Anyway to fix a battery that's gone bad?

I have a cheapy HP laptop running WinBlows 10 (bought at Walmart).

Was working fine, right up until...

Recently went on vacation for a few weeks, leaving the laptop at home, unplugged.

When I got back, laptop would not stay up (booted) for more than a few
minutes. Kept crashing and seems the problem is the battery, which would
not hold a charge (onscreen battery status shows "0% charged").
Charger/power supply is working (see below).

Eventually figured out how to remove the battery, now the laptop works fine
(as long as AC power is good). This is fine, and is, actually, a common
solution (I have a long history of this sort of thing happening to laptops;
the basic takeaway is that the battery is the most vulnerable part of any
apparatus that has a battery). Still, this is a relatively new laptop;
this should not have happened this soon and, I'm pretty sure it happened
because the thing was left unplugged for 3 weeks.

Any suggestions on ways to get the battery working again?

--
I'll give him credit for one thing: He is (& will be) the most quotable President
ever. Books have been written about (GW) Bushisms, but Dubya's got nothing on Trump.

Tremendously wet - from the standpoint of water.

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 06:28:40 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

Any suggestions on ways to get the battery working again?

In reality, it's probably not worth it, but a battery is a bunch of cells,
each of which has a positive and negative side (anode & cathode).

In a string of batteries, if the "middle" cell goes dead first, the "other"
cells cause it to "reverse polarize", to the point that it may never take a
charge again, as I recall (long ago, dealing with NiCads).

The "trick", at that time, was to "separate" the batteries, and zap them
individually, with the correct polarized voltage ... which often worked
(for NiCads anyway).

The problem is that the soldered connections are fancier nowadays, such
that if you separate the cells, you may never get them back again to fit
into the original size.

Such is progress...

Dunno if Lithium batteries are subject to this phenomenon though, where I
let others ream me if I'm incorrect in my hopefully helpful advice to you.

On 9/27/19 1:16 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 06:28:40 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

Any suggestions on ways to get the battery working again?

In reality, it's probably not worth it, but a battery is a bunch of cells,
each of which has a positive and negative side (anode & cathode).

In a string of batteries, if the "middle" cell goes dead first, the "other"
cells cause it to "reverse polarize", to the point that it may never take a
charge again, as I recall (long ago, dealing with NiCads).

The "trick", at that time, was to "separate" the batteries, and zap them
individually, with the correct polarized voltage ... which often worked
(for NiCads anyway).

The problem is that the soldered connections are fancier nowadays, such
that if you separate the cells, you may never get them back again to fit
into the original size.

Such is progress...

Dunno if Lithium batteries are subject to this phenomenon though, where I
let others ream me if I'm incorrect in my hopefully helpful advice to you.

To the best of my knowledge, Arlen is right, about Ni-Cad batteries.

But computers use Lithium Ion batteries, and they begin discharging from
the moment manufacturing is finished. It's the name of the game.

Internally, the the battery you buy for a laptop, in most cases, are
just a series of AA rechargeable batteries similar to the ones you buy
for flashlights, remote controls, etc. Whether or not you could
disassemble and determine the problem battery is something I would not
consider to be worth my time. Most are just not that expensive.

I've had the individual rechargeable batteries go bad after time. PITA
to determine which one is bad.

You could reinstall the battery pack, then run the W10 version of the
power command in a command window which will give you a readout of the
status of the battery pack. I can never remember the command, but
it's available with a web search.

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...

I've had the individual rechargeable batteries go bad after time. PITA to
determine which one is bad.

You could reinstall the battery pack, then run the W10 version of the
power command in a command window which will give you a readout of the
status of the battery pack. I can never remember the command, but it's
available with a web search.

What is the best advice for prolonging the lifetime of laptop batteries when
the laptop is mostly used on mains but may at a moment's notice be needed to
run on battery, preferably without requiring it to be shutdown while battery
is connected/disconnected, and ideally with a fully-charged battery? You can
cycle the battery by disconnecting the mains once the battery is fully
charged, let it run down to some point and then carry on using it while it
recharges. Is is best to do this continuously, and not to leave it charging
once it has got to 100%? The problem with cycling the charge is that sod's
law says that you need to go onto battery at the point where the battery is
low and you are about to recharge it :-(

And what about for modern laptops which do not have removable batteries.

