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#1
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Setting apps for admin access?
Hi,
Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? -- Best regards, Neil |
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#2
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Setting apps for admin access?
Neil wrote:
Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? "If iTunes repeatedly prompts you to authorize your computer" https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT203160 I guess we can't hope to have them explain in English why all that is necessary. There are certainly a few "bone headed" suggestions there. Disabling UAC to solve an application design issue, isn't exactly all that clever. It's like saying you should remove your seatbelt, so you can exit the vehicle easier - through the windshield. Paul |
#3
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Setting apps for admin access?
Neil wrote:
Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? Fyi...if you are using Win8.1 the first account you created on first use (retail install or OEM pre-install) was an Admin account. Ensure you authorize the computer and purchase items from that account. Standard accounts will then function to play purchased music. -- ....winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#4
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Setting apps for admin access?
....winston‫ wrote:
Neil wrote: Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? Fyi...if you are using Win8.1 the first account you created on first use (retail install or OEM pre-install) was an Admin account. Ensure you authorize the computer and purchase items from that account. Standard accounts will then function to play purchased music. Do you understand the need for an Admin account ? ? Why is that necessary ? Paul |
#5
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Setting apps for admin access?
On 10/31/2015 3:41 AM, ...winston‫ wrote:
Neil wrote: Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? Fyi...if you are using Win8.1 the first account you created on first use (retail install or OEM pre-install) was an Admin account. Ensure you authorize the computer and purchase items from that account. Standard accounts will then function to play purchased music. The admin account on this computer is only used for administrative purposes. The other accounts are user accounts, and there is no problem making _purchases_ from iTunes with those accounts. You just can't download those purchases without admin access, which is puzzling. Since there are no restrictions for downloading from other sources, why should iTunes be any different when the risk is the same either way? I was told by the "genius" that it was possible to set admin access for a single app in Win8.1, but "he didn't know how" to do it, so I thought I'd ask here, since I've never heard of such a capability in any version of Windows. -- Best regards, Neil |
#6
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Setting apps for admin access?
On 10/30/2015 11:53 PM, Paul wrote:
Neil wrote: Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? "If iTunes repeatedly prompts you to authorize your computer" https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT203160 I guess we can't hope to have them explain in English why all that is necessary. Probably because there isn't a good explanation in any language why this should be necessary. It's not like one is installing an app when they're just downloading the music that they've purchased. If Apple is concerned about the security risks of the media they sell, they should tackle that on their end. There are certainly a few "bone headed" suggestions there. Disabling UAC to solve an application design issue, isn't exactly all that clever. It's like saying you should remove your seatbelt, so you can exit the vehicle easier - through the windshield. I think Apple has put a bullet in their foot. It would be less risky to just give the user account admin level. I'm not doing that, either. -- Best regards, Neil |
#7
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Setting apps for admin access?
Neil wrote:
I was told by the "genius" that it was possible to set admin access for a single app in Win8.1, but "he didn't know how" to do it, so I thought I'd ask here, since I've never heard of such a capability in any version of Windows. Auto-elevation is available to Windows applications, but not to user programs, if I understand what is written here. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...09.07.uac.aspx The first account you create on your Windows install, is made a member of the Administrators group. You could try making each user account a member of the Administrators group. There are also more restrictive power groups to add a user to. Such as a Backups group, which allows a limited user to run backup software such as Macrium. The purpose of that, is the Backup group permission allows a user to read files for the purposes of backing them up. Rather than for general access. You can set a tick box on an application to request manual elevation, but I presume this would present a UAC prompt ? http://www.tekrevue.com/tip/always-r...administrator/ And if you consider that tick box to be a "hint", apparently Microsoft also requests elevation for programs that have certain keywords in the name, rather than just consulting a manifest file to determine what elevation level to apply. Applications can have an internal manifest, an external manifest file, as well as Windows doing stuff based on the application name containing keywords ("...setup..."). http://superuser.com/questions/24631...doesnt-need-it http://superuser.com/questions/10297...h-admin-rights ******* I think it would be better to start with an exact error message, because at least one iTunes problem relates to the setting up of an iTunes account, and not checking the email account for the verification message, then attempting to download content. A bogus "administrator" message is presented, when in fact all that is wrong is the account setup procedure was not finished by the user. So before bashing the controls on the application, I'd want to make sure that some response is not being improperly interpreted. (It's an "Apple" message rather than a "Windows" message.) ******* Any time an iTunes problem comes up, I keep coming away from the thread feeling "these people don't know how to write Windows software". I own both Macs and PCs here, and when it comes to their own software, they seem to have a clue. But so many things they do with their Windows version just give me a continual vague uneasy feeling. Plenty of developers seem to write good Windows software, and Apple isn't one of them. And it's almost as if they want the experience to be miserable, rather than it being an accident. Paul |
#8
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Setting apps for admin access?
