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The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux



 
 
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  #16  
Old January 4th 20, 07:58 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
R.Wieser
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Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

Roach, William,

Linux loses again.


Oh f*ck, is this one of those "my OS is better than your OS" threads ?
Forget I said anything.

Goodbye.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Ads
  #17  
Old January 4th 20, 08:15 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Snit[_2_]
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Posts: 2,027
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On 1/4/20 11:58 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
Roach, William,

Linux loses again.


Oh f*ck, is this one of those "my OS is better than your OS" threads ?
Forget I said anything.

Goodbye.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



I like Bic pens. You like something else. YOU HEATHEN!

Yeah, I don't get it.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
  #18  
Old January 4th 20, 08:28 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
roach[_2_]
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Posts: 9
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 19:58:38 +0100, "R.Wieser"
wrote:

Roach, William,

Linux loses again.


Oh f*ck, is this one of those "my OS is better than your OS" threads ?
Forget I said anything.

Goodbye.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


Not from my perspective.
No OS is perfect so I say use what works for you.

Linux, desktop Linux, definitely sucks the big one though.
  #19  
Old January 4th 20, 08:29 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On 04/01/2020 19.44, roach wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 18:31:43 -0000 (UTC), William Unruh
wrote:

On 2020-01-04, roach wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 18:09:33 -0000 (UTC), William Unruh
wrote:

On 2020-01-04, R.Wieser wrote:
William,

That is a hardware fault, not a software problem. If the system
it dumping sufficient current through you speakers to fry them,
that has nothing to do with software.

Not quite.

If the audio output doesn't return to a zero voltage difference (when paused
or no audio being played) than a directly-coupled amplifier (no series
capacitor) will transfer that DC voltage (amplified ofcourse) to the
speakers, quite likely causing them to heat up.

And that is a hardware fault. No amplifier should deliver DC to a
speaker. It is idiotic from many points of view.

You seem to keep missing the point. Per the thread:

1. Chrome OS worked fine.
2. LinuxMint overloaded the speakers and made them smoke and smell.
3. Installing an alternative .asound file found on some obscure site
fixed the problem.


That chromeOS has a workaround to a hardware fault is fine (they could
hardly sell the system if it did not). That does not alter the fact that
feeding DC through speakers is a hardware fault. That that obscure
.asound file also has a workaround to that same fault is good. But that
does not make the problem a software problem. It means that software can
be used to mitigate a hardware problem sometimes.



This is a Linux problem.


No it is a hardware problem, which as you have discovered, there is a
Linux fix which is a workaround to that hardware problem.


And it's not the first time that Linux has been destroying hardware.

Linux's poor fan control has been overheating laptops for ages.

https://itsfoss.com/reduce-overheating-laptops-linux/


That says nothing about poor fan control. The article states that the
fan is working as hard as it can ("As the mercury rises in the summer
season, the fan speed of the computer goes nuts."), but the laptop is
still overheating. That is a hardware fault again.


You might want to read the comments where several people state they
have no problems with Windows on the same laptop.


Still a hardware problem with a software workaround.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #20  
Old January 4th 20, 08:39 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Cybe R. Wizard[_3_]
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Posts: 69
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 12:15:01 -0700
Snit wrote:

On 1/4/20 11:58 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
Roach, William,

Linux loses again.


Oh f*ck, is this one of those "my OS is better than your OS"
threads ? Forget I said anything.

Goodbye.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



I like Bic pens. You like something else. YOU HEATHEN!

Yeah, I don't get it.

I advocate, sometimes loudly, for Stihl chainsaws but will gladly use a
Husky or even a Craftsman if wood is to be cut and that's what's handy.

I do NOT advocate for an OS. Let each and all choose their own folly.

--
Cybe R. Wizard

My other computer is a HOLMES IV with the Mycroft OS
My other car is a Chandler MetalSmith Mark III


  #21  
Old January 4th 20, 08:49 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Snit[_2_]
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Posts: 2,027
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On 1/4/20 12:39 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 12:15:01 -0700
Snit wrote:

On 1/4/20 11:58 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
Roach, William,

Linux loses again.

Oh f*ck, is this one of those "my OS is better than your OS"
threads ? Forget I said anything.

Goodbye.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



I like Bic pens. You like something else. YOU HEATHEN!

Yeah, I don't get it.

I advocate, sometimes loudly, for Stihl chainsaws but will gladly use a
Husky or even a Craftsman if wood is to be cut and that's what's handy.

I do NOT advocate for an OS. Let each and all choose their own folly.


