New group member here

Yes, I too feel it 'necessary' in a way to have any OS I claim to be fluent
in going at any point. If a question comes up it's much easier to go
straight to the horse's mouth and be sure than to try to guess or recall
from memory.

I haven't lucked out and gotten any dual core 'junk' yet, but as hardware
gets better each passing day I'll keep scrounging around the thrift stores
and eventually something will appear.

Unfortunately all of my local independent parts stores have closed due to
the economy, along with CompUSA and Circuit City, and all I am left with is
Best Buy so no more Saturday afternoon bargain huntings on the repackaged
barebones in shrinkwrap.

Chris

"philo" wrote in message
...

"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...
Chris McVey wrote:
Just wanted to say hello.

I have been working on/playing with computers since I was 12, I'm
31 now, and have experience in all Win variants through XP Pro and
Server 2003. I have minimal experience with Vista as I refuse to
purchase new hardware 'til these beasts die off.

I look forward to learning something and hopefully contributing
what I can.

Welcome to the newsgroups.

For testing out things like Vista - perhaps Virtual Machines? VirtualBox
is free...


I am a bit of an experimenter myself and find that when I need to give
advice
to others, I find that it's often best for me to actually boot to the OS
in question.

I feel obligated to have an installation (on removable HD's) of all the
operating systems
I can get my hands on...so even though I do not use Vista myself,
I did have to give it a try.

None of my machines (all built from junkbox parts) could run it...
until recently a dual core CPU found it's way into my spare parts bin.

I was able to find a cheap mobo (it was an open-box special)
and now I finally have a machine that can run it.

Though I've had problems with it,
I see no possible reason for choosing it over XP.


Anyway, now that Win7 is almost here,
I decided to upgrade a few of my old Win2k machines to XP...
just added a little RAM and the machines seem to run better than ever.

But still have a Win2k machine or two in my work area.

"philo" wrote in message
...

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:20:52 -0600, "philo" wrote:


My memory has faded a bit...


You too, huh? ;-)


but I took my first computer course in 1968. The school had an IBM-360
as I
recall.


The 360 came out around 1964 or 1965 (roughly; if my memory is wrong,
it's only by a year or two).

By 1968, it was very likely to be a 360.


Though my memory tells me it was a vacuum tube machine...


Nope.


according to Wikipedia it was transistors.


Right. All 360s were transistors, and by 1968, IBM was no longer
making any vacuum tube computers.


What really upset me was that we had to use punch cards!
I hated that so much I stayed away from computers for a good long time...
but gave it a try again in the late 70's but *still* had to use punch
cards.
By 1982, when IBM came out with the PC and the whole world turned to
computers...
I got out completely...and never touched on again until 1999.
Finally, no punch cards!!! G

(A lot better)

Punch cards do have the advantage that there is no doubt about whether there
is any content on the card or not...

I did spend a little time with DEC's Paper Tape Operating System. I told my
boss that if this is what programming uses, programming is not for me.
Fortunately, they also had a PDP-11/45 which had a disk based OS. So, I
didn't need to follow through on my threat.

I barely remember that the 7094 was the first IBM to quit using vacuum
tubes. For a time all of the surplus electronic places were full of vacuum
tube rectifiers.

Jim

"Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote
in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:26:46 -0500, "Chris
McVey"
wrote:

Just wanted to say hello.

I have been working on/playing with computers
since I
was 12, I'm 31 now,


I've been working with computers since I was
24, and I'm
71 now.

Aha!

then you probably know what a 5963 tube is G


Welcome to the newsgroup.


and have experience in all Win variants
through XP Pro
and Server 2003. I have minimal experience
with Vista
as I refuse to purchase new hardware 'til
these beasts die off.

