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O.T. Bad power supply?
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender and Windows firewall. (1) TB HD Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz Ram 12.0 GB System type : 64-bit operating system I also have I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender and Windows firewall. Intel (R) Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz 4GB RAM, 750 GB HD System type : 64-bit operating system and (external hard drives) (8500) WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive (780) Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Today when powering up the computers the 780 kept trying to initiate the monitor but it kept starting/stopping and wouldn't power on. So it looks as if I may have to buy a new power supply or could it be something else? Are there any thoughts/recommendations where to buy a OEM power supply? Thoughts/Suggestions Thanks, Robert |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
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O.T. Bad power supply?
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O.T. Bad power supply?
Mark,
Today when powering up the computers the 780 kept trying to initiate the monitor but it kept starting/stopping and wouldn't power on. So it looks as if I may have to buy a new power supply or could it be something else? It could be something else, like something drawing to much power, causing a dip in voltage. And now I think of it, even a badly seated power connector could cause such a voltage drop. But it could be even simpler than that: A stuck "power switch" (just a momentary pushbutton actually) could be stuck, causing a hard power-down 5 seconds after being switched on .... And by the way, are you certain its the 'puter, and not just the monitor having problems ? Regards, Rudy Wieser |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
Mark Twain wrote:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender and Windows firewall. (1) TB HD Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz Ram 12.0 GB System type : 64-bit operating system I also have I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender and Windows firewall. Intel (R) Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz 4GB RAM, 750 GB HD System type : 64-bit operating system and (external hard drives) (8500) WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive (780) Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Today when powering up the computers the 780 kept trying to initiate the monitor but it kept starting/stopping and wouldn't power on. So it looks as if I may have to buy a new power supply or could it be something else? Are there any thoughts/recommendations where to buy a OEM power supply? Thoughts/Suggestions Thanks, Robert You can find things that are visually similar. But are they genuine ? Probably not. https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-305w-Ge...ht_1997wt_2047 The poster here makes a fuss about the combined 150W rating for the low rails. But what in the machine actually uses that much power ? Note that there are four different 780 models, like MT,DT,SFF,USFF and the smaller units use really goofy supplies. (One of the reasons I steer people away from the tiny refurbs - finding supplies is harder.) https://www.dell.com/community/Deskt...y/td-p/5119091 So the Ebay one has pretty colors, but would be group regulated and probably not 80% efficient. It will kick out a bit more heat while running. There isn't much choice in modern (enthusiast) PSUs at Newegg, in that they have those horrid all-black cabling systems, and the double forward conversion (3.3V and 5V comes from a separate DC-DC regulator board) tend to have weaker low voltage rails. You need the extra power on the low rails, when you're dealing with a few of the older AthlonXP systems. Some of those drew 65W from +5V, which is 13 amps. And a video card could be another 6 amps, bringing it up to 19 amps and close to the ~100W limit some of the double-forward-conversion supplies have. I measured a couple systems with my clamp-on ammeter, to get some ballpark numbers. And the Athlon that used +5V for CPU instead of +12V, leads to a need for the older supply designs. But the ones with the higher rating on the low rails, tend to be the older designs which are engineered to death (shave every nickel of cost off the thing). And those don't always inspire confidence when you use them. The only way I could prove what the power draw of the 780 is, would be to measure it with my clamp-on DC ammeter. Here's a couple that happen to have slightly better values on the low rails. CORSAIR TX-M Series TX650M (CP-9020132-NA) 650W $89 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139207 +3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 51A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5Vsb @ 3A \-- 150W combined --/ CORSAIR TX-M Series TX550M (CP-9020133-NA) 550W sale today only $55 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139210 +3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 43A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5Vsb @ 3A \-- 120W combined --/ There are lots of Seasonics (nice ones), where the combined is only 100W. It's a "standard" with them. And really, the question is, is 120W needed ? I don't think so, but I only work here. I usually count 50W combined as a boilerplate value for a modern PC, unless there's some reason to guess otherwise. Yes, you could add all sorts of exotic crap to the machine, until it tips over :-) I'm making assumptions here that the machine isn't tricked out, and there are no monster appliances drawing extra current. Most of the drain is the CPU +12V and video card +12V. Those Corsair supplies are semi-modular, which means the most-used cables are permanently attached, and a few optional cables are modular and unplug when not in usage. I think it has 20+4 and 4+4 ATX12V, for maximum flexibility (I've seen some newer supplies now where the 24 pin is fixed). And I think those Corsair supplies have a 140mm long chassis. Their higher power cousins are 160mm. You could look for reviews on Jonnyguru.com and see how they rate. For example, this review is from 2011, and how many supplies have the same OEM over a seven year span ? Dunno. Just the pictures, you can see this isn't the same supply as on Newegg and will be coming from a different OEM. This one rates 9/10, but the modern version might not have the same value. http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=261 This is a review for TX550M V2 from the year 2017. https://web.archive.org/web/20170623...tx550m/s02.php If you take that URL and paste it into translate.google.com you can have it translated to English. https://translate.google.com/transla...php&edit-text= "The hold-up time of the Corsair TX550M clearly cuts below the ATX standard of 16 ms at 8.8 ms. However, this is not unusual with low-priced models and no problem for stable power grids. The delay between Power-Good signal and Spanesgrenze is 2.9 ms and thus quite high and well above the required 1 ms. " And translating that into English for an end-user, if you use the TX550M V2 with a UPS, if the main power goes off and the UPS is an SPS (standby power supply that has actual switching time), the Corsair could drop the output to zero before the UPS switches to battery. The (partial) cure for that, is to use a better UPS with a "zero" switching time. And for the amount of money that costs, it's better to get a good PSU instead :-) Researching these things is exhausting work... You could spend your entire life doing this. Checking all the issues, and trying to make a good selection. ******* If we look at a "premium" unit, the price shoots through the roof. One reason I didn't show an RMX in my search results, is because the picture of the PSU label is missing. Even their spec sheet leaves a lot to be desired. I think I'm looking at the V1 TX550M here, rather than the V2 version. And some of the designs list a 10ms hold-up time, rather than 16ms. The hold up time is at a relatively heavy load. If you don't have any load on the PSU whatsoever, the hold-up time extends to around 30 seconds or so. https://www.corsair.com/corsairmedia...spec-table.pdf OK, here's the label of an RM550X. *Still* doesn't show a hold-up time, but does show 130W for the combined. https://www.ixbt.com/power/psu/photo...00/psu_022.jpg So now I can show you the price :-) This one is 160mm long, so about 0.8" longer than the two above. $99 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139144 "CORSAIR RMx Series RM550X 550W 80 PLUS GOLD " Are we having fun yet ? I hate quoting a price for a PSU, that costs half of what your entire computer purchase price was :-( But this is the nature of the business now. Outrageous pricing is the order of the day. There's at least one PSU out there, with Gallium Nitride switching transistors, which is $500. There's no such thing as too high a purchase price. And they didn't even make a lot of those units either, so they're hard to find. And I still haven't checked whether there are enough cables or whether they're long enough. HTH, Paul |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
I checked all the switches and I also thought of the monitor,
it keeps trying to start-up and the internal light goes on and off. It's like a car trying to turn over again and again so I had to unplug the power supply. I just 'assumed' it was the power supply Robert |
#7
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O.T. Bad power supply?