I am fine with discussions about why YOU prefer one OS over another,
especially if based on a task. I like such-and-such OS for task X, and
here is why... I can do it in such-and-such way. Hey, how would you do
that in another OS? Or even just questions to compare workflows in one
OS vs. another. But if you like how you do it and I like how I do it and
we can learn from each other then that is great. My ego is not tied to
any OS.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.
  #22  
Old January 4th 20, 08:55 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Unruh
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Posts: 173
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On 2020-01-04, R.Wieser wrote:
William,

And that is a hardware fault. No amplifier should deliver DC
to a speaker. It is idiotic from many points of view.


So your defence is that when the software makes a mistake the hardware
should fix it ? Interresting train of thought.


You seem to have trouble reading. It is a hardware fault. Sometimes
software can ammeliorate hardware faults. But a generic operating system
like linux cannot anticipate all of the ways that hardware companies can
screw up.


But nope. If the cause of the problem is having a DC voltage delivered to
the amplifier than whatever is causing that is at fault I'm afraid.
Regardless of the amplifier having some kind of protection against it or
not.

... Can still be a hardware fault though (not likely, but not a zero chance
either), just now the hardware within the chromebook itself.


Of course it is hardware within the chromebook itself. Where else would
it be?


Than again, my second explanation to the loudspeaker heating up is probably
more plausible. Subsonic sound


What is subsonic to you may be desired by someone else.


Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #23  
Old January 4th 20, 09:31 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jasen Betts
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Posts: 148
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On 2020-01-04, William Unruh wrote:
On 2020-01-04, James wrote:
Another example of the stench of Linux.

https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=289943

Fresh Mint 19.1, no audio, speakers burning hot when in unmute.
Quote

Post
by PetroL » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:49 am
Hello to you all.
I am new to linux since 20 years back, never really had the patience
until now...

I yesterday installed Mint on my chromebook (Acer CB3-532) but apparently
as many others the sound wont come to life...
After a lot of searching and tryouts I have to ask for help...

I tryed to enable the speakers in alsamixer changing from HDMI to the
internal (chtrt5650). Problem is they getting so hot I can barely touch
them, not to mention the stench... I don´t dare to change from MM to
unmute a fourth time, there must be something seriously faulty here and I
don´t know if the left speaker is burned for good by now. Both initially
gave some scraping sound when I started fiddling around but since my last
try only the right one made a sound occasionally.

My question is, this chtrt5650 which I think is the sound card for the
internal speakers, is there any drivers to download like "realtek" or
"AC97" I can try? All I get in Sound Settings is "Dummy Output"...
pavucontrol only shows 8 or 9 different HDMI options all though the
output bar is moving when Youtube is playing in the background.

Any suggestion appreciated, I really want to get this to work.
Thanks in advance.


That is a hardware fault, not a software problem. If the system it
dumping sufficient current through you speakers to fry them, that has
nothing to do with software.


I've seen some "sound cards" that can be commanded to produce DC.
that could overheat speakers.

--
Jasen.
  #24  
Old January 4th 20, 10:44 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
R.Wieser
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Posts: 1,302
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

William,

You seem to have trouble reading. It is a hardware fault.


Repeating yourself doesn't change anything I'm afraid. Its just makes you
look as someone who has nothing to underbuild his claim.

In other words, start with proving that its the hardware thats faulty. And
no, pointing at the the hardware because it doesn't have a fix-all defence
mechanism isn't going to fly I'm afraid.

But [software] cannot anticipate all of the ways that hardware
companies can screw up.


Funny that you can swap the words "software" and "hardware" there around
without the claim loosing its validity.

And lol that you have a problem with the hardware not having a fix-all
defense against loudspeakers heating up. You see, if it wouldn't get faulty
"data" that would not even happen in the first place. And guess where that
"data" comes from ...

As for "not anticipate" ? Grow up. All the software needs to do is to
return the audio output voltage to zero. Nothing more, nothing less. And
thats definitily not rocket science.

As for your claim that the other softwares all contain a work-around for the
hardware problem ? Thats a possibility. But you know what another
possibility is, and way more likely ? That those other softwares simply do
not have the bug of the first one. :-)

Kiddo, you are caught in another simple ****ing contest. This time software
against hardware. Which is as stupid as the "my OS is better than your OS"
flamewars that ever so often occur. So, goodbye again.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #25  
Old January 4th 20, 11:07 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Unruh
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Posts: 173
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On 2020-01-04, R.Wieser wrote:
William,

You seem to have trouble reading. It is a hardware fault.


Repeating yourself doesn't change anything I'm afraid. Its just makes you
look as someone who has nothing to underbuild his claim.

In other words, start with proving that its the hardware thats faulty. And
no, pointing at the the hardware because it doesn't have a fix-all defence
mechanism isn't going to fly I'm afraid.


