Win7 won't boot from eSATA dock

On 5/3/2018 10:02 AM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:

When I boot win7 from the external eSATA, I get the normal BIOS
messages, the initial start of windows 7 with the colored balls
swirling around. Then the balls stop moving. A second or so later,
a reboot. No error messages at all.

And that's because, in the System control panel, you haven't
disabled Automatic Restarts.

If there is a BSOD at startup, the system will attempt to automatically
restart. With the drive plugged into a regular SATA port, bring
that disk back up and disable Automatic Restarts. And then you
should get a 0x7b error indicating "Inaccessible Boot Volume".

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-experiences-a


The box shown in this diagram should be unticked.

https://msegceporticoprodassets.blob...s/4056019_en_1


All this will succeed in doing, is verifying the problem is the
usage of the wrong driver. It'll still be up to you to figure out
what driver should have been used, and change the "Start" item to 0
on that driver, so the OS actually attempts to use the driver.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\pciide\Start
== 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\msahci\Start
== 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\iaStorV\Start
== 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\iaStor\Start
== 0

The names of those change from OS to OS, so you must verify the details
for yourself in each case of needing to do that.

You could set the drive up such that it boots again without the ESATA,
do the registry changes, shut down, then plug it into the ESATA
and see if it comes up. Once it comes up, you can inspect any
logs for evidence of what the OS decided to do. (On WinXP you'd use
setupapi.log as a source of evidence, but later OSes reduce the utility
of that log.)

At least some web article claimed you could get the OS into the
right state, by making a traversal to Safe Mode to re-arm the
drivers. I've never tried that.

I have tried safe mode. The screen shows a lot of drivers
getting loaded, then just stops in the middle. I didn't have
any idea what to do with that information. Even if I did
understand, there's nothing I can do about it within the parameters
of my objective: it has to just work without intervention of any kind.

I think I have used re-arm a few times in the past, but haven't
used it recently. Initially, this was a "novelty" compared
to the complete meltdown that such a situation would cause
in WinXP. Fixing a 0x7b on Windows 7 should be a little bit
easier.

Paul
I very much appreciate your willingness to dive deep into this issue.
I fear I'm wasting your time.
While the info you presented here is educational, it doesn't address
the real problem.

I MUST be able to install anything I want onto the eSATA docked drive
and have it just work without any configuration intervention.
This is a test system that must JUST WORK.

Some history/context.

I have a test system (optiplex 360) with an internal Win7 drive and a
plugin SATA drive
socket.
I use the plugin socket most of the time to run/test software.
I have plugin drives for win2K/XP/Vista/Win7/Win10, several linux
distros and android. I can experiment with software without corrupting my
internal drive. If I like the software, I'll commit it to the
appropriate system.
That test system does exactly what I want except when a new install
tries to take over the stuff on the internal disk.

I updated my plugin win10 drive to win10-1803.
The update went fine, but it trashed my internal win7 drive.
I was able to boot macrium rescue and fix the win7 boot issue,
but one of the partitions was also trashed. I tried to fix it
with chkdsk, but chkdsk ran amok and was copying a security
descriptor to every sector. I shut it off after an hour and
reformatted/recovered that partition.

The obvious fix is to unload a shelf, wrangle the side cover off and
disconnect the internal drive when installing/updating OS via the plugin
socket. There's no room in the case for two plugin drive docks.
I can do many things with a USB-connected external drive, but
installing a windows OS isn't one of them. I have an eSATA
card I could plug into this system, if I had a free card slot.

I've become sufficiently
annoyed that I think I'm gonna add a front panel switch that interrupts
power to the internal drive. I was gonna interrupt both +5V and +12V,
but I'm wondering if just cutting ONE of the supplies would work
without damaging the drive or motherboard. Any input on that?

