O.T. Can't logon to the Internet:

wrote:

Understood; one last question if I may. Eventually,
my Seagate 1TB External HD is going to fill up. So
do I start deleting backups and system images or do
I just buy another external HD?

What do you guys do?

Thanks,
Robert



If you're a home user like us, you're probably
not all that organized. And you'll forget to do the
backups, before you run out of disk space :-)

It you're a paid IT person, who does nothing
but backups, the boss will make you use "best
practice". Some "pattern" which everyone in the
industry uses, whatever that is.

So I'll just make one up.

*******

You can use a variable density method.

Let's take my 20GB C: and my 1TB drive as an
example. I have room for 50 full backups.
Now, say I adopt the following pattern.
I back up every day. I keep one backup
at the end of the week. I keep four weekly
backups until the end of the month. I keep one
of those as a monthly backup. I keep the monthly
backups for a year. At the end of a year, I recycle
the monthly ones, and keep just one of them (say Dec)
as my yearly backup. That's about 23 rotating
backups, and an accumulation of one per year after
that. In 27 years time, (2040), I've used up
my 50 storage slots.

....
2010 Yearly \
2011 Yearly \__ These accumulate
2012 Yearly / Yearly
Jan monthly \
Feb monthly \
Mar monthly \
.... \
Nov monthly \
Week 1 (weekly) \___ These rotate
Week 2 (weekly) / Daily, weekly, monthly
Week 3 (weekly) /
Week 4 (weekly) /
Mon /
Tues /
Wed /
.... /
Sun /

So later, if today is Wednesday, and I lost a file
or ruined my registry, I could restore from the Tuesday
file. The density is very high, in the near term, because
I place the most value on the things I've done recently.

Whereas, a file I edited a year ago, I probably don't
need daily resolution in my archiving. Instead of keeping
365 backups, I keep just one of those for future consideration.
That is balancing the odds I'll never need to access the
yearly at all, versus needing to check back to see if I
have a copy.

I have needed to go back that far. One experiment I was
doing, I needed to go back two years, to find a clean
enough WinXP image, for the experiment I was doing. More
recent backups had the problem in them, and couldn't be
used. But I normally, never need to go back that far.
Most of the time, yesterday's backup is the one I need.

*******

To do the chart and pattern, you almost need a calendar program,
to tell you which file to toss, which file to keep and
re-label, and so on. It's very confusing!

Now, in addition to that, you need both software
redundancy and hardware redundancy. I can
combine both concepts, in a less than ideal way.
I can do two backups a day. I do an Acronis one,
with the 23 rotating backup pattern above, to one
hard drive. I can do a Macrium Reflect one, to a
second hard drive, having its own 23 rotating backups
made with Macrium. If a backup hard drive fails, I
still have my backups on the other drive (like a RAID 1
mirror in a sense).

If I find I go to do a restoration, and my Macrium
software is somehow broken, I can take the second
drive, and try to restore the Acronis backup I made.
Between the two brands of software, one of them is
bound to work.

See how complicated this is ? You almost
need a backup software, that incorporates best practice
in its scheduler, and it tells you what to do.
If you keep track of this with paper, you're
sure to screw up the pattern.

Some people keep a yearly or two, in their
safety deposit box. Someone with significant
banking records say, might do that. You might
occasionally make a DVD out of the most valuable
files, for later.

So that's a scheme I just made up for your amusement.
IT people have some kind of "pattern" they use, which
balances cost and storage space, versus the needs
of the users. If the users decide "monthlies forever"
is the way to go, I'll be using up my 50 storage
slots a lot faster.

My own backups are event based. My hard drive is
failing (SMART statistics look bad), I make a full image,
and store that somewhere. Two years from now, I realize
that file is obsolete or not worth much, and overwrite
with some other backup. Some backups are made, because
I need insurance for an experiment, and I leave the backup
there (lazy), and it comes in handy months later. That's
how a home user thinks. In a "not organized" way. My
backup density is erratic at best.

Enjoy,
Paul

Lots of good information.

I couldn't find how to create backups
or creating a system image on the 8200
and read that only XP Professional has
this capability.


Also, I recently tried running update
on the 8200 and was taking forever
network delay?). I searched and found
(3) ngen.exe files.

I opened the command prompt and typed:

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems

and it came back as command as not recognizable.