I look forward to learning something and
hopefully
contributing what I can.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop
Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

lol, I do! In fact, I have one sitting on the
other desk, encased in resin that someone gave me;
it's an award of some kind for an end-production
run at that plant. Each employee got one. It
has an LED array under it that flashes different
colors and looks pretty in the dark. lol, Being
rather old, the LEDs are absolutely HUGE!
Still got a box of power tubes out in the
garage in a box; mostly 12A7's I think.
Ahh, mammaries; err, memories.

Cheers,

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:29:51 -0600, "Jim" wrote:


I barely remember that the 7094 was the first IBM to quit using vacuum
tubes.


Although I never worked on either one, I thought the 7090 didn't have
vacuum tubes either.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"Jim" wrote in message
...

"philo" wrote in message
...

"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:20:52 -0600, "philo" wrote:


My memory has faded a bit...


You too, huh? ;-)


but I took my first computer course in 1968. The school had an IBM-360
as I
recall.


The 360 came out around 1964 or 1965 (roughly; if my memory is wrong,
it's only by a year or two).

By 1968, it was very likely to be a 360.


Though my memory tells me it was a vacuum tube machine...


Nope.


according to Wikipedia it was transistors.


Right. All 360s were transistors, and by 1968, IBM was no longer
making any vacuum tube computers.


What really upset me was that we had to use punch cards!
I hated that so much I stayed away from computers for a good long time...
but gave it a try again in the late 70's but *still* had to use punch
cards.
By 1982, when IBM came out with the PC and the whole world turned to
computers...
I got out completely...and never touched on again until 1999.
Finally, no punch cards!!! G

(A lot better)

Punch cards do have the advantage that there is no doubt about whether
there is any content on the card or not...

I did spend a little time with DEC's Paper Tape Operating System. I told
my boss that if this is what programming uses, programming is not for me.
Fortunately, they also had a PDP-11/45 which had a disk based OS. So, I
didn't need to follow through on my threat.

I barely remember that the 7094 was the first IBM to quit using vacuum
tubes. For a time all of the surplus electronic places were full of
vacuum tube rectifiers.

Jim


Well, back in high school we used to use those cheap , surplus computer
tubes in our ham radio modulators.
the 5963 was avail for just pennies and was a great substitute for the 12AX7
dual triode.
I actually preferred the 5963.

As to punch cards though, here is was 1968, we were about to put a man on
the moon...
and computers still used punch cards...It seemed unbelievably crude.
Of course there was *one* actual terminal on campus but that was for the
upper classmen only.
BTW: For any of the younger generation here...a terminal was not a CRT but a
teletype machine

"Twayne" wrote in message
...
"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote
in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:26:46 -0500, "Chris McVey"
wrote:

Just wanted to say hello.

I have been working on/playing with computers since I
was 12, I'm 31 now,


I've been working with computers since I was 24, and I'm
71 now.

Aha!

then you probably know what a 5963 tube is G


Welcome to the newsgroup.


and have experience in all Win variants through XP Pro
and Server 2003. I have minimal experience with Vista
as I refuse to purchase new hardware 'til
these beasts die off.

I look forward to learning something and hopefully
contributing what I can.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

lol, I do! In fact, I have one sitting on the other desk, encased in
resin that someone gave me; it's an award of some kind for an
end-production run at that plant. Each employee got one. It has an LED
array under it that flashes different colors and looks pretty in the dark.
lol, Being rather old, the LEDs are absolutely HUGE!
Still got a box of power tubes out in the garage in a box; mostly
12A7's I think.
Ahh, mammaries; err, memories.

Cheers,




Well my 5963's are up in the attic somewhere...

IIRC they were Tung-Sol's

However, right near my desk I have a George A Philbrick dual flip-flop
(Model GAP/R K2-W)
it has two 12AX7's in it and was from an early computer lab at the
University of Wisconsin.

"CWMcVey" helpatgbtyteamdotcom wrote in message
...
Yes, I too feel it 'necessary' in a way to have any OS I claim to be
fluent in going at any point. If a question comes up it's much easier to
go straight to the horse's mouth and be sure than to try to guess or
recall from memory.