On Tuesday, I found this Optiplex 755 at a thrift store.
It has an external eSATA port that I'd hoped would solve my
OS interaction problems without having to tear apart the case every time.
At the start of this thread, I thought there might be something
I was doing wrong that could address the issue. Subsequent
experiments suggest that the hardware is working fine and
there's nothing to be done to make win7 load/work without
a bunch of fiddling.
It doesn't work for win7 and I don't have a license
for win10. Time to put it on the pile of "close, but no cigar"
projects.

On 5/3/2018 6:02 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , mike writes:
On 5/3/2018 1:48 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , mike
writes:
[]
I've tried it on the dedicated eSATA port and SATA0
Same result.
[]
So it's not just the eSATA that's the problem as stated in the subject?

Problem is win7 with the eSATA (powered) external dock connected to
either
SATA0 or eSATA sockets on the motherboard.

Win 7 SATA drive connected directly to either SATA0 or eSATA motherboard
socket WITHOUT
using the external dock works fine.

Windows 10 and linux work fine no matter which of the motherboard
sockets with or without the external eSATA dock.

There seem to be no logical differences between any of the three
motherboard SATA ports. Paul suggests that the port labeled for eSATA
may have higher drive levels.

The subject line is correct.

But incomplete (-:, as it also won't boot from SATA0 _if_ using the
dock. Will it from SATA1, or isn't there such?
I haven't actually tried SATA1. It's used for the DVD.

Well, we can nitpick the subject line, or we could address the problem.
Fixing the problem described in the subject line is what I need.
Everything else is collateral diagnostic information.

So the problem _combination_ seems to be

o external dock rather than drive connected directly to SATA
yes, per the subject line.
o connected to SATA (I think you said it's fine when connected to USB?)
The drive works fine connected directly to SATA without the dock.
The dock has USB, but I'm not using it in this case. I'm using the eSATA
port on the external docking station.

o Windows 7.
Yes, per the subject line.

Changing ANY one of those three seems to fix it - right?

Nothing fixes the problem described in the subject line.

Win7 boots if I don't use the external eSATA docking station.
Using the external docking station won't boot windows 7.
Using the external docking station with win10 or linux boots fine.

I haven't mentioned it before, but I did update the BIOS to the
latest version with no improvement in the boot situation.

In message , mike
writes:
On 5/3/2018 6:02 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , mike writes:
[]
The subject line is correct.

But incomplete (-:, as it also won't boot from SATA0 _if_ using the
dock. Will it from SATA1, or isn't there such?
I haven't actually tried SATA1. It's used for the DVD.

(Might be worth a try? Or SATA2, 3, ...)

Well, we can nitpick the subject line, or we could address the problem.
Fixing the problem described in the subject line is what I need.
Everything else is collateral diagnostic information.

You have since stated that it also won't boot Windows 7 using the
docking station connected to SATA0, so eSATA is not necessary for the
problem still to show. This may be useful information and thus
important.

(Have you a different _model_ of dock you could try?)

So the problem _combination_ seems to be

o external dock rather than drive connected directly to SATA
yes, per the subject line.
o connected to SATA (I think you said it's fine when connected to USB?)
The drive works fine connected directly to SATA without the dock.
The dock has USB, but I'm not using it in this case. I'm using the eSATA
port on the external docking station.

o Windows 7.
Yes, per the subject line.

Changing ANY one of those three seems to fix it - right?

Nothing fixes the problem described in the subject line.

Yes - three factors: 7, docking station, and one other (which can be
eSATA or SATA0).
[]
I haven't mentioned it before, but I did update the BIOS to the
latest version with no improvement in the boot situation.

Useful info.

You've got a strange one there, given that it _will_ boot W10!

3
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Bread is lovely, don't get me wrong. But it's not cake. Or it's rubbish cake.
I always thought that bread needed more sugar and some icing. - Sarah Millican
(Radio Times 11-17 May 2013)

On Thu, 03 May 2018 13:24:06 -0700, mike wrote:

Nothing fixes the problem described in the subject line.

Win7 boots if I don't use the external eSATA docking station.
Using the external docking station won't boot windows 7.
Using the external docking station with win10 or linux boots fine.

