can lose data from just sitting over the years, but that is not
OPs issue. Definite sign of bad controller. Options a

1) You have backup right? (best option)
2) Data recovery (very expensive option)
3) Get another drive of the same model that works and swap platters.
(not easy on many aspects).

I have done #3. First it will be hard to find another 15 year old drive.
I was lucky to have several on hand. It requires that you CAREFULLY
disassemble both drives. Requires micro torx drivers and great care.
Hardest part is removing the the head arm without scratching your
platters. You have to get it out of the way to swap platters. The rare
earth magnets are VERY strong. Then you have to connect it up, cross
fingers and if lucky start dumping data as fast as you can. I do not
bother putting cover back on just trying to dump data to good drive as
fast as possible. That said, odds of success a small, but if #1 & #2 are
not possible what do you have to lose?


The price of data recovery has come down over the years.

The price is proportional to the amount of effort put into it.
In some cases, recovery is achieved without disassembly, in
which case the price charged still gives a very healthy profit.

If the drive responds and gives the ID string, that proves that
quite a bit of the drive is working.

The controller only contains a bootstrap code, and the controller
has to move the heads out and read the Service Area to become
fully functional. The firmware (for ATA command set) is loaded
on the Service Area, as well as data structures for sector
sparing and so on.

If the drive will ID itself, that means the SA reads OK.

The drive has the option of running an internal SMART short
test, which could cause a series of accesses not under
the users control. Attempts to recalibrate, banging the
heads against the stops, might have actually been triggered
by some early SMART activity.

If a head was bad (say, one of eight heads), the drive
might stumble during the SMART test, but succeed when reading
the SA. There's no particular reason the SA has to take up a
full cylinder of space and require all heads to be functional
to get it loaded.

Before doing anything, I'd be running the exact make and model
number through Google, to see what's known about fault modes.

Some of the older drives (my two dead Maxtor 40GB drives) were
*******s when it came time to fail. From first symptoms, to
non-responsive (dead), only took 24 hours or less, which means your
"execution" during that interval had to be flawless if you wanted
your data back for free. And checking the history of a drive,
may indicate how they perform during that time.

Sometimes even the data recovery sites, keep a web page for
specific models with "noteworthy" failure modes. Like the
drives where the motor controller burns out (giving the
impression the motor controller chip simply wasn't
designed properly in the first place).

If the spindle is stuck (FDB motor lost lubricant and the
spindle seized up), the motor controller is uses to "pulse"
the spindle to try to free it up. This gives a characteristic
noise. And the pattern applied also doesn't try to burn out
the motor controller - the motor controller is designed
for a current flow profile, in a sense being current
limited. It'll try for some number of seconds, before
giving up.

Paul
  #12  
Old April 21st 18, 02:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Recommend data recovery company?

In article , Paul
wrote:


The price of data recovery has come down over the years.


no it hasn't. prices have gone up because recovery is more complex than
it once was for several reasons, including significantly higher data
density and more advanced drive technology, including smr and helium
drives, as well as the amount of data to recover being *much* greater.
  #13  
Old April 21st 18, 02:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Recommend data recovery company?

In article , Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

I would try removing from the machine and putting in a USB enclosure and
try using File explorer to recover as much as possible.


the clicking is a bad sign and isn't going to magically stop if it's in
a usb enclosure.


Agreed. That is the sound of a bad controller.


no it isn't. if the controller failed, it wouldn't be making any sounds.

Data recovery is VERY
expensive.


that's because it's *very* difficult to do properly, particularly when
the drive has a mechanical failure.

Years ago a local business loss a drive after and send drive
to OnTrack and was nearly 6K for 3GB of data and this was 15 years ago.


that price sounds about right.


1) You have backup right? (best option)
2) Data recovery (very expensive option)
3) Get another drive of the same model that works and swap platters.
(not easy on many aspects).

