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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition



 
 
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  #121  
Old December 8th 19, 03:01 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

In article , Ken Springer
wrote:


I typically clean up any files I get in UTF-8. They're not
worth the trouble. With webpages it's usually just
non-breaking spaces and curly quotes that make it UTF-8.
And those webpages are in English. So there's no advantage
to UTF-8.

To me it seems that the real motive is political correctness.
Inclusiveness. For us English speakers that's not a reason
to use it.


Much as I hate to say this, nospam is correct.

It's for correct typography. More broadly, it to ensure correct written
communications, where everyone writes following the same rules. In
turn, that helps to minimize misunderstandings by the reader.

Sadly, the texting world is destroying this.


there is no need for proper typography for informal communications.

texting has its own patterns due to originally being limited in length,
even though that no longer applies.
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  #122  
Old December 8th 19, 03:01 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

In article , Ken Springer
wrote:


But I don't think it's their fault. Computers are very
complex tools made by linear/logical thinkers. Someone
could just as well say it drives them crazy that some
people don't know how to act with children, or bake a
cake... or change an alternator. There's nothing intuitive
about computers. I learned because I'm a handyman by
nature and I was intrigued, in part by the sheer
opaqueness of the thing. Everything was hard to figure
out. Nothing in my experience prepared me for the most
basic task of accessing a floppy disk from the Desktop.
And it wasn't in the Windows manual. (Which used to
exist.) I read books and did research. There's no reason
other people should want to do that.


It's partially their fault, in that so many of them do not make an
effort to learn. It's not helped by the disappearance of the manuals
that used to come with the systems, as well as books and magazines
available on the racks at various locations.


it's never the fault of the user.

if a device is hard to use, then its designers have failed.

babies, who haven't yet learned how to talk or read and who have *zero*
experience in using computers or other tech products, know how to use a
smartphone or tablet.

the problem is designing a good user interface is *really* difficult to
do, so most companies don't bother, instead doing a half-assed job and
let the customer figure it out.

this sums it up:
https://miro.medium.com/max/480/1*EAeOZ4UBmeYfkSXP4tZrIA.jpeg

Contrary to the opinions of some who post in this group, there is
*always* someone without that experience.


nobody said otherwise, nor is any experience needed.

well designed products are easy to use for those with little to no
experience yet offers advanced functionality for those who want to dig
deeper.


Under the skin, you're right, computers are complex. It's the UI that
makes the difference, IMO.


a good ui hides that complexity.

Each system has its pluses and minuses.


everything does.

I generally break users into 2 groups: If they are logical thinkers, they
will probably prefer Windows. If they are creative, non-logical
thinkers, they will probably like Mac better.


not true at all.

in fact, it's the opposite. logical thinkers choose what's best for a
given task, which could be mac, windows, linux, chromebook, ios,
android or something else.




Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs?


yes, along with a lot more.
  #123  
Old December 8th 19, 03:43 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

"Ken Springer" wrote

| I'll admit, it was a single thing I saw with the iMac that sold me. The
| quality of the display. The image was astounding, far better than
| anything I'd seen with a Windows system.

Yes. The attention to detail is a delight. I'm not
wild about hiring a 12-year-old girl to design cutesy,
Looney Tunes icons, but aside from that it's almost
astonishingly tasteful.

A few years ago I tried Suse and noticed that was
also much better looking on the same hardware as
Windows. I don't know why Windows graphics are not
better. But it does seem that with Mac you get better
display and better design. Maybe MS make a point of
making it look generic. Like a pickup truck or sedan.
The design says, "get something done".

| I wonder what percentage of business actually create their own custom
| applications?
|

A lot. I have no figures. And I have virtually no direct
experience
with corporate business. I've never had an office job. But
I know that when MS decided to pull the plug on VB6 it was
estimated that there were 1 million VB programmers. It was
part of a big trend: RAD. Rapid Application Development.
Delphi was another popular tool. And even VC++ was a much
easier version of C++, with RAD elements like easy GUI
design.
A lot of that was database software. Microsoft bent over
backward to make it possible for people to write highly
functional software by pasting together components. They've
always provided lots of tools for all levels of expertise.

The next big change was with .Net, where they tried to move
everyone by force to web apps. That took almost 20 more
years to happen, but Microsoft kept at it. Dotnet was still
very successful serverside and in companies. Even though it
was poorly suited to Desktop, MS kept pushing it. Today I
expect web scripting is probably the hottest skill, but for a
long time, programming jobs typically required dotnet or Java.
Common commercial software is not written in those languages.
It's all about custom business software and backend, server-side
functionality. (Also custom.)

