Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

On 18 Aug 2018 06:36:04 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

With zero progress sofar! Perhaps instead of shooting the messengers
umpteen times, you could/should try to actually *help* them!

It is never nospam's purpose to ever be helpful.

It's the number one trait of the Apple Apologists, with fantastic
fabrications of imaginary functionality being second, with playing their
endless silly semantic games being third.

What generally happens is:
a. A question is asked
b. The Apple Apologists give an imaginary answer
c. Then the endlessly silly semantic games ensue

Notice that, over the decades, this *pattern* remains, where the endless
silly semantic games are *always* played by the Apple Apologists.

*It's how they respond to facts that don't fit into their imaginary belief system.*

This thread is a perfect example of how Apple Apologists can only survive
on a newsgroup which is filled with other Apple Apologists, but no normal
adults.

Why Apple Apologists can only survive on Apple-only newsgroups!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ey9kv6ysVgA

With zero progress sofar! Perhaps instead of shooting the messengers
umpteen times, you could/should try to actually *help* them!

It is never nospam's purpose to ever be helpful.

It's the number one trait of the Apple Apologists, with fantastic
fabrications of imaginary functionality being second, with playing their
endless silly semantic games being third.

What generally happens is:
a. A question is asked
b. The Apple Apologists give an imaginary answer
c. Then the endlessly silly semantic games ensue

Notice that, over the decades, this *pattern* remains, where the endless
silly semantic games are *always* played by the Apple Apologists.

*It's how they respond to facts that don't fit into their imaginary belief
system.*

This thread is a perfect example of how Apple Apologists can only survive
on a newsgroup which is filled with other Apple Apologists, but no normal
adults.

Why Apple Apologists can only survive on Apple-only newsgroups!

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ey9kv6ysVgA

Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 08:47:42 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2018-08-17 20:09, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 17:14:55 -0400, Wolf
wrote:

On 2018-08-17 16:55, Arlen Holder wrote:
On 17 Aug 2018 12:58:58 GMT, Wolf K wrote:

I'm saying that I go back to_before_ the web.
I suspect every one of us goes back to before the Internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet
Kermit and other communication protocols are roughly contemporaneous
with the WWW.
Kermit began in1981 and the web in 1991. So Kermit was 10 years
earlier. (I didn't know those dates. I had to look them both up on
Google g)

[...]
Right. It took a while for kermit to spread beyond its originating
campus. My hazy memory puts widespread use sometime in the mid-80s.



I never used it, so I don't know

One of the problems back then, was getting
Kermit onto the machine you might have wanted
to use it on. That's a reason back then, I knew
of Kermit, but copies of it weren't all over
the place. Our Unix boxes were devoid of
any creature comforts, so everything we did
was an uphill battle.

Part of the fun of computers back then, was finding
the most horrible method possible to connect the computers.
I used to exchange files between my desktop Mac
and a loaner PC, using the serial port, and
the equivalent of "cat". The trick was, to
know what character to type to represent
"End Of Text" and cause the session on the
other end, to close the file. The reason I was
doing that, is my boss just dropped the PC in
my cube with a "here's your PC..." and no networking.
So I said fine, and hooked up a serial cable
so I could point out to him later, the benefits
of contacting the IT department :-)

Paul

In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Ant wrote:

Did you ever watch http://www.bbsdocumentary.com ? It's old, but great.


Heh, I'm in that.

Ended up on disc3 bonus which no one ever watches.

Didn't get a single call from a talent agent.

Oh well. Did get me on imdb.com for being in it.

heh.

-bruce

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how
well that works out for you.

Well, BETTER than connecting an iOS device to a Windows
computer via USB.

nope. not better. it simply will not work.

Yes, it WILL work. That you don't know how, isn't anybodies problem
but yours.

nope. it won't work. usb is master/slave, not peer to peer. a standard
usb cable won't even fit, at least not usb a/b.

You DON'T say!? So what about one which is USB-A to USB-A and which
has the needed electronics? It's generally called an 'Easy Transfer
Cable' or 'Laplink USB cable'.

in other words, not a standard usb cable and one which requires
additional software, thereby violating the (artificial) 'no apps
required' restriction.

Who cares!?

everyone but you.

YOU said:

try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how
well that works out for you.

THAT was what I was commenting on, period.

yep, and you completely missed the point.

*Per definition*, the cable would be "not a standard usb cable", so
that's an irrelevant argument.

it's not irrelevant at all.

the manufacturer of the cable you propose confirms what i said (which
you snipped):

http://web.laplink.com/cables/
USB was designed as a PC-to-peripheral communication mechanism.
Because of this design, it is not possible to plug a passive cable
between the USB ports of two computers and transfer information. In
fact, if you try this with an ordinary USB cable, you¹ll short the
two power supplies together, possibly destroying one or both
machines. Laplink cables include the necessary electronics to allow
for the fastest peer-to-peer communication between the computers.

