WINDOWS XP HOME EDITION : UPGRADE vs FULL INSTALL VERSION

In ,
Donald L McDaniel respectfully replied ;-)
Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
JACOBS,JAKE typed:

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A FULL INSTALL VERSION & AN
UPGRADE
VERSION? MY COMPUTER CURRENTLY HAS WINDOWS ME.
I THOUGHT I PURCHASED A FULL INSTALL VERSION BUT IT
IS THE
UPGRADE VERSION OF WINDOWS XP HOME.
I WANTED TO DO A FULL INSTALLATION.

CAN I STILL DO A FULL INSTALL. WITH THE UPGRADE VERSION OF
WINDOWS XP
HOME EDITION ?


Please don't yell at us. We can hear you if you type normally, in
mixed case.

The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD, see
below), not to have it installed.

This is patently untrue.

No it wasn't, you are not applying Ken's entire reply as a whole, you are
nitpicking it. He is saying you have to own a qualifying Windows or have it
installed on the computer [I.a. restored from restore media].
BTW, 95 will only qualify for a clean install.
--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/ou...snewreader.htm




If you have a previous version of Windows
installed on your HD, and prepare your disk for a clean installation
of XP by booting from the XP CD, and partition and format it from
within Setup, the Setup program will NEVER ask for qualifying media. I too
used to think that inserting physical media as proof of
qualifying media was necessary (the only time I remember doing this,
by the way, was when I purchased the Retail Upgrade version of
Windows ME, and used fdisk/format to prepare my HD prior to using the
ME Upgrade CD. The setup program of Windows MD DID ask me for
qualifying media). Then I purchased an XP Retail Upgrade CD and did
a clean install of XP with an existing installation of Windows on my
HD. I was truly surprised when I was NEVER asked to insert
qualifying media. This is true for the XP Professional Retail
Upgrade CD. It may or may not be true for the XP Home Edition Retail
Upgrade CD.
When setup doesn't find a
previous qualifying version installed,

The above will only be true IF you prepare your HD for installation
by using third-party or Microsoft disk preparation software(such as
fdisk/format) to remove the existing installation of Windows prior to
booting with the XP install CD. If you use the XP install CD to boot
your computer, and leave an existing installation of Windows on your
HD, the XP Setup program will find the existing installation and take
it as proof of qualifying media with no questions asked or input
required, including install media from a previous version of Windows.

it will prompt you to
insert its CD as proof of ownership. Just insert the previous
version's CD, and follow the prompts. Everything proceeds quite
normally and quite legitimately.

You can also do a clean installation if you have an OEM restore
CD of a previous qualifying version. It's more complicated, but
it *can* be done. First restore from the Restore CD. Then run the
XP upgrade CD from within that restored system, and change from
Upgrade to New Install. When it asks where, press Esc to delete
the partition and start over.

The one time I attempted to do this, I was trying to install Windows
2000 cleanly using the Win2k Retail Upgrade CD. I started the Win2k
Setup program from within Windows ME. During this I attempted to
delete all partitions. The setup program would not allow me to
delete the boot partition, as you seem to claim the Windows XP Setup
program will allow. Of course, this may have been changed in the XP
Setup program, and it WILL allow you to delete the boot partition. Or
perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ken Blake wrote:

The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore
CD,
see
below), not to have it installed.

This is patently untrue.


Wrong. It is absolutely true.


If you have a previous version of Windows
installed on your HD, and prepare your disk for a clean
installation
of XP by booting from the XP CD, and partition and format it
from
within Setup, the Setup program will NEVER ask for qualifying
media.


I didn't say otherwise. You are talking about the situation
where
a previous version *is* installed. I am talking about doing a
clean installation of Windows XP with the Upgrade version when
no
previous version is installed.

Mr. Blake, how can your statement


Please, no formality is required, even if we disagree (but I
don't think we really do--see below). Just "Ken" is fine.


"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

be absolutely true? If this were so, my experience would not
be
true. I know what I experienced.


And I believe you.


All that IS required is to have a
licensed version of Windows EITHER previously installed, OR on
installation media.


Yes, I agree. I said the same thing. You need to own it, but you
don't need to have it installed (that means it may or may not be
installed).

I think you've just misunderstood what I said.