Yet even today, 20 years after VB6 was "deprecated", VB6
and VC6 are still the most widely supported tools on Windows.
The runtimes are still shipped because businesses are still
running a lot of older custom software. I can write software
in VB6 that will run without any extra support files, and without
needing installation, on virtually any Windows machine still
running.

(I used to know a project manager who ran custom software
development for various companies. Her job was to keep
the programmers on track. Some in the US and a night shift
in India. They mostly used dotnet. I asked her why dotnet was
more succcessful than Java, its competitor. [Both are
simplified, high-level, object-oriented, wrapper systems that run
with JIT compiling on top of a giant runtime that translates
to API. Both focus on flexibility and RAD over efficiency.]
She said it was because the tools are so much better.)

| I wish I would win the lottery. Then I could hire maids and handymen,
| so I would have the time to learn more about Linux. LOL
|

I explored it a fair amount but ended up feeling that
it was a big time sucker. Everything changes. Everything
requires tweaking. Nothing is simple because the people
who use it like to feel like coding commandos. So everyone
brags about using a "shell", by which they mean a console
window where they run DOS-esque commands. The problem
I always ran into was that once I got settled and comfortable
there just wasn't anything to do. No software to speak of.
There are thousands of half-finished things created by
geeks and teenagers trying to impress their friends. But not
much in terms of stable, supported, finished productivity
software. Even the OS itself gets very limited support.
It's beta mania. I've always thought of it as the race
car owned by a greasemonkey -- always on the front lawn
with Bondo and primer on it; never actually being driven.

| Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs?
|

Probably. And graphics. But that was way back when Apple
was ahead of Windows with graphics. They ended up having
a reputation for being superior for a long time. Long after
Windows caught up. So graphic artists still tend to use Macs.
After all, it's the computer for talented, creative people who
"think different". But Apple never made any effort to
accomodate business. Jobs wanted control. Businesses
want their own control. Macs never became popular until
there was a market for casual entertainment use of
computers.

There's a story about the display. I think it was in Wired
that I read it. Bill Gates was visiting Apple. He was in
a room with Jobs and a number of other people. Jobs
had a tantrum, blaming Gates for stealing Apple's ideas
in terms of GUI. Gates calmly responded that he saw it
differently: He and Jobs had a rich neighbor with a big
TV set, named Xerox. They both plotted to break in and
steal the TV. Jobs just happened to break in before
Gates got there. According to the article, the other
people in the room knew that Gates was right.

| These days, I couldn't live without spellcheck.

The woman I live with loves it, but mostly for entertainment.
"Look! It turned Kantef into fatten! Ha ha!" I find it irritating.
Similarly with search suggestions and auto-complete
suggestions. I don't want the software instigating actions
I didn't request. It's distracting.


  #124  
Old December 8th 19, 03:46 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

"Ken Blake" wrote

| If you're happy with that, that's fine. I won't try to convince you to
| change. But I'll just point out that I can do a search within Quicken
| and find what I want *much* *much* faster than you can thumbing through
| a file of receipts.
|

Well, yes... assuming you have a secretary who's
entering all that data into the program in the first
place.


  #125  
Old December 8th 19, 03:55 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| If you're happy with that, that's fine. I won't try to convince you to
| change. But I'll just point out that I can do a search within Quicken
| and find what I want *much* *much* faster than you can thumbing through
| a file of receipts.
|

Well, yes... assuming you have a secretary who's
entering all that data into the program in the first
place.


it can be automated.
  #126  
Old December 8th 19, 03:55 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs?
|

Probably. And graphics. But that was way back when Apple
was ahead of Windows with graphics. They ended up having
a reputation for being superior for a long time. Long after
Windows caught up. So graphic artists still tend to use Macs.
After all, it's the computer for talented, creative people who
"think different".


ok so far, despite your digs.

But Apple never made any effort to
accomodate business. Jobs wanted control. Businesses
want their own control. Macs never became popular until
there was a market for casual entertainment use of
computers.


nonsense.
  #127  
Old December 8th 19, 04:55 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Rene Lamontagne
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Posts: 2,549
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On 2019-12-07 8:55 p.m., nospam wrote:
In article , Mayayana
wrote:

| Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs?
|

Probably. And graphics. But that was way back when Apple
was ahead of Windows with graphics. They ended up having
a reputation for being superior for a long time. Long after
Windows caught up. So graphic artists still tend to use Macs.
After all, it's the computer for talented, creative people who
"think different".


ok so far, despite your digs.

