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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Neil Obstat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.

Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated graphics in
certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could not be saved to
the selected location." I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I looked for
the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's part of what the
error message says. It uses those very words. I even checked to make sure
I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that text would be present
SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the section for Internet Explorer
6, the program that gives me the error message. Nope. No such luck.
Apparently your error messages do not coordinate with your knowledge base.
That would be helpful.

Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The "selecte(oops, hang
on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE I WAS IN
THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that, Microsoft!)d location"
has nothing to do with the error. No matter where I try to save the page,
no luck. I believe, from what I read before (from your knowledge base,
unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to do with an update that was
released at some point for Internet Explorer. I guess my original question
was, are you going to get around to fixing this at any point? I mean, I
know you know the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being able to save
the occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it doesn't
work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if, having broken
it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that you had broken it,
you were planning on doing anything about it.

And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm supposed to get
to ask you a question. But as every single technical operative at your
company is more important than the Wizard of Oz, this proved completely
impossible. I bought my computer from Dell. Dell's a fine company. But
because I did that, you won't let me ask you about the product. You told
me to go to Dell. As it were.

Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No, Dell did
not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask Dell? Dell
doesn't know what you've done.

Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux. Other
people do still make operating systems out there, don't they? I might've
liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix or some such
thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since you're the big game
in town I have to buy your software with the system. Dell has a deal with
you. Dell paid something for that software, maybe not retail, but
something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me for nothing. So if I buy
a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I would like
Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way, I cannot
get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here.

I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I decided
to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I installed it.
It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an OEM version. Meaning
it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN to purchase. There was a
rebate. It was free, after the rebate.

Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At this
point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any sense of
responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the world, you great
jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at yours every
damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or occasionally on a
soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.

Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet Explorer"
(wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean instead of "Windows
XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told (drumroll, please)...you don't
offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once again.
Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this country." Okay.

I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I went through
every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call you on the phone!
That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you tell me to go to Dell
for support on a product YOU wrote and published. Cool.

But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your "communities"
for support. That's where I found a really neat-o looking page full of
bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an advertisement. Like most of
your products do, these days. Did I see any place for me to submit a
question for the consideration of the "community?" I bet you can figure
out the answer to that.

I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups. Ninety
trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated, script-ridden, cookie-
filled web page, and you send people to the newsgroups. Yessir, doesn't
get much more modern than a newsgroup. Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use newsgroups.
But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't deserve technical
help, do they? They only shelled out money for your software, or for a
computer which came with mandatorily-installed copies of some of your
software.

Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour before.
Elegant.

And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped! "Coming
Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott explains how to use
the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party back up tools to protect
essential data." Well, that would have been useful before last week, when
the partition table on my main data drive decided to go south and take out
a year's worth of projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't even
planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't need me
bothering you with my little problems.

(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the drive "is
not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay because I'm
smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I like knowing I can
make my computer's life a little easier.)

Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions, you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar references
just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID you won't
support...in this country. I had to create a stinking Hotmail account just
so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even take a look at the useless
support page that wound up helping me not one whit. (A Passport ID which
is now linked to my user account on this computer. Super. Thanks for
that.) That, of course, involved trudging through 15 pages of "which of
these newsletters would you like to subscribe to" and "please tell us all
your hobbies." So I can get an email account. (But not one with
"Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that to screw
people, and that job's been filled already. That, or else my name is
really William Gates, although surely there could only be one in the whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad you've taken
such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have me click
inside little square boxes in order that you may learn about the
intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated life. You really do
care!

Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft?

Neil Obstat
Ads
  #2  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Mike Brannigan [MSFT]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat" wrote in
message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.


This is not a statement that is condusive to those who may to provide
support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff)

Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated graphics in
certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could not be saved to
the selected location."


Can you please supply which pages you are having problems with.

Are you Save As. Web page complete.
This creates an addtional folder below the locvation you are saving to that
contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure you have permissions to
creat this addtional folder for the page you are Saving.

Also try the Save As single file. This produces a MHT file with all the
content embedded.

On the sites I have tried this on the Save As single file produced better
results (www.ibm.com was one test that worked better as single file)

I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I looked

for
the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's part of what the
error message says. It uses those very words. I even checked to make

sure
I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that text would be present
SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the section for Internet Explorer
6, the program that gives me the error message. Nope. No such luck.
Apparently your error messages do not coordinate with your knowledge base.
That would be helpful.


The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase.
If you go to the Knowledgebase at
http://support.microsoft.com/
Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database (Knowledge Base)
Just leave the Select your Product as the default - All Microsoft Search
topics-
enter
"The web page could not be saved to " in to the For Solution containing
and Using ... The exact phrase entered

Produces one result
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235589

Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it relevent to you ??


Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The "selecte(oops, hang
on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE I WAS IN
THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that, Microsoft!)d

location"
has nothing to do with the error. No matter where I try to save the page,
no luck. I believe, from what I read before (from your knowledge base,
unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to do with an update that was
released at some point for Internet Explorer. I guess my original

question
was, are you going to get around to fixing this at any point? I mean, I
know you know the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being able to

save
the occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it doesn't
work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if, having broken
it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that you had broken it,
you were planning on doing anything about it.


Which pages are problematic and are any releated to the KB article I found.

And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm supposed to get
to ask you a question. But as every single technical operative at your
company is more important than the Wizard of Oz, this proved completely
impossible. I bought my computer from Dell. Dell's a fine company. But
because I did that, you won't let me ask you about the product. You told
me to go to Dell. As it were.


The support for OEM products is the responsibility of the OEM.
It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of Windows XP on it - it is up to
Dell to provide you with support.

Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No, Dell

did
not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask Dell? Dell
doesn't know what you've done.


Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS and have access to technical
data that Microsoft support personnel do. In addition since it is an OEM
machine and OS Dell may have modified the system and as such are the only
ones who can provide the required support.
Dell do and can know "what we have done"

Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux. Other
people do still make operating systems out there, don't they? I might've
liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix or some such
thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since you're the big game
in town I have to buy your software with the system. Dell has a deal with
you. Dell paid something for that software, maybe not retail, but
something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me for nothing. So if I buy
a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I would like
Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way, I

cannot
get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here.


You can purchase a device from other vendors with other opertaing systems or
non at all.
You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an OEM product on PCs they
ship.
See comment above about OEM support.
If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to your requirements (including)
choice of OS then you can go elsewhere.

I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I decided
to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I installed it.
It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an OEM version. Meaning
it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN to purchase. There was a
rebate. It was free, after the rebate.


Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM product = support by OEM.

Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At this
point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any sense of
responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the world, you

great
jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at yours every
damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or occasionally on a
soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.



Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet Explorer"
(wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean instead of "Windows
XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told (drumroll, please)...you don't
offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once again.
Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this country." Okay.


Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the country where you reside ? Was
it a grey import ?
If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then we may have a problem
(please note the use of USA is just an example,as you do not state where you
are.)

I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I went

through
every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call you on the

phone!
That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you tell me to go to Dell
for support on a product YOU wrote and published. Cool.


Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM onto their machines and
possibly modify or augment. They then trained the support personnel to
provide the necessary support on the product.
They also have routes back into us for issues they cannot resolve and also
to raise bugs etc should that be needed.

But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your "communities"
for support. That's where I found a really neat-o looking page full of
bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an advertisement. Like most of
your products do, these days. Did I see any place for me to submit a
question for the consideration of the "community?" I bet you can figure
out the answer to that.

Do you mean here
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
or
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx

Both result in Web based access to these newsgroups.

I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups. Ninety
trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated, script-ridden, cookie-
filled web page, and you send people to the newsgroups. Yessir, doesn't
get much more modern than a newsgroup.


What would you prefer?
This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer support community that the
technical community operate in.

Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use newsgroups.
But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't deserve technical
help, do they? They only shelled out money for your software, or for a
computer which came with mandatorily-installed copies of some of your
software.


We offer technical support as detailed for retail customers. OEMs provide
support for their OEM supplied products.

There is no technology required - we offer a Web interface; as well as
advice on setting up real newsreader programs.

Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour before.
Elegant.


Yes - since some people arrive at the communities via other routes and then
may want to search the knowledgebase or access other support services. The
web is not a linear construct people enter from various directions.

And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped! "Coming
Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott explains how to use
the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party back up tools to protect
essential data." Well, that would have been useful before last week, when
the partition table on my main data drive decided to go south and take out
a year's worth of projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable

personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't even
planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't need me
bothering you with my little problems.


If you have lost a significant amount of important data because you made no
effort to protect it through the use of appropriate software (backup or
otherwise) - then this is not our fault.

(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the drive "is
not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay because

I'm
smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I like knowing I can
make my computer's life a little easier.)


ok

Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions, you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar references
just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID you won't
support...in this country. I had to create a stinking Hotmail account

just
so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even take a look at the useless
support page that wound up helping me not one whit. (A Passport ID which
is now linked to my user account on this computer. Super. Thanks for
that.) That, of course, involved trudging through 15 pages of "which of
these newsletters would you like to subscribe to" and "please tell us all
your hobbies." So I can get an email account. (But not one with
"Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that to screw
people, and that job's been filled already. That, or else my name is
really William Gates, although surely there could only be one in the whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad you've taken
such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have me click
inside little square boxes in order that you may learn about the
intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated life. You really

do
care!


Yes - we do.

Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft?

Neil Obstat




  #3  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Amethyst
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Mike Brannigan [MSFT] wrote:
Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike

"Neil Obstat" wrote
in message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I
am supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.


This is not a statement that is condusive to those who may to provide
support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff)

Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated
graphics in certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could
not be saved to the selected location."


Can you please supply which pages you are having problems with.

Are you Save As. Web page complete.
This creates an addtional folder below the locvation you are saving
to that contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure you have
permissions to creat this addtional folder for the page you are
Saving.

Also try the Save As single file. This produces a MHT file with all
the content embedded.

On the sites I have tried this on the Save As single file produced
better results (www.ibm.com was one test that worked better as single
file)

I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I
looked for the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's
part of what the error message says. It uses those very words. I
even checked to make sure I spelled it exactly right. Seems like
that text would be present SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under
the section for Internet Explorer 6, the program that gives me the
error message. Nope. No such luck. Apparently your error messages
do not coordinate with your knowledge base. That would be helpful.


The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase.
If you go to the Knowledgebase at
http://support.microsoft.com/
Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database (Knowledge Base)
Just leave the Select your Product as the default - All Microsoft
Search topics-
enter
"The web page could not be saved to " in to the For Solution
containing
and Using ... The exact phrase entered

Produces one result
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235589

Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it relevent to you ??


Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The "selecte(oops,
hang on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE
I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that,
Microsoft!)d location" has nothing to do with the error. No matter
where I try to save the page, no luck. I believe, from what I read
before (from your knowledge base, unless I am greatly mistaken) that
this has to do with an update that was released at some point for
Internet Explorer. I guess my original question was, are you going
to get around to fixing this at any point? I mean, I know you know
the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being able to save the
occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it
doesn't work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if,
having broken it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that
you had broken it, you were planning on doing anything about it.


Which pages are problematic and are any releated to the KB article I
found.

And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm supposed
to get to ask you a question. But as every single technical
operative at your company is more important than the Wizard of Oz,
this proved completely impossible. I bought my computer from Dell.
Dell's a fine company. But because I did that, you won't let me ask
you about the product. You told me to go to Dell. As it were.


The support for OEM products is the responsibility of the OEM.
It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of Windows XP on it - it is
up to Dell to provide you with support.

Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No,
Dell did not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask
Dell? Dell doesn't know what you've done.


Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS and have access to
technical data that Microsoft support personnel do. In addition
since it is an OEM machine and OS Dell may have modified the system
and as such are the only ones who can provide the required support.
Dell do and can know "what we have done"

Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux.
Other people do still make operating systems out there, don't they?
I might've liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix
or some such thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since
you're the big game in town I have to buy your software with the
system. Dell has a deal with you. Dell paid something for that
software, maybe not retail, but something. I'm sure they're not
giving it to me for nothing. So if I buy a computer from Dell--or
almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I would like Windows, I have to
buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way, I cannot get support
for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here.


You can purchase a device from other vendors with other opertaing
systems or non at all.
You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an OEM product on PCs
they ship.
See comment above about OEM support.
If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to your requirements
(including) choice of OS then you can go elsewhere.

I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I
decided to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I
installed it. It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an
OEM version. Meaning it's the only thing made by you I've EVER
CHOSEN to purchase. There was a rebate. It was free, after the
rebate.


Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM product = support by OEM.

Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At
this point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any
sense of responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the
world, you great jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at yours
every damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or
occasionally on a soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.



Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet
Explorer" (wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean
instead of "Windows XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told
(drumroll, please)...you don't offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for
that Product ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once
again. Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this
country." Okay.


Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the country where you reside
? Was it a grey import ?
If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then we may have a
problem (please note the use of USA is just an example,as you do not
state where you are.)

I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I went
through every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call
you on the phone! That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you
tell me to go to Dell for support on a product YOU wrote and
published. Cool.


Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM onto their machines
and possibly modify or augment. They then trained the support
personnel to provide the necessary support on the product.
They also have routes back into us for issues they cannot resolve and
also to raise bugs etc should that be needed.

But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your
"communities" for support. That's where I found a really neat-o
looking page full of bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an
advertisement. Like most of your products do, these days. Did I
see any place for me to submit a question for the consideration of
the "community?" I bet you can figure out the answer to that.

Do you mean here
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
or
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx

Both result in Web based access to these newsgroups.

I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups.
Ninety trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated,
script-ridden, cookie- filled web page, and you send people to the
newsgroups. Yessir, doesn't get much more modern than a newsgroup.


What would you prefer?
This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer support community
that the technical community operate in.

Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use
newsgroups. But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't
deserve technical help, do they? They only shelled out money for
your software, or for a computer which came with
mandatorily-installed copies of some of your software.


We offer technical support as detailed for retail customers. OEMs
provide support for their OEM supplied products.

There is no technology required - we offer a Web interface; as well as
advice on setting up real newsreader programs.

Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour
before. Elegant.


Yes - since some people arrive at the communities via other routes
and then may want to search the knowledgebase or access other support
services. The web is not a linear construct people enter from
various directions.

And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped!
"Coming Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott
explains how to use the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party
back up tools to protect essential data." Well, that would have
been useful before last week, when the partition table on my main
data drive decided to go south and take out a year's worth of
projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't
even planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't
need me bothering you with my little problems.


If you have lost a significant amount of important data because you
made no effort to protect it through the use of appropriate software
(backup or otherwise) - then this is not our fault.

(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the drive
"is not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay
because I'm smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I
like knowing I can make my computer's life a little easier.)


ok

Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions, you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar
references just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID
you won't support...in this country. I had to create a stinking
Hotmail account just so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even
take a look at the useless support page that wound up helping me not
one whit. (A Passport ID which is now linked to my user account on
this computer. Super. Thanks for that.) That, of course, involved
trudging through 15 pages of "which of these newsletters would you
like to subscribe to" and "please tell us all your hobbies." So I
can get an email account. (But not one with "Microsoft" or "Bill
Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that to screw people, and
that job's been filled already. That, or else my name is really
William Gates, although surely there could only be one in the whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad you've
taken such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have
me click inside little square boxes in order that you may learn
about the intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated
life. You really do care!


Yes - we do.

Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft?

Neil Obstat


Congratulations, Michael! You deserve a medal for making it all the way to
the end of that diatribe without calling it a 'moron', '****wit', 'cretin',
'idiot' or any combination of the aforementioned. The original message
didn't appear on my server (but I'm so glad you quoted it in its entirety -
I needed the laugh!) so I can't check its message headers, but I'm glad it
doesn't live on our fair isle! It doesn't even appear to know what OS it's
running as, for some bizarro-world (yep, I'm a Simpsons nut...) reason he
posted to a 98 group. You must remember the classic urban myth of a WP
employee telling a customer to repackage his system because he was too
stupid to own a computer? Methinks Dell (or MS!) should tell this ****wit
the same! ;o)

Blessed be,

Cass


--
Cassandra
Card carrying member of the Fresh Start Club 'The Undead Are People
Too!'

Reply address is fake. Please send all praise, abuse, insults, bequests
of £1million to cassandra (at) craigy34 (dot) freeserve (dot) co (dot)
uk. Change the obvious to the obvious.
Private requests for assistance will not be acknowledged. Please post
all correspondence to the group so that all may benefit. Thank you.


  #4  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Will Denny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Hi Cass

I've stopped my attacks on MVPs - perhaps you could lower you language a =
tad.

Will

Congratulations, Michael! You deserve a medal for making it all the =

way to
the end of that diatribe without calling it a 'moron', '****wit', =

'cretin',
'idiot' or any combination of the aforementioned. The original message
didn't appear on my server (but I'm so glad you quoted it in its =

entirety -
I needed the laugh!) so I can't check its message headers, but I'm =

glad it
doesn't live on our fair isle! It doesn't even appear to know what OS =

it's
running as, for some bizarro-world (yep, I'm a Simpsons nut...) reason =

he
posted to a 98 group. You must remember the classic urban myth of a WP
employee telling a customer to repackage his system because he was too
stupid to own a computer? Methinks Dell (or MS!) should tell this =

****wit
the same! ;o)
=20
Blessed be,
=20
Cass




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.498 / Virus Database: 297 - Release Date: 08/07/2003
  #5  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Kadaitcha Man
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Amethyst wrote:
Mike Brannigan [MSFT] wrote:


Congratulations, Michael! You deserve a medal for


You deserve the Nobel Prize for Idiocy after reposting all 15k just so you
could add your cackles, you daft bint.

making it all the
way to the end of that diatribe without calling it a 'moron',
'****wit', 'cretin', 'idiot' or any combination of the
aforementioned.


Yes, it is amazing that Mike Brannigan [MSFT] avoided comparing the OP to
you.

The original message didn't appear on my server (but
I'm so glad you quoted it in its entirety - I needed the laugh!)


You reposted the whole lot. Har-hardy-har-har. What was it you were saying
about wasting bandwdith?

so I
can't check its message headers, but I'm glad it doesn't live on our
fair isle! It doesn't even appear to know what OS it's running as,
for some bizarro-world (yep, I'm a Simpsons nut...) reason he posted


You're just a nut. Ok, you're a ****ing nut.

to a 98 group. You must remember the classic urban myth of a WP
employee telling a customer to repackage his system because he was
too stupid to own a computer? Methinks Dell (or MS!) should tell this
****wit the same! ;o)


"This ****wit" being you. Or did you really mean that ****wit?

Blessed be,


How incongruous.

--
Kadaitcha Man: Usenet Anarchist - http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/
Anarchy is having to put up with things that **** you off.
MVP - Most Valueless Prostitute


  #6  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Kadaitcha Man
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Will Denny wrote:

I've stopped my attacks on MVPs


But only because you have come to realise that those "attacks" were
pot-kettle-black lames.