And *I* never said 'no apps required', remember. You try to play us
apart by hammering about "you", but when cornered it's suddently about
the others. Earth to nospam: Can't have your cake, ...

i didn't say you said that.

once again, the goal is to copy content between devices, in whichever
direction is needed.

it doesn't matter whether it's via usb, ethernet, wifi, bluetooth or
something else. it also doesn't matter which (if any) apps are used to
manually perform the copy, or if the copy is done automatically without
user intervention (which may or may not auto-launch one or more apps
behind the scenes).

what matters is that desired content is transferred with minimal effort
and without error so that the user can complete whatever task it is
they want to do in the most efficient manner possible.

insisting that it *must* be done in a particular way by using (or not
using) specific hardware or apps (or whatever you want to call them) is
an artificial restriction, especially when simpler and easier methods
exist.

no single method is ideal in every case. choose the best one for the
current situation, which may not be the same method next time.

BTW, in some scenarios an extra app is *not* needed.

yet another contrived scenario just to argue.

it's the exception, not the rule.

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

For example: Any part of the OS, scheduler, dispatcher, memory
manager, driver, whatever is a "piece of software you run on a
computer", but nobody in their right mind (read: with any applicable
knowledge) would call those components "apps".

nobody has.

So the next - equally senseless - dispute would probably be about
whether or not "you run" these components or not. Well, if I don't
switch on / boot up the bloddy thing, these components won't run, so
yes, I run these non-app pieces of software on a computer.

not directly, you don't, nor are they userland.

more silly and pointless arguments.

BTW, in a Windows context, Microsoft calls things like File Explorer,
"programs", and the Metro-style thingies "apps". See for example
'Uninstall or change a program' (in Control Panel).

actually, microsoft and others do call it an application as well as an
app.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...veloping-with-
windows-explorer
Windows Explorer is a powerful resource-browsing and management
application.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Explorer
File Explorer, previously known as Windows Explorer, is a file
manager application that is included with releases of the Microsoft
Windows operating system from Windows 95 onwards.

try this on your system - search for file explorer (actually, just a
few letters is sufficient) and you'll see something like the following
(possibly in a subheading 'apps'):
https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content..._597a5f1f776bc.
png
https://simplyfixit.co.uk/wp-content..._explorer_2.jp
g

also called apps are command prompt and powershell:
https://cdn.howtofixwindows.com/wp-c.../Open-Command-
Prompt-from-Start-menu-Search.jpg
https://assets.pcmag.com/media/image...he-windows-10-
start-menu.jpg?thumb=y&width=980&height=639

tl;dr - the terms are interchangeable.

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

So's "app", which as I recall was an abbreviation for "application
program",

'application program' is redundant.

Nope. There were - and still are - distinct categories of programs,
which were/are *not* in the category 'application [programs]', i.e.
utility programs, backup programs, etc., etc..

nope right back. 'application program' is redundant.

application, program, executable (and their shortened versions) are all
equivalent terms, plus a few others less commonly used.





That's why Explorer (a Windows program) isn't an app.

yes it is.

Sadly enough Windows (i.e. Microsoft), Wikipedia, etc. don't care
about your opinion.

it's not an opinion, especially since microsoft refers to explorer as
an application, which would make it a fact.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...veloping-with-
windows-explorer
Windows Explorer is a powerful resource-browsing and management
application.

https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content..._597a5f1f776bc.
png
https://simplyfixit.co.uk/wp-content..._explorer_2.jp
g

it also doesn't matter what it's called. nobody is confused whether
explorer is called an app or a program. you're arguing just to argue.

File Explorer is a part of the OS (hence it sits in C:\Windows) and
sane people make a distinction between application / application program
and the OS.

just because something is bundled with the operating system or is in a
specific folder does not change what it is.

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

This subthread is about transferring files via USB cables. Always has
been.

nope. it's about moving files from one device to another. always has
been because that's the *only* thing that matters.

Nope, 'moving' (actually *managing*) files over USB. The reason for
that scenario has been given: No network, also not a local-only one.

no network is needed, although there is almost always one available.

You don't get to define the scenario, period. Get over it.

i am not defining anything.

Yes you are. You are REdefining the USB scenario into a non-USB one.

i'm not defining or redefining anything.

i've listed a ****load of methods and the user can choose whichever one
*they* want to use, for whatever reason *they* want.

After umpteen repeats the ****load of irrelevant methods becomes a
pain.

it's not irrelevant.

what's irrelevant is your fixation with usb.

if they want to use usb, they can. if they don't, that's ok too.

knowing *all* of the available options helps someone make an informed
choice for what works best for their given scenario.