Robert

wrote:
Lots of good information.

I couldn't find how to create backups
or creating a system image on the 8200
and read that only XP Professional has
this capability.

Third party software, like Acronis True Image, or Macrium Reflect (free), or
other similar programs.

There's a difference between just making backups of your personal files and
backing up your system with an image backup, which is what those two
programs are for.

wrote:
Lots of good information.

I couldn't find how to create backups
or creating a system image on the 8200
and read that only XP Professional has
this capability.


Also, I recently tried running update
on the 8200 and was taking forever
network delay?). I searched and found
(3) ngen.exe files.

I opened the command prompt and typed:

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems

and it came back as command as not recognizable.

Robert

I tried your command here, and it ran just fine. Mine
returned "All compilation targets are up to date".

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems

Try navigating to the folder in question, and see if
the ngen.exe file is there ? Maybe the file doesn't
exist or something.

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319

*******

Bill says to try a third party backup.

Macrium Reflect Free is available from the lower left corner here.

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

Windows XP comes with NTBackup. I've run the backup
as a test, but never tried doing a restore from it.
So I don't know the details of what you use for boot
media if restoring to a blank disk. I do have a
BartPE CD, with a NTBackup 5 plugin, but that's cheating.
It took me quite a few tries, to get good at making
BartPE stuff (that was good enough to actually use).
And since I have Macrium and other tools, I haven't
really needed to rely on that stuff at all. My BartPE,
is for if I'm visiting someone who needs recovery
from their ntbackup.

I don't really know if this would work in an emergency.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/15n1vz8.jpg

( http://i42.tinypic.com/15n1vz8.gif )

Paul

I'll check out Bills recommendations after I resolve
all the issues.

I did navigate to the file and checked it before
entering it in the command prompt and it was there.

The only difference I can think of is that my
command prompt isn't just a C:\_ it has

C\Documents and Settings\My Name_

Could this be the problem and how do I remove all
the appendages or find a simple command prompt?

Thanks,
Robert

wrote:
I'll check out Bills recommendations after I resolve
all the issues.

I did navigate to the file and checked it before
entering it in the command prompt and it was there.

The only difference I can think of is that my
command prompt isn't just a C:\_ it has

C\Documents and Settings\My Name_

Could this be the problem and how do I remove all
the appendages or find a simple command prompt?

Thanks,
Robert

That's not an issue. That is how mine starts.

If you want to navigate to C:\, you can use

cd \

as a command in the Command Prompt window. You can also
say things like

cd Windows

to go to the next level down. Or

cd ..

to go up a level. The "change directory" command
has all sorts of nifty options.

*******

That affects the current working directory (data directory),
as well as potentially affecting the execution path if the
executable happens to be in that directory. I think
the current working data directory, is in the execution path
as well. The execution path can be edited as an environment
variable, and some software installers will "add" their
directory to the execution path.

NGEN is not in the execution path, which is why I gave that
long example as a means to execute it. I wrote the command
this way on my machine, so the computer would find it. After
verifying the file was actually in that directory.

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems

If the path variable had C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319
added to it, the command could have been shortened to just the ngen.exe
part.

I don't know why yours is not working.

*******

In this example, the user is getting a "not recognized" error,
because it's still a %PATH% issue. Perhaps ngen.exe is executing
and some dependency it needs is not working (different from
how it works on my system here). This is just an illustration
of a user debugging a script problem, and messing around
by editing the %PATH% environment variable, until his problem
is solved.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...ternal-command

About the only thing I can suggest, is the Aaron Stebner .net tester,
which tests that .net installations are able to execute a test program.
I don't expect this covers every situation, so it may not actually
complain about your installation. That's why I'm not really
expecting this to be upset or anything.

netfx_setupverifier_new

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/astebner/arc...3/8999004.aspx

This is the link to the Skydrive ZIP package with the
netfx_setupverifier_new test program inside. It gives
a small dialog window, with a pulldown menu for the various
versions of .net. You select a version, then ask the tool
to test it. I don't really think this will shine any light
on your problem, but you're welcome to try. It will likely
"pass" your setup and not complain. Maybe some .dll the
ngen.exe program needs, is missing or something. Pre-compilation
of a .net assembly may still be carried out, as a part of
running this test, but I'm not sure ngen.exe is used for
that process each time. I tend to think of ngen.exe
is something that "sits off to the side" of normal
activities. It could be busted, and you wouldn't
otherwise notice, because all the important stuff
would still work.

http://cid-27e6a35d1a492af7.skydrive...ier%7C_new.zip

HTH,
Paul

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 19:42:58 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote:

Would the safest thing for him to do, Paul, be to just go into Control
Panel, and select System, Hardware, Device Manager, and then go to the
yellow exclamation point item, and right click on it and find the option
there (and only there) to install an updated driver - and then insert his
CD? Rather than just inserting the CD and trying to install everything?
Just wondering....

