Router sulks, then works.

On one of these groups, I posted about 6 months ago about the adapter
for my router failing after a power outage. Apparently it's not a
power surge but just normal unplugging and replugging that is bad for
many things (especially maybe if they can cool off in between). I
used a universal adapter for a while and bought the exact replacement
adapter, with the D-Link label, on Ebay. Everything fine.

Last night we had another power failure and today, after futile
attempts to get my mail, I see that none of the lights on the router
are on. I hadn't even gotten around to taking the universal adapter
back to it's drawer in the basement!

So I switched to that and it didnt' work, but after I unplugged and
plugged it in 3 times, ALL the lights on the router went on and stayed
on. I ended up unplugging it from the adapter at least 10 times
before it finally started working. And now it's been fine for hours.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 20:17:00 -0400, Micky
wrote:

On one of these groups, I posted about 6 months ago about the adapter
for my router failing after a power outage. Apparently it's not a
power surge but just normal unplugging and replugging that is bad for
many things (especially maybe if they can cool off in between). I
used a universal adapter for a while and bought the exact replacement
adapter, with the D-Link label, on Ebay. Everything fine.

Last night we had another power failure and today, after futile
attempts to get my mail, I see that none of the lights on the router
are on. I hadn't even gotten around to taking the universal adapter
back to it's drawer in the basement!

So I switched to that and it didnt' work, but after I unplugged and
plugged it in 3 times, ALL the lights on the router went on and stayed
on. I ended up unplugging it from the adapter at least 10 times
before it finally started working. And now it's been fine for hours.

As a general rule, based on typical product design of older equipment,
a power reset is only reliably achieved through disconnection of power
for a few minutes. I use a 5 minute rule, based on worst case
experience with larger machines - with experience this can be reduced.

Reset buttons and even on-off switches can not always be counted on to
do this.

If you only want to do this only once, it's worth the extra wait,
particularly if there are many suspect devices (including PCs) in the
possible fault chain. With experience, some fault-specific components
in the chain may be identified to reduce any running around.

RL

On 6/7/2016 5:17 PM, Micky wrote:
On one of these groups, I posted about 6 months ago about the adapter
for my router failing after a power outage. Apparently it's not a
power surge but just normal unplugging and replugging that is bad for
many things (especially maybe if they can cool off in between). I
used a universal adapter for a while and bought the exact replacement
adapter, with the D-Link label, on Ebay. Everything fine.

Last night we had another power failure and today, after futile
attempts to get my mail, I see that none of the lights on the router
are on. I hadn't even gotten around to taking the universal adapter
back to it's drawer in the basement!

So I switched to that and it didnt' work, but after I unplugged and
plugged it in 3 times, ALL the lights on the router went on and stayed
on. I ended up unplugging it from the adapter at least 10 times
before it finally started working. And now it's been fine for hours.


By any chance, are you on Southern California Edison (SCE)?

Despite being plugged into a surge suppressor, a SCE outage late last
year fried my router, possibly when power was restored. I had to go out
and buy a new one. SCE denied any responsibility and refused to
reimburse the cost of the router. All they did was apologize for the
inconvenience. Last Saturday, we had another SCE outage. I rushed to
unplug my router before the electricity came back on. This time, my
router survived.

SCE has outages sufficiently often, that I refuse to surrender my
land-line phone service. AT&T powers the phones independently of SCE,
which means I can call SCE when there is an outage. Such calls are
impossible during an outage with VoIP phone service, and even some cell
towers die when SCE dies.

SCE repeatedly tells me that I can report outages through their Web
site. It does not tell me how to reach their Web site when my PC, my
router, my modem, and the Internet cable service all fail to work
without electricity.

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/.

Donald Trump claims he is a successful businessman.
If so, how does he explain the number of his
enterprises that have gone bankrupt?

On 06/08/2016 09:39 AM, David E. Ross wrote:

[snip]

SCE repeatedly tells me that I can report outages through their Web
site. It does not tell me how to reach their Web site when my PC, my
router, my modem, and the Internet cable service all fail to work
without electricity.


During the last multi-day power outage here, I was using a laptop and
mobile hotspot. I ram my generator only part of the time to keep them
charged.