I haven't lucked out and gotten any dual core 'junk' yet, but as hardware
gets better each passing day I'll keep scrounging around the thrift stores
and eventually something will appear.

Unfortunately all of my local independent parts stores have closed due to
the economy, along with CompUSA and Circuit City, and all I am left with
is Best Buy so no more Saturday afternoon bargain huntings on the
repackaged barebones in shrinkwrap.

Chris




Yes, there are few computer bargain stores left
but I use NewEgg now.
The "open box" special mobo I bought was very cheap
and it still had a 15 day return policy on it so I figured that it was not
too much of a gamble.

As it turned out, it had a bad cmos battery
but was otherwise in perfect condition. The dead battery may have been the
reason it was returned.

Anyway,
everyone I know now saves their old computers for me...
and I never know what's going to appear next.
One day I'll get a P1
a week later I might get an AMD XP-2500+


I just put together a machine for a friend of mine who is a very serious
photographer
and he creates very large montages. He needed a machine that could hold five
internal drives and I have a very large case
from an old Gateway Pentium -1...it could easily hold five drives.
Best thing...it was an ATX formfactor
so I took the XP-2500+, and put the mobo from it in the P-1 case...
As a matter of fact, my dual core machine is also built into one of those
nice Gateway towers.
originally a 90mhz P1 G
"philo" wrote in message
...

"Shenan Stanley" wrote in message
...
Chris McVey wrote:
Just wanted to say hello.

I have been working on/playing with computers since I was 12, I'm
31 now, and have experience in all Win variants through XP Pro and
Server 2003. I have minimal experience with Vista as I refuse to
purchase new hardware 'til these beasts die off.

I look forward to learning something and hopefully contributing
what I can.

Welcome to the newsgroups.

For testing out things like Vista - perhaps Virtual Machines?
VirtualBox is free...


I am a bit of an experimenter myself and find that when I need to give
advice
to others, I find that it's often best for me to actually boot to the OS
in question.

I feel obligated to have an installation (on removable HD's) of all the
operating systems
I can get my hands on...so even though I do not use Vista myself,
I did have to give it a try.

None of my machines (all built from junkbox parts) could run it...
until recently a dual core CPU found it's way into my spare parts bin.

I was able to find a cheap mobo (it was an open-box special)
and now I finally have a machine that can run it.

Though I've had problems with it,
I see no possible reason for choosing it over XP.


Anyway, now that Win7 is almost here,
I decided to upgrade a few of my old Win2k machines to XP...
just added a little RAM and the machines seem to run better than ever.

But still have a Win2k machine or two in my work area.

"Jim" wrote in message
...

"philo" wrote in message
...

"Ken Blake, MVP"

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:20:52 -0600, "philo"
wrote:
My memory has faded a bit...


You too, huh? ;-)


but I took my first computer course in 1968.
The
school had an IBM-360 as I
recall.


The 360 came out around 1964 or 1965
(roughly; if my
memory is wrong, it's only by a year or two).

By 1968, it was very likely to be a 360.


Though my memory tells me it was a vacuum
tube
machine...


Nope.


according to Wikipedia it was transistors.


Right. All 360s were transistors, and by
1968, IBM was
no longer making any vacuum tube computers.


What really upset me was that we had to use
punch cards!
I hated that so much I stayed away from
computers for a
good long time... but gave it a try again in
the late
70's but *still* had to use punch cards.
By 1982, when IBM came out with the PC and the
whole
world turned to computers...
I got out completely...and never touched on
again until
1999. Finally, no punch cards!!! G

(A lot better)

Punch cards do have the advantage that there is
no doubt
about whether there is any content on the card
or not...

I did spend a little time with DEC's Paper Tape
Operating System. I told my boss that if this
is what
programming uses, programming is not for me.
Fortunately, they also had a PDP-11/45 which
had a disk
based OS. So, I didn't need to follow through
on my
threat. I barely remember that the 7094 was
the first IBM to
quit using vacuum tubes. For a time all of the
surplus
electronic places were full of vacuum tube
rectifiers.