--
Kadaitcha Man: Usenet Anarchist - http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/
Anarchy is having to put up with things that **** you off.
MVP - Most Valueless Prostitute


  #7  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Ted
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist


"Amethyst" wrote in message =
...
Mike Brannigan [MSFT] wrote:


snipped Mike's spelling bee

=20
Congratulations, Michael! You deserve a medal for making it all the =

way to
the end of that diatribe without calling it a 'moron', '****wit', =

'cretin',
'idiot' or any combination of the aforementioned. The original message
didn't appear on my server (but I'm so glad you quoted it in its =

entirety -
I needed the laugh!) so I can't check its message headers, but I'm =

glad it
doesn't live on our fair isle! It doesn't even appear to know what OS =

it's
running as, for some bizarro-world (yep, I'm a Simpsons nut...) reason =

he
posted to a 98 group. You must remember the classic urban myth of a WP
employee telling a customer to repackage his system because he was too
stupid to own a computer? Methinks Dell (or MS!) should tell this =

****wit
the same! ;o)


You're such a lame ****! While you attack others about proper posting, =
and spelling, you congratulate the MS host spelling ****wit with praise. =
Only a fruitloop bint such as yourself, would think such an =
inconsistency, consistent!
  #8  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
David Candy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

You know you aren't going to be picked anytime soon as a case study on =
how to deal with irate customers sucessfully.

--=20
http://www.g2mil.com/Apr2003.htm
http://www.sharpword.com/fascism.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
David Candy
http://www.mvps.org/serenitymacros
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message =
...
Neil,
=20
Comments inline
=20
--=20
Regards,
=20
Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
=20
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
=20
Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups
=20
"Neil Obstat" wrote =

in
message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I =

am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.

=20
This is not a statement that is condusive to those who may to provide
support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff)
=20
Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated =

graphics in
certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could not be =

saved to
the selected location."

=20
Can you please supply which pages you are having problems with.
=20
Are you Save As. Web page complete.
This creates an addtional folder below the locvation you are saving to =

that
contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure you have permissions =

to
creat this addtional folder for the page you are Saving.
=20
Also try the Save As single file. This produces a MHT file with all =

the
content embedded.
=20
On the sites I have tried this on the Save As single file produced =

better
results (www.ibm.com was one test that worked better as single file)
=20
I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I =

looked
for
the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's part of what =

the
error message says. It uses those very words. I even checked to =

make
sure
I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that text would be present
SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the section for Internet =

Explorer
6, the program that gives me the error message. Nope. No such =

luck.
Apparently your error messages do not coordinate with your knowledge =

base.
That would be helpful.

=20
The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase.
If you go to the Knowledgebase at
http://support.microsoft.com/
Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database (Knowledge Base)
Just leave the Select your Product as the default - All Microsoft =

Search
topics-
enter
"The web page could not be saved to " in to the For Solution =

containing
and Using ... The exact phrase entered
=20
Produces one result
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=3D235589
=20
Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it relevent to you ??
=20
=20
Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The "selecte(oops, =

hang
on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE I =

WAS IN
THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that, Microsoft!)d

location"
has nothing to do with the error. No matter where I try to save the =

page,
no luck. I believe, from what I read before (from your knowledge =

base,
unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to do with an update =

that was
released at some point for Internet Explorer. I guess my original

question
was, are you going to get around to fixing this at any point? I =

mean, I
know you know the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being able =

to
save
the occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it =

doesn't
work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if, having =

broken
it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that you had =

broken it,
you were planning on doing anything about it.

=20
Which pages are problematic and are any releated to the KB article I =

found.
=20
And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm supposed =

to get
to ask you a question. But as every single technical operative at =

your
company is more important than the Wizard of Oz, this proved =

completely
impossible. I bought my computer from Dell. Dell's a fine company. =

But
because I did that, you won't let me ask you about the product. You =

told
me to go to Dell. As it were.

=20
The support for OEM products is the responsibility of the OEM.
It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of Windows XP on it - it is =

up to
Dell to provide you with support.
=20
Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No, =

Dell
did
not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask Dell? =

Dell
doesn't know what you've done.

=20
Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS and have access to =

technical
data that Microsoft support personnel do. In addition since it is an =

OEM
machine and OS Dell may have modified the system and as such are the =

only
ones who can provide the required support.
Dell do and can know "what we have done"
=20
Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux. =

Other
people do still make operating systems out there, don't they? I =

might've
liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix or some =

such
thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since you're the big =

game
in town I have to buy your software with the system. Dell has a =

deal with
you. Dell paid something for that software, maybe not retail, but
something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me for nothing. So if =

I buy
a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I =

would like
Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way, I

cannot
get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here.

=20
You can purchase a device from other vendors with other opertaing =

systems or
non at all.
You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an OEM product on PCs =

they
ship.
See comment above about OEM support.
If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to your requirements =

(including)
choice of OS then you can go elsewhere.
=20
I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I =

decided
to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I =

installed it.
It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an OEM version. =

Meaning
it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN to purchase. There =

was a
rebate. It was free, after the rebate.

=20
Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM product =3D support by =

OEM.
=20
Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At =

this
point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any sense of
responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the world, =

you
great
jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at yours =

every
damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or occasionally =

on a
soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.

=20
=20
Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet =

Explorer"
(wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean instead of =

"Windows
XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told (drumroll, please)...you =

don't
offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once =

again.
Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this country." =

Okay.

=20
Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the country where you reside =

? Was
it a grey import ?
If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then we may have a =

problem
(please note the use of USA is just an example,as you do not state =

where you
are.)
=20
I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I went

through
every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call you on the

phone!
That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you tell me to go to =

Dell
for support on a product YOU wrote and published. Cool.

=20
Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM onto their machines =

and
possibly modify or augment. They then trained the support personnel =

to
provide the necessary support on the product.
They also have routes back into us for issues they cannot resolve and =

also
to raise bugs etc should that be needed.
=20
But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your =

"communities"
for support. That's where I found a really neat-o looking page full =

of
bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an advertisement. Like =

most of
your products do, these days. Did I see any place for me to submit =

a
question for the consideration of the "community?" I bet you can =

figure
out the answer to that.

Do you mean here
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
or
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx
=20
Both result in Web based access to these newsgroups.
=20
I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups. =

Ninety
trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated, script-ridden, =

cookie-
filled web page, and you send people to the newsgroups. Yessir, =

doesn't
get much more modern than a newsgroup.

=20
What would you prefer?
This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer support community =

that the
technical community operate in.
=20
Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use =

newsgroups.
But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't deserve =

technical
help, do they? They only shelled out money for your software, or =

for a
computer which came with mandatorily-installed copies of some of =

your
software.

=20
We offer technical support as detailed for retail customers. OEMs =

provide
support for their OEM supplied products.
=20
There is no technology required - we offer a Web interface; as well as
advice on setting up real newsreader programs.
=20
Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour =

before.
Elegant.

=20
Yes - since some people arrive at the communities via other routes and =

then
may want to search the knowledgebase or access other support services. =

The
web is not a linear construct people enter from various directions.
=20
And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped! =

"Coming
Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott explains how =

to use
the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party back up tools to =

protect
essential data." Well, that would have been useful before last =

week, when
the partition table on my main data drive decided to go south and =

take out
a year's worth of projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable

personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't =

even
planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't need =

me
bothering you with my little problems.