I have done #3. First it will be hard to find another 15 year old drive.
I was lucky to have several on hand. It requires that you CAREFULLY
disassemble both drives. Requires micro torx drivers and great care.
Hardest part is removing the the head arm without scratching your
platters.


doing that outside of a clean room is an incredibly bad idea. much,
much worse than the freezer idea.
  #14  
Old April 21st 18, 02:02 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Recommend data recovery company?

In article , Jonathan N. Little
wrote:

Place drive in zip lock bag overnight in freezer. Quickly attach to PC and
try to transfer files.


Believe or not I have done that and is sometimes works.


more often, it makes it worse. you were lucky.

it's a *very* bad idea for all sorts of reasons. ask the drive recovery
companies how many drives they get from people who thought they could
do it themselves by freezing them.

https://www.gillware.com/blog/data-r...eezer-data-rec
overy-myth/
Just like pseudoscience in the world of medicine, the freezer trick
³works² just barely often enough to encourage people to spread the
idea to friends and neighbors. And when it ³works² it is only because
the drive exhibits intermittent behavior. There¹s a 99.9% chance that
not putting it in the freezer also would have resulted in the same
data recovery outcome.
....
When a failed drive comes out of the freezer and works again, it¹s
only a matter of luck. Exposure to cold will not restore a dead
sector¹s magnetic field or fix a corrupted partition table. It won¹t
make blind read/write heads suddenly see, nor will it salve the burn
on a fried control board. Quite frankly, people with freezer trick
³success stories² are just lucky they did not make their hard drives¹
problems worse.
  #15  
Old April 21st 18, 03:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Recommend data recovery company?

B00ze wrote:

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO problems in
SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it can't read
anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's wrong. Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying. Have
another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters myself;
apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I could
mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other) rendering the
whole thing un-readable. Was planning to move the data off but kept
delaying since it showed no sign of problems...

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience with one
and can recommend?


How much are you willing to spend? Could be a few hundred dollars or a
couple thousand depending on whether advanced (expensive) software could
be used or they have to disassemble the drive in a clean room and use
special equipment to read the magnetic dipoles from the platters.

When my aunt found out it would cost $1500 to recover old data files
from her defective HDD, she decided that old data wasn't really worth
that much. Also, it is highly unlikely that they can recover 100% of
the data from the platters. With luck being against you, likely the
majority of the files you want to recover will be unrecoverable.

nospam mentioned DriveSavers. They seem to be about what was estimated
to rescue data from my aunt's HDD and the company name sounds familiar.

https://www.geek.com/chips/drivesave...-drive-574764/
"Pricing is determined by the drive capacity, complexity and
completeness of the data recovery. The cost for recovering data from a
drive with severe media damage, like mine, is about $1900. An average
single drive data recovery costs about $1500."

https://acsdata.com/drivesavers-data-recovery/

That has ACS extolling DriveSavers, a competitor.

Considering the how expensive it is to use physical recovery services, I
find regular scheduled backups (which eliminates user intervention since
humans are unreliable in saving backups at critical moments in change of
state to their drives) to other internal media (for fast restores) and a
2nd copy of offline media to be far cheaper and the shortest time to
recover.

Can you find a seller of the same type (IDE) of drive at the same
capacity (or a minimum size that would encompass the data files you
think are on the failed drive)? The rescue service provider might get
some of the data files off the failed drive but they may not be able to
put them back on the same type and size of drive you had. How accurate
is your measure of 15 years old for the failed drive? Up until
somewhere to the 80's, MFM was used. That got replaced by RLL by the
early 90's. Then came PATA and SATA (and some others). Since you
mentioned IDE, yours is using PATA which was called ATA or [E]IDE before
SATA came out.

I did a search at Newegg on IDE, new, sold by Newegg and they don't
carry any of those. If I removed "sold by Newegg" then a few were
found; however, since they are sold by others using Newegg as their
storefront, any delivery, condition, or warranty problems will have you
dealing with the 3rd party seller, not with Newegg. There needs to be a
drive available for purchase now (no, DriveSavers isn't going to
computer swap meets) onto which your recovered data files can be stored.
You have to determine if the new drive will be usable in your ancient
computer.
 




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