M$ drops support for security essentials in xp

On 01/10/2014 12:41 PM, BillW50 wrote:


snip


n't have to worry about XP fading away here anytime soon. ;-)

I have more XP machines that I will ever use.

Yup me too. Lots of sizes and shapes.

I have been thinning out my collection but I have at least one each of
everything going all the way back to the 8088 and even before...
such as a Kaypro.

I thought about getting a Kaypro back then, but I went the Osborne
Executive route instead. I still have it today somewhere. Although a
friend of mine had a Kaypro II and I know that one very much. I also
have an Epson PX-8 CP/M 2.2 laptop which boots in 1.5 seconds. I also
have Timex Sinclair's, and lots of Commodores too. C=128 were my
favorite Commodore. Very slow for running CP/M though.

The Kaypro I have was given to me by a friend. He said it belonged to
his father. The company I worked for was at one time an NLS distributor
and I still had my price sheets and showed him how much a Kaypro cost
new (it had a ten meg HD ). I can't recall the price but I know it was a
few thousand dollars.

My friend then said" Now I know why my mother got so mad."


My favorite machine is a Zenith Data Systems 286

I got an after market ISA, RAM extension card from a 386
that works in the Zenith and I have 16 megs of RAM in there.
That's the maximum a 286 can address.

It came with 512k of discrete memory chips.

Though at the time a 286 was manufactured it would not have been
impossible to have 16 megs of RAM...to buy enough discrete memory chips
to come up with 16 megs probably would have cost $50k I'd guess.

Oh I wasn't that far ahead back then. For DOS, I was using a Sharp
PC-4501 laptop. It used a V20 processor and was fully XT compatible and
partly 286 compatible. I maxed that thing out and normally used an
external CGA color monitor with it. By '93, I went the 486 route and got
into Windows 3.1 and OS/2.




Well all my stuff I got "after the fact" The last computer I actually
owned prior to 1999 was a TI-99/4

On 1/10/2014 5:35 AM, philo wrote:
We usually go there in the winter of course but have been out a few
times in the summer. When I was in the Army I was stationed in the
desert so can handle dry heat pretty well...but that 120 degree temp is
over my limit. One nice thing though...when I do sit out there, my
coffee never seems to cool down!

BTW: I live in Milwaukee and on a humid day I can barely tolerate 85.

I am with you. My ancestors are from the far north (so cold is in my
genes). I did move to HI, AZ, and SC in the past. I lived in each state
for 2 years (yup, for 6 years I lived in warmer climates). But I had
enough and moved back to the far north again. ;-)

I don't get it why some hate the cold and love the heat? In the cold,
you can always put on more and more clothes to stay warm. In the 120
degree heat though, you could strip naked and it still isn't going to
help. :-(

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Pro

On 01/10/2014 01:32 PM, BillW50 wrote:
X
I am with you. My ancestors are from the far north (so cold is in my
genes). I did move to HI, AZ, and SC in the past. I lived in each state
for 2 years (yup, for 6 years I lived in warmer climates). But I had
enough and moved back to the far north again. ;-)

I don't get it why some hate the cold and love the heat? In the cold,
you can always put on more and more clothes to stay warm. In the 120
degree heat though, you could strip naked and it still isn't going to
help. :-(




I've known my wife for almost 20 years and have only seen her mad three
times...and this last spell of cold weather was one of them.

What really got her mad was my "good attitude" toward cold weather.


She does understand my aversion to extreme heat and may some day
convince me to move to New Mexico....I am pretty hard to move though.


I am eventually going to get tired of shoveling snow.

On 01/10/2014 10:51 AM, Todd wrote:
On 01/09/2014 01:46 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
I also started out in the punched card days

I remember those days too. I hated the things




So did I. In 1967 I started college at MSOE and could just not wait to
get into computer programming...but it was so frustrating I just hated it.

Even after I graduated, got a job and went back to school in the late
70's...though there were terminals...punch cards were still the norm.



I really liked that Ti-99/4 . I did more on that in an hour than a week
using the punch cards.

On 1/9/2014 4:00 PM, Good Guy wrote:
On 09/01/2014 00:30, BillW50 wrote:
I don't see any big deal myself. As I still have two Windows 3.1, one
Windows 98, and two Windows 2000 machines and they are still doing just
fine.

what can you do on Windows 3.1 these days? Are you still using
Wordprefect for DOS and Lotus 1-2-3 on it? There isn't much you can do
on it. I doubt if you can get online on it because dial=up is already
out in the UK. BT have stopped their dial-up service.

