where can I find a list of compatible motherboard upgrades for myDell XPS 420?

Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
Thanks.

On 25/12/2018 18:13, JBI wrote:
Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info. Thanks.

Google is a great place to start!

https://www.google.com/search?q=wher...y+Dell+XPS+420

Merry Christmas! :-)
--
David B.

On 12/25/18 1:13 PM, JBI wrote:
Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info. Thanks.
I fixed my dell 15R a few times with parts from.
https://www.parts-people.com/index.php

On 12/25/18 1:42 PM, David B. wrote:
On 25/12/2018 18:13, JBI wrote:
Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
Thanks.

Google is a great place to start!

https://www.google.com/search?q=wher...y+Dell+XPS+420


Merry Christmas! :-)

Thanks, but I already googled and it didn't help. Seems limited in any
upgrading, cheaper to get a newer desktop, but I know here there are
sometimes alternatives that never made it to google.

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 13:13:36 -0500, JBI wrote:

Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
Thanks.


Note that Dell is an OEM, and that means that it has an OEM copy of
Windows on it, and that means that if you switch motherboards you will
also have to buy a new copy of Windows.

So you have to compare the price of a motherboard plus a copy of
Windows against the cost of a new Dell (or some other OEM brand). To
me that's an easy decision--buy a new computer; the extra price will
be very small.

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 14:58:57 -0500, JBI wrote:

On 12/25/18 1:42 PM, David B. wrote:
On 25/12/2018 18:13, JBI wrote:
Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
Thanks.

Google is a great place to start!

https://www.google.com/search?q=wher...y+Dell+XPS+420


Merry Christmas! :-)

Thanks, but I already googled and it didn't help. Seems limited in any
upgrading, cheaper to get a newer desktop, but I know here there are
sometimes alternatives that never made it to google.

Can you define what you mean by compatible?

1. Do you mean compatible with your existing CPU and RAM?
2. Do you mean compatible with your existing case?

For #1, make notes of your CPU and RAM, as well as your current
motherboard. Determine the exact CPU that you have so that you can
determine the CPU socket that your current board has. If you're keeping
the same CPU, you'll have to match the socket. Make a note of the form
factor of your current motherboard because your replacement board will
likely need to be the same form factor in order to fit the case. If
there's any chance that your PC does not use a standard motherboard form
factor, your options will be severely limited. Now you're ready to shop
for a motherboard. As you narrow down your choices, verify that the
contenders can use your existing RAM.

For #2, determine the form factor of your current motherboard, then find
the replacement that has the features that you like. See above for the
part about not currently having one of the standard form factors. Neck
and neck in the horse race is the CPU that you like, so that you're
selecting the CPU and the board at about the same time. You need the
board to be compatible, i.e., have the correct CPU socket, so that your
new CPU fits. Lastly, once you've selected the board and CPU, check what
kind of RAM it supports and add that to your order.

For #1, your existing PSU may be fine, but for #2 you'd want to take a
closer look to be sure it has the power that you need, (there are tons
of online PSU calculators, all different, so use a few and average the
results), and if you're getting a new board you'll need to make sure
your existing PSU has the ATX12V or EPS12V power connectors. On newer
boards, one or the other of those provides power to the CPU. You may see
one or two power connectors labeled PCIE, but those are for powering
graphics cards and forcing one of those connectors onto an ATX12V or
EPS12V port will cause severe damage. Key word: forcing. It really
doesn't want to fit.

--

Char Jackson

On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 15:20:03 -0500, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2018-12-25 15:15, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 13:13:36 -0500, JBI wrote:

Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
Thanks.


Note that Dell is an OEM, and that means that it has an OEM copy of
Windows on it, and that means that if you switch motherboards you will
also have to buy a new copy of Windows.

So you have to compare the price of a motherboard plus a copy of
Windows against the cost of a new Dell (or some other OEM brand). To
me that's an easy decision--buy a new computer; the extra price will
be very small.


