Converting From 1 TB to 2 TB via Macrium Reflect Re-Image: Partitions?

Steve Hayes wrote:

Mayayana wrote:

I especially like to get rid of the system partition
because I don't want a pointless, dangling dependency
for disk images. And the restore partition is pointless
once a disk image backup is made.

Unless you want to sell the computer, then you can use the restore
partition.

Create an image the moment you get it. The imaged OS partition is the
same as the one the recovery image/setup will create. Since you have
your own image (and NOT on the same HDD that can die taking both the OS
partition and recovery partition), you don't need to waste space or add
confusion with a recovery partition. If you want to resell the computer
with exactly the same setup, well, include ALL partitions in an image
backup of the initial/factory-time disk state.

Too often the recovery "image" is a customized setup program. You end
up reinstalling the OS instead of restoring an image. Setup takes a lot
longer than just a reimage.

Create your own image backup. Then you don't have to hope the recovery
partition still exists, that it still contains the recovery program, and
that the factory-time recovery succeeds.

---

Not a valid signature delimiter line, and you know it!

Ignore the following - it's spammers for spambot fodder.

bunch of email address

Ah, so you didn't reply to help or discuss. You just wanted to spam
here to Joe Job some e-mail addresses. Stalkers are as much trolls as
those who they stalk.

VanguardLH wrote:
Steve Hayes wrote:

Mayayana wrote:

I especially like to get rid of the system partition
because I don't want a pointless, dangling dependency
for disk images. And the restore partition is pointless
once a disk image backup is made.

Unless you want to sell the computer, then you can use the restore
partition.

Create an image the moment you get it. The imaged OS partition is the
same as the one the recovery image/setup will create. Since you have
your own image (and NOT on the same HDD that can die taking both the OS
partition and recovery partition), you don't need to waste space or add
confusion with a recovery partition. If you want to resell the computer
with exactly the same setup, well, include ALL partitions in an image
backup of the initial/factory-time disk state.

Too often the recovery "image" is a customized setup program. You end
up reinstalling the OS instead of restoring an image. Setup takes a lot
longer than just a reimage.

Create your own image backup. Then you don't have to hope the recovery
partition still exists, that it still contains the recovery program, and
that the factory-time recovery succeeds.

---

Not a valid signature delimiter line, and you know it!

Ignore the following - it's spammers for spambot fodder.

bunch of email address

Ah, so you didn't reply to help or discuss. You just wanted to spam
here to Joe Job some e-mail addresses. Stalkers are as much trolls as
those who they stalk.


When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account
creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium).
Your solution would restore that account.

Ed

"Ed Cryer" wrote

| When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account
| creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium).
| Your solution would restore that account.
|

Does anyone actually create accounts? I never have.
I don't have any computers with user logon and never
have.
And how many people actually want to give away
their computer with an official HP logo on the desktop?
That's like giving away pans or clothes without washing
them first. The logo is merely an unsightly ad.

If someone really wants to do that because they view an
HP logo as an anti-cootie guarantee, then they can make
restore DVDs. There's still no need to leave the restore
partition.

If it were me and I were giving away the computer,
I'd do a basic cleanup of ads and shovelware before
giving it away. Then I'd make a disk image of that.
I do the same for friends whose computers are messed
up: Do a factory restore, clean that up, then set up
basic, default programs, like Firefox, Thunderbird and
IrfanView. I usually also try to set them up with some
kind of basic, free AV. In other words, I maximize
security, privacy and functionality as much as possible
for people who don't know how to do it for themselves.

Some people might say, "But what if they want Chrome?"
In my experience most people don't know about software
programs. They don't like Chrome or Edge. They get
tricked into Chrome or Edge. I try to install the most basic,
useful and non-sleazy software to get people started,
knowing that they're unlikely to ever change anything
once I give them back their computer. Chrome is out
because it's Google spyware. I manage browser settings
for the same reason. The typical person is getting Google
as default search in a browser with a sneaky "awesome
bar" that sends every URL to Google. People have actually
been de-educated so that they get to Sears.com by typing
Sears and going to Google, no longer understanding that
Sears has a dedicated URL. So Google gets a full report of
their online activity. No wonder they're willing to pay $1
per install to be the default search engine. (Google is
currently paying about $3B/tear to Apple alone, just to
be the default search on Safari.)

