AbbyyFineReader

On 29/12/2019 21:38, VanguardLH wrote:
Roger wrote:

... none of the compatibility options makes any difference to
FineReader4.0 - it still immediately crashes.

If the app is crashing, there should be events in the Event Viewer.

Yes, there are. They indicate a problem with fobj420.dll - which is one
of the files which FineReader installs. I've tried downloading and
installing a later version of this file - but to no avail.

I wasn't sure when I first asked the question whether it an OS version
problem or a bit-ness problem, because I had only previously run it on
32-bit versions of Windows. But I've now installed it on a W7 Pro 64-bit
system, and it's fine - so it's just W10 which doesn't like it.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Roger Mills wrote:
On 29/12/2019 21:38, VanguardLH wrote:
Roger wrote:

... none of the compatibility options makes any difference to
FineReader4.0 - it still immediately crashes.

If the app is crashing, there should be events in the Event Viewer.

Yes, there are. They indicate a problem with fobj420.dll - which is one
of the files which FineReader installs. I've tried downloading and
installing a later version of this file - but to no avail.

I wasn't sure when I first asked the question whether it an OS version
problem or a bit-ness problem, because I had only previously run it on
32-bit versions of Windows. But I've now installed it on a W7 Pro 64-bit
system, and it's fine - so it's just W10 which doesn't like it.

https://www.epson.eu/viewcon/corpora...units/faq/5078

"RELATES TO:

All Epson Scanners and All-In-One products supplied with
ABBYY FineReader or Presto! PageManager"

Both programs use fobj420.dll.

It's weird, the degree of "coupling" between the two companies,
newsoft and abbyy. It looks like Newsoft provides the decoration
and Abbyy provides the engine. The OEMs using this kind of product,
serve both the Abbyy (old) and Presto (a bit newer) stuff. So maybe
Abbyy decided to license the engine separately, because I did
see mention of an SDK for the engine.

http://download.newsoftinc.com/nai/n...Manager9_E.PDF

https://www.shouldiremoveit.com/Pres...4-program.aspx

I used a DLL site, to get an MD5 value for the file.

https://www.dll4free.com/fobj420.dll.html

(Download button is olive green, small, and on the far right, nearer the top.)

Then plugged in the MD5 here.

https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/...ea07c7/details

LegalCopyright Copyright(c) ABBYY Software House (BIT Software) 1993-1997
TimeStamp 1999:09:02 14:54:24+02:00

It's about 20 years old. Could have been released for Win98.
Likely a TWAIN thing.

The file looks like it *might* be something that
pops up an interface on the screen. But nothing stands
out.

*******

I used

https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/dllexp.zip

and while I don't see much of interest, a thought came to mind.

Does this package need a Visual Studio runtime added to Windows 10 ?

The DLL viewer shows the DLL has C++ code in it.
The tool shows routines (calls) the DLL exports to other code.

https://i.postimg.cc/3RP4hLH2/fobj420.gif

So far, no tool has particularly complained about the
structure of the thing.

And crusty old code like that, it might have Abbyy licensing
detection, and the heuristic detection of Windows Defender
might be "****ing on it when it loads". You can turn off
Windows Defender in Windows 10 Pro using GPEDIT.msc. I would
expect though, that Defender should be logging something,
if it was doing that. The protection on
bare Windows 7 was for spyware, while the protection
on Windows 10 is an AV product.

Paul

Roger Mills wrote:

fobj420.dll

Windows 10 requires signed drivers via authenticode. DLLs are libraries
of functions. Instead of duplicating them into every .exe file, the .dll
is shared; however, often programmers just get into the habit of rolling
their functions into a DLL file even when it is never intended and may
even restrict itself from having its functions called by other programs.
Since Abby might be including drivers (or interfaces to them), and if
those drivers are calling functions from the fobj420.dll file, then the
DLL must be code signed, too. I haven't tracked changes to code signing
in Windows to know if something changed between what was required before
(at one time it wasn't required at all) and what Windows 10 wants now.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...l/authenticode

SHA-1 certs got deprecated back in 2016. Windows 10 expects code
signing to use SHA-256.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...tificates.aspx
https://knowledge.digicert.com/solution/SO27330.html

When trying to slide in a DLL whose functions are called by the .exe
program, you are in effect attempting to alter the code of the program.

