All MS updates since SP3??

In message , BillW50
writes:
[]
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with all of
the current updates as well. You can also throw some applications on it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install Windows,
all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special version of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP machines.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sarcasm: Barbed ire

On 1/17/2014 4:55 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50 writes:
[]
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with all of
the current updates as well. You can also throw some applications on it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install Windows,
all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special version of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP machines.

Many OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc use preactivated installs. If you
install them on machines they are meant for, they use a generic key and
it is already activated. If it isn't meant for that computer, it will
ask you for a key. Or some others may refuse to install.

But if you use a non-OEM install and you used the slipstreaming method
to install applications and updates, then you have to enter a key and
activate every install.

How Acronis and Paragon method works is by replacing the drivers with
generic drivers. And when you boot up for the first time on a different
machine, Windows will say found new hardware and replace those generic
drivers with other ones. And since the new machine is probably much
different than the original machine, thus it will trip the many hardware
change and tell you that you have to reactivate it again.

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Professional

In message , BillW50
writes:
On 1/17/2014 4:55 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50 writes:
[]
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with all of
the current updates as well. You can also throw some applications on it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install Windows,
all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special version of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP machines.

Many OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc use preactivated installs. If you
install them on machines they are meant for, they use a generic key and
it is already activated. If it isn't meant for that computer, it will
ask you for a key. Or some others may refuse to install.

But if you use a non-OEM install and you used the slipstreaming method
to install applications and updates, then you have to enter a key and
activate every install.

How Acronis and Paragon method works is by replacing the drivers with
generic drivers. And when you boot up for the first time on a different
machine, Windows will say found new hardware and replace those generic
drivers with other ones. And since the new machine is probably much
different than the original machine, thus it will trip the many
hardware change and tell you that you have to reactivate it again.

Ah, so when you said "Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s)", you meant restoring to a state that still needs
activation. I misunderstood; I'd assuming "restoring" meant to a working
state.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"The thing that impresses me most about America is the way parents obey their
children." - Duke of Windsor

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:47:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , BillW50
writes:
On 1/17/2014 4:55 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50 writes:
[]
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with all of
the current updates as well. You can also throw some applications on it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install Windows,
all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special version of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP machines.

Many OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc use preactivated installs. If you
install them on machines they are meant for, they use a generic key and
it is already activated. If it isn't meant for that computer, it will
ask you for a key. Or some others may refuse to install.

But if you use a non-OEM install and you used the slipstreaming method
to install applications and updates, then you have to enter a key and
activate every install.

How Acronis and Paragon method works is by replacing the drivers with
generic drivers. And when you boot up for the first time on a different
machine, Windows will say found new hardware and replace those generic
drivers with other ones. And since the new machine is probably much
different than the original machine, thus it will trip the many
hardware change and tell you that you have to reactivate it again.

Ah, so when you said "Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s)", you meant restoring to a state that still needs
activation. I misunderstood; I'd assuming "restoring" meant to a working
state.

If your set of computers are all the same brand and model, there
hardware will be the same as the first one and they won't need changes.
It also won't need activation if there are few hardware changes.

And if the computer models are not the same, IIRC, even with generic
drivers, the computer is in a working state. The correct driver is
usually found within XP and installed almost automatically, but if it
hasn't happened yet, or if one says No to changing the driver, IIRC,
things will work, but in some cases not as well as with the proper
driver. Especially the monitor may not have as high a resolution as it
could. If activation is required, that doesn't take long.

In message , micky
writes:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:47:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , BillW50
writes:
On 1/17/2014 4:55 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50 writes:
[]
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with all of
the current updates as well. You can also throw some applications on it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install Windows,
all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special version of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP machines.

Many OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc use preactivated installs. If you
install them on machines they are meant for, they use a generic key and
it is already activated. If it isn't meant for that computer, it will
ask you for a key. Or some others may refuse to install.

But if you use a non-OEM install and you used the slipstreaming method
to install applications and updates, then you have to enter a key and
activate every install.