Jim


Well, back in high school we used to use those
cheap ,
surplus computer tubes in our ham radio
modulators.
the 5963 was avail for just pennies and was a
great
substitute for the 12AX7 dual triode.
I actually preferred the 5963.

As to punch cards though, here is was 1968, we
were about
to put a man on the moon...
and computers still used punch cards...It seemed
unbelievably crude. Of course there was *one*
actual terminal on campus but
that was for the upper classmen only.
BTW: For any of the younger generation here...a
terminal
was not a CRT but a teletype machine

Oof! I forgot that little pointg. The first
CRT terminals were almost exactly that and not
much mo Just a CRT and a keyboard connection.
Remember those huge, heavy Wyse terminals? They
were built like tanks!

A terminal is a terminal except when ... g

"Twayne" wrote in
message
...
"Ken Blake, MVP"

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:26:46 -0500, "Chris
McVey"
wrote:

Just wanted to say hello.

I have been working on/playing with
computers since I
was 12, I'm 31 now,


I've been working with computers since I was
24, and
I'm 71 now.

Aha!

then you probably know what a 5963 tube is
G


Welcome to the newsgroup.


and have experience in all Win variants
through XP Pro
and Server 2003. I have minimal experience
with Vista
as I refuse to purchase new hardware 'til
these beasts die off.

I look forward to learning something and
hopefully
contributing what I can.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop
Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

lol, I do! In fact, I have one sitting on the
other
desk, encased in resin that someone gave me;
it's an
award of some kind for an end-production run at
that
plant. Each employee got one. It has an LED
array
under it that flashes different colors and
looks pretty
in the dark. lol, Being rather old, the LEDs
are
absolutely HUGE! Still got a box of power tubes
out in
the garage in a box; mostly 12A7's I think.
Ahh, mammaries; err, memories.

Cheers,




Well my 5963's are up in the attic somewhere...

IIRC they were Tung-Sol's

However, right near my desk I have a George A
Philbrick
dual flip-flop (Model GAP/R K2-W)
it has two 12AX7's in it and was from an early
computer
lab at the University of Wisconsin.

I recall in school when "digital" computing was
just making its debut to the "masses". We built
tons and tons of analog computers but just a
smattering of digital computers, since there was
"nothing to them of much interest". lol!

Jim wrote:
..
Punch cards do have the advantage that there is no doubt about
whether there is any content on the card or not...

Except when a chad is hanging (recent US election).

"Twayne" wrote in message
...
"Twayne" wrote in message
...
"Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:26:46 -0500, "Chris McVey"
wrote:

Just wanted to say hello.

I have been working on/playing with computers since I
was 12, I'm 31 now,


I've been working with computers since I was 24, and
I'm 71 now.

Aha!

then you probably know what a 5963 tube is G


Welcome to the newsgroup.


and have experience in all Win variants through XP Pro
and Server 2003. I have minimal experience with Vista
as I refuse to purchase new hardware 'til
these beasts die off.

I look forward to learning something and hopefully
contributing what I can.


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

lol, I do! In fact, I have one sitting on the other
desk, encased in resin that someone gave me; it's an
award of some kind for an end-production run at that
plant. Each employee got one. It has an LED array
under it that flashes different colors and looks pretty
in the dark. lol, Being rather old, the LEDs are
absolutely HUGE! Still got a box of power tubes out in
the garage in a box; mostly 12A7's I think. Ahh, mammaries; err,
memories.

Cheers,




Well my 5963's are up in the attic somewhere...

IIRC they were Tung-Sol's

However, right near my desk I have a George A Philbrick
dual flip-flop (Model GAP/R K2-W)
it has two 12AX7's in it and was from an early computer
lab at the University of Wisconsin.

I recall in school when "digital" computing was just making its debut to
the "masses". We built tons and tons of analog computers but just a
smattering of digital computers, since there was "nothing to them of much
interest". lol!