Naw... I mainly use them for entertainment and a refresher course. They
operated so different than today's computers, it is fun to see if I
could do with them as I once did. And it is a really funny feeling, much
like riding a bicycle again in decades. As there is a minute or two at
first everything seems really strange. Then something remarkable happens
and you suddenly recall almost everything you knew before about it. Then
the fascination kicks in and you just experience hours of wow! One is
the dang hardware still works being 30+ years old. And the other you can
still use the silly thing.

Putting them to practical use today? Yes, I suppose you could use them
for a small number of tasks. Online probably wouldn't be one of them. I
don't like them for what they can do for me today, but more for what
they could do for me back then.

Dialup? I do have one free Netzero account (the free account is ad
based) and the last time I checked like a year ago still works. I save
that one for an emergency access to the Internet if modern methods
suddenly fail. I think I actually resorted to it twice in 10 years. I
also have a lifetime account with AOL (I made the deal with them long
before they were known as AOL) and they might still have dialup service
as an option too.

--
Bill
Dell Latitute Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Pro

On 1/10/2014 3:03 PM, philo wrote:
On 01/10/2014 01:32 PM, BillW50 wrote:
X
I am with you. My ancestors are from the far north (so cold is in my
genes). I did move to HI, AZ, and SC in the past. I lived in each state
for 2 years (yup, for 6 years I lived in warmer climates). But I had
enough and moved back to the far north again. ;-)

I don't get it why some hate the cold and love the heat? In the cold,
you can always put on more and more clothes to stay warm. In the 120
degree heat though, you could strip naked and it still isn't going to
help. :-(




I've known my wife for almost 20 years and have only seen her mad three times...and this last spell of cold weather was one of them.

What really got her mad was my "good attitude" toward cold weather.


She does understand my aversion to extreme heat and may some day convince me to move to New Mexico....I am pretty hard to move though.


I am eventually going to get tired of shoveling snow.

All you need to see, is how other people live, and then
you realize your snow shoveling isn't all that bad.

http://knlive.ctvnews.ca/snow-buries...ower-1.1619889

That isn't unusual for Newfoundland. I've heard tales before
about snow covering doorways there. The only thing that makes
it bearable, is not all the exits have that much snow piled in
front of them at the same time. But on occasion, people leave
the house via a window, to start the shoveling process. Your
wife would love a story like that :-)

Paul

On 1/9/2014 1:54 PM, philo wrote:
they sure don't make them like that anymore!

Oh I don't know about that? Computers from the 70's and 80's of mine
anyway still work just like they did back then. The 90's was a horrible
decade for hardware lasting for me. Lots of mine couldn't last 5 years
(although a few did). And the beginning of 2000's was also tough for
long lasting. Then I ran through a stretch between 2005 to 2009 that
seems like they will make it for decades. Although I don't know if sure
yet obviously.

Then 2010+ it is too soon to tell. Like this Dell Latitude Slate Tablet
seems really rugged. As I am pretty sure I could take it and throw it
like a Frisbee while it is running and I don't think anything would
happen to it in a paved parking lot. It looks beautiful. The screen is
beautiful and the backlight is LED. The screen is made from Corning
Gorilla Glass and after a year of use there is no scratches or anything.
Although I could imagine that either a sharp diamond or a 10lb sledge
hammer could totally do it in. But I don't think I would call it a sure
bet or anything.

Don't think for a second that I am indorsing these things. Sure the
screen is really tough. Sure the casing is really rough. Sure there are
no fans nor vent holes. Sure you could set them on the bed and wrap them
in a blanket and not worry about overheating. All of that is just fine
and good.

The huge problem is that it is so underpowered it is horrible. Although
XP or under should be satisfactory on this machine. Although I never
heard of anybody doing so and I gave it a shot and ran into the SATA
driver problem. Sure I think I could get through that problem, but there
is no other XP drivers for this hardware anyway. Sure I could write my
own (lots of work without documentation). It is just better to buy cheap
and to buy often.

So is all modern stuff unreliable for the long haul? I don't think so.
Some won't last long for sure. But some will last past a lifetime. Also
remember some of the stuff from the past was really unreliable.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Pro

On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:08:14 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 01/10/2014 10:51 AM, Todd wrote:
On 01/09/2014 01:46 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
I also started out in the punched card days

I remember those days too. I hated the things




So did I. In 1967 I started college at MSOE and could just not wait to
get into computer programming...



You're a youngster! :-) I started college in 1955. In 1967 I started
my third programming job (actually I was managing programmers by then,
and doing very little myself).

On 01/10/2014 03:13 PM, Paul wrote:


All you need to see, is how other people live, and then
you realize your snow shoveling isn't all that bad.

http://knlive.ctvnews.ca/snow-buries...ower-1.1619889


That isn't unusual for Newfoundland. I've heard tales before
about snow covering doorways there. The only thing that makes
it bearable, is not all the exits have that much snow piled in
front of them at the same time. But on occasion, people leave
the house via a window, to start the shoveling process. Your
wife would love a story like that :-)

Paul




Thanks for the link...