Which for 'the five of us' is USB, for the *stated* *reasons*.

you want to force people to use usb at all costs, without even knowing
what their situation even *is*.

I don't force anybody to use what they damn well please. YOU OTOH
force 'the five of us' NOT to use USB.

i'm not forcing anyone to do anything.

again, numerous ways have been listed and users can choose whichever
one works best for their needs, which may be different for different
users and at different times.

usb is not a universal answer to everything.

if the user wants to use usb, great. if not, that's ok too. they get to
decide. not you, not me, not anyone else. stop forcing *your* choice on
others.

in some cases usb is the best choice and in others it's not. it would
be foolish to require usb at all times while ignoring other options.
again, the user gets to decide, not you.

files are not going to be 'better' if they're sent over usb than wifi.
at the end of the day, they're the same files.

and as has been repeatedly said, there is no issue with using usb if
that's what the user wants to do.

Well, so far it doesn't work at all for those who need it and if it
would work, it would only work for photo/video, not files in general.

it works quite well for those who need it.

Sigh! "those who need" it are 'the five of us' (well minus me because
I no longer need/want it), and *so far* for 'the five of us' it does NOT
work.

the only person for whom it did not work is ny, who encountered an
unspecified error when transferring photos.

meanwhile, hundreds of millions of ios users have no issue at all.

nothing is perfect, so there will be the occasional problem, usually
one which is easily remedied.

nothing is perfect and there may be the occasional issue, which almost
always can be resolved.

With zero progress sofar! Perhaps instead of shooting the messengers
umpteen times, you could/should try to actually *help* them!

which is exactly what i've been doing.

i asked ny for specifics at least twice, including which ipad he was
using and what ios version was installed, as well as exactly what the
error message was.

so far, he has not provided that information, and until he does, it's
not possible for anyone to help.

i also suggested he use vnc/rdc to connect to other computers in his
local network rather than use teamviewer (or whatever service it was).

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:


1. Connect device and drag files in via iTunes

Yup. So why doesn't your fellow Apple zealot

ad hominem.

Nope, see my other response.

calling people zealots, fanbois, appleseeds, etc., is an ad hominem.

just *say* so and
get/have this over with!?

itunes was mentioned early on, however, it's not well suited for what
was described.

Severe case of sarchasm.

nope.

itunes is a good choice for certain things, less so for others and
won't work at all in some cases.

in this particular situation, itunes is not the best choice. in another
one, it might be.

again, choose the proper tool for the given task. no single solution
works in every case.

it's just another in a long list of options.

2. User a service like Dropbox, Google Drive., of iCloud Drive
3. Use AirDrop from another iOS device or a Mac
4. Email
5. Messages
6. other messaging services that work on iOS and support files (Dunno
which, I don't use other message programes, but I expect they exist).

Yeah, those all with great without a network (i.e. also no local-only
one)! NOT!

airdrop does not require a network (it's peer to peer).

barf! Re-read and try to comprehend what you just wrote.

i know what i wrote.

once again, you're arguing just to argue.

But by all means, tell us more about Airdrop between an iOS device and
a Windows device. I.e. what's needed hardware and software wise, how to
set it up, etc., etc.. I.e. facts and usable / usage information,
instead of paper tigers.

it was a list of available options, not a requirement that any of them
be used.

airdrop requires apple devices on both ends. microsoft has something
similar, called near share, which is currently (mostly) windows-only
but will support ios and android (some android functionality already
exists but it's not complete yet).

https://i-cdn.phonearena.com/images/...ad/Microsoft-t
o-add-Nearby-Share-support-to-Android-and-iOS-platforms.jpg

not having network access is exceptionally rare and you know it. both
wifi and cellular are just about everywhere.

As I've sad many times before, you *really* should get out more!

Ignoring the rest of the world outside your city-dweller bubble is
getting more laugable by the minute.

there is plenty of network access outside cities.

Yes, I live in a large(r) city too and have cullular and Wi-Fi access,

in other words, not an issue at all.

as usual, you're arguing just to argue.

but *I* - and zillions of *others* - *do* go out of the city, into the
country, into 'nature', into 'the outback', etc., where there is *no*
Wi-Fi, *no* cellular, no aything (except multi-multi dollar a MB
sattelite).

no, not zillions of others and not with any regularity either.

a small number of people might occasionally travel to where there's
limited or no internet access (not the same as no network) but it's not
common and only briefly. if they do, file transfers are likely the last
thing on their mind.

you're also neglecting that they would need to bring their laptop or
desktop computer to the outback, along with a source of power for
everything (or just to recharge the various batteries) plus usb cables,
just so they can copy a file while in the outback.

what actually happens is they transfer everything when they return.

it's an edge case and you know it. you're as usual, arguing just to
argue.

and should someone travel to the outback, any transfers that require
the internet will be automatically queued until the user returns to an
area with wifi or cellular connectivity, at which point those transfers
will complete without any user intervention (or not, if the user
chooses to delay it).

in other words, *during* the journey home, certainly by the time they
get home, their files have already been synced, emails sent, etc.,
without needing to do anything extra.