VanguardLH wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

fobj420.dll

Windows 10 requires signed drivers via authenticode. DLLs are libraries
of functions. Instead of duplicating them into every .exe file, the .dll
is shared; however, often programmers just get into the habit of rolling
their functions into a DLL file even when it is never intended and may
even restrict itself from having its functions called by other programs.
Since Abby might be including drivers (or interfaces to them), and if
those drivers are calling functions from the fobj420.dll file, then the
DLL must be code signed, too. I haven't tracked changes to code signing
in Windows to know if something changed between what was required before
(at one time it wasn't required at all) and what Windows 10 wants now.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...l/authenticode

SHA-1 certs got deprecated back in 2016. Windows 10 expects code
signing to use SHA-256.

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...tificates.aspx
https://knowledge.digicert.com/solution/SO27330.html

When trying to slide in a DLL whose functions are called by the .exe
program, you are in effect attempting to alter the code of the program.

But the structure of that particular file, doesn't
look like a driver. It looks more like an application perhaps.
The imports it makes, look like an app, the exports it
provides look like a library. A bit on the weird side.

It's supposed to call an existing TWAIN driver, where
the points you make might apply. But then you'd think
there would be a message about the TWAIN file, whatever
one that is.

*******

This might well turn out to be a bogus lead...

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...e-574d27b9f9cf

"Microsoft dropped TWAIN support in Windows 10 in
the Anniversary update, there is no Windows 10 TWAIN driver"

To test for that, you'd plug in a spare drive and
install from an older Windows 10 DVD (with the network cable
disconnected so it doesn't try to download 1909 on you).

Then plug in when you're ready to configure and set
things up. And see if the Abbyy program works again,
using the older OS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ersion_history

2.1 Version 1507
2.2 Version 1511 (November Update) === test here, see if it works
2.3 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update)
2.4 Version 1703 (Creators Update)
2.5 Version 1709 (Fall Creators Update)
2.6 Version 1803 (April 2018 Update)
2.7 Version 1809 (October 2018 Update)
2.8 Version 1903 (May 2019 Update)
2.9 Version 1909 (November 2019 Update)

If the hardware device was USB, you could use VirtualBox
and its USB passthru, to run the test case. That's if you
wanted minimal disturbance to the usage of the rest of
the machine.

*******

There's another failure mode listed here. Namely, the
TWAIN driver isn't in %PATH%.

https://www.tenforums.com/drivers-ha...in-source.html

"you can solve adding to PATH variable, the location of
twain folder (in my case C:\Windows\Twain32\CNQ4803)"

The last time I wanted to mod the PATH, I had
a hell of a time getting it to work. It was
driving me nuts.

Paul

On 30/12/2019 13:25, Fokke Nauta wrote:
On 29/12/2019 21:26, Roger Mills wrote:


I don't suppose you fancy uploading a copy somewhere where I can
access it?

I was wrong. I got it in 2008. I got the mail and serial number from
Abbyy themselves. Perhaps I purchased it, I can't remember. I guess I
got the previous version (4.0 Pro) from the UK magazine PC Pro.

I got mine from PcPlus magazine, and there was a problem with the
initial installation. IIRC they issued a correction the following month.
It's the corrected version which I've been running for many years, but
which won't run on W10.

I don't mind sending you a copy of Pro 6.0, but you'll need a
registration number. And I don't think it's a good idea to register two
versions with the same serial number. I'm sorry ...


I've installed v4 on several systems - W98, XP, W7 - over the years,
always with the same serial number without any problem. Although after
each installation it has invited me to register online in order to
receive various goodies, I never have and it only asks once.

I'd be surprised if V6 was any different in this respect. You could
check it out by installing it on another of your systems - assuming that
you have more than one computer. If you could see your way to sending me
the installation files along with a valid serial number, I would be
eternally grateful.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 06:18:02 -0500, Paul wrote:

*******

There's another failure mode listed here. Namely, the
TWAIN driver isn't in %PATH%.

https://www.tenforums.com/drivers-ha...in-source.html

"you can solve adding to PATH variable, the location of
twain folder (in my case C:\Windows\Twain32\CNQ4803)"

The last time I wanted to mod the PATH, I had
a hell of a time getting it to work. It was
driving me nuts.

Is that a serious complaint or am I missing something? My memory only goes
back to about DOS 3.3, but from then until now I don't think there has been
a MS OS where modifying the path wasn't simple and straightforward.