BTW, pink is the microphone input, and blue is the line input, at least as I
recall. (I don't know what the yellow is for, and am too lazy to google it
(he can do that :-)

One of them is the speaker/headphone output but nobody knows which
one.

micky wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 19:42:58 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote:

Would the safest thing for him to do, Paul, be to just go into Control
Panel, and select System, Hardware, Device Manager, and then go to the
yellow exclamation point item, and right click on it and find the option
there (and only there) to install an updated driver - and then insert his
CD? Rather than just inserting the CD and trying to install everything?
Just wondering....

BTW, pink is the microphone input, and blue is the line input, at least
as I
recall. (I don't know what the yellow is for, and am too lazy to google
it
(he can do that :-)

One of them is the speaker/headphone output but nobody knows which
one.

Green, as I recall. So Blue input, Green output.
I still don't know what yellow is, but I haven't googled it, either. :-)
For some things (related to TV) it's used for video (with red and white
typically for the audio - that's common for composite video as I recall).

I tried running update again with no luck. Also, the 8200
has a yellow triangle with a question mark on the bottom
right hand side of the screen from time to time. I tried holding
the mouse over it and clicking it to see what it was but neither
worked.

I checked device manager and it was all good.

I searched again for ngen.exe, this is what I have:

C:\WINDOWS\ Prefetch executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.1.4322\ngen. exe executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\ngen .exe executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems

I open up the command prompt and did the first one:

It came back with this:

Display the ngen state
ngen executeQueuedItems [1:2:3]
Executes queued complilation jobs.
If priority is not specified all queued compilation jobs are done.
If priority is specified all queued compilation jobs with greater or equal
prority than the specified are done. short form: eqi
negen queue [pause: continue: status]
Allows the user to pause and continue the NGen Service, and to
query its status.

Scenarios:
/Debug - Generate images that can be that can be used under a debugger
/Profile - Generate images that can be that can be used under a profiler
- Generate the minimal number of native images
required by this scenario


Config:
/ExConFig:path to exe - Use the configuration of the specified

/AppBase:path to appbase directory - Use the specified directory as
the appbase


Thoughts/Suggestions
Robert

wrote:
I tried running update again with no luck. Also, the 8200
has a yellow triangle with a question mark on the bottom
right hand side of the screen from time to time. I tried holding
the mouse over it and clicking it to see what it was but neither
worked.

I checked device manager and it was all good.

I searched again for ngen.exe, this is what I have:

C:\WINDOWS\ Prefetch executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.1.4322\ngen. exe executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\ngen .exe executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems

I open up the command prompt and did the first one:

It came back with this:

Display the ngen state
ngen executeQueuedItems [1:2:3]
Executes queued complilation jobs.
If priority is not specified all queued compilation jobs are done.
If priority is specified all queued compilation jobs with greater or equal
prority than the specified are done. short form: eqi
negen queue [pause: continue: status]
Allows the user to pause and continue the NGen Service, and to
query its status.

Scenarios:
/Debug - Generate images that can be that can be used under a debugger
/Profile - Generate images that can be that can be used under a profiler
- Generate the minimal number of native images
required by this scenario


Config:
/ExConFig:path to exe - Use the configuration of the specified

/AppBase:path to appbase directory - Use the specified directory as
the appbase


Thoughts/Suggestions
Robert

Your first result, suggests the first item on the command
line was ignored, and the Command Prompt window tried to execute
"executequeueditems" instead.

There should be only one space character in the command line. It's
not like the path has a space in it.

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems

It the path had a space character, you could try
surrounding the command portion in double quotes, like this.

"C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\nge n.exe" executequeueditems

Some of the program shortcuts are done that way.

There are no spaces at the beginning of the command at all.
The C: portion, you enter that right next to the command prompt.