BTW, I have seldom (if ever) benefited from reporting a power outage.
The system is usually busy from others reporting outages. However, I
still liked checking the map that shows outages.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"If the answers to prayer are merely what God wills all along, then why
pray?" Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
(Madison, WI: FFRF, 1992), p. 108.

[Default] On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 09:43:45 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Wolf K
wrote:

On 2016-06-07 20:17, Micky wrote:
On one of these groups, I posted about 6 months ago about the adapter
for my router failing after a power outage. Apparently it's not a
power surge but just normal unplugging and replugging that is bad for
many things (especially maybe if they can cool off in between). I
used a universal adapter for a while and bought the exact replacement
adapter, with the D-Link label, on Ebay. Everything fine.

Last night we had another power failure and today, after futile
attempts to get my mail, I see that none of the lights on the router
are on. I hadn't even gotten around to taking the universal adapter
back to it's drawer in the basement!

So I switched to that and it didnt' work, but after I unplugged and
plugged it in 3 times, ALL the lights on the router went on and stayed
on. I ended up unplugging it from the adapter at least 10 times
before it finally started working. And now it's been fine for hours.

Avoid the problem: buy an uninterrupted power supply.

I have one, but I didn't think to connect the router to it. Thanks

Have a good day,

[Default] On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 11:43:34 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Mark Lloyd
wrote:


BTW, I have seldom (if ever) benefited from reporting a power outage.
The system is usually busy from others reporting outages. However, I
still liked checking the map that shows outages.

I don't report them because I know there are others more impatient
than I. I just sit in the dark. Plus these days, I wonder if they
self-report?

I think night before last was just for a moment. I have a UPS on my
DVDR, but it doesn't work as well as I'd hoped for, and iirc even with
the UPS, the DVDR forgets what shows to record if the outage is more
than a few moments. (testing would be very inconvenient.) Or I could
compare with my analog clocks.

"Micky" wrote in message
news
On one of these groups, I posted about 6 months ago about the adapter
for my router failing after a power outage. Apparently it's not a
power surge but just normal unplugging and replugging that is bad for
many things (especially maybe if they can cool off in between).

Its fairly common for items with an SMPSU to have an inrush limiting NTC
thermistor, these reduce in resistance when current flow heats them up -
they take a few minutes to cool back to room temperature and return to the
higher resistance.

They're mainly to limit the charging surge for the reservoir capacitor -
some items don't have the NTC device, but don't seem to be conspicuously any
less reliable.

After a certain manufacture date; anything over 50W had to have a PFC front
end - basically a switch mode regulator that preceeds the reservoir
capacitor - soft start is easier and cheaper to do electronically than
include the NTC device.

[Default] On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 22:13:39 +0100, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general "Ian Field"
wrote:



"Micky" wrote in message
news
On one of these groups, I posted about 6 months ago about the adapter
for my router failing after a power outage. Apparently it's not a
power surge but just normal unplugging and replugging that is bad for
many things (especially maybe if they can cool off in between).

Its fairly common for items with an SMPSU to have an inrush limiting NTC
thermistor, these reduce in resistance when current flow heats them up -
they take a few minutes to cool back to room temperature and return to the
higher resistance.

They're mainly to limit the charging surge for the reservoir capacitor -
some items don't have the NTC device, but don't seem to be conspicuously any
less reliable.

After a certain manufacture date; anything over 50W had to have a PFC front
end - basically a switch mode regulator that preceeds the reservoir
capacitor - soft start is easier and cheaper to do electronically than
include the NTC device.

Well this thing is pretty old. 8 years at least but I can't remember
where I bought it. Maybe it was used. D-link DI-524

On 6/7/2016 8:17 PM, Micky wrote:
On one of these groups, I posted about 6 months ago about the adapter
for my router failing after a power outage. Apparently it's not a
power surge but just normal unplugging and replugging that is bad for
many things (especially maybe if they can cool off in between). I
used a universal adapter for a while and bought the exact replacement
adapter, with the D-Link label, on Ebay. Everything fine.

Last night we had another power failure and today, after futile
attempts to get my mail, I see that none of the lights on the router
are on. I hadn't even gotten around to taking the universal adapter
back to it's drawer in the basement!