How Acronis and Paragon method works is by replacing the drivers with
generic drivers. And when you boot up for the first time on a different
machine, Windows will say found new hardware and replace those generic
drivers with other ones. And since the new machine is probably much
different than the original machine, thus it will trip the many
hardware change and tell you that you have to reactivate it again.

Ah, so when you said "Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s)", you meant restoring to a state that still needs
activation. I misunderstood; I'd assuming "restoring" meant to a working
state.

If your set of computers are all the same brand and model, there
hardware will be the same as the first one and they won't need changes.
It also won't need activation if there are few hardware changes.

I clearly misunderstood "totally different computer" - you meant
different in serial number. (I guess it was the word "totally" that
threw me.)

And if the computer models are not the same, IIRC, even with generic
drivers, the computer is in a working state. The correct driver is
usually found within XP and installed almost automatically, but if it

I agree, that is my experience.

hasn't happened yet, or if one says No to changing the driver, IIRC,
things will work, but in some cases not as well as with the proper

(Is it likely to be the case that saying no to driver changes is likely
to reduce the chance of activation being needed?)

driver. Especially the monitor may not have as high a resolution as it
could. If activation is required, that doesn't take long.

If Microsoft allows it?

I've not yet heard any even hints as to how long XP activation will be
provided. It could cease on x April, of course, though I'd have thought
that if that was planned, we'd have heard at least rumours by now. Of
course, the best outcome - for users! - would be for MS to release code
for activation servers after April, but I don't expect that to happen!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Nothing is more dangerous than a boss with a spreadsheet. (Scott Adams [via
Dilbert], 1998-12-12)

In ,
J. P. Gilliver (John) typed:
In message , micky
writes:
driver. Especially the monitor may not have as high a resolution as
it could. If activation is required, that doesn't take long.

If Microsoft allows it?

I've not yet heard any even hints as to how long XP activation will be
provided. It could cease on x April, of course, though I'd have
thought that if that was planned, we'd have heard at least rumours by
now. Of course, the best outcome - for users! - would be for MS to
release code for activation servers after April, but I don't expect
that to happen!

While XP was the first Microsoft product that I could recall that
usually requires activation (some don't). But there has been other
Microsoft products since then that has been long discontinued. Yet they
still can be activated. MS Flight Simulator X is one example. And so can
be all Office versions that requires activation is another.

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM
Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005 SP2

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:30:34 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , micky
writes:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:47:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , BillW50
writes:
On 1/17/2014 4:55 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50 writes:
[]
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with all of
the current updates as well. You can also throw some applications on it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install Windows,
all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special version of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP machines.

Many OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc use preactivated installs. If you
install them on machines they are meant for, they use a generic key and
it is already activated. If it isn't meant for that computer, it will
ask you for a key. Or some others may refuse to install.

But if you use a non-OEM install and you used the slipstreaming method
to install applications and updates, then you have to enter a key and
activate every install.

How Acronis and Paragon method works is by replacing the drivers with
generic drivers. And when you boot up for the first time on a different
machine, Windows will say found new hardware and replace those generic
drivers with other ones. And since the new machine is probably much
different than the original machine, thus it will trip the many
hardware change and tell you that you have to reactivate it again.

Ah, so when you said "Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s)", you meant restoring to a state that still needs
activation. I misunderstood; I'd assuming "restoring" meant to a working
state.

If your set of computers are all the same brand and model, there
hardware will be the same as the first one and they won't need changes.
It also won't need activation if there are few hardware changes.

I clearly misunderstood "totally different computer" - you meant
different in serial number. (I guess it was the word "totally" that
threw me.)

It was BillW, not me, who wrote the posts before yours. I can't find
"totally different computer" but I took computer "much different from
the original" to mean a Dell instead of a Compaq, with different video
cards (plug-in or built-in) or different sound cards, etc, not just the
serial number. In fact if two serial numbers were 1 apart from each
other, I'd expect the machines likely to be the same.