When I was in school I did take an analog computer course...
partway through the class we were informed that our class was the last
analog computer course ever being taught by the university...
as in the future all analog calculations would be simulated on a digital
computer.

I though, what the hell?
One more useless course to take, why did they not tell us on the first day
of class
so we could drop it and take something else?

However, now I'm glad I took it...

just like riding a street car in my city back in 1958 (or so)
on the very last day they ran G

"Twayne" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
...

"philo" wrote in message
...

"Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:20:52 -0600, "philo"
wrote:
My memory has faded a bit...


You too, huh? ;-)


but I took my first computer course in 1968. The
school had an IBM-360 as I
recall.


The 360 came out around 1964 or 1965 (roughly; if my
memory is wrong, it's only by a year or two).

By 1968, it was very likely to be a 360.


Though my memory tells me it was a vacuum tube
machine...


Nope.


according to Wikipedia it was transistors.


Right. All 360s were transistors, and by 1968, IBM was
no longer making any vacuum tube computers.


What really upset me was that we had to use punch cards!
I hated that so much I stayed away from computers for a
good long time... but gave it a try again in the late
70's but *still* had to use punch cards.
By 1982, when IBM came out with the PC and the whole
world turned to computers...
I got out completely...and never touched on again until
1999. Finally, no punch cards!!! G

(A lot better)

Punch cards do have the advantage that there is no doubt
about whether there is any content on the card or not...

I did spend a little time with DEC's Paper Tape
Operating System. I told my boss that if this is what
programming uses, programming is not for me.
Fortunately, they also had a PDP-11/45 which had a disk
based OS. So, I didn't need to follow through on my
threat. I barely remember that the 7094 was the first IBM to
quit using vacuum tubes. For a time all of the surplus
electronic places were full of vacuum tube rectifiers.

Jim


Well, back in high school we used to use those cheap ,
surplus computer tubes in our ham radio modulators.
the 5963 was avail for just pennies and was a great
substitute for the 12AX7 dual triode.
I actually preferred the 5963.

As to punch cards though, here is was 1968, we were about
to put a man on the moon...
and computers still used punch cards...It seemed
unbelievably crude. Of course there was *one* actual terminal on campus
but
that was for the upper classmen only.
BTW: For any of the younger generation here...a terminal
was not a CRT but a teletype machine

Oof! I forgot that little pointg. The first CRT terminals were almost
exactly that and not much mo Just a CRT and a keyboard connection.
Remember those huge, heavy Wyse terminals? They were built like tanks!

A terminal is a terminal except when ... g


I only vaguely recall those first CRT's

but I do still have an EGA monitor here up in the attic...
it's *very* heavy.
Why I put it up there rather than take it in for recycling...
I'll never know G

"Twayne" wrote in
message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
...

"philo" wrote in message
...

"Ken Blake, MVP"

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:20:52 -0600, "philo"
wrote:
My memory has faded a bit...


You too, huh? ;-)


but I took my first computer course in
1968. The
school had an IBM-360 as I
recall.


The 360 came out around 1964 or 1965
(roughly; if my
memory is wrong, it's only by a year or
two).

By 1968, it was very likely to be a 360.


Though my memory tells me it was a vacuum
tube
machine...


Nope.


according to Wikipedia it was transistors.


Right. All 360s were transistors, and by
1968, IBM
was no longer making any vacuum tube
computers.


What really upset me was that we had to use
punch
cards! I hated that so much I stayed away
from
computers for a good long time... but gave
it a try
again in the late 70's but *still* had to
use punch
cards. By 1982, when IBM came out with the
PC and the whole
world turned to computers...
I got out completely...and never touched on
again
until 1999. Finally, no punch cards!!! G

(A lot better)

Punch cards do have the advantage that there
is no
doubt about whether there is any content on
the card
or not... I did spend a little time with
DEC's Paper Tape
Operating System. I told my boss that if
this is what
programming uses, programming is not for me.
Fortunately, they also had a PDP-11/45 which
had a disk
based OS. So, I didn't need to follow
through on my
threat. I barely remember that the 7094 was
the first
IBM to quit using vacuum tubes. For a time
all of the
surplus electronic places were full of vacuum
tube
rectifiers. Jim


Well, back in high school we used to use those
cheap ,
surplus computer tubes in our ham radio
modulators.
the 5963 was avail for just pennies and was a
great
substitute for the 12AX7 dual triode.
I actually preferred the 5963.

