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X86 vs X64
On a device with 4 gigs RAM is 64 bit windows better than 32 bit?
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X86 vs X64
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 Lucifer wrote: On a device with 4 gigs RAM is 64 bit windows better than 32 bit? Yes, if for nothing more than "you can enumerate all 4G". -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl34t6 YACgkQjhHd8xJ5 ooGiRgf/bPgIjfKxRYBcxdPO+NUOldzvoIMd8T/wANRjpqoV6AuaGx1tsoznFnW3 R55L3cZ/kOW2kJNaUCGSMbhTCI5xdcvgwIj+ZZNrrYV+fI3/mbP2lBjnut011QbU vNXtl76xq3ONqxbymw1+31eEsjsNMxLBCDsEMW3Ca/xjk/al+3+DtNCT4MvXDYf8 /Cs9tcZhtfCSgpFNGcMPVYPBvoMyFYt+1UfeDFvZQrLbs93fJUJ cYASIvyZ1QPgJ X9RuzFhLk1PbibwNVhvjetz6qpbefy1bI81YPNfRveCge7JA9X WTAZjmkAOQel+J D4Iq2IoEGurWAbAA1+Q8/6lMSZe9jA== =qyrn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 |
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X86 vs X64
In article , Lucifer
wrote: On a device with 4 gigs RAM is 64 bit windows better than 32 bit? on any device that supports 64 bit |
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X86 vs X64
On 17 Dec 2019, Lucifer wrote
(in ): On a device with 4 gigs RAM is 64 bit windows better than 32 bit? using 64-bit introduces extra overhead, and 32-bit would work fine. But... 1 Microsoft, Apple, and many Linux distros are currently phasing out 32-bit. After a while a 32-bit system will no longer be supported. 2 if you ever put more RAM onto the system, you would need to go to 64-bit. 3 Microsoft makes moving from 32-bit to 64-bit painful. Apple and Linux do a much better job. I’d install 64-bit and live with the extra overhead, or just install more RAM and make the overhead moot. Frankly, I’ve installed 64-bit on Windows 4 GB systems starting with Vista. (Do NOT install 64-bit XP. You have been warned.) On Apple and Linux systems I’ve been going with 64-bit since it was an option. At this late date there’s really no reason to not use 64-bit. |
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X86 vs X64
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Hash: SHA256 Wolffan wrote: On 17 Dec 2019, Lucifer wrote (in ): On a device with 4 gigs RAM is 64 bit windows better than 32 bit? using 64-bit introduces extra overhead, and 32-bit would work fine. This statement depends on a few other questions though. Does the 32-bit OS support PAE? What about the processor? If the answers to both of those are yes, then the 32-bit OS may win out. However, if the answers to the above are 'no', then the next question becomes Is the overhead of your 64-bit OS 500 MB? If the answer to that is "yes", then 64-bit wins hands down -- at least insofar as I recall, Windows historically held approx 500MB of the typical address space reserved for stuff like drivers; and possibly video-RAM (although I can't recall if the total system RAM +vRAM could exceed 4GB on 32 bit machines. I don't have the required hardware to try it). [...] At this late date there’s really no reason to not use 64-bit. Quite so -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl346Y AACgkQjhHd8xJ5 ooHdoAgAp7abL/fWgrxS0DdxG29gJfeKXZmVhQSZoLRob7lvBH0SBHYL1NFBYLtl ZuLJ3RGRpsX15rcR68pPs0oNl0snPo/fPlSJB5UZrrM8ZQv1Ejoe7wmyX7jb0dwR ZiHhrXKdz9U+xtOB1wk1zcLh0wTQ9uxbYsJVxm1UcNZHRSpmoO UAAU+Mk/VTHdxY AZ98D6ZbTDUYrPz/+CSS6N2j+WL1KqEWgmwKeCMeuhcEEYsT5uGqyEGtKk+dJ9Mz Bc1rB811rxWNr3667gwT/dzchb9FjYody0kUrox0ltSm6MLg2AzqrTH9N98lCefL dKcib1aGZtzJWfE7xKQfih6mhCweTg== =jIjU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 |
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X86 vs X64
On 17/12/2019 12.04, Lucifer wrote:
On a device with 4 gigs RAM is 64 bit windows better than 32 bit? *Today*, do not even think of purchasing a 32 bit computer (PC type). And do not install, today, a 32 bit operating system on a 64 bit computer. Unless there is an specific and valid reason to the contrary. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
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X86 vs X64
"Carlos E.R." wrote
| *Today*, do not even think of purchasing a 32 bit computer (PC type). | And do not install, today, a 32 bit operating system on a 64 bit computer. | | Unless there is an specific and valid reason to the contrary. | See the post above. Lucifer apparently finds it very strenuous to type and thus has difficulty being clear, but guessing from the few cryptic lines, it sounds like he has a tablet with Win10-32 but lacks a driver for it, and is wondering what would be involved if he installs 64-bit in order to get the driver. |
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X86 vs X64
On 12/17/19 7:16 AM, Wolffan wrote:
On 17 Dec 2019, Lucifer wrote (in ): On a device with 4 gigs RAM is 64 bit windows better than 32 bit? using 64-bit introduces extra overhead, and 32-bit would work fine. But... 1 Microsoft, Apple, and many Linux distros are currently phasing out 32-bit. After a while a 32-bit system will no longer be supported. I have a somewhat olden 32-bit-only machine (netbook) with Linux from 2018. It's supposed to be supported until 2023. 2 if you ever put more RAM onto the system, you would need to go to 64-bit. The 4GB (for 32-bit OS) RAM limitation has been eliminated (in most CPUs) since the Pentium Pro, however Windows still enforces it. [snip] -- 8 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ A fools prayer: Dear Lord, Please help us not to be blasphemers.In Jesus name we pray.... [Bill Huston] |
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X86 vs X64
On 12/17/19 8:43 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
[snip] If the answer to that is "yes", then 64-bit wins hands down -- at least insofar as I recall, Windows historically held approx 500MB of the typical address space reserved for stuff like drivers; and possibly video-RAM (although I can't recall if the total system RAM +vRAM could exceed 4GB on 32 bit machines. I don't have the required hardware to try it). Most machines use 36 bits for addressing in 32-bit mode (using PAE). windows does support PAE, but still enforces the 4GB limit in most cases. Not all, I remember when I had 32-bit XP on a system with 8GB RAM. A RAMdisk program could use the other 4GB. -- 8 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ A fools prayer: Dear Lord, Please help us not to be blasphemers.In Jesus name we pray.... [Bill Huston] |
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X86 vs X64
"Mark Lloyd" wrote
| | The 4GB (for 32-bit OS) RAM limitation has been eliminated (in most | CPUs) since the Pentium Pro, however Windows still enforces it. | How do you figure that? A function pointer in 32-bit is 4 bytes -- max about 4 billion for an unsigned integer. If you go above that you can't address the memory. |
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X86 vs X64
Mayayana wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote | | The 4GB (for 32-bit OS) RAM limitation has been eliminated (in most | CPUs) since the Pentium Pro, however Windows still enforces it. | How do you figure that? A function pointer in 32-bit is 4 bytes -- max about 4 billion for an unsigned integer. If you go above that you can't address the memory. A PAE OS (and there have been a number of them), do have the ability to access as much as 64GB. Here is an example of a hacked one (hacking method secret). (The 64GB limit applies to legacy Intel processors - there are some processors today with larger limits than that.) http://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/w...nse/memory.htm So what he's done, is bypass the "4GB memory license" (which is actually an address space license). He must use multiple programs, to "consume" all the RAM. The user/kernel split of 2G/2G. means a 32 bit program would normally use up to 2GB. If I run 32-bit Photoshop, it stops around 1.8GB and the 0.2GB might be accommodating the code segments. If I had four separate Photoshop-like programs, they could then use 7.2GB of Geoffs Vista computer. You can also change the user/kernel split to 3GB/1GB. I have done that just one time. I wanted to build Firefox from source, and the xul.dll linking stage wanted ~3GB of RAM and the linker (Visual Studio executable) is LargeAddressAware, so once I rebooted the OS in the new mode, the build could finish (and just barely had enough RAM). So I have taken advantage of modifying the user/kernel split on address space, but this is not recommended for daily usage (as narrowing down the kernel addresses can cause some kind of starvation problem). If you want to build Firefox today, I recommend a 64-bit environment and around 32GB of RAM. That's a "round number" for browser compiles. The 4GB memory license applies to Ring3. If you write a Ring0 driver, then driver code has access to the entire PAE space. But, you can't run Photoshop as a driver... I'm typing this on a copy of WinXP SP3, where the OS has 4GB of addresses, and the RAMDisk gets to use the other 4GB of RAM sticks installed in the machine. I have the evidence right here, of a way to exceed the "Memory License" Microsoft cooked up. This is not Geoffs method, and does not confer much of an advantage. I do like my RAMDisk though, and have had a ton of fun with it, even if this one is a bit small. File systems aren't very fast on the RAMDisk, and it's really not worth getting excited about this mode of operation. There are SSDs which are just as fast. The difference is, the RAMDisk never wears out. 64-bit OSes also have memory licenses, which is why the Test Machine, I had to buy Windows 7 Pro for it, so I could use my memory. With Windows 10, the 64-bit memory license is relatively generous, and it's a bit harder to bump your head. Microsoft makes sure to do stuff like this, so people will buy their outrageously priced Server products (*per-core* license fees). So if you bought the new Mac Pro with 28 core CPU and 1.5TB of RAM, the Windows server OS to run on it and allow all the RAM to be used, might cost you $7000. Instead of $150 for some consumer SKU of OS. That provides an incentive to still have a memory license (force people to use the server OS). More info here, when you're buying your next OS for some out-sized RAM config... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ndows-releases Paul |
