Win 7 & Win 8 On laptop

On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, OldGuy wrote:

I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8 on this laptop. But I used a totally
different method. One drive has Windows 7 and another drive has Windows 8. It
takes about 2 seconds to swap the drives. I purchased extra drive carriers so
swapping drives is really easy and fast.

Some have reported that Windows 8 likes to mess around with the Windows 7
partition. I forget the details, but Paul knows more about this than I do.
But I seem to recall when you boot up Windows 7, the dirty flag is set and
runs chkdsk before Windows can boot up. The way that I do it, this isn't a
problem.

Unfortunately this laptop has no drive door so I have to remove a dozen
or more screws to get at the drive. Ditto for the battery. Not
impossible but it takes a little skill not to damage the laptop when
doing this. The RAM has a door and the DVD comes out with one screw
removal.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

OldGuy wrote:
This picture shows "Create a System Repair Disc".

http://www.sevenforums.com/attachmen...ckup-step1.jpg

(
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ge-backup.html
)

And that's for booting the computer, when the hard drive
is dead, and you're restoring from an external data drive.

On OEM computers, sometimes that control panel is damaged by
the installation of a provided third party backup program.
That's what happened on my Acer laptop. Since doing a clean
install from a regular DVD, it's all back to normal now.

*******

The Easeus page here, shows WinPE boot disc for the pay versions.
I guess the idea is, to leave you high and dry, the day your
hard drive dies, and you made the backup with the free version.

http://www.easeus.com/backup-software/

Paul

That first screen is what I see. I did do a System Image; only DVDs
could be created, I could not create to any thing else like a NAS or
other PC seen on my LAN. I kept asking for a username and password.
None have a username and password. They are all open access on the
LAN.
It is still not clear what is on the DVDs: all my apps too or just Win
7 system?

But attempting a repair disk it said it could not find what it needed
and to insert the installation disks for Wn 7 which I do not get with
the laptop.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 2/7/2014 3:04 PM, OldGuy wrote:
On 2/7/2014 12:39 PM, OldGuy wrote:

I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8 on this laptop. But I used a
totally different method. One drive has Windows 7 and another drive
has Windows 8. It takes about 2 seconds to swap the drives. I
purchased extra drive carriers so swapping drives is really easy and
fast.

Some have reported that Windows 8 likes to mess around with the
Windows 7 partition. I forget the details, but Paul knows more about
this than I do. But I seem to recall when you boot up Windows 7, the
dirty flag is set and runs chkdsk before Windows can boot up. The way
that I do it, this isn't a problem.

Unfortunately this laptop has no drive door so I have to remove a dozen
or more screws to get at the drive. Ditto for the battery. Not
impossible but it takes a little skill not to damage the laptop when
doing this. The RAM has a door and the DVD comes out with one screw
removal.

Ah yes, I wouldn't swap drives on a machine like that. My Dell Latitude
STs you have to completely remove the whole back to get at the SSD and
the battery. Too much trouble to swap on those too. So I bought two. One
with Windows 7 Pro and the other one I installed Windows 8 on.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v24.3.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 Home SP1

Monty wrote :
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:36:11 -0800, OldGuy wrote:
I have two EaseUS products installed and each has an option to create
a bootable recovery disk.

EaseUS Partition Master Pro Edition - Click the "Tool" menu and select
"Create bootable disk"

EaseUS ToDo Backup Workstation - Click the "Tools" menu and select
"Create emergency disk".

I would expect something similar in the package that you bought.

They call it an emergency disk. I created the PE and Linux disks.
I did not equate Emergency disk with Repair disk.
I need to figure out what the Emrgency does.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 2/07/2014, OldGuy posted:
Monty wrote :
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:36:11 -0800, OldGuy
wrote:
I have two EaseUS products installed and each has an option to
create
a bootable recovery disk.

EaseUS Partition Master Pro Edition - Click the "Tool" menu and
select
"Create bootable disk"

EaseUS ToDo Backup Workstation - Click the "Tools" menu and select
"Create emergency disk".

I would expect something similar in the package that you bought.

They call it an emergency disk. I created the PE and Linux disks.
I did not equate Emergency disk with Repair disk.
I need to figure out what the Emrgency does.