In article , Wolf K
wrote:


No, I just want to remind you that from my POV, the only reason to
connect to an iPad is its storage.

Then you made a very poor buying decision., You can get 512GB of storage
fort a lot cheaper than the cheapest iPad.

I don't own an iPad. Some of my friends'n'relations do, and there ar a
lot of iPhones around. It would be handy, once in a long while, to
access their files.

that's very easy, assuming they grant permission for you to do that and
share the files *they* choose to share with you.

otherwise, you have absolutely no business accessing anything on their
devices without explicit permission, which is one reason why you can't
simply connect an ios device and see it as 'a storage device' and then
go poking around.

On 18 Aug 2018 13:21:36 GMT, nospam wrote:

again, choose the proper tool for the given task. no single solution
works in every case.

When you're sitting in front of your desktop with a usb cable and an
Android phone in your hand (as defined in the OP of this thread) ... tell
me when this 'single solution' won't work?

What does't USB with Android do with respect to read/write access to the
entire visible file system on Android?
http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2102080android_trash01.jpg

NOTE: It's only on iOS that you have to "just give up"; but not on Android.

On 18 Aug 2018 13:21:37 GMT, nospam wrote:

that's very easy, assuming they grant permission for you to do that and
share the files *they* choose to share with you.

otherwise, you have absolutely no business accessing anything on their
devices without explicit permission, which is one reason why you can't
simply connect an ios device and see it as 'a storage device' and then
go poking around.

Hi Wolf,
You know we have had our issues - but I take each post in the spirit it was
written in, where you'll notice nospam is yet again brazenly fabricating
imaginary functionality that doesn't actually exist.

I have iOS devices and Android and Windows and Linux devices where none of
them have the iTunes abomination.

What nospam is ignoring is that you can't access almost *all* your files on
an iOS device without installing hundreds of megabytes of ancillary
software on Windows, generally the iTunes abomination - but copycat
programs should suffice.

Luckily, if you dual boot Linux, you can access read and write a lot more -
but even then, most of the iOS files are locked up unless you add hundreds
of megabytes of either the iTunes abomination or some other similar hack.

Hence, since this thread is about native read/write USB access to all your
files, nospam is yet again simply fabricating imaginary functionality, as
he always does.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Bruce Esquibel wrote:
In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Ant wrote:

Did you ever watch http://www.bbsdocumentary.com ? It's old, but great.

Heh, I'm in that.

Oh! Ha.


Ended up on disc3 bonus which no one ever watches.

Hey! I watched ALL!


Didn't get a single call from a talent agent.

Oh well. Did get me on imdb.com for being in it.




heh.

Ha. I had to look up your face and then remember that interview. I
did find many shots of your scene and other details in
http://www.bbsdocumentary.com/photos...pco/index.html.

It would had been rad if there was a follow-up of everyone. Let's start
with you!
--
Quote of the Week: "Where there is sugar, there are bound to be ants." --Malay Proverb
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
( )

In message Frank Slootweg wrote:
Lewis wrote:
In message Wolf K wrote:
In short, I see no reason why I should have to use any of those methods
if I don't want to.

If you want to get your files onto an iOS device, you do. If being able
to use a USB cable and access the files system of a phone directly is a
critical feature for you, then you need to by a malware magnet running
the insecure-by-design Android operating system.

So we have one Apple 'fan' (Lewis) contradicting another one (nospam),
never mind the fact that he feels the need to chlidishly belittle the
platform which *can* do what is asked for.

There is no contradiction, only your lack of comprehension.

--
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill

In message Frank Slootweg wrote:
Lewis wrote:
In message Frank Slootweg wrote:
[...]
Yeah, those all with great without a network (i.e. also no local-only
one)! NOT!

AirDrop works perfectly without a network. It is how I transferred files
with people on a zodiac boat a few miles off the coast of Alaska.

7. Use a Synology with DS File

Checking... Nah, don't have one in my car, sorry!

You are transferring files in your car? Then use AirDrop. Duh.,

So tell us about AirDrop between an iOS device and a Windows computer!

There was no windows computer on the zodiac boats.

I've had a quick look at Wikipedia's AirDrop page, but that doesn't
says anything about Windows. Also the AirDrop on iOS page only mentions
"other Apple devices".

I don't give a **** about Windows. I only use it when I am being paid
(very well) to do so.

--
If lawyers are disbarred and clergymen defrocked, doesn't it follow that
electricians can be delighted, musicians denoted?