And if the computer models are not the same, IIRC, even with generic
drivers, the computer is in a working state. The correct driver is
usually found within XP and installed almost automatically, but if it

I agree, that is my experience.

hasn't happened yet, or if one says No to changing the driver, IIRC,
things will work, but in some cases not as well as with the proper

(Is it likely to be the case that saying no to driver changes is likely
to reduce the chance of activation being needed?)

I believe so, though I have no experience doing that . What I wonder
is, if you allow one change, like the video driver, and hold off for a
few months for the next change, will it forget that that makes 2
changes, or will it keep a cumulative list and require activation at a
certain point.

driver. Especially the monitor may not have as high a resolution as it
could. If activation is required, that doesn't take long.

If Microsoft allows it?

Again I have no experience with other products, like BillW does, but I
think the whole idea of "not supporting" is exaggerated in people's
minds. I think it only means that they will not write fixes for
problems noticed in the future, not that they will keep people from
downloading fixes already written. And now that you mention it, not
that they will not permit activation. A lot of people would be angry
to learn, in many casesl, at the last minute, that they can't reactivate
their windows.

I've not yet heard any even hints as to how long XP activation will be
provided. It could cease on x April, of course, though I'd have thought
that if that was planned, we'd have heard at least rumours by now. Of

I woudl expect it to be announced by MS at the same time lack of support
was announced.

course, the best outcome - for users! - would be for MS to release code
for activation servers after April, but I don't expect that to happen!

Why would MS have to release more code? What's wrong with the code that
exists?

micky wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:30:34 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , micky
writes:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:47:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , BillW50
writes:
On 1/17/2014 4:55 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50
writes: []
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from
scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with all
of
the current updates as well. You can also throw some applications on
it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install
Windows,
all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special version
of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with
regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP
machines.

Many OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc use preactivated installs. If you
install them on machines they are meant for, they use a generic key
and
it is already activated. If it isn't meant for that computer, it will
ask you for a key. Or some others may refuse to install.

But if you use a non-OEM install and you used the slipstreaming method
to install applications and updates, then you have to enter a key and
activate every install.

How Acronis and Paragon method works is by replacing the drivers with
generic drivers. And when you boot up for the first time on a
different
machine, Windows will say found new hardware and replace those generic
drivers with other ones. And since the new machine is probably much
different than the original machine, thus it will trip the many
hardware change and tell you that you have to reactivate it again.

Ah, so when you said "Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s)", you meant restoring to a state that still needs
activation. I misunderstood; I'd assuming "restoring" meant to a
working
state.

If your set of computers are all the same brand and model, there
hardware will be the same as the first one and they won't need changes.
It also won't need activation if there are few hardware changes.

I clearly misunderstood "totally different computer" - you meant
different in serial number. (I guess it was the word "totally" that
threw me.)

It was BillW, not me, who wrote the posts before yours. I can't find
"totally different computer" but I took computer "much different from
the original" to mean a Dell instead of a Compaq, with different video
cards (plug-in or built-in) or different sound cards, etc, not just the
serial number. In fact if two serial numbers were 1 apart from each
other, I'd expect the machines likely to be the same.


And if the computer models are not the same, IIRC, even with generic
drivers, the computer is in a working state. The correct driver is
usually found within XP and installed almost automatically, but if it

I agree, that is my experience.

hasn't happened yet, or if one says No to changing the driver, IIRC,
things will work, but in some cases not as well as with the proper

(Is it likely to be the case that saying no to driver changes is likely
to reduce the chance of activation being needed?)

I believe so, though I have no experience doing that . What I wonder
is, if you allow one change, like the video driver, and hold off for a
few months for the next change, will it forget that that makes 2
changes, or will it keep a cumulative list and require activation at a
certain point.

driver. Especially the monitor may not have as high a resolution as it
could. If activation is required, that doesn't take long.

If Microsoft allows it?