I ask because every single laptop I've had has suffered from a battery that
suddenly decides not to hold any charge, and that's with disconnecting it
whenever the laptop is not booted up, and part-discharging the battery every
few days even when I'm able to connect it to mains. Batteries that are
fitted by the laptop manufacturer do not seem to be any better than
third-party clones - they all suffer the same fate after about 3 years.

On 9/27/2019 2:28 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
I have a cheapy HP laptop running WinBlows 10 (bought at Walmart).

Was working fine, right up until...

Recently went on vacation for a few weeks, leaving the laptop at home, unplugged.

When I got back, laptop would not stay up (booted) for more than a few
minutes. Kept crashing and seems the problem is the battery, which would
not hold a charge (onscreen battery status shows "0% charged").
Charger/power supply is working (see below).

Eventually figured out how to remove the battery, now the laptop works fine
(as long as AC power is good). This is fine, and is, actually, a common
solution (I have a long history of this sort of thing happening to laptops;
the basic takeaway is that the battery is the most vulnerable part of any
apparatus that has a battery). Still, this is a relatively new laptop;
this should not have happened this soon and, I'm pretty sure it happened
because the thing was left unplugged for 3 weeks.

Any suggestions on ways to get the battery working again?

If you go on line Walmart you can get HP laptop batteries for about $30
depending on the model. While more that I would consider in expensive,
it is a lot cheaper that replacing the computer

--
Judge your ancestors by how well they met their standards not yours.
They did not know your standards, so could not try to meet them.

https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/laptop-battery

On 9/27/19 2:28 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
I have a cheapy HP laptop running WinBlows 10 (bought at Walmart).

Was working fine, right up until...

Recently went on vacation for a few weeks, leaving the laptop at home, unplugged.

When I got back, laptop would not stay up (booted) for more than a few
minutes. Kept crashing and seems the problem is the battery, which would
not hold a charge (onscreen battery status shows "0% charged").
Charger/power supply is working (see below).

Eventually figured out how to remove the battery, now the laptop works fine
(as long as AC power is good). This is fine, and is, actually, a common
solution (I have a long history of this sort of thing happening to laptops;
the basic takeaway is that the battery is the most vulnerable part of any
apparatus that has a battery). Still, this is a relatively new laptop;
this should not have happened this soon and, I'm pretty sure it happened
because the thing was left unplugged for 3 weeks.

Any suggestions on ways to get the battery working again?

i keep my laptop on power as much as possible. I use it on battery now
and then but reconnect asap. I can get 3 years easy on one battery. My
current Dell is 3 years old and I've seen none to little degradation.

Now and then I get suspicious battery readings. If so, I just discharge
it to 10-20 % and then put it back on power.

I've always thought (and read) that batteries are good for X number of
recharge cycles. And recharging 20%, then 40% then 40% = 100% or one
charge cycle. So you get just so much, and doing a drain and recharge
is foolish. But that's my humble opinion and reading.

Il giorno Fri 27 Sep 2019 08:28:40a, *Kenny McCormack* ha inviato su
alt.comp.os.windows-10 il messaggio .
Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

Still, this is a relatively new laptop;
this should not have happened this soon

check warranty first, then go to walmart as suggested

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
http://www.bb2002.it
............ [ al lavoro ] ...........

On 9/27/19 3:58 AM, NY wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...

I've had the individual rechargeable batteries go bad after time. PITA to
determine which one is bad.

You could reinstall the battery pack, then run the W10 version of the
power command in a command window which will give you a readout of the
status of the battery pack. I can never remember the command, but it's
available with a web search.

Not having a Masters or Doctorate in lithium ion batteries... LOL

What is the best advice for prolonging the lifetime of laptop batteries when
the laptop is mostly used on mains but may at a moment's notice be needed to
run on battery, preferably without requiring it to be shutdown while battery
is connected/disconnected, and ideally with a fully-charged battery?

In creating a handout to be given to customers when the picked up their
newly repaired computer, I did some internet research on the batteries,
and in many cases I found varying pieces of info.

*My* gut feeling is, it will most likely depend on the quality of the
battery manufacturing, the design of the components in power
consumption, and the habits of the user.

You can
cycle the battery by disconnecting the mains once the battery is fully
charged, let it run down to some point and then carry on using it while it
recharges.

As Arlen may confirm, if laptops used NI-Cad batteries, this would be a
huge, huge no-no. But, IIRC, I found nothing that said this practice is
good or bad.