It's a repair disk :-)

You boot with it instead of your regular OS; it contains the program
(in this case, EaseUS ToDo) and therefore the ability to restore your
old HD - or a new one - from a backup. Even if you can't boot from the
internal drive, hence the value of such a CD.

It goes without saying - but I'm saying it - that it also can create a
backup of the internal HD, and the other tasks that are part of the
program.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 13:23:00 -0800, OldGuy wrote:

Monty wrote :
On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 10:36:11 -0800, OldGuy wrote:
I have two EaseUS products installed and each has an option to create
a bootable recovery disk.

EaseUS Partition Master Pro Edition - Click the "Tool" menu and select
"Create bootable disk"

EaseUS ToDo Backup Workstation - Click the "Tools" menu and select
"Create emergency disk".

I would expect something similar in the package that you bought.

They call it an emergency disk. I created the PE and Linux disks.
I did not equate Emergency disk with Repair disk.

I need to figure out what the Emrgency does.

I expect that "Emergency" disc and "Rescue" disk are just different
names for the same function. In this instance the discs provide
access to a partitioning program or a backup/restore program without
using an Operating system. I call my discs "Bootable Rescue Disk"
with appropriate labelling, which also indicates whether it is a WinPE
ot Linux disk, as shown at http://tinypic.com/r/awvwuo/8

On 2/7/2014 11:54 AM, OldGuy wrote:
Win 7 is the C: bootable now.
i have the install disks for Win 8.1 that came with the laptop.

Mind if I ask what brand of laptop that you bought that came with a
Windows 8.1 installation disc? Is it a full install disc or an upgrade disc?

On 07/02/2014 18:52, BillW50 wrote:
I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8 on this laptop. But I used a totally
different method. One drive has Windows 7 and another drive has Windows
8. It takes about 2 seconds to swap the drives. I purchased extra drive
carriers so swapping drives is really easy and fast.

Some have reported that Windows 8 likes to mess around with the Windows
7 partition. I forget the details, but Paul knows more about this than I
do. But I seem to recall when you boot up Windows 7, the dirty flag is
set and runs chkdsk before Windows can boot up. The way that I do it,
this isn't a problem.

I dual boot Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 on my desktop PC at the moment
(with Windows 7 as the default) and I don't get any unexpected running
of chkdsk when starting up.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 11:41:46 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 02/07/2014 11:27 AM, Paul wrote:
OldGuy wrote:
Win 7 is the C: bootable now.
i have the install disks for Win 8.1 that came with the laptop.

I have a 60G partition set aside for Win 8.1 and a larger data
partition. Win 7 is on its own partition.

What is the best way to get Win 8.1 on the laptop and preserve Win 7?
i.e. Have the default Win 7 and the alternate Win 8.1?
X


snip


Win7 and Win8 are very close to being the identical operating system
with the exception of course that Win8 can make use of the touch screen.


Since Win8 can be toggled between "Modern" and "Classic"
I don't see the point of even having Win7 on the machine.


I'd just wipe the drive from the context of the Win8 installer and go
with Win8 only.


Having used 7, 8, and 8.1, I'd go with 7.

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 13:15:40 -0800, OldGuy wrote:

OldGuy wrote:
This picture shows "Create a System Repair Disc".

http://www.sevenforums.com/attachmen...ckup-step1.jpg

(
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ge-backup.html
)

And that's for booting the computer, when the hard drive
is dead, and you're restoring from an external data drive.

On OEM computers, sometimes that control panel is damaged by
the installation of a provided third party backup program.
That's what happened on my Acer laptop. Since doing a clean
install from a regular DVD, it's all back to normal now.

*******

The Easeus page here, shows WinPE boot disc for the pay versions.
I guess the idea is, to leave you high and dry, the day your
hard drive dies, and you made the backup with the free version.

http://www.easeus.com/backup-software/

Paul

That first screen is what I see. I did do a System Image; only DVDs
could be created,

I'm guessing you didn't have a hard drive connected or you would have seen
an option to write to it. DVDs are a painful way to create a system backup.

I could not create to any thing else like a NAS or
other PC seen on my LAN. I kept asking for a username and password.
None have a username and password. They are all open access on the
LAN.
It is still not clear what is on the DVDs: all my apps too or just Win
7 system?

If you don't know what you backed up, that sort of makes the backup
worthless, IMO. Especially if you haven't tested it by doing a full restore
from it.