Again I have no experience with other products, like BillW does, but I
think the whole idea of "not supporting" is exaggerated in people's
minds. I think it only means that they will not write fixes for
problems noticed in the future, not that they will keep people from
downloading fixes already written.

I suspect that they will remove most, if not all, of the patches and fixes
for XP, as I think they have done for Win98 and the earlier OS versions.
And why would they do that? Because they don't want to support it anymore,
and that includes any phone calls or emails with people having any issues
with XP. As far as MS is concerned, it's a dead horse, and they've moved on
:-) So I can see why they do this, as customer service can be an expensive
PIA.

Still, it would be nice if MS left some files up there, and just stated that
"you're on your own now", as we (MS) will not offer any support on this, or
anything else related to XP, period. But I guess the simplest and cleanest
approach from their point of view is simply to remove it all and nip it in
the bud. :-)

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:19:01 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote:

micky wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:30:34 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , micky
writes:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:47:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , BillW50
writes:
On 1/17/2014 4:55 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50
writes: []
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from
scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with all
of
the current updates as well. You can also throw some applications on
it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install
Windows,
all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special version
of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with
regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP
machines.

Many OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc use preactivated installs. If you
install them on machines they are meant for, they use a generic key
and
it is already activated. If it isn't meant for that computer, it will
ask you for a key. Or some others may refuse to install.

But if you use a non-OEM install and you used the slipstreaming method
to install applications and updates, then you have to enter a key and
activate every install.

How Acronis and Paragon method works is by replacing the drivers with
generic drivers. And when you boot up for the first time on a
different
machine, Windows will say found new hardware and replace those generic
drivers with other ones. And since the new machine is probably much
different than the original machine, thus it will trip the many
hardware change and tell you that you have to reactivate it again.

Ah, so when you said "Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s)", you meant restoring to a state that still needs
activation. I misunderstood; I'd assuming "restoring" meant to a
working
state.

If your set of computers are all the same brand and model, there
hardware will be the same as the first one and they won't need changes.
It also won't need activation if there are few hardware changes.

I clearly misunderstood "totally different computer" - you meant
different in serial number. (I guess it was the word "totally" that
threw me.)

It was BillW, not me, who wrote the posts before yours. I can't find
"totally different computer" but I took computer "much different from
the original" to mean a Dell instead of a Compaq, with different video
cards (plug-in or built-in) or different sound cards, etc, not just the
serial number. In fact if two serial numbers were 1 apart from each
other, I'd expect the machines likely to be the same.


And if the computer models are not the same, IIRC, even with generic
drivers, the computer is in a working state. The correct driver is
usually found within XP and installed almost automatically, but if it

I agree, that is my experience.

hasn't happened yet, or if one says No to changing the driver, IIRC,
things will work, but in some cases not as well as with the proper

(Is it likely to be the case that saying no to driver changes is likely
to reduce the chance of activation being needed?)

I believe so, though I have no experience doing that . What I wonder
is, if you allow one change, like the video driver, and hold off for a
few months for the next change, will it forget that that makes 2
changes, or will it keep a cumulative list and require activation at a
certain point.

driver. Especially the monitor may not have as high a resolution as it
could. If activation is required, that doesn't take long.

If Microsoft allows it?

Again I have no experience with other products, like BillW does, but I
think the whole idea of "not supporting" is exaggerated in people's
minds. I think it only means that they will not write fixes for
problems noticed in the future, not that they will keep people from
downloading fixes already written.

I suspect that they will remove most, if not all, of the patches and fixes
for XP, as I think they have done for Win98 and the earlier OS versions.

I was under the impression that fixes for win98 were still there. Or
at least there for years after there was "no support". But I could be
wrong.

I am also under the impression that older OSes have most of the flaws
found and fixed, so few if any fixes are still necessary. Compared to
new OSes with much code that hasn't been field-tested. Is this
paragraph true?