Ok, let us theorize for a minute:

Let us assume that a user does own a previous copy of Windows, but it is on
his hard drive, not a CD (which this theoretical user thoughtlessly threw
out). Will he be entitled to use the XP Upgrade kit to install cleanly? If
this is so (and I believe our EULA entitles us to use the XP Upgrade kit to
install cleanly even if we have NO copy of Windows on a CD anymore), then
your statement

"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

Note that you state here "own a previous qualifying versions installation
CD...".
This is your statement, not mine.
I am plainly stating that this statement is NOT completely true.

I have stated something entirely different (note that the following is a
paraphrase of my thesis)
"the requirement to use the XP Upgrade kit is to own a previous installation
of Windows, WHETHER it is on a CD, OR on a hard drive."

Note that there are TWO ways to own a copy of Windows: EITHER by possessing
a CD or other distribution media, such as floppies, OR by possessing an
installation residing on one of your hard drives. NOT one(possessing the
distribution media of a previous version of Windows), as you seem to imply.

Since the way I have shown to use the XP Retail Upgrade kit to cleanly
install XP on a hard drive works perfectly well, I say that Microsoft has
put its imprimature on using current installations of Windows as proof of
qualifying media.

By the OP's own words, he currently possesses an installation of ME residing
on his HD. I say that this is totally adequate for using the XP Retail
Upgrade kit to install XP on his HD cleanly. So giving him advice that he
must have a physical CD to use the XP Retail Upgrad kit to install XP
cleanly is misleading, and may cause him to go out and purchase an
unnecessary previous install cd for Windows ME or other 9x product if he can
afford it, or may cause him to just decide not to install XP, if he no
longer possesses distribution media for a previous version of Windows, or
cannot afford it.

However, I am a packrat, and have every copy of Windows I have bought since
Windows 95. I have no need to be a casual copier of software and other
licensed media. Maybe he is also, and has copies of Win 3.xx and DOS 6.22
down to DOS 1.0 to boot (My DOS distributions went the way of the wind after
I installed Windows 98), along with the first copies of Compute magazine.

Neither of us know whether the OP is a licensed user of Windows ME. We must
assume that he is, since the US Constitution tells us that we are innocent
until proven guilty.

We are left with the following:
If we possess, either on original distribution media, or residing on a hard
drive on which we intend to install Windows XP, a copy of Windows 98,
Windows 98SE, ME, Windows NT 4.1 or above, we are entitled to use the
Windows XP Retail Upgrade installation kit to install one copy of Windows XP
on a hard drive partition of our choice, and to use the kit to make an
archival copy of the distribution media, or make an image of the partition
containing Windows XP for archival purposes.

I believe that the above is a reasonable expectation of user rights for an
owner of a Microsoft XP operating system.

Wow! got lost in the clouds somehow...

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================

In ,
Donald L McDaniel respectfully replied ;-)
Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ken Blake wrote:

The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore
CD,
see
below), not to have it installed.

This is patently untrue.


Wrong. It is absolutely true.


If you have a previous version of Windows
installed on your HD, and prepare your disk for a clean
installation
of XP by booting from the XP CD, and partition and format it
from
within Setup, the Setup program will NEVER ask for qualifying
media.


I didn't say otherwise. You are talking about the situation
where
a previous version *is* installed. I am talking about doing a
clean installation of Windows XP with the Upgrade version when
no
previous version is installed.

Mr. Blake, how can your statement


Please, no formality is required, even if we disagree (but I
don't think we really do--see below). Just "Ken" is fine.


"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

be absolutely true? If this were so, my experience would not
be
true. I know what I experienced.


And I believe you.


All that IS required is to have a
licensed version of Windows EITHER previously installed, OR on
installation media.


Yes, I agree. I said the same thing. You need to own it, but you
don't need to have it installed (that means it may or may not be
installed).

I think you've just misunderstood what I said.

Ok, let us theorize for a minute:

Let us assume that a user does own a previous copy of Windows, but it
is on his hard drive, not a CD (which this theoretical user
thoughtlessly threw out). Will he be entitled to use the XP Upgrade
kit to install cleanly? If this is so (and I believe our EULA
entitles us to use the XP Upgrade kit to install cleanly even if we
have NO copy of Windows on a CD anymore), then your statement

"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

Note that you state here "own a previous qualifying versions
installation CD...".
This is your statement, not mine.
I am plainly stating that this statement is NOT completely true.

