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#1
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Delete Subfolders and Files
Hi all,
Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard |
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#3
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote:
Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
#4
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:57 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. Well, thanks for your reply Bruce, but that's not what it says in the xp help: 'Delete Subfolders and Files Allows or denies deleting subfolders and files, even if the Delete permission has not been granted on the subfolder or file. (applies to folders)' That's exactly the situation here. UserB has not granted permission to UserA to delete FileB, and indeed he can't, despite having 'Delete Subfolders & Files' permission on a containing folder. Is the help wrong, or is there some other way of interpreting what it says? Regards Richard You said that "UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights." Therefore, what your seeing is exactly what it should be. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
#5
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:57 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. Well, thanks for your reply Bruce, but that's not what it says in the xp help: 'Delete Subfolders and Files Allows or denies deleting subfolders and files, even if the Delete permission has not been granted on the subfolder or file. (applies to folders)' That's exactly the situation here. UserB has not granted permission to UserA to delete FileB, and indeed he can't, despite having 'Delete Subfolders & Files' permission on a containing folder. Is the help wrong, or is there some other way of interpreting what it says? Regards Richard You said that "UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights." Therefore, what your seeing is exactly what it should be. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
#6
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Delete Subfolders and Files
On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:57 -0600, Bruce Chambers
wrote: wrote: Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. Well, thanks for your reply Bruce, but that's not what it says in the xp help: 'Delete Subfolders and Files Allows or denies deleting subfolders and files, even if the Delete permission has not been granted on the subfolder or file. (applies to folders)' That's exactly the situation here. UserB has not granted permission to UserA to delete FileB, and indeed he can't, despite having 'Delete Subfolders & Files' permission on a containing folder. Is the help wrong, or is there some other way of interpreting what it says? Regards Richard |
#7
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Delete Subfolders and Files
On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:57 -0600, Bruce Chambers
wrote: wrote: Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. Well, thanks for your reply Bruce, but that's not what it says in the xp help: 'Delete Subfolders and Files Allows or denies deleting subfolders and files, even if the Delete permission has not been granted on the subfolder or file. (applies to folders)' That's exactly the situation here. UserB has not granted permission to UserA to delete FileB, and indeed he can't, despite having 'Delete Subfolders & Files' permission on a containing folder. Is the help wrong, or is there some other way of interpreting what it says? Regards Richard |
#8
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Delete Subfolders and Files
On Mon, 31 May 2010 17:04:53 -0600, Bruce Chambers
wrote: wrote: On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:57 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. Well, thanks for your reply Bruce, but that's not what it says in the xp help: 'Delete Subfolders and Files Allows or denies deleting subfolders and files, even if the Delete permission has not been granted on the subfolder or file. (applies to folders)' That's exactly the situation here. UserB has not granted permission to UserA to delete FileB, and indeed he can't, despite having 'Delete Subfolders & Files' permission on a containing folder. Is the help wrong, or is there some other way of interpreting what it says? Regards Richard You said that "UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights." Therefore, what your seeing is exactly what it should be. I was supposing that if UserA had the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission on FolderA, then that would be an irrevocable right they would hold for any files or folders, nested at any depth, within FolderA. I though that this would be useful to prevent a situation where UserA finds they cannot delete a folder they own because another user has created files or folders within it and taken away UserA's rights to delete those nested files or folders. Maybe it just doesn't work that way.... Regards Richard |
#9
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Delete Subfolders and Files
On Mon, 31 May 2010 17:04:53 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:57 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. Well, thanks for your reply Bruce, but that's not what it says in the xp help: 'Delete Subfolders and Files Allows or denies deleting subfolders and files, even if the Delete permission has not been granted on the subfolder or file. (applies to folders)' That's exactly the situation here. UserB has not granted permission to UserA to delete FileB, and indeed he can't, despite having 'Delete Subfolders & Files' permission on a containing folder. Is the help wrong, or is there some other way of interpreting what it says? Regards Richard You said that "UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights." Therefore, what your seeing is exactly what it should be. I was supposing that if UserA had the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission on FolderA, then that would be an irrevocable right they would hold for any files or folders, nested at any depth, within FolderA. I though that this would be useful to prevent a situation where UserA finds they cannot delete a folder they own because another user has created files or folders within it and taken away UserA's rights to delete those nested files or folders. Maybe it just doesn't work that way.... Regards Richard |
#10
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote in message
