Special Folders Revisited

As you may recall, I am in the process of moving the special folders of
my main account to another physical drive and installing an SSD as my
boot drive.

An interesting anomaly has occurred!

Here's the history.

Connect external drive O: and create a folder alek with subfolders
Documents, Downloads, etc.

Move the contents of C:\users\alek\Documents to O:\alek\Documents and
DEL C:\users\alek\Documents
MKLINK /J c:\users\alek\Documents O:\alek\Documents

Repeat for each of the special folders.

Now unless I've made a typo above, that worked flawlessly.

So I removed the magnetic HD that had been C:, installed the SSD and
booted Everything was fine. Reinserted the old mag HD and rebooted. The
old mg HD -- once again internal -- is now E:.

So I created E:\alek\Documents, E:\alek\Downloads, etc as I did before,
and deleted C:\users\alek\Documents, etc.

Then I copied the contents of O:\alek\Documents to E:\alek\Documents,
and then

MKLINK /J c:\users\alek\Documents E:\alek\Documents, and so on.

Great! When I look at c:\users\alek, I see one documents folder, and any
changes I make in E:\alek\documents instantly appears in
c:\users\alek\documents.

BUT.....

For some reason, I had File Explorer open to This PC and I opened
Documents. Whoops! Not what I expected. Did a little searching and found
that this points to o:\alek\documents!! Same for Music, Downloads!!!

And at one point before I went to bed, I swear I saw under c:\users\alek
TWO folders named Documents -- one in black and one in blue!!!

I guess that at some point I should have RD'd the links I made with
MKLINK but I guess it's too late now.

Should I just delete the old o:\alek folders? What about removing
registry entries for them??

Thanks.

Stormin' Norman wrote on 4/28/2015 2:13 PM:

snip

Your explanation was somewhat long, but if I understand correctly, do the
following.

Well, I wanted to include everything. :-)

From an elevated command prompt, use the rmdir command to delete the symbolic
links to the directories on the O: drive, e.g.

c:\rmdir /S /Q O:\alek\Documents

This will remove the directories and the symbolic links.


It did. Thanks. However, the six folders (System Folders) displayed in
File Explorer still refer to O:\alek\whatever.

What do I do about them?

Thanks.

On 28/04/2015 18:19:40, Alek wrote:
As you may recall, I am in the process of moving the special folders of
my main account to another physical drive and installing an SSD as my
boot drive.

An interesting anomaly has occurred!

Here's the history.

Connect external drive O: and create a folder alek with subfolders
Documents, Downloads, etc.

Move the contents of C:\users\alek\Documents to O:\alek\Documents and
DEL C:\users\alek\Documents
MKLINK /J c:\users\alek\Documents O:\alek\Documents

Repeat for each of the special folders.

Now unless I've made a typo above, that worked flawlessly.

So I removed the magnetic HD that had been C:, installed the SSD and
booted Everything was fine. Reinserted the old mag HD and rebooted. The
old mg HD -- once again internal -- is now E:.

So I created E:\alek\Documents, E:\alek\Downloads, etc as I did before,
and deleted C:\users\alek\Documents, etc.

Then I copied the contents of O:\alek\Documents to E:\alek\Documents,
and then

MKLINK /J c:\users\alek\Documents E:\alek\Documents, and so on.

Great! When I look at c:\users\alek, I see one documents folder, and any
changes I make in E:\alek\documents instantly appears in
c:\users\alek\documents.

BUT.....

For some reason, I had File Explorer open to This PC and I opened
Documents. Whoops! Not what I expected. Did a little searching and found
that this points to o:\alek\documents!! Same for Music, Downloads!!!

And at one point before I went to bed, I swear I saw under c:\users\alek
TWO folders named Documents -- one in black and one in blue!!!

I guess that at some point I should have RD'd the links I made with
MKLINK but I guess it's too late now.

Should I just delete the old o:\alek folders? What about removing
registry entries for them??

Thanks.

Like I said back in the Hard Disk Management Strategies thread 12 days
ago it would be 'messy and there would be 'glitches' doing things the
way you contemplated.
......but you kept banging on about I've got backups, backups,
backups.....

What you should have done is copy all user sub folders and files that
you were going to relocate in the future from the old mechanical C
drive to the external drive. But as you had backups, that was not
really necessary. You should have then deleted the files from those
folders on the old C drive that you were going to relocate later to the
new clean drive, leaving the user folders like Documents, Music, Photos
etc. still in place. You then CLONE the old C drive with the user
folders still present but not containing any files or sub folders to
the new SSD drive. You boot from the SSD, make sure it is working ok
then format the old mechanical drive and label it as E:. THEN you
relocate the desired folders from the SSD to the E drive and finally
copy the backed up files and sub folders from the external drive into
the correct relocated folders on the E drive.

Simple, been there, got the t-shirt. What should have taken you half a
day or so to accomplish is dragging on to be a fortnight and now you
are on about changing registry entries. If all was done correctly in
the first place as suggested it would never have got 'messy' :-)

--
mick

Alek wrote:

An interesting anomaly has occurred!

Connect external drive O: and create a folder alek with subfolders
Documents, Downloads, etc.