I think everyone's waiting to hear what the error message is when Win 7
won't boot. As Paul suggested, disable the automatic restart so you can
see what's going on. Alternatively, use BlueScreenView from nirsoft.net
to see the details of multiple recent crashes. It's possible that
they'll all have the same root cause, but you never know until you look.


--

Char Jackson

On 5/3/2018 3:37 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2018 13:24:06 -0700, mike wrote:

Nothing fixes the problem described in the subject line.

Win7 boots if I don't use the external eSATA docking station.
Using the external docking station won't boot windows 7.
Using the external docking station with win10 or linux boots fine.

I think everyone's waiting to hear what the error message is when Win 7
won't boot.

I've described it several times.
Power on the computer.
Bios spits out some text
Wait
Swirling colored balls indicate that something related to win7
is being read
from the eSATA connected drive via the external dock.
Wait.
Swirling balls stop swirling.
Wait.
System starts again.
No bluescreen.
No text.
No nothin.
Rinse and repeat.

As Paul suggested, disable the automatic restart so you can
see what's going on.
OK, if the system is hung, where would I look to see what is going on?
And if I don't have the option to change anything, what's the point.
Alternatively, use BlueScreenView from nirsoft.net
OK, how do I execute bluescreenview on a system that won't boot?
to see the details of multiple recent crashes. It's possible that
they'll all have the same root cause, but you never know until you look.

I appreciate the help, but it's not helpful.

I intend to use this system to install win7 onto a hard drive via the
external eSATA dock...more than once.

Unless there's a solution like, "hold the control key while booting",
this computer won't do what I need done. I don't have the desire
to make any, none, not even a little bit of change to the software
that's on the win7 install DVD. The whole idea is to put virgin
software on virgin hardware for testing.

Turns out that the internal hard drive mounting bracket only cost
about as much as the computer, so I ordered one.
Shoulda waited 'till I cancelled the project.

We should let this thread die.
But thanks for trying to help.

On Thu, 03 May 2018 17:42:57 -0700, mike wrote:

On 5/3/2018 3:37 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 03 May 2018 13:24:06 -0700, mike wrote:

Nothing fixes the problem described in the subject line.

Win7 boots if I don't use the external eSATA docking station.
Using the external docking station won't boot windows 7.
Using the external docking station with win10 or linux boots fine.

I think everyone's waiting to hear what the error message is when Win 7
won't boot.

I've described it several times.

You're describing a sequence of events, but you're not providing any
error or crash info. We're trying to help you to do that because you
have to know what the issue is before you have a reasonable chance of
fixing it. See below for steps...

Power on the computer.
Bios spits out some text
Wait
Swirling colored balls indicate that something related to win7
is being read
from the eSATA connected drive via the external dock.
Wait.
Swirling balls stop swirling.
Wait.
System starts again.
No bluescreen.
No text.
No nothin.
Rinse and repeat.

From above, "System starts again" indicates that you have your PC set to
automatically restart after a crash. I believe that's the default, but
it's not a very helpful setting. You can change it by going to
Computer - Properties - Advanced System Settings - find the Startup
and Recovery section (3rd section on that dialog), click Settings, look
halfway down at the System Failure section, find the "Automatically
restart" item, and clear the checkbox on the left. OK your way out.

The result is that any future crash will leave the system at the blue
screen so you can see the error/crash details.

An alternative way to get to that "Automatically restart" setting is to
go to Control Panel - System and drill down from there.

As Paul suggested, disable the automatic restart so you can
see what's going on.

OK, if the system is hung, where would I look to see what is going on?

You're able to boot into Win 7, so you do it then. Once "Automatically
restart" is disabled, you can go back to your eSATA dock exercise and
try to boot. You should then see the blue screen and all of its info.

And if I don't have the option to change anything, what's the point.
Alternatively, use BlueScreenView from nirsoft.net

OK, how do I execute bluescreenview on a system that won't boot?