I have stated something entirely different (note that the following
is a paraphrase of my thesis)
"the requirement to use the XP Upgrade kit is to own a previous
installation of Windows, WHETHER it is on a CD, OR on a hard drive."

Note that there are TWO ways to own a copy of Windows: EITHER by
possessing a CD or other distribution media, such as floppies, OR by
possessing an installation residing on one of your hard drives. NOT
one(possessing the distribution media of a previous version of
Windows), as you seem to imply.
Since the way I have shown to use the XP Retail Upgrade kit to cleanly
install XP on a hard drive works perfectly well, I say that Microsoft
has put its imprimature on using current installations of Windows as
proof of qualifying media.

By the OP's own words, he currently possesses an installation of ME
residing on his HD. I say that this is totally adequate for using
the XP Retail Upgrade kit to install XP on his HD cleanly. So giving
him advice that he must have a physical CD to use the XP Retail
Upgrad kit to install XP cleanly is misleading, and may cause him to
go out and purchase an unnecessary previous install cd for Windows ME
or other 9x product if he can afford it, or may cause him to just
decide not to install XP, if he no longer possesses distribution
media for a previous version of Windows, or cannot afford it.

However, I am a packrat, and have every copy of Windows I have bought
since Windows 95. I have no need to be a casual copier of software
and other licensed media. Maybe he is also, and has copies of Win
3.xx and DOS 6.22 down to DOS 1.0 to boot (My DOS distributions went
the way of the wind after I installed Windows 98), along with the
first copies of Compute magazine.
Neither of us know whether the OP is a licensed user of Windows ME. We
must assume that he is, since the US Constitution tells us that we
are innocent until proven guilty.

We are left with the following:
If we possess, either on original distribution media, or residing on
a hard drive on which we intend to install Windows XP, a copy of
Windows 98, Windows 98SE, ME, Windows NT 4.1 or above, we are
entitled to use the Windows XP Retail Upgrade installation kit to
install one copy of Windows XP on a hard drive partition of our
choice, and to use the kit to make an archival copy of the
distribution media, or make an image of the partition containing
Windows XP for archival purposes.
I believe that the above is a reasonable expectation of user rights
for an owner of a Microsoft XP operating system.

Wow! got lost in the clouds somehow...

The flaw in your theory is what does the user do that does not have restore
disks and they only have a qualifying windows installed or a restore
partition and the hard drive crashes or is formatted? What do they do with
the upgrade version of XP?
They would need qualifying media or a full version.
This is my reason to hesitate recommending the upgrade version when
qualifying media is not available or restore disks.
No one is disputing you, just adding more for thought.

--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/ou...snewreader.htm

Michael Stevens wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel respectfully replied ;-)
Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ken Blake wrote:

The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore
CD,
see
below), not to have it installed.

This is patently untrue.


Wrong. It is absolutely true.


If you have a previous version of Windows
installed on your HD, and prepare your disk for a clean
installation
of XP by booting from the XP CD, and partition and format it
from
within Setup, the Setup program will NEVER ask for qualifying
media.


I didn't say otherwise. You are talking about the situation
where
a previous version *is* installed. I am talking about doing a
clean installation of Windows XP with the Upgrade version when
no
previous version is installed.

Mr. Blake, how can your statement


Please, no formality is required, even if we disagree (but I
don't think we really do--see below). Just "Ken" is fine.


"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

be absolutely true? If this were so, my experience would not
be
true. I know what I experienced.


And I believe you.


All that IS required is to have a
licensed version of Windows EITHER previously installed, OR on
installation media.


Yes, I agree. I said the same thing. You need to own it, but you
don't need to have it installed (that means it may or may not be
installed).

I think you've just misunderstood what I said.

Ok, let us theorize for a minute:

Let us assume that a user does own a previous copy of Windows, but it
is on his hard drive, not a CD (which this theoretical user
thoughtlessly threw out). Will he be entitled to use the XP Upgrade
kit to install cleanly? If this is so (and I believe our EULA
entitles us to use the XP Upgrade kit to install cleanly even if we
have NO copy of Windows on a CD anymore), then your statement

"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

Note that you state here "own a previous qualifying versions
installation CD...".
This is your statement, not mine.
I am plainly stating that this statement is NOT completely true.

