If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
Hi,
in case of trouble it is sometimes helpful to restart Windows. What is the difference between "shutdown" and "restart" in that respect ? Wolfgang _____________________________________ |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
"WolfgangJ" wrote in message ... Hi, in case of trouble it is sometimes helpful to restart Windows. What is the difference between "shutdown" and "restart" in that respect ? Wolfgang _____________________________________ "Shut Down" - shuts down and exits Windows and prepares to power-off the PC. It either shuts off the power automatically (assuming the BIOS supports such a feature) or comes up with message "It is now safe to turn off your computer", so you can turn it off by pressing the power button. Normally though, modern PC's have the ability to auto-shut off as a modern PC would be required to run XP anyway. The auto shutoff is handled through the Advanced Power Management and/or options set in the BIOS. "Restart" - Restarts the computer (reboot) - and reloads Windows. This is often use where new software is installed and the system requires a restart for the new program to run correctly. Referring to your "in case of trouble" statement; yes, the system might become unstable or freeze up at times, so a restart is the way to clear it. If the system encounters a serious error, Windows can restart rather than showing the Blue Screen of Death error. But you can turn these features on/off (not sure how though). Generally Windows XP is very good at clearing troublesome (crashing) programs, and can usually let the user continue using the system without the need to restart (unlike Windows ME!). I hope I have given an adequate answer, but not sure where you're heading with this question.....? |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
not sure where you're heading with this question.....?
I wanted to know if there is a difference in erasing previous data like swap files, RAM etc. Do "shut down" as well as "restart" completely begin from scratch without any difference ? |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
WolfgangJ wrote:
Hi, in case of trouble it is sometimes helpful to restart Windows. What is the difference between "shutdown" and "restart" in that respect ? Wolfgang _____________________________________ Well, a lot of people will say there's no difference and in most, not all cases, that's true. However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. There's more to it, but that's the most basic difference I think. Pop` |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
'WolfgangJ' wrote:
| I wanted to know if there is a difference in erasing previous data like | swap files, RAM etc. Do "shut down" as well as "restart" completely | begin from scratch without any difference ? _____ 'Shut Down' and 'Restart' both turn off most of the power supply, and all data in RAM is lost. The swap file is not 'erased' no matter what method you use to end and start a computer session. However the operating system no longer has a record where each page is stored on the 'swap' or 'paging file' and most of the contents of the swap file are scattered. The same is true when you 'delete' a file; the data remains on the hard drive, but the space taken up is marked available for use, and eventually overwritten. That's why you have some chance of recovering an accidentally erased file if you catch the error quickly enough. You may be thinking about 'Hibernate'. 'Hibernate' causes Windows XP to store the contents of memory and the machine state on 'hiberfile.sys' and then turns the power off. When you restart the system, only the 'boot' Controlled by the BIOS has to be done...Windows XP does not have to restart. I comes up in just a few seconds with all the windows, programs, and data you were working with when you executed 'Hibernate' rather than 'Shut Down.' Phil Weldon "WolfgangJ" wrote in message ... | not sure where you're heading with this question.....? | | I wanted to know if there is a difference in erasing previous data like | swap files, RAM etc. Do "shut down" as well as "restart" completely | begin from scratch without any difference ? | |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
'Pop`' wrote, in part:
| However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared | out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often | necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed | form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. _____ Not true. The RAM in personal computers is volatile; any data dissipates in a fraction of a second when power is removed. Restart functions exactly the same as a Shutdown followed by a Start. Forty years ago, this was not true, but there were no personal computers then either. Phil Weldon "Pop`" wrote in message ... | WolfgangJ wrote: | Hi, | | in case of trouble it is sometimes helpful to restart Windows. | What is the difference between "shutdown" and "restart" in that | respect ? | Wolfgang | _____________________________________ | | Well, a lot of people will say there's no difference and in most, not all | cases, that's true. However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared | out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often | necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed | form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. | | There's more to it, but that's the most basic difference I think. | | Pop` | | |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 17:45:49 -0400, Pop` wrote:
Well, a lot of people will say there's no difference and in most, not all cases, that's true. However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. There's more to it, but that's the most basic difference I think. That's been my experience as well. Systems that perform a "soft restart" can hold over some error conditions between restarts. I can clearly remember doing this as a part of standard troubleshooting for Win95. Do not see it recommended often nowadays, so suspect Phil is right about a change in power management and/or hardware. Old habits die hard though. If a machine is giving me persistent problems, I still shutdown for a full minute before booting again. -- Sharon F MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
Phil,
With all due respect Phil, it is true and often "fixes" a stubborn problem when Restart is used to no avail. Nearly everyone has experienced it at one time or another though they may not recognize it. As I said earlier, there are other things at work; some are listed below: Restart: --POST isn't run completely; but it is after a shut down. --Power supply is not shut down; but it is actually powered down after a shut down --is known as a "soft" or "warm" boot. Shutdown is a "cold" boot. --does not "reset" a hardware hangup since power is never completely removed. A Cold boot however, or Power-off, will release the hangup most times. Usually ten seconds "off" is plenty of time, but most people recommend longer periods just to cover the extreme cases where maybe 11 seconds are needed. Usually, only a second or less are required, depending on some other things, but up to ten is the generally recognized technical solution for time "off". -- does not guarantee the "reset" line will work on all chips if they are hung (tri-stated, capacitively locked, whatever; lots of possibilities.). HTH Pop` Phil Weldon wrote: 'Pop`' wrote, in part: However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. _____ Not true. The RAM in personal computers is volatile; any data dissipates in a fraction of a second when power is removed. Restart functions exactly the same as a Shutdown followed by a Start. Forty years ago, this was not true, but there were no personal computers then either. Phil Weldon "Pop`" wrote in message ... WolfgangJ wrote: Hi, in case of trouble it is sometimes helpful to restart Windows. What is the difference between "shutdown" and "restart" in that respect ? Wolfgang _____________________________________ Well, a lot of people will say there's no difference and in most, not all cases, that's true. However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. There's more to it, but that's the most basic difference I think. Pop` |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
Sharon F wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 17:45:49 -0400, Pop` wrote: Well, a lot of people will say there's no difference and in most, not all cases, that's true. However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. There's more to it, but that's the most basic difference I think. That's been my experience as well. Systems that perform a "soft restart" can hold over some error conditions between restarts. I can clearly remember doing this as a part of standard troubleshooting for Win95. Do not see it recommended often nowadays, so suspect Phil is right about a change in power management and/or hardware. Old habits die hard though. If a machine is giving me persistent problems, I still shutdown for a full minute before booting again. I agree, it's much less necessary these days; the reset lines are better designed and in general there are a lot of design improvements. I still recommend it often and a few times or so a year I manage to have to use it. My most recent experience with it was a program install that either corrupted on disk or the install was trash; not sure which. The logs indicated multiple writes to the same area of RAM and page file and no REstart was going to fix it, or so I decided after three tries, anyway. It just wouldn't/couldn't get to the login screen. Dreading having to restore from an image I powered down. Counted off about 30 seconds, and powered back up (a cold boot). Viola: Everything worked and after zeroing out the logs, they were clean, too. I was back in business. Nothing lost except one application I decided to can and got my money back on. In some ways I'm a purist; mess up my machine and you don't get to live on itG. I passed it on to a freind who had XP Home and guess what? Same thing there (I have XP Pro). And again, a cold boot solved it. I verified it was OK a few days later by checking her log files; clean since the date stamp of the cold boot. But you're right, it's not like the days of 95 and/or 98. But even 98 got to be pretty good near the end there when all the fixes were out and they were ready to obsolete itg! I have it running on another machine and it gives few problems nowadays. I keep it for some DOS progs I use periodically. Pop` |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
'Pop`' wrote:
| With all due respect Phil, it is true and often "fixes" a stubborn problem | when Restart is used to no avail. Nearly everyone has experienced it at | one | time or another though they may not recognize it. As I said earlier, there | are other things at work; some are listed below: | | Restart: | --POST isn't run completely; but it is after a shut down. | --Power supply is not shut down; but it is actually powered down after a | shut down | --is known as a "soft" or "warm" boot. Shutdown is a "cold" boot. | --does not "reset" a hardware hangup since power is never completely | removed. A Cold boot however, or Power-off, will release the hangup most | times. Usually ten seconds "off" is plenty of time, but most people | recommend longer periods just to cover the extreme cases where maybe 11 | seconds are needed. Usually, only a second or less are required, | depending | on some other things, but up to ten is the generally recognized technical | solution for time "off". | -- does not guarantee the "reset" line will work on all chips if they are | hung (tri-stated, capacitively locked, whatever; lots of possibilities.). _____ Your explanation of 'Restart', "POST', memory, and machine state is just wrong. 'Restart' does indeed reboot, completely. The machine state is reset. The clocks stop. Memory refresh stops (if a bit is not refreshed within a window of ~ 64 milliseconds it is no longer valid). Memory is reset. AND no matter what is in memory, if the operating system or BIOS does not know about it, it isn't there. Gone are the days when memory had to be set to all zeros. There may be any number of reasons for you think you observe, but certainly not the reasons you state. Phil Weldon "Pop`" wrote in message ... | Phil, | | With all due respect Phil, it is true and often "fixes" a stubborn problem | when Restart is used to no avail. Nearly everyone has experienced it at one | time or another though they may not recognize it. As I said earlier, there | are other things at work; some are listed below: | | Restart: | --POST isn't run completely; but it is after a shut down. | --Power supply is not shut down; but it is actually powered down after a | shut down | --is known as a "soft" or "warm" boot. Shutdown is a "cold" boot. | --does not "reset" a hardware hangup since power is never completely | removed. A Cold boot however, or Power-off, will release the hangup most | times. Usually ten seconds "off" is plenty of time, but most people | recommend longer periods just to cover the extreme cases where maybe 11 | seconds are needed. Usually, only a second or less are required, depending | on some other things, but up to ten is the generally recognized technical | solution for time "off". | -- does not guarantee the "reset" line will work on all chips if they are | hung (tri-stated, capacitively locked, whatever; lots of possibilities.). | | HTH | Pop` | | | | | | | Phil Weldon wrote: | 'Pop`' wrote, in part: | However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared | out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often | necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is | removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. | _____ | | Not true. | The RAM in personal computers is volatile; any data dissipates in a | fraction of a second when power is removed. | Restart functions exactly the same as a Shutdown followed by a Start. | Forty years ago, this was not true, but there were no personal | computers then either. | | Phil Weldon | | | "Pop`" wrote in message | ... | WolfgangJ wrote: | Hi, | | in case of trouble it is sometimes helpful to restart Windows. | What is the difference between "shutdown" and "restart" in that | respect ? | Wolfgang | _____________________________________ | | Well, a lot of people will say there's no difference and in most, | not all cases, that's true. However, in order to be certain that | RAM get cleared out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be | gone, it's often necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so | that power is removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't | allow that. | | There's more to it, but that's the most basic difference I think. | | Pop` | | | | |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
Phil Weldon wrote:
'Pop`' wrote: With all due respect Phil, it is true and often "fixes" a stubborn problem when Restart is used to no avail. Nearly everyone has experienced it at one time or another though they may not recognize it. As I said earlier, there are other things at work; some are listed below: Restart: --POST isn't run completely; but it is after a shut down. --Power supply is not shut down; but it is actually powered down after a shut down --is known as a "soft" or "warm" boot. Shutdown is a "cold" boot. --does not "reset" a hardware hangup since power is never completely removed. A Cold boot however, or Power-off, will release the hangup most times. Usually ten seconds "off" is plenty of time, but most people recommend longer periods just to cover the extreme cases where maybe 11 seconds are needed. Usually, only a second or less are required, depending on some other things, but up to ten is the generally recognized technical solution for time "off". -- does not guarantee the "reset" line will work on all chips if they are hung (tri-stated, capacitively locked, whatever; lots of possibilities.). _____ Your explanation of 'Restart', "POST', memory, and machine state is just wrong. 