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#1
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
Xp Pro, SP3, and fully patched, machine will not see network on cold boot.
it's one of 4 on my local network, the other 3 are fine. System details OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600 OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation System Name AMD-2 System Manufacturer NVIDIA System Model AWRDACPI System Type X86-based PC Processor x86 Family 15 Model 44 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~1808 Mhz BIOS Version/Date Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG, 26/08/2005 SMBIOS Version 2.3 Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32 Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1 Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)" User Name xxxxxxxxxxxxx Time Zone GMT Standard Time Total Physical Memory 4,096.00 MB Available Physical Memory 1.60 GB Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB Page File Space 3.85 GB Page File C:\pagefile.sys AMD Have spent a LOT of time investigating, including a clean reinstall of XP only, with format of HDD also, which did allow it to work initially. After discovering that the problem wasn't cleared, I have also tried a different power supply, and changed the CMOS battery. The BIOS was also flashed to the latest level, not without some problems due to flash revision levels, but as far as I can tell, it is all correct. My suspicion is that something in a recent change of XP is corrupting the CMOS, if I power down completely, remove CMOS battery, and then clear CMOS, on restart, after loading defaults and setting date/time and specific configuration options, it works 100%. Warm boot, restarts, all fine. Cold boot, and I have to reset the CMOS again. I've since discovered that just restoring the defaults on startup will allow it to work now, which may be related to the flash not having defaults loaded. There's no indication of any errors in the CMOS checksum at startup, and no other issues that I am aware of, and as far as I can see, the only thing left is that somehow, XP is doing something to a CMOS setting that is preventing the network from working after the next cold boot. No applications other than XP have been run, and the machine is protected from intrusion by an external firewall, so there should not be anything nasty there. I am trying to find a utility that will allow me to dump and examine the CMOS contents, so that I can try and pin this down, but I've not found one yet. I want to see if CMOS changes in areas other than date and time between boots, as that may give a clue as to what's going on. This has me well baffled, I've been around hardware for a very long time, but never seen a problem that's this specific and repeatable in this way. Looking for hints, suggestions or ideas of what may be causing this strange behaviour Thanks -- Steve |
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#2
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
Device Manager and Network Connections may be blank after you install
Windows XP Service Pack 3 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953791/en-us Device Manager may not show any devices and Network Connections may not show any network connections after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953979/en-us Changes to the 802.1X-based wired network connection settings in Windows XP Service Pack 3 Describes that the AuthMode and SupplicantMode registry entries are no longer used in Windows XP Service Pack 3 for a 802.1X-based wired network connection. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949984/en-us You cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network after you upgrade to Windows XP Service Pack 3 Problem in which you cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953650/en-us JS http://www.pagestart.com "Steve Garry" sgarry@simpilotdotnet wrote in message ... Xp Pro, SP3, and fully patched, machine will not see network on cold boot. it's one of 4 on my local network, the other 3 are fine. System details OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600 OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation System Name AMD-2 System Manufacturer NVIDIA System Model AWRDACPI System Type X86-based PC Processor x86 Family 15 Model 44 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~1808 Mhz BIOS Version/Date Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG, 26/08/2005 SMBIOS Version 2.3 Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32 Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1 Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)" User Name xxxxxxxxxxxxx Time Zone GMT Standard Time Total Physical Memory 4,096.00 MB Available Physical Memory 1.60 GB Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB Page File Space 3.85 GB Page File C:\pagefile.sys AMD Have spent a LOT of time investigating, including a clean reinstall of XP only, with format of HDD also, which did allow it to work initially. After discovering that the problem wasn't cleared, I have also tried a different power supply, and changed the CMOS battery. The BIOS was also flashed to the latest level, not without some problems due to flash revision levels, but as far as I can tell, it is all correct. My suspicion is that something in a recent change of XP is corrupting the CMOS, if I power down completely, remove CMOS battery, and then clear CMOS, on restart, after