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#76
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition
On 12/6/19 10:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:17:01 -0700, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/5/19 9:50 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:07:22 -0700, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/5/19 6:54 AM, Mayayana wrote: So if you think MS and Adobe are going to collapse then you'll have to start by telling millions of people who work in offices and graphics shops what Microsoft and Adobe are. They really don't know. Most don't even know they're using Windows. (They do know if they're using Mac but that's only because they paid twice what it's worth to show off the logo.) Having the active spread across the entire widescreen monitor also dries me up the wall. Then why do it? I assume you're speaking of your own behavior, since other's behavior wouldn't be up to you. If you don't like it, don't do it that way. I rarely do things full screen. Google Maps, or any mapping type program, would be an exception, Sometimes, I get close to that with a program that has various control panels on one side or the other. Such as a styles and formatting display. I wasn't clear, but I was referring to things like writing a document, and that's the only thing on the screen. As for me, almost everything gets run full screen. I find it very distracting to have multiple windows partially overlaid atop one another, but I wouldn't tell anyone to do it one way or another. It's an individual decision. Regarding multiple windows on the screen, for me it depends on the contents of the various windows. If those windows have different tools that come with a particular program, it doesn't bother me. But I don't have a browser window, email window, instant messenger window, etc. all on the same desktop. For those situations, I use alternate/multiple desktops. Each program is assigned to run in a specific desktop. I've not found a way to do that with W10's Task Views. It is an individual's choice. I get frustrated with people who choose to do it one way, without knowing what their options are. That last part is what gets you into trouble. I don't know how you can look at someone and determine whether they know what their options are. It seems much more likely that they're doing something exactly how they want to do it. If *they* speak up and express frustration, that's different, but until/unless they do so, you have no reason to be frustrated. You can't look at them and know whether they know their options. You actually have to ask and/or show them the options. If the individual doesn't know what their options are, you can't assume they are using what they want. If an individual only knows one options, that's the one they are going to use. :-) Once you know they know their options, and they choose to continue with the way they are doing it, perfectly fine with me. :-) Besides, your 'multiple desktops' approach isn't better than running an application full screen. Those are just two different approaches that get you the same result - an application with fewer distractions. I disagree, with all due respect. I'm still not using full screen windows the vast majority of time. I just have less that full screen windows on the different desktops. -- Ken MacOS 10.14.6 Firefox 70.0.1 Thunderbird 60.9 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
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#77
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
In article , Ken Springer
wrote: Frustrating, isn't it?* These things are what I call the basics, and you found in the manuals that used to come with the systems. As I'm sure you already know, Ken, Apple does still provide LOTS of helpful information:- https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/catalina/ https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/catalina/features/ True. And Apple even has a basic manual right on the hard drive. Don't see that from windows. Those links are sales pitches, telling you *what* you can do, not *how* to do it. It's the how that I am talking about. there are other links that explain how: https://support.apple.com/manuals It should be obvious that information found online is useless, when the user does not know how to go online. it should be obvious that isn't actually a problem. it's not 1985 anymore. just about everyone already *is* online, has been for years and knows how to search for stuff. phones, tablets and computers will normally automatically connect to wifi without the user needing to do anything, unless disabled. not only that, but the only way to get the software is online, so if someone can figure out how to *get* the various apps, they can figure out how to also find help, assuming it's even needed, which it probably isn't. |
#78
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition
On 12/6/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/6/19 10:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote: Besides, your 'multiple desktops' approach isn't better than running an application full screen. Those are just two different approaches that get you the same result - an application with fewer distractions. I disagree, with all due respect. I'm still not using full screen windows the vast majority of time. I just have less that full screen windows on the different desktops. I agree with you. I also never run anything full-screen. I have two 23" monitors. I always have at least three programs open on each screen (the same three by default, but sometimes more than three). Each window is large and takes up a good part of the screen, but the ones that are not in the foreground have a corner visible, and that makes it very easy to switch to it quickly. -- Ken |
#79
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
On 12/6/19 11:08 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Springer wrote: Frustrating, isn't it?Â* These things are what I call the basics, and you found in the manuals that used to come with the systems. As I'm sure you already know, Ken, Apple does still provide LOTS of helpful information:- https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/catalina/ https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/catalina/features/ True. And Apple even has a basic manual right on the hard drive. Don't see that from windows. Those links are sales pitches, telling you *what* you can do, not *how* to do it. It's the how that I am talking about. there are other links that explain how: https://support.apple.com/manuals It should be obvious that information found online is useless, when the user does not know how to go online. it should be obvious that isn't actually a problem. it's not 1985 anymore. just about everyone already *is* online, has been for years and knows how to search for stuff. It's also not 2185 where everyone has in implant, and is genetically modified to know this at birth. Something you are unable to acknowledge. phones, tablets and computers will normally automatically connect to wifi without the user needing to do anything, unless disabled. not only that, but the only way to get the software is online, so if someone can figure out how to *get* the various apps, they can figure out how to also find help, assuming it's even needed, which it probably isn't. -- Ken MacOS 10.14.6 Firefox 70.0.1 Thunderbird 60.9 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#80