In terms of price/performance ratio, the new computer will be a better
buy anyhow.


Yes, of course. That's why I said "To me that's an easy decision--buy
a new computer," but I probably should have added that to my post.
Thank you for adding it.

JBI wrote:
On 12/25/18 1:42 PM, David B. wrote:
On 25/12/2018 18:13, JBI wrote:
Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
Thanks.

Google is a great place to start!

https://www.google.com/search?q=wher...y+Dell+XPS+420


Merry Christmas! :-)

Thanks, but I already googled and it didn't help. Seems limited in any
upgrading, cheaper to get a newer desktop, but I know here there are
sometimes alternatives that never made it to google.

The motherboard in this example has a five character code "TP406".

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-XPS-42...2 7:rk:1:pf:0

The BIOS chip on the board, has a SLIC table that says "I'm a Dell"
and that's how the Dell OS installation gets activated.

A motherboard without the SLIC table could cause OS problems.
An Asrock board would not activate a Dell Vista OS.

It's possible your Win7 install is an upgrade (purchased retail)
to the original Dell install, in which case you have more options for
what to do next.

A motherboard could still have a SLIC table, and have entirely
different hardware and chipset, and this would cause a driver
problem. You'd need drivers to retrofit something strange
that also happened to be a previous generation Dell.

The outer dimensions of your Dell motherboard may follow
a standard, but the "chunk" cut out of one corner of the
board helps ensure "fun" when retrofitting and making
a Frankenstein of the machine. Maybe a MicroATX would fit,
robbing you of two or three slots.

*******

There was a generation of Dell systems with leaking caps problems.
The very worst motherboard of that lot, had close to a 99% failure
rate (i.e. just a matter of time until the thing starts crashing).
It's possible some of those were Optiplexes, the worst of them.
But the bad caps didn't play favorites from a branding perspective -
the factory could have put bad batches in just about anything
made at the time. One motherboard company had so much legal
trouble because of this issue, they went bankrupt.

I had an Antec power supply here, used once then put in a box
in the junk room. Pulled two years later, it had failed. Opening
the box showed caps with orange goo on the tops of the 5V output
filtering stage. That's an example of how a "refurb board" sitting
in some Ebay sellers livingroom, could be "rotting" as time passes.
This is why we have to research "leaking caps", to get some
idea of the odds of this being a recurring problem (install
one refurb mobo after another, each one failing the same way).

When shopping for "refurbs" for the very worst of such boards,
you don't want a "refurb", you want a "recapped motherboard" where
the capacitors have been replaced to extend the life of the
motherboard. Homey used to do these for ~$50 a motherboard,
until he'd inhaled a bit too much lead-filled solder smoke
from his work. He quit the business and disappeared after
that. There are probably people with the proper equipment
and ventilation solutions doing this work.

I could only find one brief reference to an XPS 420 owner with
some sort of problem like that, but no details. If the thing
was a basket case, there'd be more reports.

*******

The TP406 is BTX (motherboard mirrored left-to-right) and
the motherboard has a "chunk" cut out of it in one corner,
for "increased fun" when thinking up new uses for a
defective machine. The motherboard is from LGA775 era,
and shipped with either E8400 or Q6600. It takes DDR2
RAM of some sort.

Such a machine would still be powerful enough to run Win7 or
Win10. It's not a dead loss out of the gate.

But it was kinda like a Cadillac with Big Fins in terms
of the feature set. An attempt by Dell to jack up the
price, so you could have Big Fins. When they put an
"Accelerator" in the machine, the golden rule is that
"whizzy hardware is only worth having if there is software".

If a hardware device follows a standard, and the standard
is followed for a few years, you might get the value from it.

If the hardware is a "home project" thing with just one
driver and no more support, then it's a "Frisbee".