Is is best to do this continuously, and not to leave it charging
once it has got to 100%? The problem with cycling the charge is that sod's
law says that you need to go onto battery at the point where the battery is
low and you are about to recharge it :-(

For the info I accessed, generally, fully charging or discharging the
battery was not conducive to long life. The consensus was, keep your
battery 40%-70% charged. Common sense tells you that if you need to be
somewhere, and using the charger/adapter is not likely for longer
periods, make sure the battery is fully charged, and go with it.

And what about for modern laptops which do not have removable batteries.

You have to disassemble them to change batteries. :-) That's what you
get for wanting those ultraslim models. AFAIK, lithium ion is lithium
ion is lithium ion...

I ask because every single laptop I've had has suffered from a battery that
suddenly decides not to hold any charge, and that's with disconnecting it
whenever the laptop is not booted up, and part-discharging the battery every
few days even when I'm able to connect it to mains.

I suspect that's the way lithium ion batteries work. Lithium ion
batteries try to deliver the full voltage until the charge runs out,
then just drops off. Alkaline batteries simply slowly decline in
voltage output. I suspect that, once the lithium ion battery has
reached the end of "design life", they simply quit, or very close to it.

That's why my opinion is to run the power command available in a command
window to occasionally check the battery's status, and judge accordingly.

Batteries that are
fitted by the laptop manufacturer do not seem to be any better than
third-party clones - they all suffer the same fate after about 3 years.

That may be, I'm not a regular user of laptops, generally dislike the
things.



--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 9/27/19 6:22 AM, Big Al wrote:
On 9/27/19 2:28 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
I have a cheapy HP laptop running WinBlows 10 (bought at Walmart).

Was working fine, right up until...

Recently went on vacation for a few weeks, leaving the laptop at home, unplugged.

When I got back, laptop would not stay up (booted) for more than a few
minutes. Kept crashing and seems the problem is the battery, which would
not hold a charge (onscreen battery status shows "0% charged").
Charger/power supply is working (see below).

Eventually figured out how to remove the battery, now the laptop works fine
(as long as AC power is good). This is fine, and is, actually, a common
solution (I have a long history of this sort of thing happening to laptops;
the basic takeaway is that the battery is the most vulnerable part of any
apparatus that has a battery). Still, this is a relatively new laptop;
this should not have happened this soon and, I'm pretty sure it happened
because the thing was left unplugged for 3 weeks.

Any suggestions on ways to get the battery working again?

i keep my laptop on power as much as possible. I use it on battery now
and then but reconnect asap. I can get 3 years easy on one battery. My
current Dell is 3 years old and I've seen none to little degradation.

Now and then I get suspicious battery readings. If so, I just discharge
it to 10-20 % and then put it back on power.

I've always thought (and read) that batteries are good for X number of
recharge cycles. And recharging 20%, then 40% then 40% = 100% or one
charge cycle. So you get just so much, and doing a drain and recharge
is foolish. But that's my humble opinion and reading.

The power command will tell you what the designed fully charge for your
battery is, and what the current full charge the battery is capable of.


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 10:58:43 +0100, "NY" wrote:

I ask because every single laptop I've had has suffered from a battery that
suddenly decides not to hold any charge, and that's with disconnecting it
whenever the laptop is not booted up, and part-discharging the battery every
few days even when I'm able to connect it to mains. Batteries that are
fitted by the laptop manufacturer do not seem to be any better than
third-party clones - they all suffer the same fate after about 3 years.

I have two laptops that were purchased in 2010 and 2013. Both are
configured to use a power profile that keeps their batteries charged to
between 50%-70%, with occasional charges to 100%. This many years later,
both laptops run more than an hour on battery, and that's even if I'm
starting from only 50%. 60-90 minutes is less than when they were new, but
it's all I need so I have no plans to do anything differently.

Ken Springer wrote:
[...]
That's why my opinion is to run the power command available in a command
window to occasionally check the battery's status, and judge accordingly.

I think you mean the 'powercfg' command and specifically:

powercfg /batteryreport

which generates a .html file in your current directory.

The HTML report (viewable in your web-browser) contains all kinds of
details, including the deterioration of full capacity (in mWh) over time.

Note that the report mentions 'DESIGN CAPACITY' but that's not what
you might think it is, because it is not a static value, but also
changing/deteriorating over time.

FWIW, after nearly four and a half years, the 'FULL CHARGE CAPACITY/
DESIGN CAPACITY' of the battery of my (HP Pavilion 15-p142nd) laptop -
which is nearly always connected to mains power - is down to 82% of its
original capacity.