All of that is to say that a typical computer these days
is a minefield of sleaze that most people don't know how
to clean up. Most people don't even know it's happening.
People tend to be trusting about things they don't
understand. That's a big part of Microsoft getting away
with their claim that by using Windows you're operating
on their private property, subject to their terms. Most
people will just take that claim at face value.

The last time my very elderly father had a computer
he got angry because it came with MS Office but after
3 months they wanted him to pay for it. Those cheats!
It was supposed to come with the computer!
Of course it probably said in the fine print on the case
that it was a 3-month *trial*, but companies like MS
depend on customers misunderstanding. Otherwise there
wouldn't be big, bright stickers with tiny fine print on
computer cases.

I can still remember my own view before I got a
computer. I thought the people at Microsoft were
scientists in lab coats. The Intel ads helped to create
that image. As did Symantec. Who wouldn't trust Albert
Einstein or Jonas Salk to set up their computer? That's
what people are up against. Flim flam artists using
big words and pretending to be Jonas Salk. And with
an OEM box it's coming from both sides. The OEM
company is pretending they built the computer while
companies buy access to install their shovelware.
The whole thing is designed to milk the customer.

And that includes the factory restore partition. Most
people never realize it's there. Something goes wrong
and they throw away their computer. Microsoft and
the OEMs knew what they were doing in eliminating
restore disks. It wasn't to save 50 cents. It was part
of a well-planned, longterm scam to acclimate people
to the idea that the OS is part of the hardware.

Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote

| When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account
| creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium).
| Your solution would restore that account.
|

Does anyone actually create accounts? I never have.
I don't have any computers with user logon and never
have.
And how many people actually want to give away
their computer with an official HP logo on the desktop?
That's like giving away pans or clothes without washing
them first. The logo is merely an unsightly ad.

If someone really wants to do that because they view an
HP logo as an anti-cootie guarantee, then they can make
restore DVDs. There's still no need to leave the restore
partition.

If it were me and I were giving away the computer,
I'd do a basic cleanup of ads and shovelware before
giving it away. Then I'd make a disk image of that.
I do the same for friends whose computers are messed
up: Do a factory restore, clean that up, then set up
basic, default programs, like Firefox, Thunderbird and
IrfanView. I usually also try to set them up with some
kind of basic, free AV. In other words, I maximize
security, privacy and functionality as much as possible
for people who don't know how to do it for themselves.

Some people might say, "But what if they want Chrome?"
In my experience most people don't know about software
programs. They don't like Chrome or Edge. They get
tricked into Chrome or Edge. I try to install the most basic,
useful and non-sleazy software to get people started,
knowing that they're unlikely to ever change anything
once I give them back their computer. Chrome is out
because it's Google spyware. I manage browser settings
for the same reason. The typical person is getting Google
as default search in a browser with a sneaky "awesome
bar" that sends every URL to Google. People have actually
been de-educated so that they get to Sears.com by typing
Sears and going to Google, no longer understanding that
Sears has a dedicated URL. So Google gets a full report of
their online activity. No wonder they're willing to pay $1
per install to be the default search engine. (Google is
currently paying about $3B/tear to Apple alone, just to
be the default search on Safari.)

All of that is to say that a typical computer these days
is a minefield of sleaze that most people don't know how
to clean up. Most people don't even know it's happening.
People tend to be trusting about things they don't
understand. That's a big part of Microsoft getting away
with their claim that by using Windows you're operating
on their private property, subject to their terms. Most
people will just take that claim at face value.

The last time my very elderly father had a computer
he got angry because it came with MS Office but after
3 months they wanted him to pay for it. Those cheats!
It was supposed to come with the computer!
Of course it probably said in the fine print on the case
that it was a 3-month *trial*, but companies like MS
depend on customers misunderstanding. Otherwise there
wouldn't be big, bright stickers with tiny fine print on
computer cases.

I can still remember my own view before I got a
computer. I thought the people at Microsoft were
scientists in lab coats. The Intel ads helped to create
that image. As did Symantec. Who wouldn't trust Albert
Einstein or Jonas Salk to set up their computer? That's
what people are up against. Flim flam artists using
big words and pretending to be Jonas Salk. And with
an OEM box it's coming from both sides. The OEM
company is pretending they built the computer while
companies buy access to install their shovelware.
The whole thing is designed to milk the customer.