I can give an example. I bought a video capture device
once, with a SCSI bus interface on one side. It cost
around $500. I was oblivious to the Frisbee issue, and
that thing was obsolete faster than I can snap my fingers.
I did do some captures from my VCR, but this was a board
full of jellybean logic, before Conexant chips were available,
and of course, from a software point of view was a dead
duck. What usually happens with companies like that,
is they go bankrupt before the paint dries on the product
you bought.

When I buy hardware now, I go into the purchases with
some guesstimates as to support. The video card I just
bought, will have a max of six years support, and the
product was two years old when I bought it, which means
I have four years support left. A blink of an eye
essentially, in the hardware world.

*******

If you buy hardware today, the hardware makers will do
whatever they can, to make it not work with Windows 7.
Your new machine purchase will be Win10... or Linux,
your choice.

Caught between a rock and a hard place, as it were...

Who knows, a $40 gamble on an Ebay TP406 might be
worth it. Even the person selling it, might not know
just what shape the thing is in - some sellers are quite
savvy and know when they're selling crap, but a few
are as innocent as the driven snow. (For example, one
dope was selling RAM for the wrong price, and was
taking a bath. I don't think the RAM was stolen either,
just a dopey individual as near as we could tell.
People were buying the RAM because it overclocked
quite well. He seemed to be able to get more of it.)

If you're already an Ebay customer, then you're probably
aware of the pitfalls of Ebay. I've never bought anything
there. It's not that I don't like "adventures" or anything,
but I try not to do stuff now that will raise my
blood pressure :-)

By entering "Dell XPS 420 motherboard" on Ebay, it may be
possible to find multiple five character codes. Maybe there
is more than TP406. You would endeavor to open the broken
system and search for such a code, to help you find the
right one. When multiple board types are claimed to be
replacements, it's pretty hard to tell what is different
on each one.

To give an example of how evil the "SKU" issue is,
some HP machines shipped with Intel or AMD motherboards,
which means if you shopped by machine model number alone,
you could easily get something that was entirely
different than your original setup. I couldn't help
a person in such a mess... too many variables...
If I owned such a machine, I could easily be screwed
when buying $40 boards off Ebay. And it wouldn't particularly
be the sellers fault, as when you buy on Ebay, you use
your own tech knowledge as the leverage.

Paul

Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 15:20:03 -0500, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2018-12-25 15:15, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 25 Dec 2018 13:13:36 -0500, JBI wrote:

Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
Thanks.

Note that Dell is an OEM, and that means that it has an OEM copy of
Windows on it, and that means that if you switch motherboards you will
also have to buy a new copy of Windows.

So you have to compare the price of a motherboard plus a copy of
Windows against the cost of a new Dell (or some other OEM brand). To
me that's an easy decision--buy a new computer; the extra price will
be very small.

In terms of price/performance ratio, the new computer will be a better
buy anyhow.


Yes, of course. That's why I said "To me that's an easy decision--buy
a new computer," but I probably should have added that to my post.
Thank you for adding it.

But that depends on whether you want to be stuck
with Windows 10 or not.

I installed an older version of Windows 10 yesterday
as part of a dual boot experiment, and noticed that
14393 runs smoother than 17763. And this is not a
hardware issue, but seems to be the software itself that
has a problem. 14393 just seemed buttery smooth by
comparison. (The same video driver was used for both
OSes.)

Once Windows 10 has switched to containers for stuff,
I expect this trend (to Pentium III performance) to
continue... Intel cannot crank the clock rate fast enough,
to smooth over bad software design. And once the
OS switches to containers, the OS will be... unmaintainable.

Summary: "Not an easy decision"

Paul

"JBI" wrote

| Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
| there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
| Thanks.

You mean you want to upgrade as in newer, more
recent onchip graphics and slots for more recent
CPU/RAM?

In that case you need to just think of it as a case.
Your OEM Windows won't activate with a new board.
You won't have drivers. The new board would need
new CPU and RAM. There's little or nothing to salvage.
You'd just be buidling a new box in a Dell case.