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
In article , Ken Springer
wrote: It should be obvious that information found online is useless, when the user does not know how to go online. it should be obvious that isn't actually a problem. it's not 1985 anymore. just about everyone already *is* online, has been for years and knows how to search for stuff. It's also not 2185 where everyone has in implant, and is genetically modified to know this at birth. Something you are unable to acknowledge. strawman. the reality is that being online is *not* an obstacle. you're also ignoring that software distribution is almost entirely online, so if they can manage to get various apps, they can get help for it as well, should it even be needed, which is not a given. |
#81
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
On 12/6/19 11:45 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ken Springer wrote: It should be obvious that information found online is useless, when the user does not know how to go online. it should be obvious that isn't actually a problem. it's not 1985 anymore. just about everyone already *is* online, has been for years and knows how to search for stuff. It's also not 2185 where everyone has in implant, and is genetically modified to know this at birth. Something you are unable to acknowledge. strawman. the reality is that being online is *not* an obstacle. The reality is, not everyone knows how to do this. you're also ignoring that software distribution is almost entirely online, so if they can manage to get various apps, they can get help for it as well, should it even be needed, which is not a given. -- Ken MacOS 10.14.6 Firefox 70.0.1 Thunderbird 60.9 "My brain is like lightning, a quick flash and it's gone!" |
#82
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
In article , Ken Springer
wrote: It should be obvious that information found online is useless, when the user does not know how to go online. it should be obvious that isn't actually a problem. it's not 1985 anymore. just about everyone already *is* online, has been for years and knows how to search for stuff. It's also not 2185 where everyone has in implant, and is genetically modified to know this at birth. Something you are unable to acknowledge. strawman. the reality is that being online is *not* an obstacle. The reality is, not everyone knows how to do this. nobody said 'everyone'. the number who do not and have nobody to help them get online is a tiny, tiny fraction (as in almost zero), nowhere near enough to justify a company publishing written manuals that everyone else will never look at, never mind read, and which would also need to be ordered online. you're also ignoring that software distribution is almost entirely online, so if they can manage to get various apps, they can get help for it as well, should it even be needed, which is not a given. this. if someone wants something printed for whatever reason, download the relevant pdfs and print them, either in its entirety or specific pages. |
#83
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition
On 12/6/19 1:18 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On 12/6/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/6/19 10:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote: Besides, your 'multiple desktops' approach isn't better than running an application full screen. Those are just two different approaches that get you the same result - an application with fewer distractions. I disagree, with all due respect.Â* I'm still not using full screen windows the vast majority of time.Â* I just have less that full screen windows on the different desktops. I agree with you. I also never run anything full-screen. I have two 23" monitors. I always have at least three programs open on each screen (the same three by default, but sometimes more than three). Each window is large and takes up a good part of the screen, but the ones that are not in the foreground have a corner visible, and that makes it very easy to switch to it quickly. Isn't that the reason for the task bar?? (no need to reply). I do the same thing but I'm on a laptop and now and then one program I like full screen so I so use the icons on the taskbar. |
#84
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
Mayayana wrote:
"Chris" wrote | None of the applications listed above can deal with Microsoft VBA so I | have no choice. | | Oh the beauty of lock-in. To be fair, I wouldn't call that lock-in. They promote lock-in with their proprietary format, their incompatibility between versions, and their aggressive pushing of MSO to college students. Those factors have made MSO one of Microsoft's very few successes. They're successful across the board. Azure is their biggest growth area over the last few years. Essentially they're in the business of monopoly, not software or services. But VBA is a brilliant addition, and no one has to use it. The people who do are generally people who do much of their job with MSO. |
#85
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote Are you having trouble with your newsreader? You just made 3 responses to what I wrote and I can't decipher any connection between my words and yours. In the header, what is the MID value on the three messages ? And how far apart are the time stamps ? There is one newsreader that will send three times, with a 30 second delay between tries and a different MID on each. And yet the body text is the same. Even providing the MIDs is good enough to use to check with Howard. Paul |
#86
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
Mayayana wrote:
It's exactly the same thing people are talking about with Powerpoint. People use it because it's what they know, and often it's all they know. They don't realize that some others use their computer for something other than Word and Powerpoint. If they distribute class notes, that could be in the form of plain text, for adaptability and editability. Why don't they? Because they don't know what they're doing and PPT looks more official. And why PDF? snip PDF serves as a filter. If .pptx files were distributed, they have "too much info", including the authors private notes. When you print or export to PDF, there is a tacit assumption not all of the original document content will be in there. The document cannot be "reproduced exactly" with just the PDF in hand. Yet it does contain images of what was shown on the overhead projector while the individual was speaking. Normal practice is to distribute paper copies, and then people can annotate the paper as they see fit. While there are plenty of ways to annotate documents on a computer, you don't want the distraction in a computer setting, of the user "running his computer center" while listening to a lecture or speech out of half-an-ear. Being able to use a low tech pencil for the job, gives a higher degree of attention to the speaker. If you drop your PDF into LO Draw, you might see text strings in there. There are also things like pstotext (more than one version, one does a pretty good job on text which is purely horizontal or vertical). Nothing handles spline or angular text all that well. We could be using OCR for this, except for the artificial restrictions those tools apply to source files ("can't use this, can't use that, resolution provided is over 200dpi...). Paul |
