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#16
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Some Windows File History questions
VanguardLH wrote:
[...] I just had a thought: will restoring a file also include its NTFS permissions. If anyone can restore from File History, other users in different Windows accounts could read files created under other Windows accounts. I would think if NTFS was used on the source that NTFS would must used on the File History drive. When you configure File History to add a drive, I would expect it to convert the drive to NTFS. Alas, that doesn't seem to be the case. A search on "windows file history fat32" shows users are using FAT32 drives, like USB flash drives, as part of the File History cache. Forget about NTFS permissions if the File History drive uses FAT32. It's not just permissions that are carried in the NTFS file attributes (http://www.ntfs.com/ntfs-files-types.htm). Well, all of this is also applicable to any other kind of backup mechanism, isn't it? If you want to keep NTFS permissions or/and prevent other users/people from getting_at/restoring your data, you will have to take appropriate measures. |
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#17
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Some Windows File History questions
On 6/30/19 3:06 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: On 6/29/19 2:15 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: VanguardLH wrote: [...] snip I realize that we're talking about Microsoft here, so anything could happen, but I think if they disable File History, they will add some other kind of backup mechanism. Otherwise it would be the first Windows version since XP (or earlier?) that does not have some kind of backup mechanism. But heh, I'm gullible! :-) My install of 1903... Open the Control Panel, the good old Windows 7 Backup and Restore is still there. My Windows 8.1 only has File History, no other kind of backup mechanism. That maybe because it's just 'Windows 8.1', i.e. no Premium or whatever. I have the Pro version, no Backup and Restore there, either. So, I decided to "Add features to Windows 8.1", using that selection in the Control Panel. This isn't the "Turn features on and off" found in Programs and Features. Click on the program, and it asks me for my product key. Rather that go dig out the disk I bought a long time ago, retrieved the key using Belarc Advisor. MS tells me the key is not valid. %^#*$*$*$^#&# Would be nice to know if Backup and Restore was one of those features, mostly out of curiosity. I never use W8.1 except to check and see what's what with things like this. FYI, if you click search icon in W10, for Backup and Restore, W10 will not find it. This works in Windows 7. -- Ken MacOS 10.14.5 Firefox 67.0.4 Thunderbird 60.7 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#18
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Some Windows File History questions
On 6/30/2019 10:37 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 6/30/19 3:06 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 6/29/19 2:15 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: VanguardLH wrote: [...] snip Â*Â*Â* I realize that we're talking about Microsoft here, so anything could happen, but I think if they disable File History, they will add some other kind of backup mechanism. Otherwise it would be the first Windows version since XP (or earlier?) that does not have some kind of backup mechanism. But heh, I'm gullible! :-) My install of 1903...Â* Open the Control Panel, the good old Windows 7 Backup and Restore is still there. Â*Â* My Windows 8.1 only has File History, no other kind of backup mechanism. That maybe because it's just 'Windows 8.1', i.e. no Premium or whatever. I have the Pro version, no Backup and Restore there, either. So, I decided to "Add features to Windows 8.1", using that selection in the Control Panel.Â* This isn't the "Turn features on and off" found in Programs and Features. Click on the program, and it asks me for my product key.Â* Rather that go dig out the disk I bought a long time ago, retrieved the key using Belarc Advisor.Â* MS tells me the key is not valid.Â* %^#*$*$*$^#&# Would be nice to know if Backup and Restore was one of those features, mostly out of curiosity.Â* I never use W8.1 except to check and see what's what with things like this. FYI, if you click search icon in W10, for Backup and Restore, W10 will not find it.Â* This works in Windows 7. I am not sure where the term "back up and restore" means in the context of this thread, but all of the functions of the traditional Windows backup program are now in a program called File History. This can be accessed from: Control Panel, System And Security, File History. OR Settings, Update and Security, Backup. While there is a different set of screens in Settings and Control Panel the results are the same. You can back up all of the disk, selected folders, or specific files. Same with Restore. The backed up files are readable in their native application. I use File history to back up my computer to a 1 TB external drive. It places the files in in a folder on the External drive called File History (May very slightly, I don't have access to that drive right now.) Multiple copies of the backed up files exist appended with the date,etc. (I like this feature and is the reason I use File History for back up rather the Syncback Free which I use to sync my laptop and desktop) Under windows 10 you still have access to the old Windows 7 back up routine, so your old backup are still valid. -- Judge your ancestors by how well they met their standards not yours. They did not know your standards, so could not try to meet them. |