So I switched to that and it didnt' work, but after I unplugged and
plugged it in 3 times, ALL the lights on the router went on and stayed
on. I ended up unplugging it from the adapter at least 10 times
before it finally started working. And now it's been fine for hours.


It would seem that the logical thing would be to simply buy a new router
from a good maker. If the router uses a 12V supply and your area has bad
power problems something like a Belkin BU3DC001-12V instead of a 'normal'
wall-wart supply might be advisable too if the plug is fully compatible. I
use the Belkin on my AT&T modem (it came with one) and another on my main
switch in the equipment room (I had a spare one just sitting there) while
each of the computers has their own 1200VA AC UPS supplying it and any
important ancillary network equipment, etc, in their vicinity. I have five
of these AC UPS units. The power in my area really sucks big time and I
eventually learned my lesson...

But I never did see any symptoms such as you describe -- everything reset
fine after being powered off for a few seconds or when the reset button was
pressed (in the old days where there were actual reset buttons on small
network equipment).

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:05:53 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Well this thing is pretty old. 8 years at least but I can't remember
where I bought it. Maybe it was used. D-link DI-524

Garbage. I had nothing but problems with that vintage D-Link hardware
due to line glitches. The stock 5V 2.5A JTA0302B power supply is a
known headache. They tend to last about 3-5 years before the
capacitors bulge. If you put a scope on the PS line, you'll find it
full of switching trash. If you're good at brain surgery and working
in tight spaces, you can possibly fix it.

This is unusual, but cute:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMVyFy_pb7E (1:41)

Look through the Linksys refurbished collection for a cheap
replacement:
http://stores.ebay.com/Linksys-Official-Store?_dmd=2&_nkw=refurbished

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:32:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:05:53 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Well this thing is pretty old. 8 years at least but I can't remember
where I bought it. Maybe it was used. D-link DI-524

Garbage. I had nothing but problems with that vintage D-Link hardware
due to line glitches. The stock 5V 2.5A JTA0302B power supply is a
known headache. They tend to last about 3-5 years before the
capacitors bulge.

Yeah, now I r emember that we talked about capacitors (on electonics
repair) the last time, and I cracked it open and looked, but I didnt'
seen any that looked swollen. Maybe I just don't know how to look.

And my experience is consistent with yours, 2 bad ones in 8 years.
Last time, after the new power supply came via Ebay, it dawned on me
that I'd bought a spare at a hamfest, but I went to look at it, and it
had no wifi, only routing, and the power supply wasn't with it. But
then a few months later, I found a brand new, still wrapped in
cellophane, same thing as I'm using. I'd forgotten I had both. So I
know where to get a 3rd powersupply and if it blows, I'll go back to
the Ambico Universal Digital Camera AC Adaptor, 2100mA, with 4
different tips** and voltages from 3 to 7 volts. I paid $9 for it
20 years ago for just this sort of situation.

**tubular tips, none of which would fit any digital camera made these
days, because they are all USB, aren't they? Even many of the brands
of camera they list don't make cameras anymore, afaik: Hewlitt
Packard, Vivitar, Kodak, Minolta, Epson. Epson?

If you put a scope on the PS line, you'll find it
full of switching trash. If you're good at brain surgery and working
in tight spaces, you can possibly fix it.

I'm working on it, but when I get good at brain surgery, I plan to be
a brain surgeon.

This is unusual, but cute:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMVyFy_pb7E (1:41)

Look through the Linksys refurbished collection for a cheap
replacement:
http://stores.ebay.com/Linksys-Official-Store?_dmd=2&_nkw=refurbished

"Micky" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:32:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:05:53 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Well this thing is pretty old. 8 years at least but I can't remember
where I bought it. Maybe it was used. D-link DI-524

Garbage. I had nothing but problems with that vintage D-Link hardware
due to line glitches. The stock 5V 2.5A JTA0302B power supply is a
known headache. They tend to last about 3-5 years before the
capacitors bulge.

Yeah, now I r emember that we talked about capacitors (on electonics
repair) the last time, and I cracked it open and looked, but I didnt'
seen any that looked swollen. Maybe I just don't know how to look.