I have stated something entirely different (note that the following
is a paraphrase of my thesis)
"the requirement to use the XP Upgrade kit is to own a previous
installation of Windows, WHETHER it is on a CD, OR on a hard drive."

Note that there are TWO ways to own a copy of Windows: EITHER by
possessing a CD or other distribution media, such as floppies, OR by
possessing an installation residing on one of your hard drives. NOT
one(possessing the distribution media of a previous version of
Windows), as you seem to imply.
Since the way I have shown to use the XP Retail Upgrade kit to
cleanly install XP on a hard drive works perfectly well, I say that
Microsoft has put its imprimature on using current installations of
Windows as proof of qualifying media.

By the OP's own words, he currently possesses an installation of ME
residing on his HD. I say that this is totally adequate for using
the XP Retail Upgrade kit to install XP on his HD cleanly. So giving
him advice that he must have a physical CD to use the XP Retail
Upgrad kit to install XP cleanly is misleading, and may cause him to
go out and purchase an unnecessary previous install cd for Windows ME
or other 9x product if he can afford it, or may cause him to just
decide not to install XP, if he no longer possesses distribution
media for a previous version of Windows, or cannot afford it.

However, I am a packrat, and have every copy of Windows I have bought
since Windows 95. I have no need to be a casual copier of software
and other licensed media. Maybe he is also, and has copies of Win
3.xx and DOS 6.22 down to DOS 1.0 to boot (My DOS distributions went
the way of the wind after I installed Windows 98), along with the
first copies of Compute magazine.
Neither of us know whether the OP is a licensed user of Windows ME.
We must assume that he is, since the US Constitution tells us that we
are innocent until proven guilty.

We are left with the following:
If we possess, either on original distribution media, or residing on
a hard drive on which we intend to install Windows XP, a copy of
Windows 98, Windows 98SE, ME, Windows NT 4.1 or above, we are
entitled to use the Windows XP Retail Upgrade installation kit to
install one copy of Windows XP on a hard drive partition of our
choice, and to use the kit to make an archival copy of the
distribution media, or make an image of the partition containing
Windows XP for archival purposes.
I believe that the above is a reasonable expectation of user rights
for an owner of a Microsoft XP operating system.

Wow! got lost in the clouds somehow...

The flaw in your theory is what does the user do that does not have
restore disks and they only have a qualifying windows installed or a
restore partition and the hard drive crashes or is formatted? What do
they do with the upgrade version of XP?
They would need qualifying media or a full version.
This is my reason to hesitate recommending the upgrade version when
qualifying media is not available or restore disks.
No one is disputing you, just adding more for thought.

Which is what I am doing: "just adding more for thought."

In the case of a HD going down, the purchaser of the upgrade kit would be
out of luck, unless he purchased or otherwise procured a legal copy of
Windows. I have never denied this. However, the OP tells us that he has an
installation of ME. I assume it is on a relatively healthy HD. A hard
drive would have to be beaten to death to go down. While this does happen
(hard drives eventually all go bad), hard drives going down are not an
everyday occurence for the majority of users. The common condition is that
most people have a usable HD on any one day.

By the way, my words are not "theory", but proven fact, since it has been my
experience on more than one occasion. The fact is, a person with a previous
installation of Windows on his HD CAN install XP using the Upgrade kit,(and
has the legal rights under his EULA) even if he has no other means of
proving to the Setup program that he has qualifying media. That is, the
installation of Windows currently residing on his hard drive is, with no
doubts, all the so-called "qualifying media" he needs to use the Windows XP
upgrade kit.

The fact is, you cannot deny that so-called qualifying media in the form of
a distribution CD or floppies are NOT necessarily needed to use the XP
Retail Upgrade installation kit to perform a clean installation of XP.

XP is expensive enough as it is. Why add in (in many cases) purchasing
another expensive (I have seen the prices of Full Retail copies of Windows
98. They still hover around $120+) copy of Windows, when a current
installation of Windows on one's hard drive is all that is needed to install
XP cleanly using the Retail Upgrade kit. Perhaps by purchasing the retail
upgrade kit, necessary resources would be freed for a person to purchase an
older copy of Windows, in which case an existing installation would not be
needed.