And that includes the factory restore partition. Most
people never realize it's there. Something goes wrong
and they throw away their computer. Microsoft and
the OEMs knew what they were doing in eliminating
restore disks. It wasn't to save 50 cents. It was part
of a well-planned, longterm scam to acclimate people
to the idea that the OS is part of the hardware.




None of which will get a "factory restore"; something that is handled by
software that comes with the OEM machine; HP Recovery Management, Acer
Recovery M.... etc. And how does that work? It resets the whole HD from
the Recovery Partition.

Now, wait a minute. You're like me. You have an understanding of these
devilish things that most don't. You can think way outside the box, take
advantage of your broader insight, and personalise everything to your
heart's content.

One thing I didn't read in your tirade was this situation, one that
applies to this very PC I'm typing on now. The hardware has been
radically updated since it came from the factory, and a factory reset
would battle with that; DVD changed to Bluray, large SSD replaced HD,
more RAM; drivers and updated progs.

A factory-reset is something I'd never do. But how am I going to pass my
higher insight on to the millions who have PCs? How can I instill in
them all the competence I've acquired professionally? While I was
programming computers for a living, others were teaching kids, running
shops, selling insurance. And those millions need a simple road-map.
Those millions are the ones MS have in mind when they plan things like
forced OS updates and forced AV updates.
And a "factory reset" comes under the heading of these things. It's
designed and intended to help "the average user".

Ed

"Ed Cryer" wrote

| None of which will get a "factory restore"; something that is handled by
| software that comes with the OEM machine;

I already explained that. You have two options
(assuming for some strange reason you actually
want a "pure" factory restore):

1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm
not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such.
I'm talking about an actual image of C drive.

2) Create restore DVDs. Don't all newer computers
have the option to create a DVD to do factory
restore? That was my understanding. Otherwise
your ability to keep using the machine depends on
the survival of your hard disk, which is a crazy
risk to take.

A third option is to download an ISO from MS and
use your OEM key with it. I did that recently with
a Win8 laptop that had a failed hard disk. I had to
jump through some hoops to get the ISO, but I got
it, it's legal, and it validated just fine.

In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
[]
When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account
creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium).
Your solution would restore that account.

Ed



What if you don't install Macrium, but use a Macrium boot CD that you
made earlier on another machine: if you image a brand new OEM PC
(imaging all "partitions" that are there), and later restore from that
image, will the OEM PC appear as at initial setup (e. g. ask you to
choose partition sizes or whatever initial setup does)?

(The only time I've ever used the _installed_ version of Macrium was to
make the CD in the first place [I think, other than just copying a CD
you'd made already, you _have_ to run the software to make the CD]; when
making images, I always boot from the CD. I haven't even installed
Macrium on this PC.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

While no one was paying attention, weather reports became accurate and the
news became fiction. Did not see that coming. - Scott Adams, 2015

On 6/21/2018 2:57 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote

| None of which will get a "factory restore"; something that is handled by
| software that comes with the OEM machine;

I already explained that. You have two options
(assuming for some strange reason you actually
want a "pure" factory restore):

1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm
not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such.
I'm talking about an actual image of C drive.

Sounds like you might not be familiar with the fact that Macrium is the
clear favorite around the Windows groups for making disk (volume)
images. When you talk about making an image, most people will reach for
their installed copy of Macrium Reflect Free.


2) Create restore DVDs. Don't all newer computers
have the option to create a DVD to do factory
restore? That was my understanding. Otherwise
your ability to keep using the machine depends on
the survival of your hard disk, which is a crazy
risk to take.

Ahem, see your 3rd option. ;-)


A third option is to download an ISO from MS and
use your OEM key with it. I did that recently with
a Win8 laptop that had a failed hard disk. I had to
jump through some hoops to get the ISO, but I got
it, it's legal, and it validated just fine.

Everyone should have an image on hand, just in case, just like everyone
should have an ISO on hand, just in case. Not everyone does, of course.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
[]
When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account
creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium).
Your solution would restore that account.

Ed



What if you don't install Macrium, but use a Macrium boot CD that you
made earlier on another machine: if you image a brand new OEM PC
(imaging all "partitions" that are there), and later restore from that
image, will the OEM PC appear as at initial setup (e. g. ask you to
choose partition sizes or whatever initial setup does)?