IF as you and I both suspect, the problem is caused by DC being let
through and amplified, then this is a hardware problem. It is the
hardware that is amplifying the DC, not the software. If you would like
to donate your chromebook to me, I might be able to make measurements to
determine that this is what is happeneing.

Otherwise I do not have access to the hardwre so I can hardly prove that
it is the hardware that is at fault.

The lowest frequency that the speakers in your chromebook can handle is
something above 100 Hz. For the system to let through lower frequencies
is incompetent design. For the system to deliver and let through DC is
very incompetent design.
Since small speakers cannot deliver low frequecies (they cannot push
around enough air) the presense of low frequencies will produce huge
distortion, even if they do not burn out. The cones will bring the coil
out to the edge of the magnetic field and where the response gets
weaker, and the sounds one can hear will get badly distorted.

Now, you can tell the source not to send anything with frequencies lower
than 100 Hz to the speakers, (a software solution), or you can design
the amplifier so that it does not send low frequencies to the speaker.

But [software] cannot anticipate all of the ways that hardware
companies can screw up.


Funny that you can swap the words "software" and "hardware" there around
without the claim loosing its validity.


Agreed, but not in this case.


And lol that you have a problem with the hardware not having a fix-all
defense against loudspeakers heating up. You see, if it wouldn't get faulty
"data" that would not even happen in the first place. And guess where that
"data" comes from ...


Some people drive subwoofers from their computers. Why should the
software assume that that is not what is happening. How does the
software know that this machine was so incompetently built that if it
sends lower frequencies than 100 Hx, the speakers will overheat and
distort?



As for "not anticipate" ? Grow up. All the software needs to do is to
return the audio output voltage to zero. Nothing more, nothing less. And
thats definitily not rocket science.


How does it know what "zero" is. It simply sends digital signals to the
soundcard. Teh soundcard (hardware) turns those to signals.
To use your argument, prove to me that the software is telling the
hardware to emit a huge DC signal.


As for your claim that the other softwares all contain a work-around for the
hardware problem ? Thats a possibility. But you know what another
possibility is, and way more likely ? That those other softwares simply do
not have the bug of the first one. :-)

Kiddo, you are caught in another simple ****ing contest. This time software
against hardware. Which is as stupid as the "my OS is better than your OS"
flamewars that ever so often occur. So, goodbye again.


I thought we were trying to figure out why his speakers were getting
hot? That is what I was trying to do. If what you were trying to do is
get into a ****ing contest, then yes, goodbye. (It is like people dying
in operas-- everytime you think they are gone, they up and scream again)



Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #26  
Old January 4th 20, 11:43 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

William Unruh wrote:
On 2020-01-04, James wrote:


Any suggestion appreciated, I really want to get this to work.
Thanks in advance.


That is a hardware fault, not a software problem. If the system it
dumping sufficient current through you speakers to fry them, that has
nothing to do with software.


If you want to get it to work, your first step is:

1) Connect Line-Out of suspect machine, to Line-in
on Technician machine.
2) Set sample rate to max. (On my two computers here,
both support 192KHz, but the input analog filter that
prevents aliasing, is set to 50KHz or so in the design.)

Then, use Audacity to record this "hot speaker" situation
and discover the "energy" being sent.

Some computer audio setups, have "impedance sensing"
as well as "jack sensing". The original Analog Devices
scheme, sent a burst of 25KHz at a decent amplitude,
to allow measuring current flow and thereby , allowing
an impedance (not a resistance) measurement to be done.

RealTek did not use this idea initially, but apparently
may have acquired the right to use it recently.

Impedance sensing this way is necessary, because
computer audio is fully capacitively coupled. There are
caps all over the place. No DC is intended to be flowing
on *any* unamplified interface.

A few computers have a 2W power amp and drive unamplified
speakers. For the rest, the vast majority, the LineOut has
no power drive capabilities, and can only drive 32 ohms
(recommended) at the best of times. (It's 600 ohms rated
with the headphone amp tick box off, 32 ohms with the
headphone amp tick box on, generally no more than two
connectors with headphone amp enabled.)

If the speakers or the external amp get hot, check for *ultrasonic*
output. If a 1V signal at 25KHz is coming out of the
computer (say, because of the chip "impedance sensing"
function has gone nuts), the technician machine sampling
at 192KHz and 50KHz low pass, can capture that for you.

Power amplifiers can also oscillate on their own,
which would be a discussion for sci.electronics
or the like. Circuits can be "closed circuit stable"
or "open circuit stable", and these general classifications
help guide people in terms of "what to expect" from their
gadgets.

As an example, the ATX power supply has a control loop,
and if more than around 5000uF of bypass caps total
is used on a rail, it could affect the stability of
the control loop. It can't drive just any old load.
And that's useful information if using ATX supplies
as replacements for bench supplies (in an electronics
lab).