And why would they do that? Because they don't want to support it anymore,
and that includes any phone calls or emails with people having any issues

Yes, I forgot about emails and phone calls, because I never sent or made
any to them. I got, I'm sure, much better support on newsrgroups.
smile

Yes, they woudl stop that too when support ended. They could be more of
a pain than writing fixes. Even if they charge, they'd have to have
people who knew win98.

with XP. As far as MS is concerned, it's a dead horse, and they've moved on
:-) So I can see why they do this, as customer service can be an expensive
PIA.

Still, it would be nice if MS left some files up there, and just stated that
"you're on your own now", as we (MS) will not offer any support on this, or

Like Eudora did. Of course they abandoned writing new versions (the
new versions are written by others and not based on version 7, the last
real version) Eudora gave permission for everyone to dl Eudora and
activate it, without paying. So far it's needed no updates.

anything else related to XP, period. But I guess the simplest and cleanest
approach from their point of view is simply to remove it all and nip it in
the bud. :-)

Is there a way to avoid the reactivation problem?

micky wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:19:01 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote:

micky wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:30:34 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , micky
writes:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:47:20 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , BillW50
writes:
On 1/17/2014 4:55 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50
writes: []
There is even a far easier way. If you are installing XP from
scratch on
a bunch of computers. Then you can create an install disc with
all of the current updates as well. You can also throw
some applications on it
too. This method is called slipstreaming. So when you install
Windows, all updates and applications are installed too.

Another similar method is taking one computer that has all of the
updates and applications and you back it up with a special
version of
Acronis or Paragon. Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s).

But how do those restores get on with
regitration/activation/whatever? I
presume there is something to stop this method being used to create
multiple PCs that appear as "legal", or at least working, XP
machines.

Many OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc use preactivated installs. If you
install them on machines they are meant for, they use a generic key
and it is already activated. If it isn't meant for that computer, it
will ask you for a key. Or some others may refuse to install.

But if you use a non-OEM install and you used the slipstreaming
method
to install applications and updates, then you have to enter a key
and
activate every install.

How Acronis and Paragon method works is by replacing the drivers
with
generic drivers. And when you boot up for the first time on a
different
machine, Windows will say found new hardware and replace those
generic
drivers with other ones. And since the new machine is probably
much different than the original machine, thus it will trip
the many
hardware change and tell you that you have to reactivate it again.

Ah, so when you said "Which allows restoring to a totally different
computer(s)", you meant restoring to a state that still needs
activation. I misunderstood; I'd assuming "restoring" meant to a
working state.

If your set of computers are all the same brand and model, there
hardware will be the same as the first one and they won't need
changes.
It also won't need activation if there are few hardware changes.

I clearly misunderstood "totally different computer" - you meant
different in serial number. (I guess it was the word "totally" that
threw me.)

It was BillW, not me, who wrote the posts before yours. I can't find
"totally different computer" but I took computer "much different from
the original" to mean a Dell instead of a Compaq, with different video
cards (plug-in or built-in) or different sound cards, etc, not just the
serial number. In fact if two serial numbers were 1 apart from each
other, I'd expect the machines likely to be the same.


And if the computer models are not the same, IIRC, even with generic
drivers, the computer is in a working state. The correct driver is
usually found within XP and installed almost automatically, but if it

I agree, that is my experience.

hasn't happened yet, or if one says No to changing the driver, IIRC,
things will work, but in some cases not as well as with the proper

(Is it likely to be the case that saying no to driver changes is likely
to reduce the chance of activation being needed?)

I believe so, though I have no experience doing that . What I wonder
is, if you allow one change, like the video driver, and hold off for a
few months for the next change, will it forget that that makes 2
changes, or will it keep a cumulative list and require activation at a
certain point.

driver. Especially the monitor may not have as high a resolution as
it
could. If activation is required, that doesn't take long.

If Microsoft allows it?

Again I have no experience with other products, like BillW does, but I
think the whole idea of "not supporting" is exaggerated in people's
minds. I think it only means that they will not write fixes for
problems noticed in the future, not that they will keep people from
downloading fixes already written.