#19
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Some Windows File History questions
Ken Springer wrote:
On 6/30/19 3:06 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote: Ken Springer wrote: On 6/29/19 2:15 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote: VanguardLH wrote: [...] snip I realize that we're talking about Microsoft here, so anything could happen, but I think if they disable File History, they will add some other kind of backup mechanism. Otherwise it would be the first Windows version since XP (or earlier?) that does not have some kind of backup mechanism. But heh, I'm gullible! :-) My install of 1903... Open the Control Panel, the good old Windows 7 Backup and Restore is still there. My Windows 8.1 only has File History, no other kind of backup mechanism. That maybe because it's just 'Windows 8.1', i.e. no Premium or whatever. I have the Pro version, no Backup and Restore there, either. So, I decided to "Add features to Windows 8.1", using that selection in the Control Panel. This isn't the "Turn features on and off" found in Programs and Features. Click on the program, and it asks me for my product key. Rather that go dig out the disk I bought a long time ago, retrieved the key using Belarc Advisor. MS tells me the key is not valid. %^#*$*$*$^#&# Would be nice to know if Backup and Restore was one of those features, mostly out of curiosity. I never use W8.1 except to check and see what's what with things like this. "Add features" might be the place you would put the Windows Media Center key, to bump Win8.1 from Win8.1 Pro to Win8.1 Pro plus Media Center. It might be similar to Anytime Upgrade on Windows 7. The version naming isn't entirely consistent from one OS to another. Win7 Home Premium Win7 Pro Win8 Home (or "Core") Win8 Pro Whether a Belarc Advisor pulled key would work, would depend on whether this was a Retail install, or an OEM MSDM activated install (or on an older OS, a SLIC activated install). Some of those have bogus generic keys that would not work in any case. ******* In Win 8.1, the backup feature isn't gone, just the command line version is still present on the machine. This backs up two partitions onto external backup drive E: . The "allCritical" stands for the "system" and "boot" partitions the OS uses. If both "system" and "boot" are on C:, then only C: need be backed up. This is sufficient backup to ensure a bootable OS can be restored (using the restore function of the Win8 emergency disk or the Win8 installer DVD). If "system" and "boot" are on System Reserved and C: respectively, then those two partitions are backed up by allCritical. wbAdmin start backup -backupTarget:E: -allCritical -quiet This command, instead of using allCritical, uses the GUID of the System Reserved partition plus the drive letter C: and puts the backup files at the top level of external drive F: . Wbadmin start backup -backupTarget:F: -include:\\?\Volume{C38A95FE-9261-11E1-92E9-806E6F6E6963}\,C: -quiet And this one is redundant, in that it says to backup C: twice. C: is only backed up once in this case. If there was a System Reserved (with no drive letter), the allCritical would pick it up. wbAdmin start backup -backupTarget:E: -include:C:,D:,F: -allCritical -quiet Picture of my Win 8.1 Pro install. https://i.postimg.cc/MK7tg47v/wbadmin.gif Paul |
#20
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Some Windows File History questions
On 6/30/19 11:13 AM, Paul wrote:
Whether a Belarc Advisor pulled key would work, would depend on whether this was a Retail install, or an OEM MSDM activated install (or on an older OS, a SLIC activated install). Some of those have bogus generic keys that would not work in any case. I would think it would be a retail install, since the key came with my $40 W8 purchase when W8 was first released. IF I did through my disks, I can find the original disk which I wrote the key on when I first installed W8. -- Ken MacOS 10.14.5 Firefox 67.0.4 Thunderbird 60.7 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#21
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Some Windows File History questions
Ken Springer wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:13 AM, Paul wrote: Whether a Belarc Advisor pulled key would work, would depend on whether this was a Retail install, or an OEM MSDM activated install (or on an older OS, a SLIC activated install). Some of those have bogus generic keys that would not work in any case. I would think it would be a retail install, since the key came with my $40 W8 purchase when W8 was first released. IF I did through my disks, I can find the original disk which I wrote the key on when I first installed W8. Yes, that key should be valid. I bought a couple of those. ******* This is what the wbadmin run looks like. C:\wbAdmin start backup -backupTarget:J: -allCritical -quiet wbadmin 1.0 - Backup command-line tool (C) Copyright 