In any case, a little creative usage of LineIn on your
"good, working" computer, will tell you whatsup.

And as for audio amps that oscillator, just about
every audio power amp I've ever constructed has
oscillated. One (as a teenager), I took it to high
school and put it on the scope, and it was oscillating
at 500KHz. The speakers of course, cannot follow
this signal, so your eardrums don't get punished.
If the signal is ultrasonic but closer to audible,
there could be an acoustic effect from the super dome
tweeters. If you build or even assemble your own
power amp from a kit, it pays to scope
it before getting too excited about your "accomplishment" :-/
A hint of trouble, is a "hollow sound" in the
midrange frequencies. If you need extreme corrections
with your graphic equalizer to balance the sound,
that's a sign there's trouble brewing in there.

Paul
  #27  
Old January 5th 20, 01:33 AM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
AnonLinuxUser
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Posts: 145
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On 1/4/2020 9:53 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
William,

That is a hardware fault, not a software problem. If the system
it dumping sufficient current through you speakers to fry them,
that has nothing to do with software.


Not quite.

If the audio output doesn't return to a zero voltage difference (when paused
or no audio being played) than a directly-coupled amplifier (no series
capacitor) will transfer that DC voltage (amplified ofcourse) to the
speakers, quite likely causing them to heat up.


Which puts the design of the hardware at fault. The engineer is
supposed to do a sanity check on his design.

Ofcourse, the same will happen when the audio signal drops to a few hertz -
which is not unheard of, as that is often used to detect if there is
something connected to the audio output (cheaper than a switch build into
the audio jack, and will even work with a headphone extension cord).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



  #28  
Old January 5th 20, 01:35 AM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
flatfish+++[_6_]
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Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 17:33:10 -0700, AnonLinuxUser
wrote:

On 1/4/2020 9:53 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
William,

That is a hardware fault, not a software problem. If the system
it dumping sufficient current through you speakers to fry them,
that has nothing to do with software.


Not quite.

If the audio output doesn't return to a zero voltage difference (when paused
or no audio being played) than a directly-coupled amplifier (no series
capacitor) will transfer that DC voltage (amplified ofcourse) to the
speakers, quite likely causing them to heat up.


Which puts the design of the hardware at fault. The engineer is
supposed to do a sanity check on his design.


Looks like a hardware fault to me. Chrome managed to work around it
with the software but for some reason Linux did not until later on
where someone probably reported the problem and a fix for Linux was
developed.

I blame poor hardware for this one and not Linux.
  #29  
Old January 5th 20, 01:35 AM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alfonso P Cutaway
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Posts: 5
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

On Sat, 04 Jan 2020 13:19:47 -0500, roach wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jan 2020 18:09:33 -0000 (UTC), William Unruh
wrote:

On 2020-01-04, R.Wieser wrote:
William,

That is a hardware fault, not a software problem. If the system it
dumping sufficient current through you speakers to fry them,
that has nothing to do with software.

Not quite.

If the audio output doesn't return to a zero voltage difference (when
paused or no audio being played) than a directly-coupled amplifier (no
series capacitor) will transfer that DC voltage (amplified ofcourse)
to the speakers, quite likely causing them to heat up.


And that is a hardware fault. No amplifier should deliver DC to a
speaker. It is idiotic from many points of view.


You seem to keep missing the point. Per the thread:

1. Chrome OS worked fine.
2. LinuxMint overloaded the speakers and made them smoke and smell. 3.
Installing an alternative .asound file found on some obscure site fixed
the problem.

This is a Linux problem.
And it's not the first time that Linux has been destroying hardware.

Linux's poor fan control has been overheating laptops for ages.

https://itsfoss.com/reduce-overheating-laptops-linux/


On item # 2 I call BULL****!!!!!!

  #30  
Old January 6th 20, 02:05 PM posted to comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.os.linux,alt.comp.os.windows-10
chrisv
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Posts: 649
Default The Stench Of Linux - How To burn Up Your Chromebook With Linux

William Unruh wrote:

R.Wieser wrote:

If the audio output doesn't return to a zero voltage difference (when paused
or no audio being played) than a directly-coupled amplifier (no series
capacitor) will transfer that DC voltage (amplified ofcourse) to the
speakers, quite likely causing them to heat up.


And that is a hardware fault. No amplifier should deliver DC to a
speaker. It is idiotic from many points of view.


Of course, you are right. R.Wieser's statement contains a big "if".
An amplifier that needs to drive a low-impedance load at high power,
such as a loudspeaker, generally cannot be capacitively coupled to
that load. Circuits such as DC servos can be used null the output of
the amplifier.

--
'Too bad Mr "BSEE" has tried to BS us about his alleged credentials in
the past.' - lying asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly
 




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