I realize that this is not an option for those whose only OS is Windows 95,
but for the majority of users, I feel that it is the best alternative to the
Full Retail kit.

Many people do not have older copies of Windows on hand. Either they never
saved their older copies of Windows, or they never got a computer until
recently, in which case they would not have your so-called "qualifying
media" which you seem to think is necessary to do a clean install of XP with
the Upgrade kit.

Many people also do not realize the need to periodically purge their HDs and
reinstall their OS, so they throw away their older copies of Windows, opting
instead to nurse along a single installation until it dies of its own
accord.

Many people just do not save things. Why advise them to purchase a second
copy of Windows, just so they can reinstall their OS if needed? Especially
since many people can only afford to purchase a single copy of Windows in
the first place.

I do realize that the best option for thoughtless people is to purchase the
Full Retail install kit, so that they would be able to reinstall their OS at
any time, under any circumstance. However, being a person who lives on a
very limited budget (I live on disability payments from the government--less
than $750/month), I look for ways to spend less money, and like to pass on
my learned experiences.

$299(plus tax and shipping) for the Full Retail install kit of XP Pro is
totally unreasonable. I tried Home, and found it to be unstable. I also
tried purchasing so-called "FULL OEM" install kits, and used them for years,
until Microsoft decided to change our OEM EULAs and make it impossible for
us to activate our OSes (sic) via the Internet.

Being able to save almost $200 by purchasing the Retail Upgrade kit really
helped me have resources free for other necessary purchases, like
medications and food. I paid $159 for my Retail Upgrade kit of Windows XP
Pro through Amazon. Finding out that I can do a clean install using the
Upgrade kit, even if I have no distribution media for a previous version of
Windows has been a God-send. As long as I have an installation of XP on my
HD, I will be able to do a clean install using my Retail Upgrade kit.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original thread,
so that the thread may be kept intact.
==============================

In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ok, let us theorize for a minute:

Let us assume that a user does own a previous copy of Windows,
but it
is on his hard drive, not a CD (which this theoretical user
thoughtlessly threw out). Will he be entitled to use the XP
Upgrade
kit to install cleanly? If this is so (and I believe our EULA
entitles us to use the XP Upgrade kit to install cleanly even
if we
have NO copy of Windows on a CD anymore), then your statement

"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

Note that you state here "own a previous qualifying versions
installation CD...".
This is your statement, not mine.
I am plainly stating that this statement is NOT completely
true.

I have stated something entirely different (note that the
following
is a paraphrase of my thesis)
"the requirement to use the XP Upgrade kit is to own a previous
installation of Windows, WHETHER it is on a CD, OR on a hard
drive."


I can't tell whether you're nitpicking or just being obstinate,
but yes, I agree. I said exactly the same thing. You have not
said something "completely different," you've said the same thing
I have. Would you prefer if I changed it to "The requirement to
use an upgrade version is to *own* a previous qualifying
version's installation CD, not *necessarily* to have it
installed."? As far as I'm concerned, that "necessarily" was
implied, but if it makes you happy, I'll add the word.



Note that there are TWO ways to own a copy of Windows: EITHER
by
possessing a CD or other distribution media, such as floppies,
OR by
possessing an installation residing on one of your hard drives.


Yes, as I keep saying.


NOT
one(possessing the distribution media of a previous version of
Windows), as you seem to imply.


No, I've never implied that. Again, I think you've simply misread
my sentence.


Since the way I have shown to use the XP Retail Upgrade kit to
cleanly
install XP on a hard drive works perfectly well, I say that
Microsoft
has put its imprimature on using current installations of
Windows as
proof of qualifying media.


Yes.


By the OP's own words, he currently possesses an installation
of ME
residing on his HD. I say that this is totally adequate for
using
the XP Retail Upgrade kit to install XP on his HD cleanly.


Yes.


So giving
him advice that he must have a physical CD to use the XP Retail
Upgrad kit to install XP cleanly is misleading,


Yes. I never said that, and again, you've misread my sentence.

....

Wow! got lost in the clouds somehow...