I don't thing the parameter "executequeueditems" has any
forward or backward slash in front of it, nor any hyphen
character. It should just be the word itself.

Paul

I agree, there is only one space (between exe and execute,.....) However,
just to play it safe I tried it again with quotes. This is what I typed:

C:\"WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ng en.exe" executequeueditems

It came back with this:

Microsoft R CLR Native Image Generator - Version 4.0.30319.1
Copyright c Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
All compilation targets are up to date.

Robert

wrote:
I agree, there is only one space (between exe and execute,.....) However,
just to play it safe I tried it again with quotes. This is what I typed:

C:\"WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ng en.exe" executequeueditems

It came back with this:

Microsoft R CLR Native Image Generator - Version 4.0.30319.1
Copyright c Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
All compilation targets are up to date.

Robert

OK, now there should be no delay for the networking to
start on your PC, just after WinXP finishes booting.

The "All compilation targets are up to date" means
that all .NET code assemblies detected on the computer,
have been pre-compiled for faster loading. They're stored
in a cache folder somewhere, all to shave one second off
some program's start time. A lot of drama, for nothing.

Paul

Still doesn't update.

I checked all the egen.exe on the command
prompt and it came back command not recognized.

I'll try again tomorrow.

Robert

Here's what I did:
I went back and opened the command prompt and did each of my ngen.exe files:


C:\WINDOWS\ Prefetch executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.1.4322\ngen. exe executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\ngen .exe executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems


it came back with the following:

Prefetch executequeueditems - I ran this twice and the first time
it gave me:

The system cannot find the path specified

The second time it gave me:

'C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framewok\Prefetch' is not recognized
as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

4322 - The system cannot find the file specified
50727 - All compilation targets are up to date
30319 - All compilation targets are up to date

I checked the device manager and everything was ok

I then tried running update and it ran for 30 minutes when the yellow
triangle with an exclamation mark appeared again and this time it said
updates were ready to install. So I clicked it and the updates (8) started to
install!
After installation, I restarted the computer and checked the device manager
and it all looked good. The screen came up faster than before and the
computer 'seems' much more responsive. I then checked for updates to see
if the problem had cleared; and yes, it cleared the problem and have installed
(7) more updates including Skype. It all seems working normally now.

My last question, (hopefully) will I have to continue to look for egen.exe files or
anything else? I appreciate all your help and guidance and sticking with me
through all of this and walking me through it.

Again, many thanks,

Robert

wrote:
Here's what I did:
I went back and opened the command prompt and did each of my ngen.exe files:


C:\WINDOWS\ Prefetch executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.1.4322\ngen. exe executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\ngen .exe executequeueditems

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems


it came back with the following:

Prefetch executequeueditems - I ran this twice and the first time
it gave me:

The system cannot find the path specified

The second time it gave me:

'C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framewok\Prefetch' is not recognized
as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.

4322 - The system cannot find the file specified
50727 - All compilation targets are up to date
30319 - All compilation targets are up to date

I checked the device manager and everything was ok

I then tried running update and it ran for 30 minutes when the yellow
triangle with an exclamation mark appeared again and this time it said
updates were ready to install. So I clicked it and the updates (8) started to
install!
After installation, I restarted the computer and checked the device manager
and it all looked good. The screen came up faster than before and the
computer 'seems' much more responsive. I then checked for updates to see
if the problem had cleared; and yes, it cleared the problem and have installed
(7) more updates including Skype. It all seems working normally now.

My last question, (hopefully) will I have to continue to look for egen.exe files or
anything else? I appreciate all your help and guidance and sticking with me
through all of this and walking me through it.

Again, many thanks,

Robert

You use NGEN to correct a specific set of symptoms.

1) You start your day, running Windows Update.
2) In the list of updates, is an update to .NET.
You install the .NET security update.
3) Later, after a reboot, you notice that the network icon on
your computer, isn't normal, and networking does not function
on the computer, until a couple minutes have passed.

If those are the symptoms and results, then you can try to
repair the problem with

ngen.exe executequeueditems

You don't need to do that command otherwise.

If on your system, it needs " " around the command portion,
then use that in the future too.

"C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\nge n.exe" executequeueditems

If you don't notice "funny problems with networking, after
a reboot", then your .NET assemblies are up to date.

HTH,
Paul