What's happening is that when I powered up the
780 today it made this weird noise and instead of the monitor lighting up it keep restarting or whatever it was doing. I would see the internal light flash and a noise and it's stuck in like a loop (like a car turning over with a dead battery) so I had to unplug it. I switched the 780 monitor with the 8500 but it still did the same thing. So it isn't the monitor. On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number 3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights up. It's like in a loop. I seem to remember now that we discussed this before and you recommended the Sparkle power supply: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP40S8223 Thoughts/suggestions? Robert |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
On 7/19/2018 2:54 PM, Mark Twain wrote:
What's happening is that when I powered up the 780 today it made this weird noise and instead of the monitor lighting up it keep restarting or whatever it was doing. I would see the internal light flash and a noise and it's stuck in like a loop (like a car turning over with a dead battery) so I had to unplug it. I switched the 780 monitor with the 8500 but it still did the same thing. So it isn't the monitor. On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number 3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights up. It's like in a loop. I seem to remember now that we discussed this before and you recommended the Sparkle power supply: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP40S8223 Thoughts/suggestions? Robert You could also try this site: https://www.atxpowersupplies.com/ They have a pretty good cross referance search tool; https://www.atxpowersupplies.com/pow...-reference.php HTH John -- |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
In message , Mark
Twain writes: [] On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number 3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights up. It's like in a loop. [] I have a vague memory that Dells indicate certain faults by various combinations of light flashes. Might be worth finding a table of those - would be a pity to pay for a new PSU only to find it's something else. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Less rules means fewer grammar? - Marjorie in UMRA, 2014-1-28 13:14 |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
Mark Twain wrote:
What's happening is that when I powered up the 780 today it made this weird noise and instead of the monitor lighting up it keep restarting or whatever it was doing. I would see the internal light flash and a noise and it's stuck in like a loop (like a car turning over with a dead battery) so I had to unplug it. I switched the 780 monitor with the 8500 but it still did the same thing. So it isn't the monitor. On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number 3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights up. It's like in a loop. I seem to remember now that we discussed this before and you recommended the Sparkle power supply: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP40S8223 Thoughts/suggestions? Robert Well, the prices are all out of whack. This is an older group-regulated Sparkle design I used as a replacement for my first computer. It's $87. It used to be a $50 supply. It had a fair amount of inrush current when switched on. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIAD6H5EE8267 +3.3V @ 22A, +5V @ 15A, +12V1 @ 18A, +12V2 @ 18A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5VSB @ 2.5A \-- 145W combined --/ \--- 360W combined ---/ ******* This one is $100 and the wires might be slightly longer. This one is Active PFC (i.e. nobody cares), and is also more efficient and would run cooler (slight power bill saving, less heat in room). https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139144 "CORSAIR RMx Series RM550X 550W 80 PLUS GOLD" +3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 45.8A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @ 3A \-- 130W combined --/ Strangely, the reviews on that one aren't perfect. There are people with failures in the reviews. Serious failures. ******* This next one is $80 for the next six hours ($10 below intro price) https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-...-and-Packaging https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817438095 "EVGA SuperNOVA 550 G3, 220-G3-0550-Y1, 80+ GOLD, 550W Fully Modular" +3.3V @ 22A, +5V @ 22A, +12V @ 45.8A, +5Vsb @ 3.0A, -12V @ 0.5A \-- 110W combined --/ That one only has a few shortcomings. You have to check there's room in the cutout in the back of the computer, to make room for the ECO switch. You want that switch set so the fan is always spinning (non-ECO mode). It's a 150mm long supply and modular, with stiff cables. The combined power rating is 110W. ******* There are a lot of these to review. And it's annoying to see products that when they failed, they took out hardware. Of the three above, I might go with the last one. While it's "on sale cough". Note that their mail in rebate scheme is not worth using. Paul |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mark Twain writes: [] On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number 3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights up. It's like in a loop. [] I have a vague memory that Dells indicate certain faults by various combinations of light flashes. Might be worth finding a table of those - would be a pity to pay for a new PSU only to find it's something else. There's two pages of code on page 15. https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/a...ual2_en-us.pdf It it hands off to OS, the LEDs are supposed to go off. The lighted LED pattern would remain stable, for a non-power supply failure. Paul |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
Good News!