=20
If you have lost a significant amount of important data because you =

made no
effort to protect it through the use of appropriate software (backup =

or
otherwise) - then this is not our fault.
=20
(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the drive =

"is
not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay =

because
I'm
smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I like knowing =

I can
make my computer's life a little easier.)

=20
ok
=20
Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions, you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar =

references
just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID you won't
support...in this country. I had to create a stinking Hotmail =

account
just
so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even take a look at the =

useless
support page that wound up helping me not one whit. (A Passport ID =

which
is now linked to my user account on this computer. Super. Thanks =

for
that.) That, of course, involved trudging through 15 pages of =

"which of
these newsletters would you like to subscribe to" and "please tell =

us all
your hobbies." So I can get an email account. (But not one with
"Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that to =

screw
people, and that job's been filled already. That, or else my name =

is
really William Gates, although surely there could only be one in the =

whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad you've =

taken
such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have me =

click
inside little square boxes in order that you may learn about the
intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated life. You =

really
do
care!

=20
Yes - we do.
=20
Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft?

Neil Obstat

=20
=20
=20


  #9  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Mike Brannigan [MSFT]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Sorry David, is there a problem with my response ?

I have addressed the direct issue, confirmed that the KB does provide at
least a valid result on the search criteria he used, have requested his
feedback where he saw a deficiency, have asked for qualification of which
pages he has trouble with and have offered solutions or areas for him to
additionally investigate.
And all of this in the face of a fairly hostile rant.

Did I miss something?

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"David Candy" wrote in message
...
You know you aren't going to be picked anytime soon as a case study on how
to deal with irate customers sucessfully.

--
http://www.g2mil.com/Apr2003.htm
http://www.sharpword.com/fascism.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
David Candy
http://www.mvps.org/serenitymacros
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat" wrote in
message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.


This is not a statement that is condusive to those who may to provide
support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff)

Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated graphics

in
certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could not be saved to
the selected location."


Can you please supply which pages you are having problems with.

Are you Save As. Web page complete.
This creates an addtional folder below the locvation you are saving to

that
contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure you have permissions to
creat this addtional folder for the page you are Saving.

Also try the Save As single file. This produces a MHT file with all the
content embedded.

On the sites I have tried this on the Save As single file produced better
results (www.ibm.com was one test that worked better as single file)

I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I looked

for
the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's part of what the
error message says. It uses those very words. I even checked to make

sure
I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that text would be present
SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the section for Internet

Explorer
6, the program that gives me the error message. Nope. No such luck.
Apparently your error messages do not coordinate with your knowledge

base.
That would be helpful.


The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase.
If you go to the Knowledgebase at
http://support.microsoft.com/
Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database (Knowledge Base)
Just leave the Select your Product as the default - All Microsoft Search
topics-
enter
"The web page could not be saved to " in to the For Solution containing
and Using ... The exact phrase entered

Produces one result
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235589

Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it relevent to you ??


Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The "selecte(oops, hang
on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE I WAS IN
THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that, Microsoft!)d

location"
has nothing to do with the error. No matter where I try to save the

page,
no luck. I believe, from what I read before (from your knowledge base,
unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to do with an update that

was
released at some point for Internet Explorer. I guess my original

question
was, are you going to get around to fixing this at any point? I mean, I
know you know the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being able to

save
the occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it

doesn't
work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if, having

broken
it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that you had broken

it,
you were planning on doing anything about it.


Which pages are problematic and are any releated to the KB article I

found.

And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm supposed to

get
to ask you a question. But as every single technical operative at your
company is more important than the Wizard of Oz, this proved completely
impossible. I bought my computer from Dell. Dell's a fine company.

But
because I did that, you won't let me ask you about the product. You

told
me to go to Dell. As it were.


The support for OEM products is the responsibility of the OEM.
It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of Windows XP on it - it is up to
Dell to provide you with support.

Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No, Dell

did
not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask Dell? Dell
doesn't know what you've done.


Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS and have access to

technical
data that Microsoft support personnel do. In addition since it is an OEM
machine and OS Dell may have modified the system and as such are the only
ones who can provide the required support.
Dell do and can know "what we have done"

Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux. Other
people do still make operating systems out there, don't they? I

might've
liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix or some such
thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since you're the big

game
in town I have to buy your software with the system. Dell has a deal

with
you. Dell paid something for that software, maybe not retail, but
something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me for nothing. So if I

buy
a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I would

like
Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way, I

cannot
get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here.


You can purchase a device from other vendors with other opertaing systems

or
non at all.
You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an OEM product on PCs they
ship.
See comment above about OEM support.
If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to your requirements

(including)
choice of OS then you can go elsewhere.

I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I

decided
to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I installed

it.
It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an OEM version.

Meaning
it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN to purchase. There was

a
rebate. It was free, after the rebate.


Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM product = support by OEM.

Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At this
point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any sense of
responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the world, you

great
jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at yours

every
damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or occasionally on a
soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.



Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet Explorer"
(wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean instead of "Windows
XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told (drumroll, please)...you don't
offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once again.
Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this country." Okay.


Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the country where you reside ?

Was
it a grey import ?
If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then we may have a problem
(please note the use of USA is just an example,as you do not state where

you
are.)

I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I went

through
every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call you on the

phone!
That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you tell me to go to Dell
for support on a product YOU wrote and published. Cool.


Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM onto their machines and
possibly modify or augment. They then trained the support personnel to
provide the necessary support on the product.
They also have routes back into us for issues they cannot resolve and also
to raise bugs etc should that be needed.

But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your

"communities"
for support. That's where I found a really neat-o looking page full of
bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an advertisement. Like most

of
your products do, these days. Did I see any place for me to submit a
question for the consideration of the "community?" I bet you can figure
out the answer to that.

Do you mean here
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
or
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx

Both result in Web based access to these newsgroups.

I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups.

Ninety
trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated, script-ridden,

cookie-
filled web page, and you send people to the newsgroups. Yessir, doesn't
get much more modern than a newsgroup.


What would you prefer?
This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer support community that

the
technical community operate in.

Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use

newsgroups.
But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't deserve

technical
help, do they? They only shelled out money for your software, or for a
computer which came with mandatorily-installed copies of some of your
software.


We offer technical support as detailed for retail customers. OEMs provide
support for their OEM supplied products.

There is no technology required - we offer a Web interface; as well as
advice on setting up real newsreader programs.

Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour

before.
Elegant.


Yes - since some people arrive at the communities via other routes and

then
may want to search the knowledgebase or access other support services.

The
web is not a linear construct people enter from various directions.