On 10/31/2015 3:33 PM, Paul wrote:
Neil wrote: I was told by the "genius" that it was possible to set admin access for a single app in Win8.1, but "he didn't know how" to do it, so I thought I'd ask here, since I've never heard of such a capability in any version of Windows. Auto-elevation is available to Windows applications, but not to user programs, if I understand what is written here. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...09.07.uac.aspx First, thanks for digging into this. It certainly has a lot of implications, and after reading through these pieces, I'm not convinced that it is a good idea to implement any of them for iTunes. [...] I think it would be better to start with an exact error message, because at least one iTunes problem relates to the setting up of an iTunes account, and not checking the email account for the verification message, then attempting to download content. A bogus "administrator" message is presented, when in fact all that is wrong is the account setup procedure was not finished by the user. So before bashing the controls on the application, I'd want to make sure that some response is not being improperly interpreted. (It's an "Apple" message rather than a "Windows" message.) There is no Windows UAC flag requesting administrative access to allow the program to make changes to the computer. All that happens is an Apple-generated pop-up message about "authorization" with a suggestion to check the status of the network connection. Going through the Apple-recommended procedures results in a loop, returning to the same pop-up. Only running as administrator works. I have some idea of what iTunes is doing that would require admin privileges, but I have yet to confirm my suspicions. The bottom line is that iTunes is merely downloading media content, making systemic changes should not be required. ******* Any time an iTunes problem comes up, I keep coming away from the thread feeling "these people don't know how to write Windows software". I own both Macs and PCs here, and when it comes to their own software, they seem to have a clue. But so many things they do with their Windows version just give me a continual vague uneasy feeling. Plenty of developers seem to write good Windows software, and Apple isn't one of them. And it's almost as if they want the experience to be miserable, rather than it being an accident. Paul I wouldn't be at all surprised if your notion turns out to be correct. I've also had both Macs and PCs for decades, and realize that nothing is even close to being perfect. But, Apple's tactic of writing Windows software with this type of conceptual flaw will not sell me more Apple products. -- Best regards, Neil |
#9
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Setting apps for admin access?
"Neil" wrote:
On 10/30/2015 11:53 PM, Paul wrote: Neil wrote: Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? "If iTunes repeatedly prompts you to authorize your computer" https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT203160 I guess we can't hope to have them explain in English why all that is necessary. Probably because there isn't a good explanation in any language why this should be necessary. It's not like one is installing an app when they're just downloading the music that they've purchased. If Apple is concerned about the security risks of the media they sell, they should tackle that on their end. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the original design used the program directory (or perhaps some other system folder, like C:\Windows\Temp) as a staging point for the download, and nobody responsible for the program bothered to notice the consequences when UAC was introduced in Vista and the system folders went off-limits for routine writing. Sadly, it's not just consumer applications that are guilty of that stupidity. The Remedy help desk ticket manager - used in many large enterprises - by default used the program folder (in C:\Program Files) to hold the current user's working files. I read the riot act to the Remedy developers over that point, but never saw any changes to that problem. (My POE no longer uses Remedy, although not for that reason.) Joe |
#10
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Setting apps for admin access?
On 11/2/2015 8:56 PM, Joe Morris wrote:
"Neil" wrote: On 10/30/2015 11:53 PM, Paul wrote: Neil wrote: Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? "If iTunes repeatedly prompts you to authorize your computer" https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT203160 I guess we can't hope to have them explain in English why all that is necessary. Probably because there isn't a good explanation in any language why this should be necessary. It's not like one is installing an app when they're just downloading the music that they've purchased. If Apple is concerned about the security risks of the media they sell, they should tackle that on their end. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the original design used the program directory (or perhaps some other system folder, like C:\Windows\Temp) as a staging point for the download, and nobody responsible for the program bothered to notice the consequences when UAC was introduced in Vista and the system folders went off-limits for routine writing. Sadly, it's not just consumer applications that are guilty of that stupidity. The Remedy help desk ticket manager - used in many large enterprises - by default used the program folder (in C:\Program Files) to hold the current user's working files. I read the riot act to the Remedy developers over that point, but never saw any changes to that problem. (My POE no longer uses Remedy, although not for that reason.) Although iTunes uses a folder in C:\Music\iTunes for downloads, for some reason it sets the folder properties to read-only afterwards. I suspect that admin privileges are required (and certainly should be, if they're not) to enable an app to alter folder properties. The question is why iTunes would do such a thing, since it does not require admin privileges for the *user* to alter those folder properties. -- Best regards, Neil |
#11
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Setting apps for admin access?