If you don't want to disable the "Automatically restart" option, you can
run BlueScreenView after the fact, once you're back in Win 7. It will
find and display the dumps created by each of the previous boot
failures. It shows you the blue screens that you never saw because your
system was automatically restarting.


--

Char Jackson

On 04/05/2018 16:16, Char Jackson wrote:

From above, "System starts again" indicates that you have your PC set to
automatically restart after a crash. I believe that's the default, but
it's not a very helpful setting. You can change it by going to
Computer - Properties - Advanced System Settings - find the Startup
and Recovery section (3rd section on that dialog), click Settings, look
halfway down at the System Failure section, find the "Automatically
restart" item, and clear the checkbox on the left. OK your way out.

The result is that any future crash will leave the system at the blue
screen so you can see the error/crash details.

OK, how do I execute bluescreenview on a system that won't boot?

If you don't want to disable the "Automatically restart" option, you can
run BlueScreenView after the fact, once you're back in Win 7. It will
find and display the dumps created by each of the previous boot
failures. It shows you the blue screens that you never saw because your
system was automatically restarting.

But none of that helps him get into his system as it is now!

The way I got over this when last asked to investigate a PC that was
endlessly rebooting like this, was to video the screen with my
smartphone, and then step slowly through the video and freeze it on the
blue screen, enabling me to read it - it was a hard disk error.

Whether this will work for the OP, who hasn't mentioned seeing a flash
of blue, I don't know, but it's easy enough to do and got to be worth a
try first off. Before beginning, make sure the screen has no
reflections from ambient lighting that might obscure any error messages
that get thrown up.

As others have said, the default setting of rebooting automatically
after a blue screen is one of the most idiotic defaults among the many
that Microsoft impose upon hapless users. The moment you get back into
the system, change it to pause after a boot error, as per the
instructions already given by others.

On Fri, 4 May 2018 16:32:55 +0100, Java Jive
wrote:

On 04/05/2018 16:16, Char Jackson wrote:

From above, "System starts again" indicates that you have your PC set to
automatically restart after a crash. I believe that's the default, but
it's not a very helpful setting. You can change it by going to
Computer - Properties - Advanced System Settings - find the Startup
and Recovery section (3rd section on that dialog), click Settings, look
halfway down at the System Failure section, find the "Automatically
restart" item, and clear the checkbox on the left. OK your way out.

The result is that any future crash will leave the system at the blue
screen so you can see the error/crash details.

OK, how do I execute bluescreenview on a system that won't boot?

If you don't want to disable the "Automatically restart" option, you can
run BlueScreenView after the fact, once you're back in Win 7. It will
find and display the dumps created by each of the previous boot
failures. It shows you the blue screens that you never saw because your
system was automatically restarting.

But none of that helps him get into his system as it is now!

My impression is that he can boot into Win 7 anytime he wants by simply
connecting to the SATA0 port rather than the eSATA port. Some of the
info he provides is confusing, so I could be wrong.

If he can boot into Win 7 by connecting the drive to SATA0, he can
either make the change to disable automatic restarts, or he can run
BlueScreenView to see all of the previous crash info.

--

Char Jackson

Java Jive wrote:
On 04/05/2018 16:16, Char Jackson wrote:

From above, "System starts again" indicates that you have your PC set to
automatically restart after a crash. I believe that's the default, but
it's not a very helpful setting. You can change it by going to
Computer - Properties - Advanced System Settings - find the Startup
and Recovery section (3rd section on that dialog), click Settings, look
halfway down at the System Failure section, find the "Automatically
restart" item, and clear the checkbox on the left. OK your way out.

The result is that any future crash will leave the system at the blue
screen so you can see the error/crash details.

OK, how do I execute bluescreenview on a system that won't boot?

If you don't want to disable the "Automatically restart" option, you can
run BlueScreenView after the fact, once you're back in Win 7. It will
find and display the dumps created by each of the previous boot
failures. It shows you the blue screens that you never saw because your
system was automatically restarting.