As to punch cards though, here is was 1968, we
were
about to put a man on the moon...
and computers still used punch cards...It
seemed
unbelievably crude. Of course there was *one*
actual
terminal on campus but
that was for the upper classmen only.
BTW: For any of the younger generation
here...a terminal
was not a CRT but a teletype machine

Oof! I forgot that little pointg. The first
CRT
terminals were almost exactly that and not much
mo
Just a CRT and a keyboard connection. Remember
those
huge, heavy Wyse terminals? They were built
like tanks! A terminal is a terminal except
when ... g


I only vaguely recall those first CRT's

but I do still have an EGA monitor here up in
the attic...
it's *very* heavy.
Why I put it up there rather than take it in for
recycling... I'll never know G

You were testing the wall under to see if it was a
load bearing wall? :^}

Twayne wrote:
"Twayne" wrote in
message
...
"Jim" wrote in message
...
"philo" wrote in message
...
"Ken Blake, MVP"

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:20:52 -0600, "philo"
wrote:
My memory has faded a bit...

You too, huh? ;-)


but I took my first computer course in
1968. The
school had an IBM-360 as I
recall.

The 360 came out around 1964 or 1965
(roughly; if my
memory is wrong, it's only by a year or
two).

By 1968, it was very likely to be a 360.


Though my memory tells me it was a vacuum
tube
machine...

Nope.


according to Wikipedia it was transistors.

Right. All 360s were transistors, and by
1968, IBM
was no longer making any vacuum tube
computers.

What really upset me was that we had to use
punch
cards! I hated that so much I stayed away
from
computers for a good long time... but gave
it a try
again in the late 70's but *still* had to
use punch
cards. By 1982, when IBM came out with the
PC and the whole
world turned to computers...
I got out completely...and never touched on
again
until 1999. Finally, no punch cards!!! G

(A lot better)

Punch cards do have the advantage that there
is no
doubt about whether there is any content on
the card
or not... I did spend a little time with
DEC's Paper Tape
Operating System. I told my boss that if
this is what
programming uses, programming is not for me.
Fortunately, they also had a PDP-11/45 which
had a disk
based OS. So, I didn't need to follow
through on my
threat. I barely remember that the 7094 was
the first
IBM to quit using vacuum tubes. For a time
all of the
surplus electronic places were full of vacuum
tube
rectifiers. Jim

Well, back in high school we used to use those
cheap ,
surplus computer tubes in our ham radio
modulators.
the 5963 was avail for just pennies and was a
great
substitute for the 12AX7 dual triode.
I actually preferred the 5963.

As to punch cards though, here is was 1968, we
were
about to put a man on the moon...
and computers still used punch cards...It
seemed
unbelievably crude. Of course there was *one*
actual
terminal on campus but
that was for the upper classmen only.
BTW: For any of the younger generation
here...a terminal
was not a CRT but a teletype machine
Oof! I forgot that little pointg. The first
CRT
terminals were almost exactly that and not much
mo
Just a CRT and a keyboard connection. Remember
those
huge, heavy Wyse terminals? They were built
like tanks! A terminal is a terminal except
when ... g

I only vaguely recall those first CRT's

but I do still have an EGA monitor here up in
the attic...
it's *very* heavy.
Why I put it up there rather than take it in for
recycling... I'll never know G

You were testing the wall under to see if it was a
load bearing wall? :^}



I hear that vacuum tubes have a high R- value!-)