If you want a new motherboard to match the old, they
might sell it. But this is where the downside of Dell really
shows up. They customize their builds and provide custom
drivers from their site. They go to great lengths to prevent
you from doing anything but using their computer, as they
sold it to you.

With any other brand you can generally mix and match
parts. Dell are like Apple. They try to screw you if you
take matters into your own hands. The first time I realized
how bad Dell was I was salvaging a Win95 box and thought
I'd save the graphics component. No go. It was a bizarre,
square plug, the likes of which I haven't seen before or
since. So I had to just throw it away.

The up side of Dell is that they have good service and
a usable website if you just need drivers for their product.
But you trade enslavement for that convenience.

Mayayana wrote:
"JBI" wrote

| Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
| there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
| Thanks.

You mean you want to upgrade as in newer, more
recent onchip graphics and slots for more recent
CPU/RAM?

In that case you need to just think of it as a case.
Your OEM Windows won't activate with a new board.
You won't have drivers. The new board would need
new CPU and RAM. There's little or nothing to salvage.
You'd just be buidling a new box in a Dell case.

If you want a new motherboard to match the old, they
might sell it. But this is where the downside of Dell really
shows up. They customize their builds and provide custom
drivers from their site. They go to great lengths to prevent
you from doing anything but using their computer, as they
sold it to you.

With any other brand you can generally mix and match
parts. Dell are like Apple. They try to screw you if you
take matters into your own hands. The first time I realized
how bad Dell was I was salvaging a Win95 box and thought
I'd save the graphics component. No go. It was a bizarre,
square plug, the likes of which I haven't seen before or
since. So I had to just throw it away.

The up side of Dell is that they have good service and
a usable website if you just need drivers for their product.
But you trade enslavement for that convenience.

You can still find local companies who will build
up a PC from parts for you. And they can provide the
knowledge to ensure it works properly. And put a
"retail" OS on it for you.

Eighteen years ago, the cost of that service was
only $100. Over and above the price of the individual
items needed to build the system. It's probably $200
by now.

On the one hand, the Dell model may seem convenient. It's
the long term prospects which are harder to take. (The
"I'm saddled with junk" problem.)

The only problem I have today with that, is I don't
know how many computer stores have display models of
empty computer cases for you to look at. You start
with a computer case for your build, so it's big enough
for the crap inside, and that's all part of having
a nice and convenient platform for long term usage.

For me, I would not accept a computer case today, unless
it had hard drive trays you can slide-load when the
door is open. Like my Antec Sonata.

A lot of cases now, have room for liquid cooling solutions
and the like, and for an email/web surf machine that
would be overkill. Yet, you still want enough slots
in the machine, to add "expansion" features. I've
made good use on my typing machine, of two PCIe x16 slots
with the second slot being used for "the toy of the week".

You could drop into a computer (builder) store and pose a puzzle
for them by asking for a "Skylake system to run Windows 7".
That ought to set their hearts aflutter :-) They love
requests like that. I'm sure there's a certain percentage
of their customer base, who asks for that. The Skylake system
could still run Windows 10 later if you want. Or whatever
the OS of the era happens to be.

Asking them to find you a Core2 LGA775 motherboard for
your E8400 or Q6600, they'll just roll their eyes if
you do that, as those would be hard to find. (Maybe used
on Ebay etc.) The Skylake request is getting pretty
close now to being eye-roll material, so don't be
surprised if they refuse.

Paul

"Paul" wrote

| You can still find local companies who will build
| up a PC from parts for you. And they can provide the
| knowledge to ensure it works properly. And put a
| "retail" OS on it for you.
|

Those are all gone where I live. I used to sometimes
go to them to buy barebones boxes, with a board, CPU
and power supply pre-installed. The nearest one to me
had made some kind of unsavory deal with Intel, advertised
Intel throughout the store, and refused to use AMD --
enthusiastically spreading the myth that AMD overheats
when you look at it.
But there were at least 2 other place that I knew of. They
all closed years ago. (Recently I met an Intel salesperson
in Best Buy. He was still selling the "AMD overheats" line.
I pointed out that they fixed that many years ago. He tried
to convince me it wasn't true. My FX-8300 is running at 102F
at this moment.)