I don't know exactly what happened but I shut the power off to listen for the beeps and when I powered it up the 780 came up normally! I've had the power supply on/off maybe 2-3 times since I had the problem but this time it worked! weird,..... So it was my connection! Jeeeeeez Anyway,.. thanks for your time and help, Robert |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
Mark Twain wrote:
Good News! I don't know exactly what happened but I shut the power off to listen for the beeps and when I powered it up the 780 came up normally! I've had the power supply on/off maybe 2-3 times since I had the problem but this time it worked! weird,..... So it was my connection! Jeeeeeez Anyway,.. thanks for your time and help, Robert You mean, perhaps, how the line cord plugs into the PSU ? Sometimes those work loose from thermal effects. That can happen to LCD monitors too. Some have a line cord that plugs in vertically, and the force of gravity helps the walkout process. Connectors will "walk out" if they don't have lock latches. This is why inside the computer, the ATX12V and main connector, have latches to keep the connectors affixed to the motherboard. My Sony Trinitron had a connector walk out and cause a failure. Examination of the design inside, showed none of the vast array of connectors had lock latches. I only had one instance of failure that way, so I guess they knew what they were doing. The original Molex four-pin, solved this problem with extremely high insertion force. Whereas when knock-off Molex connectors started appearing, they didn't have the same level of retention. And some of those worked loose. I had a Molex connector on a video card work loose, and burn a pin on the connector. Paul |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
No, I meant where it plugs into the APC surge
protector. I had plugged/unplugged it from there 2-3 times and also checked the line cord going into the PSU in case it had gotten loose. In any case, it's working again,..whew! It seems that 'if' I needed a PSU the best selection would be the EVGA from Newegg for $80.00. Since were on the subject, what would be a good PSU for the 8500 'if' I ever needed one? http://i65.tinypic.com/689ff6.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/29qi4h0.jpg Thanks, Robert |
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O.T. Bad power supply?
Mark Twain wrote:
No, I meant where it plugs into the APC surge protector. I had plugged/unplugged it from there 2-3 times and also checked the line cord going into the PSU in case it had gotten loose. In any case, it's working again,..whew! It seems that 'if' I needed a PSU the best selection would be the EVGA from Newegg for $80.00. Since were on the subject, what would be a good PSU for the 8500 'if' I ever needed one? http://i65.tinypic.com/689ff6.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/29qi4h0.jpg Thanks, Robert Your first picture. AC460AD-01 460W max +3.3V @ 17A, +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 32A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5Vsb @ 3A \-- 142W combined --/ It's the same story as the Optiplex 780. A fairly hefty low rail combined rating, made available for unknown reasons. Your processor is 77W TDP, your video card I don't think is a 200W unit (a Geforce210 maybe 31W ?). There's not going to be a huge 12V load as a result. The label on that thing smacks of over-engineering, at least for the default configuration. If you put a 200W gaming video card in the machine, then that PSU makes more sense (for the +12V current level). And your motherboard loading isn't going to get close to the 142W limit. Even a 100W combined Seasonic is likely to be sufficient. I don't see the hardware in the box to draw 25 amps from +5V. What ever you buy for the Optiplex 780, is likely to be good enough for your other machine. The only exception to the rule, might be physical dimensions (if there isn't room for it), cable length, or not enough cables to suit your 8500 internal wiring. The cabling on supplies today, doesn't make me all that happy, as I'd prefer Molex, then use SATA adapters on the end of the Molex. If I wear out the SATA power connector on the extender, I just unplug it and use a new one. And the PSU then doesn't suffer nearly as much wear and tear. ******* This is my real spare. SeaSonic S12II 620 $80 That's a 130W combined on the low rails. https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produc...82E16817151096 3.3V @ 24A, +5V @ 24A, +12V1 @ 24A, +12V2 @ 24A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @ 2.5A \-- 130W combined --/ This is what I picked up when the old P4 box wasn't working right. An EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2. I don't think the price was quite this high when I bought mine. I found the cabling to be a damn nuisance. Even though the cabling is modular, it still gets in the way. https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produc...82E16817438054 +3.3V @ 24A, +5V @ 22A, +12V @ 54.1A, +5VSB @ 3.0A, -12V @ 0.5A \-- 110W combined --/ I would think that Seasonic would match either of your machines. Paul |
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