Yes, I think so.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

In ,
Donald L McDaniel respectfully replied ;-)
Michael Stevens wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel respectfully replied
;-)
Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ken Blake wrote:
In ,
Donald L McDaniel typed:

Ken Blake wrote:

The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore
CD,
see
below), not to have it installed.

This is patently untrue.


Wrong. It is absolutely true.


If you have a previous version of Windows
installed on your HD, and prepare your disk for a clean
installation
of XP by booting from the XP CD, and partition and format it
from
within Setup, the Setup program will NEVER ask for qualifying
media.


I didn't say otherwise. You are talking about the situation
where
a previous version *is* installed. I am talking about doing a
clean installation of Windows XP with the Upgrade version when
no
previous version is installed.

Mr. Blake, how can your statement


Please, no formality is required, even if we disagree (but I
don't think we really do--see below). Just "Ken" is fine.


"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

be absolutely true? If this were so, my experience would not
be
true. I know what I experienced.


And I believe you.


All that IS required is to have a
licensed version of Windows EITHER previously installed, OR on
installation media.


Yes, I agree. I said the same thing. You need to own it, but you
don't need to have it installed (that means it may or may not be
installed).

I think you've just misunderstood what I said.

Ok, let us theorize for a minute:

Let us assume that a user does own a previous copy of Windows, but
it is on his hard drive, not a CD (which this theoretical user
thoughtlessly threw out). Will he be entitled to use the XP Upgrade
kit to install cleanly? If this is so (and I believe our EULA
entitles us to use the XP Upgrade kit to install cleanly even if we
have NO copy of Windows on a CD anymore), then your statement

"The requirement to use an upgrade version is to *own* a
previous
qualifying version's installation CD (with an OEM restore CD,
see
below), not to have it installed."

Note that you state here "own a previous qualifying versions
installation CD...".
This is your statement, not mine.
I am plainly stating that this statement is NOT completely true.

I have stated something entirely different (note that the following
is a paraphrase of my thesis)
"the requirement to use the XP Upgrade kit is to own a previous
installation of Windows, WHETHER it is on a CD, OR on a hard drive."

Note that there are TWO ways to own a copy of Windows: EITHER by
possessing a CD or other distribution media, such as floppies, OR by
possessing an installation residing on one of your hard drives. NOT
one(possessing the distribution media of a previous version of
Windows), as you seem to imply.
Since the way I have shown to use the XP Retail Upgrade kit to
cleanly install XP on a hard drive works perfectly well, I say that
Microsoft has put its imprimature on using current installations of
Windows as proof of qualifying media.

By the OP's own words, he currently possesses an installation of ME
residing on his HD. I say that this is totally adequate for using
the XP Retail Upgrade kit to install XP on his HD cleanly. So
giving him advice that he must have a physical CD to use the XP
Retail Upgrad kit to install XP cleanly is misleading, and may
cause him to go out and purchase an unnecessary previous install cd
for Windows ME or other 9x product if he can afford it, or may
cause him to just decide not to install XP, if he no longer
possesses distribution media for a previous version of Windows, or
cannot afford it. However, I am a packrat, and have every copy of
Windows I have
bought since Windows 95. I have no need to be a casual copier of
software and other licensed media. Maybe he is also, and has
copies of Win 3.xx and DOS 6.22 down to DOS 1.0 to boot (My DOS
distributions went
the way of the wind after I installed Windows 98), along with the
first copies of Compute magazine.
Neither of us know whether the OP is a licensed user of Windows ME.
We must assume that he is, since the US Constitution tells us that
we are innocent until proven guilty.

We are left with the following:
If we possess, either on original distribution media, or residing on
a hard drive on which we intend to install Windows XP, a copy of
Windows 98, Windows 98SE, ME, Windows NT 4.1 or above, we are
entitled to use the Windows XP Retail Upgrade installation kit to
install one copy of Windows XP on a hard drive partition of our
choice, and to use the kit to make an archival copy of the
distribution media, or make an image of the partition containing
Windows XP for archival purposes.
I believe that the above is a reasonable expectation of user rights
for an owner of a Microsoft XP operating system.

Wow! got lost in the clouds somehow...