I suspect that they will remove most, if not all, of the patches and
fixes
for XP, as I think they have done for Win98 and the earlier OS versions.

I was under the impression that fixes for win98 were still there. Or
at least there for years after there was "no support". But I could be
wrong.

I haven't checked recently, but I don't think the fixes are there anymore.

I am also under the impression that older OSes have most of the flaws
found and fixed, so few if any fixes are still necessary. Compared to
new OSes with much code that hasn't been field-tested. Is this
paragraph true?

I would think so. But it's not so much the fixes as the security patches,
which I don't classify as "fixes". And those could go on forever. So the
simplest "solution" for MS is to have a cutoff date and end support, which
they do.

And why would they do that? Because they don't want to support it
anymore,
and that includes any phone calls or emails with people having any issues

Yes, I forgot about emails and phone calls, because I never sent or made
any to them. I got, I'm sure, much better support on newsrgroups.
smile

Yes, they would stop that too when support ended. They could be more of
a pain than writing fixes. Even if they charge, they'd have to have
people who knew win98.

And I doubt there are many left.

with XP. As far as MS is concerned, it's a dead horse, and they've moved
on
:-) So I can see why they do this, as customer service can be an
expensive
PIA.

Still, it would be nice if MS left some files up there, and just stated
that
"you're on your own now", as we (MS) will not offer any support on this,
or Like Eudora did. Of course they abandoned writing new versions (the
new versions are written by others and not based on version 7, the last
real version) Eudora gave permission for everyone to dl Eudora and
activate it, without paying. So far it's needed no updates.

anything else related to XP, period. But I guess the simplest and
cleanest
approach from their point of view is simply to remove it all and nip it
in
the bud. :-)

Is there a way to avoid the reactivation problem?

Avoid? I don't think so. But a resolution? Possibly a phone call to MS
if you're lucky, at least for some cases.

On 1/19/2014 7:47 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:19:01 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote:
[...]
Again I have no experience with other products, like BillW does, but I
think the whole idea of "not supporting" is exaggerated in people's
minds. I think it only means that they will not write fixes for
problems noticed in the future, not that they will keep people from
downloading fixes already written.

I suspect that they will remove most, if not all, of the patches and fixes
for XP, as I think they have done for Win98 and the earlier OS versions.

I was under the impression that fixes for win98 were still there. Or
at least there for years after there was "no support". But I could be
wrong.

Yes Microsoft did have the updates for Windows 98 for many years after
support had stopped. And you can still get them today on many reliable
sites.

I am also under the impression that older OSes have most of the flaws
found and fixed, so few if any fixes are still necessary. Compared to
new OSes with much code that hasn't been field-tested. Is this
paragraph true?

Yes for the most part. Although some newer Windows gets some security
patches that sometimes even effects older unsupported Windows too that
you will never see a patch for. But I don't think it matters much as
long as you have a real time AV that scans anything first before
launching it anyway.

And why would they do that? Because they don't want to support it anymore,
and that includes any phone calls or emails with people having any issues

Yes, I forgot about emails and phone calls, because I never sent or made
any to them. I got, I'm sure, much better support on newsrgroups.
smile

Yes, they woudl stop that too when support ended. They could be more of
a pain than writing fixes. Even if they charge, they'd have to have
people who knew win98.

Yup, help from others are far better support than you can get from
Microsoft anyway.

with XP. As far as MS is concerned, it's a dead horse, and they've moved on
:-) So I can see why they do this, as customer service can be an expensive
PIA.

Still, it would be nice if MS left some files up there, and just stated that
"you're on your own now", as we (MS) will not offer any support on this, or

Like Eudora did. Of course they abandoned writing new versions (the
new versions are written by others and not based on version 7, the last
real version) Eudora gave permission for everyone to dl Eudora and
activate it, without paying. So far it's needed no updates.

There are tons of abandon software out there that they released now for
free. The last version of MS Money for example, Microsoft released it
for free too.

anything else related to XP, period. But I guess the simplest and cleanest
approach from their point of view is simply to remove it all and nip it in
the bud. :-)

Is there a way to avoid the reactivation problem?