loading defaults and setting date/time and specific configuration options, it works 100%. Warm boot, restarts, all fine. Cold boot, and I have to reset the CMOS again. I've since discovered that just restoring the defaults on startup will allow it to work now, which may be related to the flash not having defaults loaded. There's no indication of any errors in the CMOS checksum at startup, and no other issues that I am aware of, and as far as I can see, the only thing left is that somehow, XP is doing something to a CMOS setting that is preventing the network from working after the next cold boot. No applications other than XP have been run, and the machine is protected from intrusion by an external firewall, so there should not be anything nasty there. I am trying to find a utility that will allow me to dump and examine the CMOS contents, so that I can try and pin this down, but I've not found one yet. I want to see if CMOS changes in areas other than date and time between boots, as that may give a clue as to what's going on. This has me well baffled, I've been around hardware for a very long time, but never seen a problem that's this specific and repeatable in this way. Looking for hints, suggestions or ideas of what may be causing this strange behaviour Thanks -- Steve |
#3
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
Update,
Networking Does work, as long as I reset the defaults in CMOS before boot. If I don't, everything is there, and all the basics are in place, it just fails to connect from the machine to the hub. That's what is so confusing about this, my understanding is that the CMOS is checksummed, so if it was being corrupted, the Checksum error warning would show during boot, and ask for an update. It doesn't, the machine loads apparently normally, and the only thing missing is the network connectivity. Reset the CMOS, reboot, and it's working, no other changes at all are needed. I have checked the possible implication of the changes for SP3, and as far as I can see, the necessary things are there. Thanks -- Steve "JS" wrote: Device Manager and Network Connections may be blank after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953791/en-us Device Manager may not show any devices and Network Connections may not show any network connections after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953979/en-us Changes to the 802.1X-based wired network connection settings in Windows XP Service Pack 3 Describes that the AuthMode and SupplicantMode registry entries are no longer used in Windows XP Service Pack 3 for a 802.1X-based wired network connection. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949984/en-us You cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network after you upgrade to Windows XP Service Pack 3 Problem in which you cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953650/en-us JS http://www.pagestart.com |
#4
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
Sounds like you have a network chip on the motherboard
which is being controlled by the BIOS. Does 'Device Manager' show any issues? JS http://www.pagestart.com "Steve Garry" sgarry@simpilotdotnet wrote in message ... Update, Networking Does work, as long as I reset the defaults in CMOS before boot. If I don't, everything is there, and all the basics are in place, it just fails to connect from the machine to the hub. That's what is so confusing about this, my understanding is that the CMOS is checksummed, so if it was being corrupted, the Checksum error warning would show during boot, and ask for an update. It doesn't, the machine loads apparently normally, and the only thing missing is the network connectivity. Reset the CMOS, reboot, and it's working, no other changes at all are needed. I have checked the possible implication of the changes for SP3, and as far as I can see, the necessary things are there. Thanks -- Steve "JS" wrote: Device Manager and Network Connections may be blank after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953791/en-us Device Manager may not show any devices and Network Connections may not show any network connections after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953979/en-us Changes to the 802.1X-based wired network connection settings in Windows XP Service Pack 3 Describes that the AuthMode and SupplicantMode registry entries are no longer used in Windows XP Service Pack 3 for a 802.1X-based wired network connection. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949984/en-us You cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network after you upgrade to Windows XP Service Pack 3 Problem in which you cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953650/en-us JS http://www.pagestart.com |
#5
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
JS,
