Fresh install, plus personal files, still crashing.

My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds. Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else, no installed programs
other than what comes with win10 out of the box.

Then I installed Firefox, nothing else.

Guess what? it still crashes with a BSOD. Sometimes before FF is
started. One reason was less than or equal and another was something
else.

I thought this should prevent crashes?

Unless it's hardware. I had run Memtest86 for 8 hours iirc before
with no errors. Last nght 17 hours with no errors, 7 full passes?

What else could be the problem?
Optiplex 755 Win10 Pro 8 Gig RAM Originally with Vista or 7
installed. Does that matter?

Should I try safe mode? What is the point?

On 2020-08-04 6:11 p.m., micky wrote:
My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds. Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else, no installed programs
other than what comes with win10 out of the box.

Then I installed Firefox, nothing else.

Guess what? it still crashes with a BSOD. Sometimes before FF is
started. One reason was less than or equal and another was something
else.

I thought this should prevent crashes?

Unless it's hardware. I had run Memtest86 for 8 hours iirc before
with no errors. Last nght 17 hours with no errors, 7 full passes?

What else could be the problem?
Optiplex 755 Win10 Pro 8 Gig RAM Originally with Vista or 7
installed. Does that matter?

Should I try safe mode? What is the point?


How much memory do you have? How many sticks?

try running one stick at a time in each used slot.

If that still fails try a new power supply.

Rene

micky wrote:

My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds. Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else

That is not a "fresh install". You need to start with a formatted hard
drive and install Windows on that BLANK hard drive, with NOTHING else.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:18:54 -0000 (UTC), John
Doe wrote:

micky wrote:

My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds.

30 seconds after it fully boots. Sometimes longer or I coudln't have
run the reinstall or reinstall with personal files.

Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else

That is not a "fresh install". You need to start with a formatted hard
drive and install Windows on that BLANK hard drive, with NOTHING else.

I know it 's not a fresh install, but are you saying that one of my
files could cause a crash even if it's not part of a any program or
process that is running?

Is there any reason to think it's less likely to crash if those are not
kept on the HDD?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:18:54 -0000 (UTC), John
Doe wrote:

micky wrote:

My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds.

30 seconds after it fully boots. Sometimes longer or I coudln't have
run the reinstall or reinstall with personal files.

Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else

That is not a "fresh install". You need to start with a formatted hard
drive and install Windows on that BLANK hard drive, with NOTHING else.

I know it 's not a fresh install, but are you saying that one of my
files could cause a crash even if it's not part of a any program or
process that is running?

Is there any reason to think it's less likely to crash if those are not
kept on the HDD?

Micky wrote:

it still crashes with a BSOD.
One reason was less than or equal

IRQ less or equal is usually a driver issue, and more often than not
it's the GPU driver

Unless it's hardware.Â*Â*Â* I had run Memtest86 for 8 hours iirc before
with no errors.Â* Last nght 17 hours with no errors, 7 full passes?

Do you get chance to go into device manager and uninstall your graphics
driver and remove the files from disk, so that at next boot you'll be in
basic VGA driver?

[sorry about the f'd up attribution/reference]

No telling what Windows keeps on the hard drive.

The way to tell if crashing is hardware related is to do a clean install,
that is an install on a formatted hard drive (with bare minimum hardware).

--
micky wrote:

Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: micky
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Subject: Fresh install, plus personal files, still crashing.
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2020 21:42:21 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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References:
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org alt.comp.os.windows-10:123722 alt.comp.hardwa19816

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:18:54 -0000 (UTC), John
Doe wrote:

micky wrote:

My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds.

30 seconds after it fully boots. Sometimes longer or I coudln't have
run the reinstall or reinstall with personal files.

Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else

That is not a "fresh install". You need to start with a formatted hard
drive and install Windows on that BLANK hard drive, with NOTHING else.

I know it 's not a fresh install, but are you saying that one of my
files could cause a crash even if it's not part of a any program or
process that is running?

Is there any reason to think it's less likely to crash if those are not
kept on the HDD?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 4 Aug 2020 18:21:12 -0500, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:

On 2020-08-04 6:11 p.m., micky wrote:
My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds. Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else, no installed programs
other than what comes with win10 out of the box.

Then I installed Firefox, nothing else.

Guess what? it still crashes with a BSOD. Sometimes before FF is
started. One reason was less than or equal and another was something
else.

I thought this should prevent crashes?

Unless it's hardware. I had run Memtest86 for 8 hours iirc before
with no errors. Last nght 17 hours with no errors, 7 full passes?

What else could be the problem?
Optiplex 755 Win10 Pro 8 Gig RAM Originally with Vista or 7
installed. Does that matter?

Should I try safe mode? What is the point?


How much memory do you have? How many sticks?

8 gigs. Two iirc.

try running one stick at a time in each used slot.

So is that 4 possibilities?

If that still fails try a new power supply.

I have a bunch of power supplies that I took from full-size PC's but
this PC is one size smaller, 12"x 12 or 13 x 3.5. So they probably
wont' fit, right?