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X86 vs X64
On 18/12/2019 01.12, Paul wrote:
I have the evidence right here, of a way to exceed the "Memory License" Microsoft cooked up. This is not Geoffs method, and does not confer much of an advantage. I do .... 64-bit OSes also have memory licenses, which is why the Test Machine, I had to buy Windows 7 Pro for it, so I could use my memory. With Windows 10, the 64-bit memory license is relatively generous, and it's a bit harder to bump your head. Microsoft makes sure to do stuff like this, so people will buy their outrageously priced Server products (*per-core* license fees). So if you bought the new Mac Pro with 28 core CPU and 1.5TB of RAM, the Windows server OS to run on it and allow all the RAM to be used, might cost you $7000. Instead of $150 for some consumer SKU of OS. That provides an incentive to still have a memory license (force people to use the server OS). Memory licenses! I did not know about those. :-/ More info here, when you're buying your next OS for some out-sized RAM config... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...ndows-releases Ah, they call them "limits". Of course. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#13
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X86 vs X64
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 Paul wrote: Mayayana wrote: "Mark Lloyd" wrote | | The 4GB (for 32-bit OS) RAM limitation has been eliminated (in most | CPUs) since the Pentium Pro, however Windows still enforces it. | How do you figure that? A function pointer in 32-bit is 4 bytes -- max about 4 billion for an unsigned integer. If you go above that you can't address the memory. [Microsoft] 64-bit OSes also have memory licenses, which is [...] so people will buy their outrageously priced Server products (*per-core* license fees). That just hurt to read. I mean, can't say I'm surprised; but ... ouch. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl36Ba YACgkQjhHd8xJ5 ooFD0Qf8C+sl65IUHNO+YKj7vUnLomvky1fqnq03e/8Kd6/aGjt24VvaaFnF40JI AZeYR9ekQgF0zH4V2CB3G1uBT1owjlFWK5Ek5l7y/3RyMbqFOsmnBAqDRUAwRKoe VVYXINsjoIatpf7p/KhjjIVFgQUTLHU7TcFkDxUVESYtYURYKBcVpbTnpr5ukgVG ZghphZnw0Zr7so0Qzhu7vgdDQskVcV29PV1oLe5pxRctPPE8rL tPb98wCMyt+Pw2 HPeUu+n/PvXDIZ83KU6TypyqacC7Eizd4HSLezu6ruEI/JIuzqYCkcAb65U0x6ni R7fa08ORrMI6UDlVC6vLlZOQRTHG0w== =DSAM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 |
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X86 vs X64
On 17/12/2019 16.33, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote | *Today*, do not even think of purchasing a 32 bit computer (PC type). | And do not install, today, a 32 bit operating system on a 64 bit computer. | | Unless there is an specific and valid reason to the contrary. | See the post above. Lucifer apparently finds it very strenuous to type and thus has difficulty being clear, but guessing from the few cryptic lines, it sounds like he has a tablet with Win10-32 but lacks a driver for it, and is wondering what would be involved if he installs 64-bit in order to get the driver. Huh. I consider the sale of those tablets a robbery or fraud on unsuspecting victims :-/ -- Cheers, Carlos. |
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X86 vs X64
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 Carlos E.R. wrote: On 17/12/2019 16.33, Mayayana wrote: "Carlos E.R." wrote | *Today*, do not even think of purchasing a 32 bit computer (PC type). | And do not install, today, a 32 bit operating system on a 64 bit computer. | | Unless there is an specific and valid reason to the contrary. | See the post above. Lucifer apparently finds it very strenuous to type and thus has difficulty being clear, but guessing from the few cryptic lines, it sounds like he has a tablet with Win10-32 but lacks a driver for it, and is wondering what would be involved if he installs 64-bit in order to get the driver. Huh. I consider the sale of those tablets a robbery or fraud on unsuspecting victims :-/ I ... guess? But most of those tablets are also chintzy in the first place -- I have one I bought 3 or 4 years ago now, and it was basically a joke back then. Some mobile processor, and like 2G of RAM (some shared w/ graphics) But, the $250 price was acceptable and I didn't need to worry about "will X product work with it" like I had to with some android tablets. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAl36Hr sACgkQjhHd8xJ5 ooEn+Af8DyS+5R2pHgKw22rqPuREmam1WdJjTyB/C38o3BG9kqqdH9zef4p8zIAG ZYJJz0zXm+PYUoIP6Q+wb2ANmpjxRXdr0uHopWFtQZEKYJbrKN R4P+IaFsdoG3wP hy0H/EqjFSMzzJjNS/kw/JAJXjjX/+4jYBdKVC+WpmE4M76Fs/fSq3zPr12pAHl7 zMwy8Fl2TIh0ZQcM7CzP+8suYBkxiFtD3mBQbtVpUCJ8jzC8Ld e5v9+/PqBLWIq7 +zVk+TcqGIhlwrAqwKpT/9RGKxrqVUApDg89UgLqriEIhSVTBpDgnAA0PpZX5DY6 LtVBDCUfidCweADe1sTnPiR2Qka5fg== =Pddg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281 |
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