Could be, the network chip is on board, and there is a control option to enable and disable in BIOS, which is correctly set to enable, and the option for network boot is disabled, also correct. Mobo is Biostar NF325A7. Device manager is not showing any issues, and I am using the machine right now to send these messages, that's the strange thing, once it's up, it stays there until the next cold boot, with no problems at all, and it's downloaded several gigabytes of updates for various applications without a single missed packet or retry. This issue is very similar to one that has been causing huge grief with Zone Alarm recently (ZA is NOT installed on this machine), and ZA are saying that they are having problems finding the cause, and based on a lot of hours this week reloading XP Pro, and downloading the updates in a planned manner, to try and isolate where this is coming from, I can understand that only too well. Do you know of any utilities or similar that would allow me to see what's in CMOS at various times, so that I can try and get an idea if something is being changed, and if it is, when that's happening. Obviously, the time area is being constantly updated, but I would expect the other areas to remain pretty static. Cheers Steve -- Steve "JS" wrote: Sounds like you have a network chip on the motherboard which is being controlled by the BIOS. Does 'Device Manager' show any issues? JS http://www.pagestart.com "Steve Garry" sgarry@simpilotdotnet wrote in message ... Update, Networking Does work, as long as I reset the defaults in CMOS before boot. If I don't, everything is there, and all the basics are in place, it just fails to connect from the machine to the hub. That's what is so confusing about this, my understanding is that the CMOS is checksummed, so if it was being corrupted, the Checksum error warning would show during boot, and ask for an update. It doesn't, the machine loads apparently normally, and the only thing missing is the network connectivity. Reset the CMOS, reboot, and it's working, no other changes at all are needed. I have checked the possible implication of the changes for SP3, and as far as I can see, the necessary things are there. Thanks -- Steve "JS" wrote: Device Manager and Network Connections may be blank after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953791/en-us Device Manager may not show any devices and Network Connections may not show any network connections after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953979/en-us Changes to the 802.1X-based wired network connection settings in Windows XP Service Pack 3 Describes that the AuthMode and SupplicantMode registry entries are no longer used in Windows XP Service Pack 3 for a 802.1X-based wired network connection. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949984/en-us You cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network after you upgrade to Windows XP Service Pack 3 Problem in which you cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953650/en-us JS http://www.pagestart.com |
#6
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
See if you can find out network the chip make/brand.
If the make/brand is not obvious then try Belarc Advisor: http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html It does a good job of providing a wealth of information. JS www.pagestart.com "Steve Garry" sgarry@simpilotdotnet wrote in message ... JS, Could be, the network chip is on board, and there is a control option to enable and disable in BIOS, which is correctly set to enable, and the option for network boot is disabled, also correct. Mobo is Biostar NF325A7. Device manager is not showing any issues, and I am using the machine right now to send these messages, that's the strange thing, once it's up, it stays there until the next cold boot, with no problems at all, and it's downloaded several gigabytes of updates for various applications without a single missed packet or retry. This issue is very similar to one that has been causing huge grief with Zone Alarm recently (ZA is NOT installed on this machine), and ZA are saying that they are having problems finding the cause, and based on a lot of hours this week reloading XP Pro, and downloading the updates in a planned manner, to try and isolate where this is coming from, I can understand that only too well. Do you know of any utilities or similar that would allow me to see what's in CMOS at various times, so that I can try and get an idea if something is being changed, and if it is, when that's happening. Obviously, the time area is being constantly updated, but I would expect the other areas to remain pretty static. Cheers Steve -- Steve "JS" wrote: Sounds like you have a network chip on the motherboard which is being controlled by the BIOS. Does 'Device Manager' show any issues? JS http://www.pagestart.com "Steve Garry" sgarry@simpilotdotnet wrote in message ... Update, Networking Does work, as long as I reset the defaults in CMOS before boot. If I don't, everything is there, and all the basics are in place, it just fails to connect from the machine to the hub. That's what is so confusing about this, my understanding is that the CMOS is checksummed, so if it was being corrupted, the Checksum error warning would show during boot, and ask for an update. It doesn't, the machine loads apparently normally, and the only thing missing is the network connectivity. Reset the CMOS, reboot, and it's working, no other changes at all are needed. I have checked the possible implication of the changes for SP3, and as far as I can see, the necessary things are there. Thanks -- Steve "JS" wrote: Device Manager and Network Connections may be blank after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953791/en-us Device Manager may not show any devices and Network Connections may not show any network connections after you install Windows XP Service Pack 3. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953979/en-us Changes to the 802.1X-based wired network connection settings in Windows XP Service Pack 3 Describes that the AuthMode and SupplicantMode registry entries are no longer used in Windows XP Service Pack 3 for a 802.1X-based wired network connection. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/949984/en-us You cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network after you upgrade to Windows XP Service Pack 3 Problem in which you cannot connect to an 802.1X wired network. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953650/en-us JS http://www.pagestart.com |