On 11/3/2015 6:56 PM, Paul wrote:
[...] Neil wrote: Although iTunes uses a folder in C:\Music\iTunes for downloads, for some reason it sets the folder properties to read-only afterwards. [...] One other detail, is the C:\Music\iTunes bit. I can find references to people using that when moving their music, but more of the documentation refers to the material as being in C:\users\username tree instead. Where you own that folder, and so a program you start, would have matching permissions. [...] You are right, the \Music\iTunes and its sub-folders are in the c:\users\username tree. Perhaps others have "shortcut" that location in the same manner that I did? ;-) -- Best regards, Neil |
#12
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Setting apps for admin access?
Neil wrote:
Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? The admin account started some time ago - iirc Win7 era in iTunes version 11. The requirement isn't all Windows or iTunes...the Store is the vehicle that requires the admin pre-requisite and computer authorization for purchase and download of media content. -- ....winston |
#13
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Setting apps for admin access?
Ken1943 wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 08:51:16 -0800, "...winston" wrote: Neil wrote: Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? The admin account started some time ago - iirc Win7 era in iTunes version 11. The requirement isn't all Windows or iTunes...the Store is the vehicle that requires the admin pre-requisite and computer authorization for purchase and download of media content. If I have a problem, I right-click on the exe file security Compatibility Check box for run as admin. This can also be done with the shortcut. It has been a very long time since I needed to do that. Ken1943 If elevation meets the iTunes Store constraint for admin account privilege on an authorized iTunes device with an iTunes signed on account to purchase content then you should be good to go. -- ....winston |
#14
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Setting apps for admin access?
On 11/4/2015 12:34 PM, ...winston wrote:
Ken1943 wrote: On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 08:51:16 -0800, "...winston" wrote: Neil wrote: Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? The admin account started some time ago - iirc Win7 era in iTunes version 11. The requirement isn't all Windows or iTunes...the Store is the vehicle that requires the admin pre-requisite and computer authorization for purchase and download of media content. If I have a problem, I right-click on the exe file security Compatibility Check box for run as admin. This can also be done with the shortcut. It has been a very long time since I needed to do that. Ken1943 If elevation meets the iTunes Store constraint for admin account privilege on an authorized iTunes device with an iTunes signed on account to purchase content then you should be good to go. That doesn't solve the problem of non-admin users (lacking the admin password) being able to d/l their media purchases. If it weren't for the "Apple genius" suggesting that elevation could be accomplished on individual app basis under Win8.1, I wouldn't have expected a solution. -- Best regards, Neil |
#15
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Setting apps for admin access?
Ken1943 wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 09:34:06 -0800, "...winston" wrote: Ken1943 wrote: On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 08:51:16 -0800, "...winston" wrote: Neil wrote: Hi, Windows 8.1 Home This is an odd one, at least to me. The current versions of iTunes require administrative access in order to download purchased items. Why they did that is a puzzler, but running as admin is the only thing that enabled the downloads to succeed. I do not want to have to "run as administrator", since non-admin users can't do that without the password, which pretty much defeats the concept of security. Is it possible to set admin. access for an individual app (e.g. iTunes) when accessed via a user (non-administrator's) account? The admin account started some time ago - iirc Win7 era in iTunes version 11. The requirement isn't all Windows or iTunes...the Store is the vehicle that requires the admin pre-requisite and computer authorization for purchase and download of media content. If I have a problem, I right-click on the exe file security Compatibility Check box for run as admin. This can also be done with the shortcut. It has been a very long time since I needed to do that. Ken1943 If elevation meets the iTunes Store constraint for admin account privilege on an authorized iTunes device with an iTunes signed on account to purchase content then you should be good to go. I don't use iANTHING Ken1943 Then your ealier comment may not apply to the op's iTunes question or mine which was specific to iTunes. -- ....winston |
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