I see that ones that do fit are only ..... not so cheap. $44 on
Amazon, $20.55 on ebay, ...less for refurbished, which in this case
probably means just "used". What can they refurbish? They blow out the
dust?

Any chance the connectors for those other power supplies I have will fit
and I can just run with one of them (and the cover not on the case)
until I see if it works better with a better PSU? Then I'll buy a new
one. .

But the advantage is that if there is a hardware problem, and not a
software problem, I can use the disk clone I made just as the problem
was starting, and I'll be back where I was.

Rene

On 2020-08-04 9:17 p.m., micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 4 Aug 2020 18:21:12 -0500, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:

On 2020-08-04 6:11 p.m., micky wrote:
My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds. Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else, no installed programs
other than what comes with win10 out of the box.

Then I installed Firefox, nothing else.

Guess what? it still crashes with a BSOD. Sometimes before FF is
started. One reason was less than or equal and another was something
else.

I thought this should prevent crashes?

Unless it's hardware. I had run Memtest86 for 8 hours iirc before
with no errors. Last nght 17 hours with no errors, 7 full passes?

What else could be the problem?
Optiplex 755 Win10 Pro 8 Gig RAM Originally with Vista or 7
installed. Does that matter?

Should I try safe mode? What is the point?


How much memory do you have? How many sticks?

8 gigs. Two iirc.

try running one stick at a time in each used slot.

So is that 4 possibilities?

Yes 4 trials.


If that still fails try a new power supply.

I have a bunch of power supplies that I took from full-size PC's but
this PC is one size smaller, 12"x 12 or 13 x 3.5. So they probably
wont' fit, right?

Yes a regular ATX supply may not fit.


I see that ones that do fit are only ..... not so cheap. $44 on
Amazon, $20.55 on ebay, ...less for refurbished, which in this case
probably means just "used". What can they refurbish? They blow out the
dust?

You do not want refurbished power supplies.


Any chance the connectors for those other power supplies I have will fit
and I can just run with one of them (and the cover not on the case)
until I see if it works better with a better PSU? Then I'll buy a new
one. .

The connectors on an ATX drive may or may not be compatible with your
PC, Can't tell without knowing what brand and model of PC and
motherboard you have.


But the advantage is that if there is a hardware problem, and not a
software problem, I can use the disk clone I made just as the problem
was starting, and I'll be back where I was.

Rene


Another way to separate software and hardware problems without
changing hardware is to download a Live Linux distro and install it on a
DVD or Flash drive and see if it runs fine with that, Any distro will
do, a Good small distro is Zenialpup 7.5 , If it crashes with that then
it is probably hardware, If it runs consistently good then it is
probably your Windows setup or other 3rd party software.
Do Not install the Linux distro to your hard drive, Run it from your DVD
or flash drive.

Rene

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 5 Aug 2020 03:04:55 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Micky wrote:

it still crashes with a BSOD.
One reason was less than or equal

IRQ less or equal is usually a driver issue, and more often than not
it's the GPU driver

So should I delete that too? Or replace it with something.

I guess Dell has all the drivers I should use.

Unless it's hardware.*** I had run Memtest86 for 8 hours iirc before
with no errors.* Last nght 17 hours with no errors, 7 full passes?

Do you get chance to go into device manager and uninstall your graphics
driver and remove the files from disk, so that at next boot you'll be in
basic VGA driver?

No, I didn't know I should. :-(

There is roll back driver, disable device, and uninstall device. I
assume I should do the 3rd?

The listed drivers are (C:\system32 for all)
drivers\igdkumd64.sys only this one is in Drivers
igdumd64.dll
iglhxa64.cpa
iglhxa64.vp
iglhxc64.vp
iglhxg64.vp
iglhxo64.vp
iglhxs64.vp
syswow64\igd10umd32.dll
syswow64\igdumd32.dll

For the Intel Q35 Express Chipest Family,
version 8.14.10.2697
signed by MS Windows Hardare Compatibility.

[sorry about the f'd up attribution/reference]

No problem ;-)

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 5 Aug 2020 01:18:54 -0000 (UTC), John
Doe wrote:

micky wrote:

My previous thread is pretty far back so to recap, I had had 50+ BSODs
with 5 or more different reasons given.

I installed the May update over my current win10 and then downloaded a
whole version and installed that over it. No change.

Debugging was hard because it sometimes crashes before it fully boots
and sometimes within 30 seconds.

30 seconds after it fully boots. Sometimes longer or I coudln't have
run the reinstall or reinstall with personal files.

Worked fine in Safe Mode

So I used that source of media, I forget t he name, and re-installed
win10 keeping my personal files and nothing else
That is not a "fresh install". You need to start with a formatted hard
drive and install Windows on that BLANK hard drive, with NOTHING else.

I know it 's not a fresh install, but are you saying that one of my
files could cause a crash even if it's not part of a any program or
process that is running?

Is there any reason to think it's less likely to crash if those are not
kept on the HDD?

Windows has a memory tester. It's likely to need a reboot. Use it.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html

Alternately, it can be run from the Win10 installer DVD, but that's
not described in the tutorial.