#7
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
JS,
Nvidia Nforce, and then it also shows up a whole selection of devices, all of which are happy, and showing no problems. Driver is 4.4.2.0, as far as I know, correct version. -- Steve "JS" wrote: See if you can find out network the chip make/brand. If the make/brand is not obvious then try Belarc Advisor: http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html It does a good job of providing a wealth of information. JS www.pagestart.com |
#8
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
Your Biostar NF325A7 list the network chip as a
Realtek RTL8201 PHY 10/100 LAN. From what I could see you have the LAN latest driver. BIOSTAR web site for your motherboard: http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=nf325-a7 Please check verify you have the latest motherboard chip drivers. And BIOS version! http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdownloa...model=NF325-A7 JS http://www.pagestart.com "Steve Garry" sgarry@simpilotdotnet wrote in message news JS, Nvidia Nforce, and then it also shows up a whole selection of devices, all of which are happy, and showing no problems. Driver is 4.4.2.0, as far as I know, correct version. -- Steve "JS" wrote: See if you can find out network the chip make/brand. If the make/brand is not obvious then try Belarc Advisor: http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html It does a good job of providing a wealth of information. JS www.pagestart.com |
#9
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
Steve Garry wrote:
Xp Pro, SP3, and fully patched, machine will not see network on cold boot. it's one of 4 on my local network, the other 3 are fine. System details OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600 OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation System Name AMD-2 System Manufacturer NVIDIA System Model AWRDACPI System Type X86-based PC Processor x86 Family 15 Model 44 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~1808 Mhz BIOS Version/Date Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG, 26/08/2005 SMBIOS Version 2.3 Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32 Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1 Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)" User Name xxxxxxxxxxxxx Time Zone GMT Standard Time Total Physical Memory 4,096.00 MB Available Physical Memory 1.60 GB Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB Page File Space 3.85 GB Page File C:\pagefile.sys AMD Have spent a LOT of time investigating, including a clean reinstall of XP only, with format of HDD also, which did allow it to work initially. After discovering that the problem wasn't cleared, I have also tried a different power supply, and changed the CMOS battery. The BIOS was also flashed to the latest level, not without some problems due to flash revision levels, but as far as I can tell, it is all correct. My suspicion is that something in a recent change of XP is corrupting the CMOS, if I power down completely, remove CMOS battery, and then clear CMOS, on restart, after loading defaults and setting date/time and specific configuration options, it works 100%. Warm boot, restarts, all fine. Cold boot, and I have to reset the CMOS again. I've since discovered that just restoring the defaults on startup will allow it to work now, which may be related to the flash not having defaults loaded. There's no indication of any errors in the CMOS checksum at startup, and no other issues that I am aware of, and as far as I can see, the only thing left is that somehow, XP is doing something to a CMOS setting that is preventing the network from working after the next cold boot. No applications other than XP have been run, and the machine is protected from intrusion by an external firewall, so there should not be anything nasty there. I am trying to find a utility that will allow me to dump and examine the CMOS contents, so that I can try and pin this down, but I've not found one yet. I want to see if CMOS changes in areas other than date and time between boots, as that may give a clue as to what's going on. This has me well baffled, I've been around hardware for a very long time, but never seen a problem that's this specific and repeatable in this way. Looking for hints, suggestions or ideas of what may be causing this strange behaviour Thanks The MAC layer is integrated into the chipset. The PHY is a separate chip. So the Ethernet would be considered "Nvidia" in some sense. The RealTek part is just the PHY. The driver will come from Nvidia. (There may be different versions of the board, and the above info is what I found by looking at the manual.) The Ethernet driver is part of the chipset package, which is why one of the downloads from Biostar is 33MB. In the Nvidia Forums, I see mention of a build-in firewall in the Nvidia Ethernet implementation. And something called NAM (Nvidia Access Manager). Perhaps the issues have something to do with the implementation of the LAN. Maybe a separate PCI LAN card will cause less grief than debugging further. One thing you might check, in the "busted" case, is whether the hardware has a MAC address or not. My Nforce2 board, had a funny feature where the MAC address could be burned into the BIOS via the BIOS flash program. And some people managed to delete their MAC address (it is supposed to be unique, and on my motherboard, the proper MAC address is printed on an adhesive label stuck to the board). By using the value printed on the label, and the flasher program, it was possible to put it back again. http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=150240 In that article, they claim "ipconfig /all" in a DOS box, will report the MAC (physical) address. I see a total of 12 digit reported, as in xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx. Paul |