But Apple never made any effort to
accomodate business. Jobs wanted control. Businesses
want their own control. Macs never became popular until
there was a market for casual entertainment use of
computers.


nonsense.



Nonsense is a communication, via speech, writing, or any other symbolic
system, that lacks any coherent meaning.

Rene


  #128  
Old December 8th 19, 05:09 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On 12/7/19 7:43 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote

| I'll admit, it was a single thing I saw with the iMac that sold me. The
| quality of the display. The image was astounding, far better than
| anything I'd seen with a Windows system.

Yes. The attention to detail is a delight. I'm not
wild about hiring a 12-year-old girl to design cutesy,
Looney Tunes icons, but aside from that it's almost
astonishingly tasteful.


Imo, the quality of the icon design has gone downhill over the last few
years. Not just Apple, but every where. They are no longer visually
intuitive.

A few years ago I tried Suse and noticed that was
also much better looking on the same hardware as
Windows. I don't know why Windows graphics are not
better. But it does seem that with Mac you get better
display and better design. Maybe MS make a point of
making it look generic. Like a pickup truck or sedan.
The design says, "get something done".


Since the hardware was the same, isn't that an indication the answer is
in the quality of the driver's code?

The current iMac, and device screens are the retina design. I don't
know what that means at the techno level, other than it's proprietary
tech at some level.

| I wonder what percentage of business actually create their own custom
| applications?
|

A lot. I have no figures. And I have virtually no direct
experience
with corporate business. I've never had an office job. But
I know that when MS decided to pull the plug on VB6 it was
estimated that there were 1 million VB programmers. It was
part of a big trend: RAD. Rapid Application Development.
Delphi was another popular tool. And even VC++ was a much
easier version of C++, with RAD elements like easy GUI
design.


I don't have any contact with corporate business, either.

A lot of that was database software. Microsoft bent over
backward to make it possible for people to write highly
functional software by pasting together components. They've
always provided lots of tools for all levels of expertise.


Some businesses will have departments create a database or two in Access
for a department's use. I know of one, anyway. Then they fired the
person who created it. She left no instructions about it either. Hope
they never need to modify it. LOL

The next big change was with .Net, where they tried to move
everyone by force to web apps. That took almost 20 more
years to happen, but Microsoft kept at it. Dotnet was still
very successful serverside and in companies. Even though it
was poorly suited to Desktop, MS kept pushing it. Today I
expect web scripting is probably the hottest skill, but for a
long time, programming jobs typically required dotnet or Java.
Common commercial software is not written in those languages.
It's all about custom business software and backend, server-side
functionality. (Also custom.)

Yet even today, 20 years after VB6 was "deprecated", VB6
and VC6 are still the most widely supported tools on Windows.
The runtimes are still shipped because businesses are still
running a lot of older custom software. I can write software
in VB6 that will run without any extra support files, and without
needing installation, on virtually any Windows machine still
running.

(I used to know a project manager who ran custom software
development for various companies. Her job was to keep
the programmers on track. Some in the US and a night shift
in India. They mostly used dotnet. I asked her why dotnet was
more succcessful than Java, its competitor. [Both are
simplified, high-level, object-oriented, wrapper systems that run
with JIT compiling on top of a giant runtime that translates
to API. Both focus on flexibility and RAD over efficiency.]
She said it was because the tools are so much better.)

| I wish I would win the lottery. Then I could hire maids and handymen,
| so I would have the time to learn more about Linux. LOL
|

I explored it a fair amount but ended up feeling that
it was a big time sucker. Everything changes. Everything
requires tweaking. Nothing is simple because the people
who use it like to feel like coding commandos. So everyone
brags about using a "shell", by which they mean a console
window where they run DOS-esque commands. The problem
I always ran into was that once I got settled and comfortable
there just wasn't anything to do. No software to speak of.
There are thousands of half-finished things created by
geeks and teenagers trying to impress their friends. But not
much in terms of stable, supported, finished productivity
software. Even the OS itself gets very limited support.
It's beta mania. I've always thought of it as the race
car owned by a greasemonkey -- always on the front lawn
with Bondo and primer on it; never actually being driven.