Things look rather tropical here now!

On 01/10/2014 05:59 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:


You're a youngster! :-) I started college in 1955. In 1967 I started
my third programming job (actually I was managing programmers by then,
and doing very little myself).



1955 was a great year. My dad bought a new Chevy that year!


The place where I worked hired a programmer part time.
He was retired but started in 1948.

Later they hired a kid who "talked it up" to the boss
and he was put in charge. He completely screwed everything up and got fired.


I asked the old timer why he allowed something like that to happen.

He just smiled and said that he wanted to pick up a bit more income.

On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:31:19 -0600, philo* wrote:


The place where I worked hired a programmer part time.
He was retired but started in 1948.


What did he program in 1948? There were very few computers then.

On 01/11/2014 09:20 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:31:19 -0600, philo wrote:


The place where I worked hired a programmer part time.
He was retired but started in 1948.


What did he program in 1948? There were very few computers then.




He worked for Oscar Meyer

I don't know the details but he told me that they used a pickup truck to
transfer the data (punch cards) from the Milwaukee to their main
location in Madison, WI


He also said that he'd run a pencil across the stacks of cards and make
a diagonal line in case someone dropped a stack...to facilitate
re-ordering them.


Probably their daily production and possibly payroll records.
(just guessing)

On 1/11/2014 12:22 PM, philo wrote:
On 01/11/2014 09:20 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:31:19 -0600, philo wrote:


The place where I worked hired a programmer part time.
He was retired but started in 1948.


What did he program in 1948? There were very few computers then.




He worked for Oscar Meyer

I don't know the details but he told me that they used a pickup truck to transfer the data (punch cards) from the Milwaukee to their main location in Madison, WI


He also said that he'd run a pencil across the stacks of cards and make a diagonal line in case someone dropped a stack...to facilitate re-ordering them.


Probably their daily production and possibly payroll records.
(just guessing)

Punched cards have existed for a long time :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_loom

"Herman Hollerith took the idea of using punched cards to store
information a step further when he created a punched card
tabulating machine which was used in the 1890 U.S. Census."

So even if they don't store a computer program, they
can be used for "data analysis".

Paul

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 11:22:21 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 01/11/2014 09:20 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:31:19 -0600, philo wrote:


The place where I worked hired a programmer part time.
He was retired but started in 1948.


What did he program in 1948? There were very few computers then.




He worked for Oscar Meyer


I should have been clearer; I meant what *computer* did he program?
Very few computers had been released that far back.


I don't know the details but he told me that they used a pickup truck to
transfer the data (punch cards) from the Milwaukee to their main
location in Madison, WI


OK. If you don't know, no big deal; I was just curious.


He also said that he'd run a pencil across the stacks of cards and make
a diagonal line in case someone dropped a stack...to facilitate
re-ordering them.


Yes, that was standard practice, not just with him and with Oscar
Meyer, but with almost everybody using punched cards. And a magic
marker was more common than a pencil.

And by the way, that diagonal line didn't really facilitate reordering
them; more than anything else it simply showed you whether the deck
was still in sequence or needed fixing. If only a few cards were out
of sequence that break in the diagonal might help you reorder them
manually, but if the deck had been dropped, the way to reorder them
was to run them through a card sorter.

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 14:17:08 -0500, Paul wrote:

On 1/11/2014 12:22 PM, philo wrote:
On 01/11/2014 09:20 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:31:19 -0600, philo wrote:


The place where I worked hired a programmer part time.
He was retired but started in 1948.


What did he program in 1948? There were very few computers then.




He worked for Oscar Meyer

I don't know the details but he told me that they used a pickup truck to transfer the data (punch cards) from the Milwaukee to their main location in Madison, WI


He also said that he'd run a pencil across the stacks of cards and make a diagonal line in case someone dropped a stack...to facilitate re-ordering them.


Probably their daily production and possibly payroll records.
(just guessing)

Punched cards have existed for a long time :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_loom

"Herman Hollerith took the idea of using punched cards to store
information a step further when he created a punched card
tabulating machine which was used in the 1890 U.S. Census."

So even if they don't store a computer program, they
can be used for "data analysis".



Yes, as you say, they contained data well before they were used for
computer programs.


As I said earlier, I started programming on an IBM 1401 in 1962.
Around the time I started, the company I worked for got its first
computer. But they already had *tons* of punched cards. The cards were
used to contain data that was processed by EAM machines (IBM 402, 407,
etc.)