And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped! "Coming
Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott explains how to

use
the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party back up tools to

protect
essential data." Well, that would have been useful before last week,

when
the partition table on my main data drive decided to go south and take

out
a year's worth of projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable

personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't even
planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't need me
bothering you with my little problems.


If you have lost a significant amount of important data because you made

no
effort to protect it through the use of appropriate software (backup or
otherwise) - then this is not our fault.

(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the drive "is
not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay because

I'm
smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I like knowing I

can
make my computer's life a little easier.)


ok

Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions, you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar

references
just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID you won't
support...in this country. I had to create a stinking Hotmail account

just
so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even take a look at the

useless
support page that wound up helping me not one whit. (A Passport ID

which
is now linked to my user account on this computer. Super. Thanks for
that.) That, of course, involved trudging through 15 pages of "which of
these newsletters would you like to subscribe to" and "please tell us

all
your hobbies." So I can get an email account. (But not one with
"Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that to

screw
people, and that job's been filled already. That, or else my name is
really William Gates, although surely there could only be one in the

whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad you've

taken
such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have me click
inside little square boxes in order that you may learn about the
intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated life. You really

do
care!


Yes - we do.

Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft?

Neil Obstat






  #10  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
David Banks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Hi

Whilst I read Neil's message with the obvious humour that was intended I do
think it generally reflects the 'mood' of anybody who has the Windows
product 'thrust upon them', particularly if it is from an OEM.

All OEM support personnel that I have encountered only know the basics of
the systems they are supposed to be knowledgeable of and I have never yet
had a satisfactory outcome from any support line in the UK. Both Microsoft
and Siemens and Comet in the UK shove you from pillar to post, how anybody
without tenacity can ever get a problem fixed in the 'buck-passing'
atmosphere that originates at Microsoft beats me.

There are a lot of people with 'smart' answers and they will probably turn
out to be right and gently 'ridicule' the originators message (as has been
done in this case), but please, Microsoft, giving smart, glib answers on how
stupid an enquirer is (this is the impression I get from the response by
Mike) does not endear us to you. Answers like 'if you don't like it, you
know what you can do' are not in my Customer Services handbook, since when
has Microsoft had that view ;-))))) To suggest that we can 'go elsewhere' to
the average computer buyer with little knowledge of computing is a bit 'high
minded' of you and again only reflects the general perception that the
public have of the organisation.

I always get some smart person replying to my enquiries pointing out the
obvious, I just get fed up of writing back to them with the message 'read my
enquiry again, you have not answered the question I asked'

A message for Neil, give it up mate, your wasting your time (and energy) but
I know it feels good to 'blow off steam' every now and then.

Also to suggest the use of backup is laughable, the backup program is not
included on the standard XP installation!!!!

I am very troubled by Mike's reply and have re-written it using my own
Customer
Services Handbook:-

'Dear Neil

I am sorry that you are experiencing difficulties in obtaining the
information you require. The Windows operating system is very complex and
navigating the knowledge bases' and help files can sometimes be frustrating
but please persevere. Here are the links where you will find the answers to
your questions:- links blah blah blah etc.
Thankyou for contacting Microsdfoft, we welcome all feedback and hope that
we have gone some way to alleviating what is obviously a very frustrating
problem to you.
Please do not hesitate to contact us on blah blah if you have any further
queries or problems.'

David


"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat" wrote in
message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.


"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message
...
Neil,

Comments inline

--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat" wrote in
message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.


This is not a statement that is condusive to those who may to provide
support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff)

Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated graphics

in
certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could not be saved to
the selected location."


Can you please supply which pages you are having problems with.

Are you Save As. Web page complete.
This creates an addtional folder below the locvation you are saving to

that
contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure you have permissions to
creat this addtional folder for the page you are Saving.

Also try the Save As single file. This produces a MHT file with all the
content embedded.

On the sites I have tried this on the Save As single file produced better
results (www.ibm.com was one test that worked better as single file)

I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I looked

for
the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's part of what the
error message says. It uses those very words. I even checked to make

sure
I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that text would be present
SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the section for Internet

Explorer
6, the program that gives me the error message. Nope. No such luck.
Apparently your error messages do not coordinate with your knowledge

base.
That would be helpful.


The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase.
If you go to the Knowledgebase at
http://support.microsoft.com/
Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database (Knowledge Base)
Just leave the Select your Product as the default - All Microsoft Search
topics-
enter
"The web page could not be saved to " in to the For Solution containing
and Using ... The exact phrase entered

Produces one result
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235589

Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it relevent to you ??


Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The "selecte(oops, hang
on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE I WAS IN
THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that, Microsoft!)d

location"
has nothing to do with the error. No matter where I try to save the

page,
no luck. I believe, from what I read before (from your knowledge base,
unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to do with an update that

was
released at some point for Internet Explorer. I guess my original

question
was, are you going to get around to fixing this at any point? I mean, I
know you know the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being able to

save
the occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it

doesn't
work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if, having

broken
it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that you had broken

it,
you were planning on doing anything about it.


Which pages are problematic and are any releated to the KB article I

found.

And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm supposed to

get
to ask you a question. But as every single technical operative at your
company is more important than the Wizard of Oz, this proved completely
impossible. I bought my computer from Dell. Dell's a fine company.

But
because I did that, you won't let me ask you about the product. You

told
me to go to Dell. As it were.


The support for OEM products is the responsibility of the OEM.
It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of Windows XP on it - it is up to
Dell to provide you with support.

Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No, Dell

did
not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask Dell? Dell
doesn't know what you've done.


Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS and have access to

technical
data that Microsoft support personnel do. In addition since it is an OEM
machine and OS Dell may have modified the system and as such are the only
ones who can provide the required support.
Dell do and can know "what we have done"

Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux. Other
people do still make operating systems out there, don't they? I

might've
liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix or some such
thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since you're the big

game
in town I have to buy your software with the system. Dell has a deal

with
you. Dell paid something for that software, maybe not retail, but
something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me for nothing. So if I

buy
a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I would

like
Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way, I

cannot
get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here.


You can purchase a device from other vendors with other opertaing systems

or
non at all.
You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an OEM product on PCs they
ship.
See comment above about OEM support.
If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to your requirements

(including)
choice of OS then you can go elsewhere.

I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I

decided
to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I installed

it.
It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an OEM version.

Meaning
it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN to purchase. There was

a
rebate. It was free, after the rebate.


Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM product = support by OEM.

Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At this
point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any sense of
responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the world, you

great
jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at yours

every
damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or occasionally on a
soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.



Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet Explorer"
(wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean instead of "Windows
XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told (drumroll, please)...you don't
offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once again.
Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this country." Okay.


Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the country where you reside ?