*******

You can also run Prime95 from a Linux LiveCD.

This is Fatdog.

Name: Fatdog64-710.iso
Size: 377487360 bytes (360 MiB)
SHA1: C79E16FE5BF53EE9A2AE6E9D2F23F51C67CB6468

https://i.postimg.cc/8z9QZHr6/Fatdog64-710.gif

And while I was in Fatdog and using the Browser, I
downloaded a copy of this:

http://www.mersenne.org/ftp_root/gim...linux64.tar.gz

( from a link on https://www.mersenne.org/download/ webpage )

Right-clicking the file in Downloads, there is an item in the
menu to unpack it. Stop unpacking it when you see the
"p95v298b6.linux64" folder.

Anyway, that's one of many ways to run Prime05.

When it asks "Join GIMPS" say "No" as you're "Just Testing".

If you press "control C" in the terminal window running prime95,
that should stop it. Select "5" to Exit.

When running the program

cd Downloads
cd p95v298b6.linux64
./mprime

just accept the defaults by pressing return at each prompt.
The Join GIMPS prompt is the one that needs your attention and "No".

The 255 watts of power that was drawing, was more
than normal. Normally, with all cores flat out, the
PC draws 180W. It went up to 255 watts, because of AVX.

Anyway, that's examples of a couple tests.

Paul

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 5 Aug 2020 02:08:04 -0000 (UTC), John
Doe wrote:

No telling what Windows keeps on the hard drive.

The way to tell if crashing is hardware related is to do a clean install,
that is an install on a formatted hard drive (with bare minimum hardware).

Well, when I did this a week ago, I checked if programs were installed,
and concluded for good reason** that they were not.

**For example, Anvir that had been installed now just offered to install
itself. And when I installed Firefox, it didn't install where it had
been or it didn't find any of the bookmarks for the book mark bar etc.

But it appears that several, or many, are. I suppose I coudl have
checked Don't delete anything, but I sure don't think I did that.

I chose the middle choice. Then for some reason it asked me again, and
again I chose the middle choice, then iirc it offered to let me change
it but I didn't, because I thought as long as I keep doing that it will
keep offering. .

Another strange thing, When looked in file manager a week ago, there
were no extensions for known file types. No .exe programs in one case.

But now there are.



So no longer any special reason to suspect the hardware. But thanks for
the answers. I'rve saved them for when I need them, and I'll probably
remember them too.




I know it 's not a fresh install, but are you saying that one of my
files could cause a crash even if it's not part of a any program or
process that is running?

micky wrote:

I have a bunch of power supplies that I took from full-size PC's but
this PC is one size smaller, 12"x 12 or 13 x 3.5. So they probably
wont' fit, right?

Be careful, some Dells use non-standard wiring of the PSU connector.

If you compare the colours pin for pin, you could test using one of your
spares, even if it meant leaving it outside the case.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 5 Aug 2020 06:14:13 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

micky wrote:

I have a bunch of power supplies that I took from full-size PC's but
this PC is one size smaller, 12"x 12 or 13 x 3.5. So they probably
wont' fit, right?

Be careful, some Dells use non-standard wiring of the PSU connector.

If you compare the colours pin for pin, you could test using one of your
spares, even if it meant leaving it outside the case.


I'll definitely remember this advice, without any t rouble, and I can
check the pins. . Thanks and thanks all.

But as I said in another post apparently a lot of software is still
installed. I hope I didn't waste your time. I got a lot out of it.

I'm too tired to reinstall windows again right now, so I think I'll do
what Rene suggests.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 4 Aug 2020 22:09:43 -0500, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:


I see that ones that do fit are only ..... not so cheap. $44 on
Amazon, $20.55 on ebay, ...less for refurbished, which in this case
probably means just "used". What can they refurbish? They blow out the
dust?

You do not want refurbished power supplies.

Okay


Any chance the connectors for those other power supplies I have will fit
and I can just run with one of them (and the cover not on the case)
until I see if it works better with a better PSU? Then I'll buy a new
one. .

The connectors on an ATX drive may or may not be compatible with your
PC, Can't tell without knowing what brand and model of PC and
motherboard you have.

I'll go pin by pin as Andy suggests.


But the advantage is that if there is a hardware problem, and not a
software problem, I can use the disk clone I made just as the problem
was starting, and I'll be back where I was.

Rene


Another way to separate software and hardware problems without
changing hardware is to download a Live Linux distro and install it on a
DVD or Flash drive and see if it runs fine with that, Any distro will
do, a Good small distro is Zenialpup 7.5 , If it crashes with that then
it is probably hardware, If it runs consistently good then it is
probably your Windows setup or other 3rd party software.

This is very intersting, and I'm going to do it even though there is no
special reason to distrust the Hware anymore.

Do Not install the Linux distro to your hard drive, Run it from your DVD
or flash drive.

Gotcha.

Thanks and thanks all.

But as I said in another post apparently a lot of software is still
installed. I hope I didn't waste your time. I got a lot out of it.

I'm too tired to reinstall windows again right now, but I still want to
do the thing above with Zenialpup,

Rene