Char Jackson wrote:
[...]

I have two laptops that were purchased in 2010 and 2013. Both are
configured to use a power profile that keeps their batteries charged to
between 50%-70%, with occasional charges to 100%.

Sadly, very few laptops have such a profile because they lack the
underlying (ACPI? (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface)) battery/
charge control software.

I wish that our HP laptops had it, because they're mostly connected to
mains power, which ruins the batteries.

[...]

On 9/27/19 10:01 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 9/27/19 6:22 AM, Big Al wrote:
On 9/27/19 2:28 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
I have a cheapy HP laptop running WinBlows 10 (bought at Walmart).

Was working fine, right up until...

Recently went on vacation for a few weeks, leaving the laptop at
home, unplugged.

When I got back, laptop would not stay up (booted) for more than a few
minutes. Kept crashing and seems the problem is the battery, which would
not hold a charge (onscreen battery status shows "0% charged").
Charger/power supply is working (see below).

Eventually figured out how to remove the battery, now the laptop
works fine
(as long as AC power is good).Â* This is fine, and is, actually, a common
solution (I have a long history of this sort of thing happening to
laptops;
the basic takeaway is that the battery is the most vulnerable part of
any
apparatus that has a battery).Â* Still, this is a relatively new laptop;
this should not have happened this soon and, I'm pretty sure it happened
because the thing was left unplugged for 3 weeks.

Any suggestions on ways to get the battery working again?

i keep my laptop on power as much as possible.Â*Â* I use it on battery now
and then but reconnect asap.Â* I can get 3 years easy on one battery.Â* My
current Dell is 3 years old and I've seen none to little degradation.

Now and then I get suspicious battery readings.Â* If so, I just discharge
it to 10-20 % and then put it back on power.

I've always thought (and read) that batteries are good for X number of
recharge cycles.Â* And recharging 20%, then 40% then 40% = 100% or one
charge cycle.Â*Â* So you get just so much, and doing a drain and recharge
is foolish.Â*Â* But that's my humble opinion and reading.

The power command will tell you what the designed fully charge for your
battery is, and what the current full charge the battery is capable of.


I've seen those stats someplace. I'm not running Windows now but I've
seen them someplace and was surprised to see how my oldest laptop was
holding up.

Al

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 07:47:22 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

As Arlen may confirm, if laptops used NI-Cad batteries, this would be a
huge, huge no-no. But, IIRC, I found nothing that said this practice is
good or bad.

As Ken Springer noted, due to our personal "memory effect", we're taxing
our memories, but as I recall, NASA found out, the hard way, that nicad
batteries had their own brand of "memory effect", where this chart seems to
run a quick comparison of the two types.
https://housetechlab.com/nicad-vs-lithium-ion-battery-which-is-better-for-cordless-tools/

Physicists always find out that nothing is as we originally were told...
o Memory effect now also found in lithium-ion batteries
https://phys.org/news/2013-04-memory-effect-lithium-ion-batteries.html

Maybe what we need to look at, for laptops, is the "refractory period"?
"The time that elapses between charging and discharging a battery plays
an important role in determining the state of the battery at the end of
these processes."

As for laptop repair, this is the status of my previous project in saving
the battery of an IBM, as I recall, (not Lenovo, mind you, but IBM - and
yes - I never completed the project - I'm still waiting for a way around
the problems)
https://i.postimg.cc/hGNpgy4v/ibm-th...op-battery.jpg


Notice the DIFFERENTLY SHAPED batteries in that IBM Thinkpad laptop.
Also, there's a "chip" in there, I forget offhand where, which REMEMBERS
that it was discharged ... which screws up everything ... as I recall.

But, the memory effect is such that I don't remember the details,
where, rest assured, I failed. A new battery is more than the laptop is
worth. It's kind of why I went to desktops, after that, and tablets, and
phablet phones, instead of laptops. (Although I miss a keyboard on them.)

Big Al wrote :
I've always thought (and read) that batteries are good for X number of
recharge cycles. And recharging 20%, then 40% then 40% = 100% or one charge
cycle. So you get just so much, and doing a drain and recharge is foolish.
But that's my humble opinion and reading.

My always on mains laptop supports that idea too. I've had it over
three years, I rarely run on battery, as new it suggested 3.5hours, it
still says 3.5 hours when I do run a test on battery for a while.