The flaw in your theory is what does the user do that does not have
restore disks and they only have a qualifying windows installed or a
restore partition and the hard drive crashes or is formatted? What do
they do with the upgrade version of XP?
They would need qualifying media or a full version.
This is my reason to hesitate recommending the upgrade version when
qualifying media is not available or restore disks.
No one is disputing you, just adding more for thought.

Which is what I am doing: "just adding more for thought."

In the case of a HD going down, the purchaser of the upgrade kit
would be out of luck, unless he purchased or otherwise procured a
legal copy of Windows. I have never denied this. However, the OP
tells us that he has an installation of ME. I assume it is on a
relatively healthy HD. A hard drive would have to be beaten to
death to go down. While this does happen (hard drives eventually all
go bad), hard drives going down are not an everyday occurence for the
majority of users. The common condition is that most people have a
usable HD on any one day.
By the way, my words are not "theory", but proven fact, since it has
been my experience on more than one occasion. The fact is, a person
with a previous installation of Windows on his HD CAN install XP
using the Upgrade kit,(and has the legal rights under his EULA) even
if he has no other means of proving to the Setup program that he has
qualifying media. That is, the installation of Windows currently
residing on his hard drive is, with no doubts, all the so-called
"qualifying media" he needs to use the Windows XP upgrade kit.


I never said it wasn't, how long are you going to beat this dead horse?

The fact is, you cannot deny that so-called qualifying media in the
form of a distribution CD or floppies are NOT necessarily needed to
use the XP Retail Upgrade installation kit to perform a clean
installation of XP.

Wasn't trying to and never did.

XP is expensive enough as it is. Why add in (in many cases)
purchasing another expensive (I have seen the prices of Full Retail
copies of Windows 98. They still hover around $120+) copy of Windows,
when a current
installation of Windows on one's hard drive is all that is needed to
install XP cleanly using the Retail Upgrade kit. Perhaps by
purchasing the retail upgrade kit, necessary resources would be freed
for a person to purchase an older copy of Windows, in which case an
existing installation would not be needed.

I realize that this is not an option for those whose only OS is
Windows 95, but for the majority of users, I feel that it is the best
alternative to the Full Retail kit.

Many people do not have older copies of Windows on hand. Either they
never saved their older copies of Windows, or they never got a
computer until recently, in which case they would not have your
so-called "qualifying media" which you seem to think is necessary to
do a clean install of XP with the Upgrade kit.


How can you do a clean install with an upgrade XP version if you do not have
XP installed, a restore partition, restore disks or a qualifying Windows?
Please enlighten me if you can.

Many people also do not realize the need to periodically purge their
HDs and reinstall their OS,

This is not necessary with XP and is not recommended.

so they throw away their older copies of
Windows, opting instead to nurse along a single installation until it
dies of its own accord.

Many people just do not save things. Why advise them to purchase a
second copy of Windows, just so they can reinstall their OS if
needed? Especially since many people can only afford to purchase a
single copy of Windows in the first place.


I didn't, did I?

I do realize that the best option for thoughtless people is to
purchase the Full Retail install kit, so that they would be able to
reinstall their OS at any time, under any circumstance. However,
being a person who lives on a very limited budget (I live on
disability payments from the government--less than $750/month), I
look for ways to spend less money, and like to pass on my learned
experiences.
$299(plus tax and shipping) for the Full Retail install kit of XP Pro
is totally unreasonable. I tried Home, and found it to be unstable.

Since they are exactly the same except for added networking and security and
a few extra features [none that would enhance stability over home],
stability would not be better with Pro over home. It was not home that
caused the instability.

I also tried purchasing so-called "FULL OEM" install kits, and used
them for years, until Microsoft decided to change our OEM EULAs and
make it impossible for us to activate our OSes (sic) via the Internet.

Unbranded OEM versions are not effected by disabling of internet activation,
only the major OEMs.


Being able to save almost $200 by purchasing the Retail Upgrade kit
really helped me have resources free for other necessary purchases,
like medications and food. I paid $159 for my Retail Upgrade kit of
Windows XP Pro through Amazon. Finding out that I can do a clean
install using the Upgrade kit, even if I have no distribution media
for a previous version of Windows has been a God-send. As long as I
have an installation of XP on my HD, I will be able to do a clean
install using my Retail Upgrade kit.

I hope this dead horse is buried soon. 8-)
--
Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com
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