... On Mon, 31 May 2010 17:04:53 -0600, Bruce Chambers Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? .. . . I was supposing that if UserA had the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission on FolderA, then that would be an irrevocable right they would hold for any files or folders, nested at any depth, within FolderA. Oh -- why? -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
#11
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote in message ... On Mon, 31 May 2010 17:04:53 -0600, Bruce Chambers Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? .. . . I was supposing that if UserA had the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission on FolderA, then that would be an irrevocable right they would hold for any files or folders, nested at any depth, within FolderA. Oh -- why? -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
#12
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 17:04:53 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:57 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. Well, thanks for your reply Bruce, but that's not what it says in the xp help: 'Delete Subfolders and Files Allows or denies deleting subfolders and files, even if the Delete permission has not been granted on the subfolder or file. (applies to folders)' That's exactly the situation here. UserB has not granted permission to UserA to delete FileB, and indeed he can't, despite having 'Delete Subfolders & Files' permission on a containing folder. Is the help wrong, or is there some other way of interpreting what it says? Regards Richard You said that "UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights." Therefore, what your seeing is exactly what it should be. I was supposing that if UserA had the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission on FolderA, then that would be an irrevocable right they would hold for any files or folders, nested at any depth, within FolderA. No, explicit permissions take precedence over inherited permissions and denied denied permissions take precedence over allowed permissions. John |
#13
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote:
On Mon, 31 May 2010 17:04:53 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: On Mon, 31 May 2010 15:33:57 -0600, Bruce Chambers wrote: wrote: Hi all, Could anyone clarify how the Delete Subfolders and Files permission works? Testing this on xp sp3 doesn't work as I'd expect: UserA owns FolderA, and on that folder they have the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission. Inside FolderA is FolderB, owned by UserB. UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights. UserB creates FileB inside FolderB. Now, UserA can see FileB inside FolderB, but cannot delete it. Is that really the way it's supposed to behave? Regards Richard Yes. Well, thanks for your reply Bruce, but that's not what it says in the xp help: 'Delete Subfolders and Files Allows or denies deleting subfolders and files, even if the Delete permission has not been granted on the subfolder or file. (applies to folders)' That's exactly the situation here. UserB has not granted permission to UserA to delete FileB, and indeed he can't, despite having 'Delete Subfolders & Files' permission on a containing folder. Is the help wrong, or is there some other way of interpreting what it says? Regards Richard You said that "UserB has taken away all rights from UserA to do anything with FolderB, including inherited rights." Therefore, what your seeing is exactly what it should be. I was supposing that if UserA had the 'Delete Subfolders and Files' permission on FolderA, then that would be an irrevocable right they would hold for any files or folders, nested at any depth, within FolderA. No, explicit permissions take precedence over inherited permissions and denied denied permissions take precedence over allowed permissions. John |
#14
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 10:00:47 -0300, John John - MVP No, explicit permissions take precedence over inherited permissions and denied denied permissions take precedence over allowed permissions. John So how does UserA deal with the situation I described, where they cannot delete a folder they own because another user has created files or folders within it and taken away UserA's rights to delete those nested files or folders? UserA, at this point, *cannot* do anything to deal with it, because he/she allowed UserB Full Control within his/her purported area of control. Only another user with administrative permissions to all of the folders/sub-folders can now put things "right" by taking ownership of the entire (from UserA's level down) folder tree. Without 'Delete Subfolders and Files' working in the way I had supposed, UserA's only option seems to be to involve an administrator, asking them to take ownership and then delete the problem files & folders. That's correct. This is one reason why, in the normal scheme of things, only administrators are permitted "Full Control." Normal users should never be granted any privileges beyond "Modify." -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
#15
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Delete Subfolders and Files
wrote: On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 10:00:47 -0300, John John - MVP No, explicit permissions take precedence over inherited permissions and denied denied permissions take precedence over allowed permissions. John So how does UserA deal with the situation I described, where they cannot delete a folder they own because another user has created files or folders within it and taken away UserA's rights to delete those nested files or folders? UserA, at this point, *cannot* do anything to deal with it, because he/she allowed UserB Full Control within his/her purported area of control. Only another user with administrative permissions to all of the folders/sub-folders can now put things "right" by taking ownership of the entire (from UserA's level down) folder tree. Without 'Delete Subfolders and Files' working in the way I had supposed, UserA's only option seems to be to involve an administrator, asking them to take ownership and then delete the problem files & folders. That's correct. This is one reason why, in the normal scheme of things, only administrators are permitted "Full Control." Normal users should never be granted any privileges beyond "Modify." -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
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