Electrolytics don't always bulge - sometimes they get hot and expel
electrolyte past the rubber bung, when they cool, a vacuum forms and
sometimes makes the top slightly concave.

If you remove them - the dead ones usually feel lighter than they should.

The usual problem is ESR - high internal resistance, this causes losses when
filtering the output from an SMPSU. Those losses translate into heat that
you can feel - but watch out; electrolytics on the primary side of an SMPSU
can have live cans!

You could always buy an ESR meter - but the good ones aren't cheap.

Some types of combined continuity/voltage testers with 2 LED indication can
give a near enough test - one LED "kicks" as the capacitor charges when you
press the button, the other LED "kicks" on discharge as you release the
button. It takes experience to read how fast or slow the LEDs fade, but I
got away with such a tester for years.

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016, Ian Field wrote:



"Micky" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:32:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:05:53 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Well this thing is pretty old. 8 years at least but I can't remember
where I bought it. Maybe it was used. D-link DI-524

Garbage. I had nothing but problems with that vintage D-Link hardware
due to line glitches. The stock 5V 2.5A JTA0302B power supply is a
known headache. They tend to last about 3-5 years before the
capacitors bulge.

Yeah, now I r emember that we talked about capacitors (on electonics
repair) the last time, and I cracked it open and looked, but I didnt'
seen any that looked swollen. Maybe I just don't know how to look.

Electrolytics don't always bulge - sometimes they get hot and expel
electrolyte past the rubber bung, when they cool, a vacuum forms and
sometimes makes the top slightly concave.

If you remove them - the dead ones usually feel lighter than they should.

The usual problem is ESR - high internal resistance, this causes losses when
filtering the output from an SMPSU. Those losses translate into heat that you
can feel - but watch out; electrolytics on the primary side of an SMPSU can
have live cans!

But it's more likely that the electrolytics on the secondary are the
problem. Those run at much higher frequencies than 60 or 50Hz from the
line, which makes them more vulnerable.

Michael


You could always buy an ESR meter - but the good ones aren't cheap.

Some types of combined continuity/voltage testers with 2 LED indication can
give a near enough test - one LED "kicks" as the capacitor charges when you
press the button, the other LED "kicks" on discharge as you release the
button. It takes experience to read how fast or slow the LEDs fade, but I got
away with such a tester for years.

"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1606091603410.17608@darkstar. example.org...
On Thu, 9 Jun 2016, Ian Field wrote:



"Micky" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:32:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Jun 2016 19:05:53 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Well this thing is pretty old. 8 years at least but I can't remember
where I bought it. Maybe it was used. D-link DI-524

Garbage. I had nothing but problems with that vintage D-Link hardware
due to line glitches. The stock 5V 2.5A JTA0302B power supply is a
known headache. They tend to last about 3-5 years before the
capacitors bulge.

Yeah, now I r emember that we talked about capacitors (on electonics
repair) the last time, and I cracked it open and looked, but I didnt'
seen any that looked swollen. Maybe I just don't know how to look.

Electrolytics don't always bulge - sometimes they get hot and expel
electrolyte past the rubber bung, when they cool, a vacuum forms and
sometimes makes the top slightly concave.

If you remove them - the dead ones usually feel lighter than they should.

The usual problem is ESR - high internal resistance, this causes losses
when filtering the output from an SMPSU. Those losses translate into heat
that you can feel - but watch out; electrolytics on the primary side of
an SMPSU can have live cans!

But it's more likely that the electrolytics on the secondary are the
problem. Those run at much higher frequencies than 60 or 50Hz from the
line, which makes them more vulnerable.

Not so with the electronic PFC front end.

The rectifier output only has a low capacitor film type - the rough DC goes
straight to the PFC circuit, that is basically a flyback boost converter,
and that's what charges the reservoir electrolytic.

Before the proliferation of PFC, I was in mainstream servicing - I had to
replace enough rectifier/reservoir electrolytics to complain about how much
they cost!

For UK mains; the PFC reservoir has to be rated 450V instead of 385V - and
handle SMPSU type ripple. So I expect they're a bit more expensive and
probably fail more often.