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Retrieving volume information... This will back up WIN81P9X(C to J:. The backup operation to J: is starting. Creating a shadow copy of the volumes specified for backup... Creating a shadow copy of the volumes specified for backup... Creating a shadow copy of the volumes specified for backup... Creating a backup of volume WIN81P9X(C, copied (0%). .... Creating a backup of volume WIN81P9X(C, copied (100%). The backup of volume WIN81P9X(C completed successfully. Summary of the backup operation: ------------------ The backup operation successfully completed. The backup of volume WIN81P9X(C completed successfully. Log of files successfully backed up: C:\Windows\Logs\WindowsBackup\Backup-30-06-2019_17-37-07.log Directory of J:\WindowsImageBackup\BARSTOOL\Backup 2019-06-30 173707 06/30/2019 01:51 PM DIR . 06/30/2019 01:51 PM DIR .. 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 776 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_AdditionalFilesc3b9f3c7-5e52-4d5e-8b20-19adc95a34c7.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 10,662 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_Components.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 8,196 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_RegistryExcludes.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 6,342 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_Writer4dc3bdd4-ab48-4d07-adb0-3bee2926fd7f.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 1,488 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_Writer542da469-d3e1-473c-9f4f-7847f01fc64f.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 1,484 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_Writera6ad56c2-b509-4e6c-bb19-49d8f43532f0.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 3,828 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_Writerafbab4a2-367d-4d15-a586-71dbb18f8485.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 5,190 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_Writerbe000cbe-11fe-4426-9c58-531aa6355fc4.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 5,902 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_Writercd3f2362-8bef-46c7-9181-d62844cdc0b2.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 4,853,212 75981c0f-1d12-42bb-8af7-a78768bdf506_Writere8132975-6f93-4464-a53e-1050253ae220.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 756 BackupSpecs.xml 06/30/2019 01:41 PM 39,143,342,080 ef260c33-c1f3-11e5-8364-806e6f6e6963.vhdx The .vhdx file contains the entire C: partition from the backup. That's the same container type that Hyper-V uses. The .vhdx format can handle more than 2.2TB sized jobs. If you asked the program to back up three partitions, there should be three separate .vhdx files. Paul |
#22
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Some Windows File History questions
On 6/29/19 9:19 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote: I have been reading up on Windows File History. I does should like a nice application. References: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...8-file-history https://www.lifewire.com/use-file-hi...ows-10-3891070 https://www.howtogeek.com/74623/how-...-in-windows-8/ Some questions: 1) are the files stored in native format or in incremental fragments? 2) are the files readable with a standard file manager? In other words, must it require Windows to read them. And does it have to be THAT version of Windows that created them to read them? 3) how far backwards will File History keep older revisions? 4) will File history use the entire backup drive and prune as it gets full? Or will is complain when the drive fill up? 5) is there any performance hit that the user will recognize? 6) what will happen if the user disconnects the backup drive? 7) if you move the backup drive to a fresh install of Windows, will the fresh install be able to recover them? See my thread here titled "File History (Backup) - Not including Documents folder". I tried File History. There were problems, so it got discarded. When I managed to get it working at its best, it still missed a file which, if a critical file, you would not have a history backup from which to restore. An issue to which no one responded was: I'm still trying to figure out how File History can show you prior versions after deleting a file. After all, normally you right-click on an *existing* file to use Properties - Prior Versions to get at the prior versions. So, how can you right-click on a non-existing file, one that existed but got deleted? The ease-of-use using a property sheet on file (which is not possible) is lost after deleting a file. The user has to dig into the File History cache to find saved copies of a deleted file. I found a workaround using my current backup sofware. I use Macrium Reflect Home. It does not allow searching for a file across its image backups. Having to mount an image, search for the file, unmount the image, and repeat until you find the file at the version you want is way too clumsy. However, for file backups using Reflect, I can have it search on a file across all backups, and the search results show in which backup (with a date) the file exists, so I can pick one based on date. I'd still want something that is similar to File History. SyncBack (which I've already