Or, an older British car? LOL

| Didn't desktop publishing get it's start with Macs?
|

Probably. And graphics. But that was way back when Apple
was ahead of Windows with graphics. They ended up having
a reputation for being superior for a long time. Long after
Windows caught up. So graphic artists still tend to use Macs.
After all, it's the computer for talented, creative people who
"think different". But Apple never made any effort to
accomodate business. Jobs wanted control. Businesses
want their own control. Macs never became popular until
there was a market for casual entertainment use of
computers.

There's a story about the display. I think it was in Wired
that I read it. Bill Gates was visiting Apple. He was in
a room with Jobs and a number of other people. Jobs
had a tantrum, blaming Gates for stealing Apple's ideas
in terms of GUI. Gates calmly responded that he saw it
differently: He and Jobs had a rich neighbor with a big
TV set, named Xerox. They both plotted to break in and
steal the TV. Jobs just happened to break in before
Gates got there. According to the article, the other
people in the room knew that Gates was right.


I've heard a similar story, but Jobs sued MS over stealing his UI
design. But someone pointed out that Xerox had the design before Jobs.

| These days, I couldn't live without spellcheck.

The woman I live with loves it, but mostly for entertainment.
"Look! It turned Kantef into fatten! Ha ha!" I find it irritating.
Similarly with search suggestions and auto-complete
suggestions. I don't want the software instigating actions
I didn't request. It's distracting.



--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 70.0.1
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #129  
Old December 8th 19, 05:32 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Ant[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 873
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/7/19 7:43 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote

| I'll admit, it was a single thing I saw with the iMac that sold me. The
| quality of the display. The image was astounding, far better than
| anything I'd seen with a Windows system.

Yes. The attention to detail is a delight. I'm not
wild about hiring a 12-year-old girl to design cutesy,
Looney Tunes icons, but aside from that it's almost
astonishingly tasteful.


Imo, the quality of the icon design has gone downhill over the last few
years. Not just Apple, but every where. They are no longer visually
intuitive.


Not just icons. GUI designs. Everything is flat and minimalism.
--
"He who dislikes aardvarks was an ant in his former life." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )
  #130  
Old December 8th 19, 05:51 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On 12/7/19 9:32 PM, Ant wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/7/19 7:43 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote

| I'll admit, it was a single thing I saw with the iMac that sold me. The
| quality of the display. The image was astounding, far better than
| anything I'd seen with a Windows system.

Yes. The attention to detail is a delight. I'm not
wild about hiring a 12-year-old girl to design cutesy,
Looney Tunes icons, but aside from that it's almost
astonishingly tasteful.


Imo, the quality of the icon design has gone downhill over the last few
years. Not just Apple, but every where. They are no longer visually
intuitive.


Not just icons. GUI designs. Everything is flat and minimalism.


"flat and minimalism" = bo-o-o-o-o-oring

--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 70.0.1
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #131  
Old December 8th 19, 07:42 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 17:55:42 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

I'm trying to help a friend with her Android
phone. What a POS user interface. No logic to it at all.


I have a prediction. If you spend a few uninterrupted minutes with that
Android phone, or with an iPhone, you won't come away with that kind of
impression of the UI. I believe you're letting your attitude cloud your
vision.

It's not hard to tap, double tap, long tap, swipe up/down/left/right, and
those are just about all the things you need to master.

You'll ask, "yes but how did you learn all of that", and my answer would be
that it's a touch screen. So touch it. All will be revealed.

  #132  
Old December 8th 19, 07:44 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 16:31:57 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/7/19 11:13 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 03:20:05 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/6/19 4:30 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:01:57 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/6/19 10:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:17:01 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/5/19 9:50 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:07:22 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/5/19 6:54 AM, Mayayana wrote:
So if you think MS and Adobe are going to collapse then
you'll have to start by telling millions of people who work
in offices and graphics shops what Microsoft and Adobe are.
They really don't know. Most don't even know they're using
Windows. (They do know if they're using Mac but that's only
because they paid twice what it's worth to show off the logo.)

Having the active spread across the entire widescreen monitor also dries
me up the wall.

Then why do it? I assume you're speaking of your own behavior, since
other's behavior wouldn't be up to you. If you don't like it, don't do it
that way.

I rarely do things full screen. Google Maps, or any mapping type
program, would be an exception,

Sometimes, I get close to that with a program that has various control
panels on one side or the other. Such as a styles and formatting display.

I wasn't clear, but I was referring to things like writing a document,
and that's the only thing on the screen.