And there's really only one parts store left. Microcenter.
Good selection. Good prices. But it's really a discount store.
Clerks generally don't know much. Boxes are often dented.
And they're not always cooperative about returns. Then they
try to browbeat me into giving them my personal info at
the checkout. ("Really?! You don't want to give me all your
personal info?! If you don't then you won't be able to return
this item without a receipt!!")
So I try to avoid them when possible. Dented boxes and
fighting over faulty merchandise returns is not an auspicious
combination.

I'd been buying through TigerDirect for years. But then they
were bought by PC Mall. Like Amazon, they're not really
selling the stuff. Orders come from numerous small dealers,
scattered around. So why am I paying TigerDirect AKA PCMall
if I'm actually buying from Ed's Motherboards in Omaha?

There doesn't seem to be a single, dependable dealer
left anywhere.

Cases? That's the least of my concerns. If the board fits
and it has front USB jacks, that's good enough. If it
doesn't look like some teenager's fantasy of a Klingon
device then all the better. Usually I pay about $20 and
end up with a basic sheet metal box that "looks cool" to
a 10 year old. My current one is called "Cougar" and
looks vaguely Klingonish, but not too bad.

I'm also not as picky as you with parts, I think. My main
box is XP, with a basic Asus board and an AMD FX-8300
8-core. I love it. And it was cheap. But I fear that by the
time I'm ready to buy another I won't be able to get parts
to suport Win7, much less XP. If that happens I might just
have to hang up my toolbelt, get a Linux box to check
email, and leave the Internet to the spies, advertisers
and consumers. Already the medium is infested with
"services". It's going downhill fast.

Recently there was discussion on Slashdot of the
increasing sleaze. There's a site called darkpatterns.org
that shows examples. But they're churning outrage and coming
up with overly clever jargon ("dark patterns") for what's
really just old-fashioned, unregulated snake oil, elixir, and
downright theft.
The very first time I went online was on AOL. A popup
blocked my way:
"Order a credit card now." "OK" "Ask me later".

From that moment I knew I wasn't in Kansas anymore
and that I'd need to always keep one hand on my wallet.
Today it's just more intense, systematic, and scientific.
But some of the examples are interesting and/or funny:
"Sign up now for our bikini body weight loss system."
"OK" "Thanks but I already have a bikini body."

I'm guessing there are a lot of shamed, embarassed
women leaving that website, having clicked the "no thanks"
button knowing full well that they couldn't pull off a
bikini.

For anyone who's curious, darkpatterns.org has a "hall
of shame", showing lots of samples of typical sleaze.

On 12/26/2018 11:58 PM, Paul wrote:
Mayayana wrote:
"JBI" wrote

| Probably not worth the cost over a new desktop, but just curious if
| there are any websites where I can find the subject question info.
| Thanks.

Â* You mean you want to upgrade as in newer, more
recent onchip graphics and slots for more recent
CPU/RAM?

Â*Â* In that case you need to just think of it as a case.
Your OEM Windows won't activate with a new board.
You won't have drivers. The new board would need
new CPU and RAM. There's little or nothing to salvage.
You'd just be buidling a new box in a Dell case.

Â* If you want a new motherboard to match the old, they
might sell it. But this is where the downside of Dell really
shows up. They customize their builds and provide custom
drivers from their site. They go to great lengths to prevent
you from doing anything but using their computer, as they
sold it to you.

Â* With any other brand you can generally mix and match
parts. Dell are like Apple. They try to screw you if you
take matters into your own hands. The first time I realized
how bad Dell was I was salvaging a Win95 box and thought
I'd save the graphics component. No go. It was a bizarre,
square plug, the likes of which I haven't seen before or
since. So I had to just throw it away.