I believe it was Microsoft who said they would issue a patch that gets
around the activating if they ever did stop. That is what they did with
the last MS Money too. As originally you had to activate it. Then later,
they issued a patch to bypass activation. And they gave a date in the
future when their servers won't activate Money anymore. I think it was
like a 2 year or more warning when it would happen.

Also a lot of those branded XP OEM disc doesn't require activating
anyway. Many of my XP discs are like this. Even some of my Windows 7
discs are too. I suppose some Windows 8 discs are the same. I think they
work by checking your BIOS to see if you qualify for that version.

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5 GHz - 2GB RAM
Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005 SP2

In message , micky
writes:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:30:34 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:
[]
(Is it likely to be the case that saying no to driver changes is likely
to reduce the chance of activation being needed?)

I believe so, though I have no experience doing that . What I wonder
is, if you allow one change, like the video driver, and hold off for a
few months for the next change, will it forget that that makes 2
changes, or will it keep a cumulative list and require activation at a
certain point.

If it works at all, I'd guess it would be the latter case.

driver. Especially the monitor may not have as high a resolution as it
could. If activation is required, that doesn't take long.

If Microsoft allows it?

Again I have no experience with other products, like BillW does, but I
think the whole idea of "not supporting" is exaggerated in people's
minds. I think it only means that they will not write fixes for
problems noticed in the future, not that they will keep people from

That is my feeling too of what the main effect will be, to start with ..

downloading fixes already written. And now that you mention it, not

... though I think they'll gradually start removing the necessary files:
either deliberately, or just making links to them harder to find so
they're only findable to those who know where they are.

that they will not permit activation. A lot of people would be angry

See later posting.

to learn, in many casesl, at the last minute, that they can't reactivate
their windows.

Well, are they much different to the quite a lot of people who are angry
that XP support is ending? I suppose you said *re*activate, but still,
we are talking of an OS that's - for most practical purposes - not been
_buyable_ for a while, so it would only be people who've broken - in one
sense or another - their system.

I've not yet heard any even hints as to how long XP activation will be
provided. It could cease on x April, of course, though I'd have thought
that if that was planned, we'd have heard at least rumours by now. Of

I woudl expect it to be announced by MS at the same time lack of support
was announced.

I guess I would as well, and we haven't - but I don't expect it to be
provided indefinitely.

course, the best outcome - for users! - would be for MS to release code
for activation servers after April, but I don't expect that to happen!

Why would MS have to release more code? What's wrong with the code that
exists?

See next post.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If just one child is saved, then we'll have created a police state for the
benefit of just one child."

In message , micky
writes:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:19:01 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote:
[]
Still, it would be nice if MS left some files up there, and just stated that
"you're on your own now", as we (MS) will not offer any support on this, or

Like Eudora did. Of course they abandoned writing new versions (the
new versions are written by others and not based on version 7, the last

(If you mean Eudora OSE - "open source edition" - that is indeed not
based on the old Eudora: it's basically a version of Thunderbird tricked
out to _look_ like Eudora. Unfortunately it's a very old version of
Thunderbird - 1.x I think - and not being upgraded.)

real version) Eudora gave permission for everyone to dl Eudora and
activate it, without paying. So far it's needed no updates.

Is that Eudora 7? If so, my (blind) friend has it, and it installed OK
under Windows 7 (despite what we'd seen somewhere). But after a while,
it asked if we wanted to continue using the limited version we were
using, to upgrade to the better version for free but ad-supported, or
upgrade to the better version and pay. Since the ad.s are small and
graphical, he wouldn't be bothered by them (his blind wife has that
version), so we elected to go for that, but unfortunately the server
that was hard-coded into it no longer responds.

anything else related to XP, period. But I guess the simplest and cleanest
approach from their point of view is simply to remove it all and nip it in
the bud. :-)
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If just one child is saved, then we'll have created a police state for the
benefit of just one child."