discussed in another of your threads) does have file versioning but not in their free version, only in their payware versions (SE and Pro editions). FreeFileSync (yep, free, like it says) lists file versioning as a feature; however, I find it clumsier (i.e., less intuitive) than SyncBack, and my trial of FreeFileSync ended quick. I've gotten quick support from 2BrightSparks (SyncBack). For FreeFileSync, you rely on peer support in their forums. I have Zenju (site admin) replying in their forums, he registered back in 2007 (FreeFileSync showed up in 2008), but he's posted only 4939 times there. There is no members list to see how many are site admins, techs, reps, moderators, employees, etc. Might be you have to register and login to see that. 2BrightSparks has no forums, so forget about peer support on their free version. For their payware versions, you get support from them. If I trial FreeFileSync again, I'll wander through their forums to see if peers (and any techs) provide a decent level of support. Can you ensure that everywhere you want to use File History has 2, or more, drives? File History requires a 2nd drive for where its saves or caches the versioned files. If the C: drive (with OS, apps, and data) is all there is, you cannot use File History. If there is only one disk (HDD or SSD), you'll have to reparition it to create a new 2nd drive. File History will not save the versioned files in the same source drive as from where they are getting backed up. It does use dynamic storage space, though, so you could plug in a USB drive to start a cache for File History, and later plug in another USB drive to increase its cache size. File History can use networked drives. However, there is nothing like RAID-3, so removing one of the drives means losing the old versioned files that were there. I did not test if removing a drive (from File History before physically removing it) would offer an option to copy the old versioned files from one drive to another. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html File History showed up in Windows 8. Microsoft dropped it in Windows 10 Fall Creators update (insider edition), but decided to keep it. I wouldn't trust that Microsoft intends to keep it, so you could be wasting your time to implement File History. See: https://www.windowscentral.com/micro...reators-update I suspect Microsoft has been scurrying to fix other more major problems, and simply hasn't gotten around to disabling the feature. Microsoft is pushing cloud backups hence their push to OneDrive. Used to be something you added to Windows. Now, in Windows 10, it is embedded in Windows. Oh, goody, cloud backups. Those are barely usable for data backups, not for image backups to restore an entire partition to revert to a prior state of a drive. They could roll file versioning into OneDrive since there are local and cloud copies of files in the local OneDrive folder (and in the special folders, like Documents, Pictures, Movies, Music, if you config Onedrive to include them) -- but I wouldn't bet on them incorporating file versioning into OneDrive. OneDrive for Business (ODFB) has similar features: differential sync, files on demand, and sync to Sharepoint which has file versionsing (https://support.office.com/en-us/art...a-bcab618c7a37) but Sharepoint isn't free, so users would have to subscribe (ka-ching ka-ching) to get some new file versioning feature in OneDrive that uses cloud document storage via Sharepoint. ODFB is for using Sharepoint. Of course, the push to use OneDrive means more revenue to Microsoft since users/companies have to subscribe (purchase) to get more than the 15GB initial disk quota. Subscriptions are more effective at generating revenue. Anti-virus vendors found this out a long time ago. Thank you! |
#23
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Some Windows File History questions
On 6/29/19 2:16 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
And if you deleted the folder (to delete the file)? If the folder still existed, I would think restoring it would revert all files back to the folder's versioned backup. Something you just worked on would get obliterated. File History is a scheduled backup, not an on-access or real-time file versioning system that catches files immediately after change. Just doesn't seem File History is geared to restoring deleted files, only restoring (copying back) over an existing file. I would say that would pretty much be a deal killer. Were your able to browse through the backup drive for your file? |
#24
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Some Windows File History questions
On 6/29/19 7:16 PM, Paul wrote:
John Doe wrote: As a general rule... All Microsoft utilities are useless. They're designed so that they do not "eat the lunch" of Microsoft Partners. Notice, that when Disk Management gained "shrink and expand" functions, all the Partition Manager products started "giving away for free, shrink and expand". And that's the nature of competing with Microsoft. Â*Â* Paul "Shirnk adn Expand"? Hmmmm. And on line as well? I wonder who well it works. I have been using gparted for that (off line). |
#25
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Some Windows File History questions
T wrote:
On 6/29/19 7:16 PM, Paul wrote: John Doe wrote: As a general rule... All Microsoft utilities are useless. They're designed so that they do not "eat the lunch" of Microsoft Partners. Notice, that when Disk Management gained "shrink and expand" functions, all the Partition Manager products started "giving away for free, shrink and expand". And that's the nature of competing with Microsoft. Paul "Shirnk adn Expand"? Hmmmm. And on line as well? I wonder who well it works. I have been using gparted for that (off line). Typically the products do not move the "origin" of the partition. This limits how fancy a thing you can do. Microsoft can only shrink a partition to half the original size, because there is some metadata present that they refuse to move. I use gparted too, but I've also seen various issues, and the issues are more likely to do with Microsoft fooling around with Win10 and NTFS, than with some sort of code change on the Linux side. You might receive warnings that $BITMAP isn't right or $MFTMIRR isn't right. There is an "ntfsfix" that can repair the $MFTMIRR while you're in Linux, so you don't have to go back to Windows to "prep" your partition to work in Linux. But generally the situation is a mess, and it's all Microsofts fault. For a company that embraces open source, they're doing a damn good job. I also get feedback from Macrium now, with Macrium throwing error 9 (and other error numbers). So even Macrium is succumbing to the deadly embrace of Microsoft. "The job ain't done 'till the backup won't run." Paul |
#26
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Some Windows File History questions
On 6/30/19 7:13 PM, Paul wrote:
"TheÂ*jobÂ*ain'tÂ*doneÂ*'tillÂ*theÂ*backupÂ*won't *run." That hurts! |
#27
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Some Windows File History questions
T wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: And if you deleted the folder (to delete the file)? If the folder still existed, I would think restoring it would revert all files back to the folder's versioned backup. Something you just worked on would get obliterated. File History is a scheduled backup, not an on-access or real-time file versioning system that catches files immediately after change. Just doesn't seem File History is geared to restoring deleted files, only restoring (copying back) over an existing file. I would say that would pretty much be a deal killer. Were your able to browse through the backup drive for your file? Yep, they're just copies of the source files but renamed to include a timestamp. That's how I knew that some files were missing in File History's cache folder that existed in the source folders. The documents were not in use when I forced a manual update by File History, nor did they have hidden or system attributes. I was able to open then in the associated viewer/editor app, so there was no file permissions problem. No idea why File History omitted some files to back up. |
#28
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Some Windows File History questions
Ken Springer wrote:
On 6/30/19 11:13 AM, Paul wrote: Whether a Belarc Advisor pulled key would work, would depend on whether this was a Retail install, or an OEM MSDM activated install (or on an older OS, a SLIC activated install). Some of those have bogus generic keys that would not work in any case. I would think it would be a retail install, since the key came with my $40 W8 purchase when W8 was first released. IF I did through my disks, I can find the original disk which I wrote the key on when I first installed W8. The other backup utility, is "sdclt.exe", which is normally bound to some links in Control Panels. Now, my copy of that on Windows 8, seems to be "mostly neutered". It ignores stuff like sdclt.exe /configure It seems only sdclt.exe runs and does something. https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/w...click-options/ This blog makes claims about Win8 and Win8.1 that don't seem to be true. But, there you go... https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/...ip-of-the-day/ Paul |
#29
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Some Windows File History questions
On 6/30/19 10:33 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote: VanguardLH wrote: And if you deleted the folder (to delete the file)? If the folder still existed, I would think restoring it would revert all files back to the folder's versioned backup. Something you just worked on would get obliterated. File History is a scheduled backup, not an on-access or real-time file versioning system that catches files immediately after change. Just doesn't seem File History is geared to restoring deleted files, only restoring (copying back) over an existing file. I would say that would pretty much be a deal killer. Were your able to browse through the backup drive for your file? Yep, they're just copies of the source files but renamed to include a timestamp. That's how I knew that some files were missing in File History's cache folder that existed in the source folders. The documents were not in use when I forced a manual update by File History, nor did they have hidden or system attributes. I was able to open then in the associated viewer/editor app, so there was no file permissions problem. No idea why File History omitted some files to back up. Thank you! |
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