Just the other day I added dig and curl to a Win 10 system and had to add a
custom folder to the Path variable. No issues at all, and not even a reboot
required.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 06:18:02 -0500, Paul wrote:

*******

There's another failure mode listed here. Namely, the
TWAIN driver isn't in %PATH%.

https://www.tenforums.com/drivers-ha...in-source.html

"you can solve adding to PATH variable, the location of
twain folder (in my case C:\Windows\Twain32\CNQ4803)"

The last time I wanted to mod the PATH, I had
a hell of a time getting it to work. It was
driving me nuts.

Is that a serious complaint or am I missing something? My memory only goes
back to about DOS 3.3, but from then until now I don't think there has been
a MS OS where modifying the path wasn't simple and straightforward.

Just the other day I added dig and curl to a Win 10 system and had to add a
custom folder to the Path variable. No issues at all, and not even a reboot
required.


I was adding stuff to %path% manually, and after
a reboot, the shell didn't have the added stuff
showing in it. I can't remember now how that resolved
(I think I eventually got it running). All I can remember
was my blood pressure was a little higher after the
session. I checked and checked that I'd clicked
every "Apply" and "OK" in sight. That's why the blood
pressure was going up.

There is supposed to be a tool for "Validating" the
TWAIN end of things. Don't know a thing about it.

https://developer.dynamsoft.com/dwt/kb/2644

Paul

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 14:31:47 -0500, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 06:18:02 -0500, Paul wrote:

*******

There's another failure mode listed here. Namely, the
TWAIN driver isn't in %PATH%.

https://www.tenforums.com/drivers-ha...in-source.html

"you can solve adding to PATH variable, the location of
twain folder (in my case C:\Windows\Twain32\CNQ4803)"

The last time I wanted to mod the PATH, I had
a hell of a time getting it to work. It was
driving me nuts.

Is that a serious complaint or am I missing something? My memory only goes
back to about DOS 3.3, but from then until now I don't think there has been
a MS OS where modifying the path wasn't simple and straightforward.

Just the other day I added dig and curl to a Win 10 system and had to add a
custom folder to the Path variable. No issues at all, and not even a reboot
required.


I was adding stuff to %path% manually, and after

I don't know what manually means, (at a Command Prompt?) but I type "path"
in the Windows search box and "Edit the system variables" becomes the top
hit. I select that, which opens System Properties to the Advanced tab, then
I select Environment Variables. In there, you can add/delete/edit system
variables for the current user or for the system. I select "Path" in the
lower section, (System variables), then Edit. On the next screen, I add my
custom folder, in this case "C:\dig". Exit out of there and open a Command
Prompt to verify that the new folder is now included in the Path. No reboot
required.

You can also get there by right clicking "This PC" and selecting
Properties, then "Advanced System Settings".

a reboot, the shell didn't have the added stuff
showing in it. I can't remember now how that resolved
(I think I eventually got it running). All I can remember
was my blood pressure was a little higher after the
session. I checked and checked that I'd clicked
every "Apply" and "OK" in sight. That's why the blood
pressure was going up.

Above, I thought you were modifying the path variable from a Command
Prompt, but there aren't any "Apply" and "OK" buttons there, so I don't
know.

On 31/12/2019 12:34, Roger Mills wrote:
On 30/12/2019 13:25, Fokke Nauta wrote:
On 29/12/2019 21:26, Roger Mills wrote:


I don't suppose you fancy uploading a copy somewhere where I can
access it?

I was wrong. I got it in 2008. I got the mail and serial number from
Abbyy themselves. Perhaps I purchased it, I can't remember. I guess I
got the previous version (4.0 Pro) from the UK magazine PC Pro.

I got mine from PcPlus magazine, and there was a problem with the
initial installation. IIRC they issued a correction the following month.
It's the corrected version which I've been running for many years, but
which won't run on W10.

I don't mind sending you a copy of Pro 6.0, but you'll need a
registration number. And I don't think it's a good idea to register two
versions with the same serial number. I'm sorry ...


I've installed v4 on several systems - W98, XP, W7 - over the years,
always with the same serial number without any problem. Although after
each installation it has invited me to register online in order to
receive various goodies, I never have and it only asks once.

I'd be surprised if V6 was any different in this respect. You could
check it out by installing it on another of your systems - assuming that
you have more than one computer. If you could see your way to sending me
the installation files along with a valid serial number, I would be
eternally grateful.

Please send me a mail:

Fokke