Was
it a grey import ?
If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then we may have a problem
(please note the use of USA is just an example,as you do not state where

you
are.)

I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I went

through
every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call you on the

phone!
That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you tell me to go to Dell
for support on a product YOU wrote and published. Cool.


Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM onto their machines and
possibly modify or augment. They then trained the support personnel to
provide the necessary support on the product.
They also have routes back into us for issues they cannot resolve and also
to raise bugs etc should that be needed.

But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your

"communities"
for support. That's where I found a really neat-o looking page full of
bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an advertisement. Like most

of
your products do, these days. Did I see any place for me to submit a
question for the consideration of the "community?" I bet you can figure
out the answer to that.

Do you mean here
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
or
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx

Both result in Web based access to these newsgroups.

I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups.

Ninety
trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated, script-ridden,

cookie-
filled web page, and you send people to the newsgroups. Yessir, doesn't
get much more modern than a newsgroup.


What would you prefer?
This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer support community that

the
technical community operate in.

Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use

newsgroups.
But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't deserve

technical
help, do they? They only shelled out money for your software, or for a
computer which came with mandatorily-installed copies of some of your
software.


We offer technical support as detailed for retail customers. OEMs provide
support for their OEM supplied products.

There is no technology required - we offer a Web interface; as well as
advice on setting up real newsreader programs.

Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour

before.
Elegant.


Yes - since some people arrive at the communities via other routes and

then
may want to search the knowledgebase or access other support services.

The
web is not a linear construct people enter from various directions.

And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped! "Coming
Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott explains how to

use
the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party back up tools to

protect
essential data." Well, that would have been useful before last week,

when
the partition table on my main data drive decided to go south and take

out
a year's worth of projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable

personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't even
planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't need me
bothering you with my little problems.


If you have lost a significant amount of important data because you made

no
effort to protect it through the use of appropriate software (backup or
otherwise) - then this is not our fault.

(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the drive "is
not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay because

I'm
smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I like knowing I

can
make my computer's life a little easier.)


ok

Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions, you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar

references
just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID you won't
support...in this country. I had to create a stinking Hotmail account

just
so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even take a look at the

useless
support page that wound up helping me not one whit. (A Passport ID

which
is now linked to my user account on this computer. Super. Thanks for
that.) That, of course, involved trudging through 15 pages of "which of
these newsletters would you like to subscribe to" and "please tell us

all
your hobbies." So I can get an email account. (But not one with
"Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that to

screw
people, and that job's been filled already. That, or else my name is
really William Gates, although surely there could only be one in the

whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad you've

taken
such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have me click
inside little square boxes in order that you may learn about the
intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated life. You really

do
care!


Yes - we do.

Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft?

Neil Obstat










  #11  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
David Candy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Yes. You responded how a technical person would respond. Technically =
correct. But a customer relationship nightmare.

http://www.jjlauderbaugh.com/Article...customers.html
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/tallaha...ts/5552399.htm
(unfortunately most links want cash)

It's not about being right. Being right is BAD.
--=20
http://www.g2mil.com/Apr2003.htm
http://www.sharpword.com/fascism.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
David Candy
http://www.mvps.org/serenitymacros
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message =
...
Sorry David, is there a problem with my response ?
=20
I have addressed the direct issue, confirmed that the KB does provide =

at
least a valid result on the search criteria he used, have requested =

his
feedback where he saw a deficiency, have asked for qualification of =

which
pages he has trouble with and have offered solutions or areas for him =

to
additionally investigate.
And all of this in the face of a fairly hostile rant.
=20
Did I miss something?
=20
--=20
Regards,
=20
Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]
=20
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
=20
Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups
=20
"David Candy" wrote in message
...
You know you aren't going to be picked anytime soon as a case study on =

how
to deal with irate customers sucessfully.
=20
--=20
http://www.g2mil.com/Apr2003.htm
http://www.sharpword.com/fascism.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
David Candy
http://www.mvps.org/serenitymacros
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in =

message
...
Neil,

Comments inline

--=20
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

"Neil Obstat" wrote =

in
message 48.16...
Hello, Microsoft.

I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell =

I am
supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless
products.


This is not a statement that is condusive to those who may to =

provide
support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff)

Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated =

graphics
in
certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could not be =

saved to
the selected location."


Can you please supply which pages you are having problems with.

Are you Save As. Web page complete.
This creates an addtional folder below the locvation you are saving =

to
that
contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure you have =

permissions to
creat this addtional folder for the page you are Saving.

Also try the Save As single file. This produces a MHT file with all =

the
content embedded.

On the sites I have tried this on the Save As single file produced =

better
results (www.ibm.com was one test that worked better as single file)

I have read the reason for this before, yet a
search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I =

looked
for
the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's part of =

what the
error message says. It uses those very words. I even checked to =

make
sure
I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that text would be present
SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the section for Internet

Explorer
6, the program that gives me the error message. Nope. No such =

luck.
Apparently your error messages do not coordinate with your =

knowledge
base.
That would be helpful.


The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase.
If you go to the Knowledgebase at
http://support.microsoft.com/
Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database (Knowledge Base)
Just leave the Select your Product as the default - All Microsoft =

Search
topics-
enter
"The web page could not be saved to " in to the For Solution =

containing
and Using ... The exact phrase entered

Produces one result
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=3D235589

Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it relevent to you =

??


Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The =

"selecte(oops, hang
on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE I =

WAS IN
THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that, Microsoft!)d

location"
has nothing to do with the error. No matter where I try to save =

the
page,
no luck. I believe, from what I read before (from your knowledge =

base,
unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to do with an update =

that
was
released at some point for Internet Explorer. I guess my original

question
was, are you going to get around to fixing this at any point? I =

mean, I
know you know the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being =

able to
save
the occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it

doesn't
work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if, having

broken
it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that you had =

broken
it,
you were planning on doing anything about it.


Which pages are problematic and are any releated to the KB article I

found.

And then I tried to ask you that.

I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm =

supposed to
get
to ask you a question. But as every single technical operative at =

your
company is more important than the Wizard of Oz, this proved =

completely
impossible. I bought my computer from Dell. Dell's a fine =

company.
But
because I did that, you won't let me ask you about the product. =

You
told
me to go to Dell. As it were.


The support for OEM products is the responsibility of the OEM.
It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of Windows XP on it - it is =

up to
Dell to provide you with support.

Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No, =

Dell
did
not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask Dell? =

Dell
doesn't know what you've done.


Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS and have access to

technical
data that Microsoft support personnel do. In addition since it is =

an OEM
machine and OS Dell may have modified the system and as such are the =

only
ones who can provide the required support.
Dell do and can know "what we have done"

Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux. =

Other
people do still make operating systems out there, don't they? I

might've
liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix or some =

such
thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since you're the =

big
game
in town I have to buy your software with the system. Dell has a =

deal
with
you. Dell paid something for that software, maybe not retail, but
something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me for nothing. So =

if I
buy
a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I =

would
like
Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way, =

I
cannot
get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here.


You can purchase a device from other vendors with other opertaing =

systems
or
non at all.
You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an OEM product on PCs =

they
ship.
See comment above about OEM support.
If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to your requirements

(including)
choice of OS then you can go elsewhere.

I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I

decided
to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I =

installed
it.
It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an OEM version.

Meaning
it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN to purchase. =

There was
a
rebate. It was free, after the rebate.


Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM product =3D support by =

OEM.

Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At =

this
point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any sense =

of
responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the world, =

you
great
jolly megalith, you.

I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at =

yours
every
damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or =

occasionally on a
soothing screen painted all in deepest blue.



Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet =

Explorer"
(wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean instead of =

"Windows
XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told (drumroll, please)...you =

don't
offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product ID.

But...I bought it in this country.

Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once =

again.
Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this country." =

Okay.


Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the country where you =

reside ?
Was
it a grey import ?
If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then we may have a =

problem
(please note the use of USA is just an example,as you do not state =

where
you
are.)

I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I =

went
through
every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call you on =

the
phone!
That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you tell me to go =

to Dell
for support on a product YOU wrote and published. Cool.


Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM onto their machines =

and
possibly modify or augment. They then trained the support personnel =

to
provide the necessary support on the product.
They also have routes back into us for issues they cannot resolve =

and also
to raise bugs etc should that be needed.

But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your

"communities"
for support. That's where I found a really neat-o looking page =

full of
bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an advertisement. Like =

most
of
your products do, these days. Did I see any place for me to =

submit a
question for the consideration of the "community?" I bet you can =

figure
out the answer to that.

Do you mean here
http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx
or
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx

Both result in Web based access to these newsgroups.

I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups.

Ninety
trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated, script-ridden,

cookie-
filled web page, and you send people to the newsgroups. Yessir, =

doesn't
get much more modern than a newsgroup.


What would you prefer?
This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer support community =

that
the
technical community operate in.

Of course, fewer and fewer people
are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use

newsgroups.
But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't deserve

technical
help, do they? They only shelled out money for your software, or =

for a
computer which came with mandatorily-installed copies of some of =

your
software.


We offer technical support as detailed for retail customers. OEMs =

provide
support for their OEM supplied products.

There is no technology required - we offer a Web interface; as well =

as
advice on setting up real newsreader programs.

Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP =

Support
Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour

before.
Elegant.


Yes - since some people arrive at the communities via other routes =

and
then
may want to search the knowledgebase or access other support =

services.
The
web is not a linear construct people enter from various directions.

And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped! =

"Coming
Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott explains how =

to
use
the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party back up tools to

protect
essential data." Well, that would have been useful before last =

week,
when
the partition table on my main data drive decided to go south and =

take
out
a year's worth of projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable

personal
information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't =

even
planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't =

need me
bothering you with my little problems.


If you have lost a significant amount of important data because you =

made
no
effort to protect it through the use of appropriate software (backup =

or
otherwise) - then this is not our fault.

(Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the =

drive "is
not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay =

because
I'm
smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I like =

knowing I
can
make my computer's life a little easier.)


ok

Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions, =

you
certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar

references
just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID you won't
support...in this country. I had to create a stinking Hotmail =

account
just
so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even take a look at the

useless
support page that wound up helping me not one whit. (A Passport =

ID
which
is now linked to my user account on this computer. Super. Thanks =

for
that.) That, of course, involved trudging through 15 pages of =

"which of
these newsletters would you like to subscribe to" and "please tell =

us
all
your hobbies." So I can get an email account. (But not one with
"Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that =

to
screw
people, and that job's been filled already. That, or else my name =

is
really William Gates, although surely there could only be one in =

the
whole
world. Let's hope, anyway.)

But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad =

you've
taken
such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have me =

click
inside little square boxes in order that you may learn about the
intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated life. You =

really
do
care!


Yes - we do.

Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft?

Neil Obstat




=20
=20


  #12  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
rifleman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

In ,
David Banks typed:
Hi

Snip
Also to suggest the use of backup is laughable, the backup program
is not included on the standard XP installation!!!!


Are all OEM installations XP Home edition then?


--
(I may be wrong...I usually am....)
Google is your Friend
Email address deliberately false to avoid spam:
www.gbpcomputing.co.uk



  #13  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Ted
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist


"David Banks" wrote in message =
...

snipped

There are a lot of people with 'smart' answers and they will probably =

turn
out to be right and gently 'ridicule' the originators message (as has =

been
done in this case


Gently on maybe one account, but not on the MS/MVP supporters like the =
bint "Amethyst", who has no problem railing the meekest of help seekers =
to becoming "mindless PC ****cases"! At least Mike just tells them they =
are basically stuck in a "****case"!

snipped long remainder


  #14  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
David Candy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

No. It depends who you buy it from. Each computer mfg pays varing amount =
of cash to MS. At the most expensive is small stores. The sell genuine =
MS OEM Disk. There is no difference to proper copies except the company =
agrees to support it and it will refuse to upgrade. A large company pays =
least and probably doesn't supply a disk.

But you can buy home in a retail store. Most OSs are sold OEM with new =
systems.

--=20
http://www.g2mil.com/Apr2003.htm
http://www.sharpword.com/fascism.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------
David Candy
http://www.mvps.org/serenitymacros
---------------------------------------------------------------
"rifleman" wrote in message =
...
In ,
David Banks typed:
Hi

Snip
Also to suggest the use of backup is laughable, the backup program
is not included on the standard XP installation!!!!

=20
Are all OEM installations XP Home edition then?
=20
=20
--=20
(I may be wrong...I usually am....)
Google is your Friend
Email address deliberately false to avoid spam:
www.gbpcomputing.co.uk
=20
=20
=20


  #15  
Old December 5th 03, 01:48 AM
Kadaitcha Man
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist

Ted" """""""""""""" wrote:

Gently on maybe one account, but not on the MS/MVP supporters like
the bint "Amethyst", who has no problem railing the meekest of help
seekers to becoming "mindless PC ****cases"! At least Mike just tells
them they are basically stuck in a "****case"!


Don't forget that the imaginary personality Amethyst projects into these
groups is the only one she has.

--
Kadaitcha Man: Usenet Anarchist - http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/
Anarchy is having to put up with things that **** you off.
MVP - Most Valueless Prostitute


 




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