#10
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CMOS changes and blocks network start
Un-install SP3 and re-install SP2. SP3 is basically a beta version that
never really worked right; and will probably never work right since Vistas release. I've had several friends with similar problems that all were corrected by reverting back to SP2. Good luck. -- Mike Moreland Integrated Secure "Paul" wrote: Steve Garry wrote: Xp Pro, SP3, and fully patched, machine will not see network on cold boot. it's one of 4 on my local network, the other 3 are fine. System details OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600 OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation System Name AMD-2 System Manufacturer NVIDIA System Model AWRDACPI System Type X86-based PC Processor x86 Family 15 Model 44 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~1808 Mhz BIOS Version/Date Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG, 26/08/2005 SMBIOS Version 2.3 Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32 Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1 Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)" User Name xxxxxxxxxxxxx Time Zone GMT Standard Time Total Physical Memory 4,096.00 MB Available Physical Memory 1.60 GB Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB Page File Space 3.85 GB Page File C:\pagefile.sys AMD Have spent a LOT of time investigating, including a clean reinstall of XP only, with format of HDD also, which did allow it to work initially. After discovering that the problem wasn't cleared, I have also tried a different power supply, and changed the CMOS battery. The BIOS was also flashed to the latest level, not without some problems due to flash revision levels, but as far as I can tell, it is all correct. My suspicion is that something in a recent change of XP is corrupting the CMOS, if I power down completely, remove CMOS battery, and then clear CMOS, on restart, after loading defaults and setting date/time and specific configuration options, it works 100%. Warm boot, restarts, all fine. Cold boot, and I have to reset the CMOS again. I've since discovered that just restoring the defaults on startup will allow it to work now, which may be related to the flash not having defaults loaded. There's no indication of any errors in the CMOS checksum at startup, and no other issues that I am aware of, and as far as I can see, the only thing left is that somehow, XP is doing something to a CMOS setting that is preventing the network from working after the next cold boot. No applications other than XP have been run, and the machine is protected from intrusion by an external firewall, so there should not be anything nasty there. I am trying to find a utility that will allow me to dump and examine the CMOS contents, so that I can try and pin this down, but I've not found one yet. I want to see if CMOS changes in areas other than date and time between boots, as that may give a clue as to what's going on. This has me well baffled, I've been around hardware for a very long time, but never seen a problem that's this specific and repeatable in this way. Looking for hints, suggestions or ideas of what may be causing this strange behaviour Thanks The MAC layer is integrated into the chipset. The PHY is a separate chip. So the Ethernet would be considered "Nvidia" in some sense. The RealTek part is just the PHY. The driver will come from Nvidia. (There may be different versions of the board, and the above info is what I found by looking at the manual.) The Ethernet driver is part of the chipset package, which is why one of the downloads from Biostar is 33MB. In the Nvidia Forums, I see mention of a build-in firewall in the Nvidia Ethernet implementation. And something called NAM (Nvidia Access Manager). Perhaps the issues have something to do with the implementation of the LAN. Maybe a separate PCI LAN card will cause less grief than debugging further. One thing you might check, in the "busted" case, is whether the hardware has a MAC address or not. My Nforce2 board, had a funny feature where the MAC address could be burned into the BIOS via the BIOS flash program. And some people managed to delete their MAC address (it is supposed to be unique, and on my motherboard, the proper MAC address is printed on an adhesive label stuck to the board). By using the value printed on the label, and the flasher program, it was possible to put it back again. http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=150240 In that article, they claim "ipconfig /all" in a DOS box, will report the MAC (physical) address. I see a total of 12 digit reported, as in xx-xx-xx-xx-xx-xx. Paul |
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