(The only time I've ever used the _installed_ version of Macrium was to
make the CD in the first place [I think, other than just copying a CD
you'd made already, you _have_ to run the software to make the CD]; when
making images, I always boot from the CD. I haven't even installed
Macrium on this PC.)

I really don't know if that would work.

Switch on your new OEM PC and it goes straight into its Windows setup;
takes all your details and preferences, trundles away, gives you control
within the account it's created.

Your suggestion means that you'd have to switch on your new OEM PC,
change boot sequence, reboot with Macrium disc in.
I suppose that if that worked, then yes, you could image the pristine
disc. But I don't know if the way the OEM has set it up would allow it.

Anyway, I have another suggestion.
Do full setup; do whatever else you want to do. Load all your stuff.
And then, whenever you want, take an image of just the Recovery partition.

Ed

"bounder" wrote

|
| 1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm
| not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such.
| I'm talking about an actual image of C drive.
|
| Sounds like you might not be familiar with the fact that Macrium is the
| clear favorite around the Windows groups for making disk (volume)
| images. When you talk about making an image, most people will reach for
| their installed copy of Macrium Reflect Free.
|

See the new posts from John and Ed. Ed seems
to think Macrium is for backup rather than imaging.
Not everyone knows the difference or agrees on
what it is. I've never used Macrium, so I don't
know what it can or can't do. I'm just trying to
clarify that any system can be imaged. (And as
you said, should be.)

That seems to be another issue that confuses
things. Originally there was the idea of disk images.
Then people started making images with incremental
updating, which is not really a case of using disk
images. It's just a complicated method of backup.
I get the impression that these days most people
who think they're making disk images are actually
just using a backup program -- like a homemade
version of System Restore.

Ed Cryer wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
[]
When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account
creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium).
Your solution would restore that account.

Ed



What if you don't install Macrium, but use a Macrium boot CD that you
made earlier on another machine: if you image a brand new OEM PC
(imaging all "partitions" that are there), and later restore from that
image, will the OEM PC appear as at initial setup (e. g. ask you to
choose partition sizes or whatever initial setup does)?

(The only time I've ever used the _installed_ version of Macrium was
to make the CD in the first place [I think, other than just copying a
CD you'd made already, you _have_ to run the software to make the CD];
when making images, I always boot from the CD. I haven't even
installed Macrium on this PC.)

I really don't know if that would work.

Switch on your new OEM PC and it goes straight into its Windows setup;
takes all your details and preferences, trundles away, gives you control
within the account it's created.

Your suggestion means that you'd have to switch on your new OEM PC,
change boot sequence, reboot with Macrium disc in.
I suppose that if that worked, then yes, you could image the pristine
disc. But I don't know if the way the OEM has set it up would allow it.

Anyway, I have another suggestion.
Do full setup; do whatever else you want to do. Load all your stuff.
And then, whenever you want, take an image of just the Recovery partition.

Ed


Keywords:

sysprep
generalize
sealing
oobe (Out Of the Box Experience)

It's possible to put an OS back into a factory state,
if you're an IT guy, loaded WADK onto your technician
machine and worked on the C: image.

I think you can load WADK onto the C: of the technician
machine, then bring over a laptop drive and put it
back in the OOBE state.

I've never done any of this stuff, so can't help
with details.

If I have my factory restore partition, my DVD set
I made when the machine was new, my Macrium backup
early in the life of the product, I probably no longer
care about the issue. As I have "belt and suspenders",
and couldn't give a damn about a 12GB partition still
being there. My assumption is, I will drop dead, and
if someone picks up the laptop, and sees the factory
restore, they can prepare the machine for easy disposal.

Now, if it was a tablet with eMMC, that would be an
entirely different handling case. One of the reasons
I don't own a tablet, is I "don't want to learn how
to maintain a tablet". Desktops are just too easy.

Paul

In message , bounder
writes:
On 6/21/2018 2:57 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ed Cryer" wrote

| None of which will get a "factory restore"; something that is
|handled by
| software that comes with the OEM machine;
I already explained that. You have two options
(assuming for some strange reason you actually
want a "pure" factory restore):
1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm
not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such.
I'm talking about an actual image of C drive.

Sounds like you might not be familiar with the fact that Macrium is the
clear favorite around the Windows groups for making disk (volume)
images. When you talk about making an image, most people will reach for
their installed copy of Macrium Reflect Free.
[]
Yes, that does seem to be most people's option. I reach for my Macrium
boot CD.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy
Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17

In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
[]
When you set up a brand new OEM PC, it takes you through account
creation before you can do anything (even install Macrium).
Your solution would restore that account.