As for me, almost everything gets run full screen. I find it very
distracting to have multiple windows partially overlaid atop one another,
but I wouldn't tell anyone to do it one way or another. It's an individual
decision.

Regarding multiple windows on the screen, for me it depends on the
contents of the various windows. If those windows have different tools
that come with a particular program, it doesn't bother me.

But I don't have a browser window, email window, instant messenger
window, etc. all on the same desktop. For those situations, I use
alternate/multiple desktops. Each program is assigned to run in a
specific desktop. I've not found a way to do that with W10's Task Views.

It is an individual's choice. I get frustrated with people who choose
to do it one way, without knowing what their options are.

That last part is what gets you into trouble. I don't know how you can look
at someone and determine whether they know what their options are. It seems
much more likely that they're doing something exactly how they want to do
it. If *they* speak up and express frustration, that's different, but
until/unless they do so, you have no reason to be frustrated.

You can't look at them and know whether they know their options. You
actually have to ask and/or show them the options.

Right, that was exactly my point. So I don't understand why you allow
yourself to become frustrated. That's not making sense to me.

I guess it's seeing the same ignorance over and over again, and wonder
why they seem to be incapable of moving to another step ans asking what
they can do make life easier on themselves.


I thought we just established that you can't look at someone and determine
whether they know their options, i.e., you can't determine their level of
ignorance by looking. So what if someone doesn't do something the way that
you'd like? If you get frustrated by that, and you've said it drives you up
a wall, then that's entirely on you and has nothing to do with the other
person.

Frustration is not something that someone else gives to you. It's something
that you give to yourself.

I'm reminded of a friend who used to have exactly one application open at a
time on his Windows PC. One day he was showing me some photos that he'd
just taken at the local nature/animal park. I asked him to email a few to
me. He closed the photo viewer and opened Outlook Express, where he began
composing an email to me. By then, he had forgotten which photos I wanted,
so he saved the email as a Draft and closed OE. He opened the photo viewer
and located the photos, making a note of their names and location. He
closed the photo viewer and opened OE, where he completed the email and
sent it. He finished by closing OE. And guess what? He did everything
exactly the way he wanted to do it. He wanted one program open at a time,
period. Was that frustrating for me? No, of course not. I think it would
have been frustrating for you, but it shouldn't have been.


I think you may have missed my basic point for someone like your friend.
Did your friend know he/she had other options to get things done? If
yes, OK, go ahead. If no, why didn't your friend know of the other options?


I don't think I missed your point, but I think you may have missed mine,
and I think we're talking in circles.

  #133  
Old December 8th 19, 10:30 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition

On 12/7/19 11:44 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 16:31:57 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/7/19 11:13 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 03:20:05 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/6/19 4:30 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:01:57 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/6/19 10:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:17:01 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/5/19 9:50 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:07:22 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/5/19 6:54 AM, Mayayana wrote:
So if you think MS and Adobe are going to collapse then
you'll have to start by telling millions of people who work
in offices and graphics shops what Microsoft and Adobe are.
They really don't know. Most don't even know they're using
Windows. (They do know if they're using Mac but that's only
because they paid twice what it's worth to show off the logo.)

Having the active spread across the entire widescreen monitor also dries
me up the wall.

Then why do it? I assume you're speaking of your own behavior, since
other's behavior wouldn't be up to you. If you don't like it, don't do it
that way.

I rarely do things full screen. Google Maps, or any mapping type
program, would be an exception,

Sometimes, I get close to that with a program that has various control
panels on one side or the other. Such as a styles and formatting display.

I wasn't clear, but I was referring to things like writing a document,
and that's the only thing on the screen.

As for me, almost everything gets run full screen. I find it very
distracting to have multiple windows partially overlaid atop one another,
but I wouldn't tell anyone to do it one way or another. It's an individual
decision.

Regarding multiple windows on the screen, for me it depends on the
contents of the various windows. If those windows have different tools
that come with a particular program, it doesn't bother me.

But I don't have a browser window, email window, instant messenger
window, etc. all on the same desktop. For those situations, I use
alternate/multiple desktops. Each program is assigned to run in a
specific desktop. I've not found a way to do that with W10's Task Views.

It is an individual's choice. I get frustrated with people who choose
to do it one way, without knowing what their options are.

That last part is what gets you into trouble. I don't know how you can look
at someone and determine whether they know what their options are. It seems
much more likely that they're doing something exactly how they want to do
it. If *they* speak up and express frustration, that's different, but
until/unless they do so, you have no reason to be frustrated.