In message , BillW50
writes:
On 1/19/2014 7:47 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:19:01 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote:
[]
anything else related to XP, period. But I guess the simplest and cleanest
approach from their point of view is simply to remove it all and nip it in
the bud. :-)

Is there a way to avoid the reactivation problem?

I believe it was Microsoft who said they would issue a patch that gets
around the activating if they ever did stop. That is what they did with

I don't suppose you have a reference for that? One would hope they do,
but I can't see any reason for them to do so (other than good PR), and a
good reason for them not to (basically the knowledge that activation
will eventually be available would stop a, diminishing but still
sizeable, number of people from buying a new Windows).

the last MS Money too. As originally you had to activate it. Then
later, they issued a patch to bypass activation. And they gave a date
in the future when their servers won't activate Money anymore. I think
it was like a 2 year or more warning when it would happen.

I know Adobe released (they may still be available) unlocked version of
one of their suites - Photo Elements was it? - when they wanted to turn
off their activation servers. They stressed that they were only for
people who'd bought the original product, and of course I'm sure that
only those people downloaded the unlocked versions ... (-:

Also a lot of those branded XP OEM disc doesn't require activating
anyway. Many of my XP discs are like this. Even some of my Windows 7
discs are too. I suppose some Windows 8 discs are the same. I think
they work by checking your BIOS to see if you qualify for that version.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"If just one child is saved, then we'll have created a police state for the
benefit of just one child."

On 1/21/2014 2:09 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , BillW50 writes:
On 1/19/2014 7:47 PM, micky wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:19:01 -0700, "Bill in Co"
wrote:
[]
anything else related to XP, period. But I guess the simplest and
cleanest
approach from their point of view is simply to remove it all and nip
it in
the bud. :-)

Is there a way to avoid the reactivation problem?

I believe it was Microsoft who said they would issue a patch that gets
around the activating if they ever did stop. That is what they did with

I don't suppose you have a reference for that? One would hope they do,
but I can't see any reason for them to do so (other than good PR), and a
good reason for them not to (basically the knowledge that activation
will eventually be available would stop a, diminishing but still
sizeable, number of people from buying a new Windows).

Hmm... I don't know if that was something I saved or not. But from my
memory it was stated in one of those Microsoft.public newsgroups dealing
with MS Money. I believe there is only one of them. Archives I think are
still easy to find. That is where I would start looking.

There are lots of Microsoft products that ended up biting the dust and I
know about some of them. One of them I was interested in was MS Money.
And many users heard that MS was going to stop Money support and end all
development. I think was about 2010, but not positive. And either
somebody posted a message they got from Microsoft or Microsoft
themselves stated that don't worry about activation as they will always
work. Either the server will continue to activate or a patch would be
issued to bypass the activation.

Sounds great and reassuring and all. Although before they shutdown the
activation servers, instead of a patch, they released the total same of
the last version minus the activation. Well not actually like the patch
I heard about, but anybody could download it now without any problems.

Another Microsoft product that I followed a lot was MS Flight Simulator.
Long and interesting history there and almost as long as MS-DOS (short
by two years I think), but cutting to the chase is at least the last
version required activated. Microsoft killed that one pretty fast and I
don't recall as much of a concern in the newsgroup as MS Money. Anyway
no mention of any activation patch and I don't recall anybody really
worrying or anything. But the last time I checked (about a year ago),
the activation servers are still activating the last version just fine.
I don't recall when MS killed it off, but either 2007 or 2009 sounds
about right.

And regardless what an employee ever said while Microsoft would never do
something or not. I guess even that is meaningless in regards with
whoever is the current CEO of Microsoft is in charge. As they could
change everything at anytime.

And while all I have to go on with one example where MS killed off the
activation servers, they released a version that anybody can install.
All others as far as I know there has been no patches or anything, but
they still activate just fine. So that is at least promising.

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM - Windows 8 Professional