Ed



What if you don't install Macrium, but use a Macrium boot CD that you
made earlier on another machine: if you image a brand new OEM PC
[]
Your suggestion means that you'd have to switch on your new OEM PC,
change boot sequence, reboot with Macrium disc in.

Ah, you may be right: I was assuming that new machines defaulted to
boot-from-CD-if-there's-one-there; I may be well wrong about that. (And
yes, you would have to turn it on briefly to use the eject button so you
could actually put the CD in, unless you used the paperclip hole.)

I suppose that if that worked, then yes, you could image the pristine
disc. But I don't know if the way the OEM has set it up would allow it.

Me neither.

Anyway, I have another suggestion.
Do full setup; do whatever else you want to do. Load all your stuff.
And then, whenever you want, take an image of just the Recovery partition.

That's the more normal situation. I was thinking about people who might
want to sell/give away PCs in "as new" condition; I can't see me ever
doing that (in much the same way as I run my cars into the ground,
rather than selling them).

Ed

John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy
Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"bounder" wrote

|
| 1) Do a restore and then make a disk image. I'm
| not talking about a backup by Macrium or some such.
| I'm talking about an actual image of C drive.
|
| Sounds like you might not be familiar with the fact that Macrium is the
| clear favorite around the Windows groups for making disk (volume)
| images. When you talk about making an image, most people will reach for
| their installed copy of Macrium Reflect Free.
|

See the new posts from John and Ed. Ed seems
to think Macrium is for backup rather than imaging.
Not everyone knows the difference or agrees on
what it is. I've never used Macrium, so I don't
know what it can or can't do. I'm just trying to
clarify that any system can be imaged. (And as
you said, should be.)

Macrium Reflect Free is basically an imaging tool (that can also,
obviously, restore from those images, if you use the CD you can make
from it). You pick which partitions - including hidden ones - and it
makes a single file (of extension .mrimg - Macrium Reflect Image) from
them; by default, only the parts that actually have data on, so the
image file is smaller than the partitions being imaged. (It also can -
does by default - do some compression too.) When such an image is
restored to a new disc, the partitions, boot sector, etc., are restored
as they were, i. e. the restored disc is bootable.

(At least, that's my experience imaging all but my data partition; I
don't know what it does if you "image" only a data partition. I don't
use it for that, I use synctoy.)

That seems to be another issue that confuses
things. Originally there was the idea of disk images.
Then people started making images with incremental
updating, which is not really a case of using disk
images. It's just a complicated method of backup.

Well, the initial one may be an image as you and I understand the term.

I get the impression that these days most people
who think they're making disk images are actually
just using a backup program -- like a homemade
version of System Restore.


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy
Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
If I have my factory restore partition, my DVD set
I made when the machine was new, my Macrium backup
early in the life of the product, I probably no longer
care about the issue. As I have "belt and suspenders",
and couldn't give a damn about a 12GB partition still
being there. My assumption is, I will drop dead, and
if someone picks up the laptop, and sees the factory
restore, they can prepare the machine for easy disposal.

Now, if it was a tablet with eMMC, that would be an
entirely different handling case. One of the reasons
I don't own a tablet, is I "don't want to learn how
to maintain a tablet". Desktops are just too easy.

Well, and laptops.

Like you, I haven't learnt how to play with tablets yet. (Unless you
count a smartphone, and I _really_ haven't learnt how to do much with
that either.)

Paul
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy
Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17

On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 23:09:59 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

Macrium Reflect Free is basically an imaging tool (that can also,
obviously, restore from those images, if you use the CD you can make
from it). You pick which partitions - including hidden ones - and it
makes a single file (of extension .mrimg - Macrium Reflect Image) from
them; by default, only the parts that actually have data on, so the
image file is smaller than the partitions being imaged. (It also can -
does by default - do some compression too.) When such an image is
restored to a new disc, the partitions, boot sector, etc., are restored
as they were, i. e. the restored disc is bootable.

For completeness of the discussion, it's also a disk cloning tool. For
every disk/volume/partition (they play a bit loose with the
terminology), they provide the option to "Image this disk..." or to
"Clone this disk...". For a disk with multiple volumes, you can select
all volumes or a lesser number.

--

Char Jackson