But none of that helps him get into his system as it is now!

The way I got over this when last asked to investigate a PC that was
endlessly rebooting like this, was to video the screen with my
smartphone, and then step slowly through the video and freeze it on the
blue screen, enabling me to read it - it was a hard disk error.

Whether this will work for the OP, who hasn't mentioned seeing a flash
of blue, I don't know, but it's easy enough to do and got to be worth a
try first off. Before beginning, make sure the screen has no
reflections from ambient lighting that might obscure any error messages
that get thrown up.

As others have said, the default setting of rebooting automatically
after a blue screen is one of the most idiotic defaults among the many
that Microsoft impose upon hapless users. The moment you get back into
the system, change it to pause after a boot error, as per the
instructions already given by others.

That's why I specifically suggests changing the Automatically Restart
setting. If an OP reports seeing a "blue screen flash",
then I'd suggest shooting video and scrolling through
it slowly in a video editor until you can see the
error number.

But with no indication of a blue screen or the flashing thing,
booting it using the internal SATA cable, changing the system
setting, putting it back in the ESATA case, should make the blue
screen (BSOD) stay on the screen forever. No video needed.

The ESATA bracket in that system, can be plugged into the
Southbridge, or into some addon chip. There is an addon chip,
like maybe a VIA chip or a JMB361, that a user could plug
the bracket into its SATA port. As long as the OS
has the driver for *both* pieces of hardware, it should
have worked.

If the ESATA adapter plate was plugged into a Southbridge
port, then while the disk is booted on a SATA port,
you could set all these to zero, then shutdown and
move the disk back to the external ESATA casing. This
should be enough to cover anything Intel can throw at you.
I don't know how a VIA or JMB361 would be handled,
with respect to this issue.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\pciide\Start == 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\msahci\Start == 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\iaStorV\Start == 0
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\iaStor\Start == 0

The situation here is "debug-able" since the OP appears to
be able to boot the disk in question, by putting it
back on an internal SATA port. Presumably the Intel
Southbridge SATA port.

The purpose of debugging problems, isn't always "local optimization".
Sometimes you want to succeed at it, so you can handle the problem
the *next* time it happens. And then you know what to do.

Paul

mike wrote:


Stuck the drive back into the external dock.
Boot stops with blue screen.
Error *7B
0xFFFFF88009A9928
0xFFFFFFFFC0000034
0x0000000000000000,0X0000000000000000,(0X000000000 0000000)

I wasted $13. It's the risk I take when buying
junk computers. I'm moving on to the next junk computer. ;-)

Thanks for trying to help.

So it's an inaccessible boot volume, and it needs (some) driver.

When you look in Device Manager, while the disk is booted on
a regular SATA port, which hardwares don't currently have
drivers in Device Manager ?

When you booted Linux and everything was ticking over, did
Linux provide any info about that port ? While DMESG shows
some info, I don't know if it'll tell you enough to conclude
what kind of Windows driver needs to be added to the
Windows OS.

Now, you've learned two things you can use the next time.

1) How to prevent the thing from instantly rebooting when
the notion enters its mind. Yes, the video camera method
works - I've used it to freeze the single frame of BSOD
before it disappears from the screen. But with the
tick box method of stopping it, you can examine the
error message at leisure.

2) That a 0x7B indicates the OS is missing a driver.
The BIOS provides an INT 0x13 disk read routine, which
is how the booting process first starts reading the disk.
However, there is a "handoff" point, where the thing
switches from BIOS "drivers" to actual OS drivers. And
that's the time the Inaccessible Boot Disk error makes
it's appearance.

http://aumha.org/a/stop.htm

I've seen similar things in other boot cases on a computer.
A stupid OS will be booting from a DVD, and then all of a
sudden will say "cannot find DVD". And you have to use
a command line "trick" to tell it to use the DVD drive
to read the DVD. You can't make this stuff up, it's
so corny.

Paul