But attempting a repair disk it said it could not find what it needed
and to insert the installation disks for Wn 7 which I do not get with
the laptop.

In that case, it sounds worthless to me. I'd make a proper backup ASAP.

OldGuy wrote:
OldGuy wrote:
This picture shows "Create a System Repair Disc".

http://www.sevenforums.com/attachmen...ckup-step1.jpg


(
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ge-backup.html
)

And that's for booting the computer, when the hard drive
is dead, and you're restoring from an external data drive.

On OEM computers, sometimes that control panel is damaged by
the installation of a provided third party backup program.
That's what happened on my Acer laptop. Since doing a clean
install from a regular DVD, it's all back to normal now.

*******

The Easeus page here, shows WinPE boot disc for the pay versions.
I guess the idea is, to leave you high and dry, the day your
hard drive dies, and you made the backup with the free version.

http://www.easeus.com/backup-software/

Paul

That first screen is what I see. I did do a System Image; only DVDs
could be created, I could not create to any thing else like a NAS or
other PC seen on my LAN. I kept asking for a username and password.
None have a username and password. They are all open access on the LAN.
It is still not clear what is on the DVDs: all my apps too or just Win 7
system?

But attempting a repair disk it said it could not find what it needed
and to insert the installation disks for Wn 7 which I do not get with
the laptop.


Download *any* Windows 7 DVD from DigitalRiver. When you boot that,
there will be an option to "restore from System Image backup". The
menu that the booted DVD presents, looks like this. It's the same
menu as you see, if you made the tiny 200MB recovery disc with
the option I showed previously.

http://www.sevenforums.com/attachmen...ry_options.jpg

( http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...-recovery.html )

List of some downloads available. You can download an entire
OS installer DVD, just for the sole purpose of being able to
boot to that menu.

http://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technol...download-links

This is the one I've got.

Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 (old) X17-24209.iso

http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24209.iso --- DigitalRiver link

That's the one I keep handy, for my laptop. That's the closest
match to the software on the laptop. And the installer DVD
doubles as an emergency boot disc. I can get to a
Command Prompt window with that as well.

There are MD5 and SHA1 checksums around for files like that,
if you want to verify they're genuine. First, get yourself
at least one tool to calculate a checksum.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/downl....aspx?id=11533

fciv -md5 X17-24209.iso

That will give a string of numbers. You run that on the
file you download, then see if any checksum lists
agree with the value shown.

MD5 = 971843a457b6e0db0af61258cbe7256a

Using a checksum like that, you can also find other sites
with checksums and pointers to downloads.

(Poorly formatted web page)

https://sites.google.com/site/linuxl...ry/windows-iso

Paul

Paul wrote:

First step, is you do a backup, so you're prepared
if the outcome is not what you expected.

On an MBR disk (versus GPT), you have room for
four primary partitions or three primary partitions
and an extended partition. Inside the extended you can have
logical partitions. I expect Win8.1 could run within a
logical partition, because SYSTEM RESERVED contains
the boot files and has the boot flag set on it.

Win8 in a dual boot system, when installed as the second o/s (as MSFT
recommends) will write to the existing System Reserved partition and
then install its GUI boot manager for both. Booting will load some
basic Windows 8 files (i.e. you'll be running Win8) then the Win8 boot
GUI will load allowing one to select the desired o/s.
- the above is unlike the earlier o/s text based ('Command' like UI)

Since Win8 requires more System Reserved space (since it includes data
for repair) and sufficient space is present in the existing System
Reserved, the additional data will be written to the same location. If
insufficient space is present, Win8 will do one of three
things...harvest space and resize the System Reserved(rare and only if
unallocated space is present after the existing System Reserved); Write
the necessary data and the boot files external to System Reserved on a
partition with sufficient capacity with pointers to its location; or fail.


You're installing the newest OS last, which is the
preferred order. The boot menu will be updated
automatically for you, to show two OSes. If the SYSTEM RESERVED
files need to be changed, they'll be changed. So you've got
automation operating in your favor.

It doesn't update the existing boot menu, it writes a new one and runs
under Win8.
- the old is still present but not used.

Now if later, you start asking silly questions like "can I
now remove Windows 7" or "can I now remove Windows 8",
well the answer is "probably". You should be able to zap
one of the C: drives, without upsetting SYSTEM RESERVED.
So even that, probably won't mess up.