#87
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition
On 12/6/2019 1:39 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 12/6/19 1:18 PM, Ken Blake wrote: On 12/6/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/6/19 10:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote: Besides, your 'multiple desktops' approach isn't better than running an application full screen. Those are just two different approaches that get you the same result - an application with fewer distractions. I disagree, with all due respect.Â* I'm still not using full screen windows the vast majority of time.Â* I just have less that full screen windows on the different desktops. I agree with you. I also never run anything full-screen. I have two 23" monitors. I always have at least three programs open on each screen (the same three by default, but sometimes more than three). Each window is large and takes up a good part of the screen, but the ones that are not in the foreground have a corner visible, and that makes it very easy to switch to it quickly. Isn't that the reason for the task bar?? (no need to reply). Yes. But the exposed corner is much closer to wherever my mouse is at the moment, and as far as I'm concerned, it's therefore much faster to do it my way. I also have many more icons on the task bar that I have exposed corners, and if I were to use the task bar, it would take some time to find what I want. Are the differences I'm talking about enormous? No, of course not. But to me they are significant. I'm sure there are others who wouldn't find it significant, so they should continue to do it whatever way they like best. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do it my way. I do the same thing but I'm on a laptop and now and then one program I like full screen so I so use the icons on the taskbar. -- Ken |
#88
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:01:57 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote: On 12/6/19 10:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote: On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:17:01 -0700, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/5/19 9:50 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:07:22 -0700, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/5/19 6:54 AM, Mayayana wrote: So if you think MS and Adobe are going to collapse then you'll have to start by telling millions of people who work in offices and graphics shops what Microsoft and Adobe are. They really don't know. Most don't even know they're using Windows. (They do know if they're using Mac but that's only because they paid twice what it's worth to show off the logo.) Having the active spread across the entire widescreen monitor also dries me up the wall. Then why do it? I assume you're speaking of your own behavior, since other's behavior wouldn't be up to you. If you don't like it, don't do it that way. I rarely do things full screen. Google Maps, or any mapping type program, would be an exception, Sometimes, I get close to that with a program that has various control panels on one side or the other. Such as a styles and formatting display. I wasn't clear, but I was referring to things like writing a document, and that's the only thing on the screen. As for me, almost everything gets run full screen. I find it very distracting to have multiple windows partially overlaid atop one another, but I wouldn't tell anyone to do it one way or another. It's an individual decision. Regarding multiple windows on the screen, for me it depends on the contents of the various windows. If those windows have different tools that come with a particular program, it doesn't bother me. But I don't have a browser window, email window, instant messenger window, etc. all on the same desktop. For those situations, I use alternate/multiple desktops. Each program is assigned to run in a specific desktop. I've not found a way to do that with W10's Task Views. It is an individual's choice. I get frustrated with people who choose to do it one way, without knowing what their options are. That last part is what gets you into trouble. I don't know how you can look at someone and determine whether they know what their options are. It seems much more likely that they're doing something exactly how they want to do it. If *they* speak up and express frustration, that's different, but until/unless they do so, you have no reason to be frustrated. You can't look at them and know whether they know their options. You actually have to ask and/or show them the options. Right, that was exactly my point. So I don't understand why you allow yourself to become frustrated. That's not making sense to me. If the individual doesn't know what their options are, you can't assume they are using what they want. If an individual only knows one options, that's the one they are going to use. :-) Once you know they know their options, and they choose to continue with the way they are doing it, perfectly fine with me. :-) Besides, your 'multiple desktops' approach isn't better than running an application full screen. Those are just two different approaches that get you the same result - an application with fewer distractions. I disagree, with all due respect. I'm still not using full screen windows the vast majority of time. I just have less that full screen windows on the different desktops. I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. What I said is accurate. |
#89
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
"Ken Springer" wrote \
| Are you having trouble with your newsreader? You | just made 3 responses to what I wrote and I can't | decipher any connection between my words and yours. | | Well... That's interesting... | | No problems that I know of. And I didn't do anything different at this end. | | I've no clue what happened. | Woops. Everyone seems to think I meant that I saw 3 posts. I saw 3 separate responses in one post. But none seemed to connect to what I'd written, so I wondered if there was a mixup. |
#90
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7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite - 2019 Edition
"Chris" wrote
| They're successful across the board. Azure is their biggest growth area | over the last few years. | Yes, Azure has been a success. But for many years only Windows and MSO made money. Everything else lost money. I think XBox may be in the black now. I haven't checked recently. |
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