Â* The up side of Dell is that they have good service and
a usable website if you just need drivers for their product.
But you trade enslavement for that convenience.

You can still find local companies who will build
up a PC from parts for you. And they can provide the
knowledge to ensure it works properly. And put a
"retail" OS on it for you.

Eighteen years ago, the cost of that service was
only $100. Over and above the price of the individual
items needed to build the system. It's probably $200
by now.

On the one hand, the Dell model may seem convenient. It's
the long term prospects which are harder to take. (The
"I'm saddled with junk" problem.)

The only problem I have today with that, is I don't
know how many computer stores have display models of
empty computer cases for you to look at. You start
with a computer case for your build, so it's big enough
for the crap inside, and that's all part of having
a nice and convenient platform for long term usage.

For me, I would not accept a computer case today, unless
it had hard drive trays you can slide-load when the
door is open. Like my Antec Sonata.

A lot of cases now, have room for liquid cooling solutions
and the like, and for an email/web surf machine that
would be overkill. Yet, you still want enough slots
in the machine, to add "expansion" features. I've
made good use on my typing machine, of two PCIe x16 slots
with the second slot being used for "the toy of the week".

You could drop into a computer (builder) store and pose a puzzle
for them by asking for a "Skylake system to run Windows 7".
That ought to set their hearts aflutter :-) They love
requests like that. I'm sure there's a certain percentage
of their customer base, who asks for that. The Skylake system
could still run Windows 10 later if you want. Or whatever
the OS of the era happens to be.

Asking them to find you a Core2 LGA775 motherboard for
your E8400 or Q6600, they'll just roll their eyes if
you do that, as those would be hard to find. (Maybe used
on Ebay etc.) The Skylake request is getting pretty
close now to being eye-roll material, so don't be
surprised if they refuse.

Â*Â* Paul


The best computer parts store I have ever dealt with, They still have 13
brick and mortar stores plus a huge online selection, they built my Son
an i7 950 8 years ago and the build price was $70.00 cdn, the system has
run perfectly ever since, Beautiful job with immaculate layout and
lacing, top of the line parts at that time, Parts cost was abut $1600.00
cdn. Too bad they are all located in western Canada, Manitoba,
Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia. Canada.Give their site a
look at.

https://www.memoryexpress.com/

Rene

On 12/26/18 8:11 PM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

If you want a new motherboard to match the old, they
might sell it. But this is where the downside of Dell really
shows up. They customize their builds and provide custom
drivers from their site. They go to great lengths to prevent
you from doing anything but using their computer, as they
sold it to you.

I'm taking care of a Dell for a friend, and the power supply quit after
a power outage. It was a unique design and the motherboard was made to
work with it. A standard MS wouldn't fit in that case. If I couldn't
find a used one of those odd power supplies on eBay, I'd never have been
able to fix that PC. It's going to need a new fan (IIRC, a standard part
but hard to replace) soon.

Drives (hard, floppy, CD) and mouse / keyboard are standard parts.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few
virtues" -- Abraham Lincoln

On 12/26/18 11:58 PM, Paul wrote:

[snip]

For me, I would not accept a computer case today, unless
it had hard drive trays you can slide-load when the
door is open. Like my Antec Sonata.

My first PC case had 4 drive bays, but it was really hard to get to
those screws and almost impossible to use all 4 bays. New tower cases
are almost always easier.

[snip]

You could drop into a computer (builder) store and pose a puzzle
for them by asking for a "Skylake system to run Windows 7".
That ought to set their hearts aflutter :-) They love
requests like that. I'm sure there's a certain percentage
of their customer base, who asks for that. The Skylake system
could still run Windows 10 later if you want. Or whatever
the OS of the era happens to be.

I'd rather stay with 7, even using a VM if necessary.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few
virtues" -- Abraham Lincoln