Regarding later (for removing Win8).. Well kind of G....some
additional planning and updating BCEdit may be necessary (i.e. the new
Win8 boot menu runs under Windows 8 not before it - remove 8 could
require Win7 repair to correct and inform the system that Win7 is now
the sole and default o/s.

It sounds like you have a good idea how to do it,
create an NTFS partition, empty, as something for the
installer to see.

Now, your other question was about booting. I would hope
that a multi-boot install, would continue to use the
BIOS boot method already evident. If your BIOS is a legacy
BIOS or is a UEFI with legacy boot module, then it's booting
the old way already. If it is UEFI and not set to legacy, and
perhaps you have a TPM, I suppose it could be set up for
trusted boot. But that sounds more like a factory option,
than something mere mortals do in the comfort of their
homes. So whatever boot mode it's in, I'm betting
that's good enough and leave it alone.

Some variation may exist...since it points to Win8's GUI boot manager,
wiping one o/s may impact the other o/s....booting from the bios/uefi
should still function, though (since both now run from the Win8 boot
side of the business, the Win8 GUI may still be present).
- to avoid that possibility, its preferred to install Win8 to an
entirely separte disk after disconnecting the first drive (Win7) and
priotr to installing Windows 8 thereby allowing each o/s to have its own
System Reserved...thereafter use the appropriate Function key for the
option to choose the disk(and its o/s) for booting.
- with this route...its possible to have Win7 using MBR and Win8 (if
the system supports) using UEFI/GPT.

When Win8 is installed second, it will become the default o/s for
booting purpose. The user has the option to change the default o/s on
the Win8 GUI boot menu

In other words, just *do it*, and get back to us
later with the sad stories ("I can't restore from
my backup") :-)

"Brian Gregory" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2014 18:52, BillW50 wrote:
I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8 on this laptop. But I used a
totally different method. One drive has Windows 7 and another drive
has Windows 8. It takes about 2 seconds to swap the drives. I
purchased extra drive carriers so swapping drives is really easy and
fast.

Some have reported that Windows 8 likes to mess around with the
Windows 7 partition. I forget the details, but Paul knows more about
this than I do. But I seem to recall when you boot up Windows 7, the
dirty flag is set and runs chkdsk before Windows can boot up. The way
that I do it, this isn't a problem.

I dual boot Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 on my desktop PC at the moment
(with Windows 7 as the default) and I don't get any unexpected running
of chkdsk when starting up.

Paul could tell you more about it. Or you can check the achieves about
it about last year.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows Live Mail 2009 v14
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center

BillW50 wrote:
"Brian Gregory" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2014 18:52, BillW50 wrote:
I have both Windows 7 and Windows 8 on this laptop. But I used a
totally different method. One drive has Windows 7 and another drive
has Windows 8. It takes about 2 seconds to swap the drives. I
purchased extra drive carriers so swapping drives is really easy and
fast.

Some have reported that Windows 8 likes to mess around with the
Windows 7 partition. I forget the details, but Paul knows more about
this than I do. But I seem to recall when you boot up Windows 7, the
dirty flag is set and runs chkdsk before Windows can boot up. The way
that I do it, this isn't a problem.
I dual boot Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 on my desktop PC at the moment
(with Windows 7 as the default) and I don't get any unexpected running
of chkdsk when starting up.

Paul could tell you more about it. Or you can check the achieves about
it about last year.


I was seeing problems dual booting Win8 Preview and WinXP.
I thought I'd traced it, to perhaps Windows 8 spinning down
hard drives in mid session. And not handling them properly
later, during shutdown of the OS.

I tried powercfg -h off and it seemed to stop after that.
But I was also adjusting the Power settings as well,
trying to turn off hard drive spin-down and so on.

I don't know what the current status is, or whether people
dual booting still see these things or not.

Paul

BillW50 écrivait :

snip

Actually touch screen support is found in the following:

Windows XP Tablet Edition
Vista Business
Windows 7 (all editions)
Windows 8 (all editions)

Also that is a good point, Windows 8.1 has everything that Windows 7
does plus more. The only exception is Windows 7 has the Media Center and
Windows 8.1 it is available for $9.95 extra.


FWIW, my previous employer used "touch screens" since the 1990s with
WindowsNT but I guess it was 3rd party support, not Windows.