You can't look at them and know whether they know their options. You
actually have to ask and/or show them the options.

Right, that was exactly my point. So I don't understand why you allow
yourself to become frustrated. That's not making sense to me.

I guess it's seeing the same ignorance over and over again, and wonder
why they seem to be incapable of moving to another step ans asking what
they can do make life easier on themselves.

I thought we just established that you can't look at someone and determine
whether they know their options, i.e., you can't determine their level of
ignorance by looking. So what if someone doesn't do something the way that
you'd like? If you get frustrated by that, and you've said it drives you up
a wall, then that's entirely on you and has nothing to do with the other
person.

Frustration is not something that someone else gives to you. It's something
that you give to yourself.

I'm reminded of a friend who used to have exactly one application open at a
time on his Windows PC. One day he was showing me some photos that he'd
just taken at the local nature/animal park. I asked him to email a few to
me. He closed the photo viewer and opened Outlook Express, where he began
composing an email to me. By then, he had forgotten which photos I wanted,
so he saved the email as a Draft and closed OE. He opened the photo viewer
and located the photos, making a note of their names and location. He
closed the photo viewer and opened OE, where he completed the email and
sent it. He finished by closing OE. And guess what? He did everything
exactly the way he wanted to do it. He wanted one program open at a time,
period. Was that frustrating for me? No, of course not. I think it would
have been frustrating for you, but it shouldn't have been.


I think you may have missed my basic point for someone like your friend.
Did your friend know he/she had other options to get things done? If
yes, OK, go ahead. If no, why didn't your friend know of the other options?


I don't think I missed your point, but I think you may have missed mine,
and I think we're talking in circles.


We could be, it happens. Should we give it up? :-)


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 70.0.1
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #134  
Old December 8th 19, 10:38 AM posted to alt.computer.workshop,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

On 12/7/19 11:42 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 17:55:42 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

I'm trying to help a friend with her Android
phone. What a POS user interface. No logic to it at all.


I have a prediction. If you spend a few uninterrupted minutes with that
Android phone, or with an iPhone, you won't come away with that kind of
impression of the UI. I believe you're letting your attitude cloud your
vision.


I've already figured some of it out, and having the Nexus experience
helped. But, if you if you think I'm frustrated, best to not talk to
the owner. LOL You might not leave unscathed. G

As for the phone physically, it does seem to be a POS. And there's a
number of negative comments on the web about this model. For instance,
if you just barely move it out of portrait orientation, and I mean
barely, it goes into landscape. And, then it takes the phone too long
to switch back, once you find that narrow range where it wants to be in
portrait.

It's not hard to tap, double tap, long tap, swipe up/down/left/right, and
those are just about all the things you need to master.

You'll ask, "yes but how did you learn all of that", and my answer would be
that it's a touch screen. So touch it. All will be revealed.



--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 70.0.1
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #135  
Old December 8th 19, 11:44 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.freeware
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default 7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition

Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/7/19 7:43 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote

| I'll admit, it was a single thing I saw with the iMac that sold me.
The
| quality of the display. The image was astounding, far better than
| anything I'd seen with a Windows system.

Yes. The attention to detail is a delight. I'm not
wild about hiring a 12-year-old girl to design cutesy,
Looney Tunes icons, but aside from that it's almost
astonishingly tasteful.


Imo, the quality of the icon design has gone downhill over the last few
years. Not just Apple, but every where. They are no longer visually
intuitive.

A few years ago I tried Suse and noticed that was
also much better looking on the same hardware as
Windows. I don't know why Windows graphics are not
better. But it does seem that with Mac you get better
display and better design. Maybe MS make a point of
making it look generic. Like a pickup truck or sedan.
The design says, "get something done".


Since the hardware was the same, isn't that an indication the answer is
in the quality of the driver's code?

The current iMac, and device screens are the retina design. I don't
know what that means at the techno level, other than it's proprietary
tech at some level.


The table half way down the page here, shows the DPI of the retina displays.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display

WinXP used ClearType for display compensation. That
uses colored feathering around text characters.

The current technique uses monochrome feathering.
Or, at least, you can check for such to see whether
they're using the older technique or the newer technique.

For text, we could try an article like this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering

A small percentage of the population, are "oversensitive" to
ClearType.

*******

And there are still OSes that go "heavy on the hinting".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSo...ot-2009-06.png

https://s14.postimg.cc/3s5kusa29/solaris_from_2007.jpg

Paul
 




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