'Restart' does indeed reboot, completely. The machine state is reset. The clocks stop. Memory refresh stops (if a bit is not refreshed within a window of ~ 64 milliseconds it is no longer valid). Memory is reset. AND no matter what is in memory, if the operating system or BIOS does not know about it, it isn't there. Gone are the days when memory had to be set to all zeros. There may be any number of reasons for you think you observe, but certainly not the reasons you state. Phil Weldon "Pop`" wrote in message ... Phil, With all due respect Phil, it is true and often "fixes" a stubborn problem when Restart is used to no avail. Nearly everyone has experienced it at one time or another though they may not recognize it. As I said earlier, there are other things at work; some are listed below: Restart: --POST isn't run completely; but it is after a shut down. --Power supply is not shut down; but it is actually powered down after a shut down --is known as a "soft" or "warm" boot. Shutdown is a "cold" boot. --does not "reset" a hardware hangup since power is never completely removed. A Cold boot however, or Power-off, will release the hangup most times. Usually ten seconds "off" is plenty of time, but most people recommend longer periods just to cover the extreme cases where maybe 11 seconds are needed. Usually, only a second or less are required, depending on some other things, but up to ten is the generally recognized technical solution for time "off". -- does not guarantee the "reset" line will work on all chips if they are hung (tri-stated, capacitively locked, whatever; lots of possibilities.). HTH Pop` Phil Weldon wrote: 'Pop`' wrote, in part: However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. _____ Not true. The RAM in personal computers is volatile; any data dissipates in a fraction of a second when power is removed. Restart functions exactly the same as a Shutdown followed by a Start. Forty years ago, this was not true, but there were no personal computers then either. Phil Weldon "Pop`" wrote in message ... WolfgangJ wrote: Hi, in case of trouble it is sometimes helpful to restart Windows. What is the difference between "shutdown" and "restart" in that respect ? Wolfgang _____________________________________ Well, a lot of people will say there's no difference and in most, not all cases, that's true. However, in order to be certain that RAM get cleared out completely, so that any leftovers are sure to be gone, it's often necessary to shut down for twenty seconds or so so that power is removed form RAM for that long. A restart doesn't allow that. There's more to it, but that's the most basic difference I think. Pop` Trying to rephrase and covering only part of the process does nothing to help your case. Sorry, I'm done; closed minds don't seem to care to see the forests. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Shutdown-Restart
'Pop`' wrote:
| Trying to rephrase and covering only part of the process does nothing to | help your case. Sorry, I'm done; closed minds don't seem to care to see the | forests. _____ With which of these details I cited do you disagree? | 'Restart' does indeed reboot, completely. | The machine state is reset. | The clocks stop. | Memory refresh stops (if a bit is not refreshed within a window of ~ | 64 milliseconds it is no longer valid). | Memory is reset. | AND no matter what is in memory, if the operating system or BIOS does | not know about it, it isn't there. I can supply some reference cites if you are interested. Phil Weldon "Pop`" wrote in message ... | Phil Weldon wrote: | 'Pop`' wrote: | With all due respect Phil, it is true and often "fixes" a stubborn | problem when Restart is used to no avail. Nearly everyone has | experienced it at one | time or another though they may not recognize it. As I said earlier, | there are other things at work; some are listed below: | | Restart: | --POST isn't run completely; but it is after a shut down. | --Power supply is not shut down; but it is actually powered down | after a shut down | --is known as a "soft" or "warm" boot. Shutdown is a "cold" boot. | --does not "reset" a hardware hangup since power is never completely | removed. A Cold boot however, or Power-off, will release the hangup | most times. Usually ten seconds "off" is plenty of time, but most | people recommend longer periods just to cover the extreme cases | where maybe 11 seconds are needed. Usually, only a second or less | are required, depending | on some other things, but up to ten is the generally recognized | technical solution for time "off". | -- does not guarantee the "reset" line will work on all chips if | they are hung (tri-stated, capacitively locked, whatever; lots of | possibilities.). _____ | | Your explanation of 'Restart', "POST', memory, and machine state is | just wrong. | | 'Restart' does indeed reboot, completely. | The machine state is reset. | The clocks stop. | Memory refresh stops (if a bit is not refreshed within a window of ~ | 64 milliseconds it is no longer valid). | Memory is reset. | AND no matter what is in memory, if the operating system or BIOS does | not know about it, it isn't there. | Gone are the days when memory had to be set to all zeros. | | There may be any number of reasons for you think you observe, but | certainly not the reasons you state. | | Phil Weldon | | Trying to rephrase and covering only part of the process does nothing to | help your case. Sorry, I'm done; closed minds don't seem to care to see the | forests. | | | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|