Move the contents of C:\users\alek\Documents to O:\alek\Documents and
DEL C:\users\alek\Documents
MKLINK /J c:\users\alek\Documents O:\alek\Documents

Repeat for each of the special folders.

As I mentioned, I'm sure that process ensures the correct permissions
are assigned the new folder. I suspect but would have to test if using
Windows to do the move would assign the correct permissions to the new
folders. If you create the new folders yourself (and later copy items
into them), I'm sure the permissions will be different. You will still
be listed as the Owner account for the new folders.

When I look at the permissions on %userprofile%\My Documents folder, the
following accounts are listed: SYSTEM (full permissions), my account
(full permissions), Administrators security group (full permissions).
When I create a new folder at the root of my D: drive (e.g., D:\TEMP),
its permissions a Authenticated Users (limited permissions but enough
to allow access beyond thos for special folders), SYSTEM (full
permissions), Administrators (full permissions), Users (read, list, and
execute permissions). So me creating a new folder allows other users
into those folder - which is not what you want for special folders that
are supposed to be isolated by the Windows account (so user-1 cannot
normally get at user-2's data files).

So you still want to have Windows move the special folders since that
probably retains the correct permissions on the new folders. Then
rename the original special folder and create a junction using the
original special folder's original name.


So I removed the magnetic HD that had been C:, installed the SSD and
booted Everything was fine.

So you loaded a different instance of Windows on the SSD that had no
knowledge that you moved the special folders in the other instance of
Windows.

Reinserted the old mag HD and rebooted. The old mg HD -- once again
internal -- is now E:.

Does that mean the SSD was still installed and Windows was loaded from
the SSD (drive C? And you added another hard disk while still booting
that the instance of Windows running from the SSD? Well, the SSD
instance of Windows would have no knowledge of drive letter assignments
you made in some other instance of Windows. The SSD instance of Windows
did what was expected: it found a new drive that had never been defined
to it before and proceeded to assign the next available drive letter.

In the *new* and separate instance of Windows running from the SSD, you
will have to do the same thing you did in the HDD instance of Windows:
change the drive letter of the 2nd internal HDD. Drive O: was *not* the
default drive letter assignment in the HDD instance of Windows. You had
to change that drive letter assignment to O:. Now you have to do the
same in the new and separate instance of Windows that runs from the SSD.

So I created E:\alek\Documents, E:\alek\Downloads, etc as I did before,
and deleted C:\users\alek\Documents, etc.

Then I copied the contents of O:\alek\Documents to E:\alek\Documents,
and then

You said you moved the special folders to the 2nd HDD which was, under
that instance of Windows, assigned the drive letter of O:. Now you're
saying in the new instance of Windows from the SSD that it assigned
drive letter E: to your HDD which is expected. So where is the O: drive
from which you said you copied?

MKLINK /J c:\users\alek\Documents E:\alek\Documents, and so on.

Great! When I look at c:\users\alek, I see one documents folder, and any
changes I make in E:\alek\documents instantly appears in
c:\users\alek\documents.

BUT.....

For some reason, I had File Explorer open to This PC and I opened
Documents. Whoops! Not what I expected. Did a little searching and found
that this points to o:\alek\documents!! Same for Music, Downloads!!!

And at one point before I went to bed, I swear I saw under c:\users\alek
TWO folders named Documents -- one in black and one in blue!!!

I guess that at some point I should have RD'd the links I made with
MKLINK but I guess it's too late now.

Should I just delete the old o:\alek folders? What about removing
registry entries for them??

You had an instance of Windows running before when you moved the special
folders. Then you switched [from HDD] to SSD. There's something
missing in your story because you said in the SSD setup that you had
both drives E: and O: and yet you never mentioned adding another disk
beyond the one you had previously moved the special folders. How many
disks do you NOW have in your computer and how are they partitioned and
what drive letters are assigned to each partition?

mick wrote on 4/28/2015 3:13 PM:

You have things out of order, Mick.

The first thing I wanted to was to set up and test movving special
folders. When that was successful, I then wanted to install this SSD.

Apparently I did not clean up properly after step one.

What you should have done is copy all user sub folders and files that
you were going to relocate in the future from the old mechanical C
drive to the external drive.

I did.

You should have then deleted the files from those
folders on the old C drive that you were going to relocate later to the
new clean drive, leaving the user folders like Documents, Music, Photos
etc. still in place.

I did.

You then CLONE the old C drive with the user
folders still present but not containing any files or sub folders to
the new SSD drive. You boot from the SSD, make sure it is working ok
then format the old mechanical drive and label it as E:. THEN you
relocate the desired folders from the SSD to the E drive and finally
copy the backed up files and sub folders from the external drive into
the correct relocated folders on the E drive.

Simple, been there, got the t-shirt. What should have taken you half a
day or so to accomplish is dragging on to be a fortnight and now you
are on about changing registry entries. If all was done correctly in
the first place as suggested it would never have got 'messy' :-)

The reason it took so long is because of my age and ailments. For
example, insomnia. I would never attempt any system admin stuff after a
night of insomnia.

Yes, you told me so. You have the technical high ground. I hope that
makes you feel "special".

But now that I know what I should have done, so you have any advice
based on what I actually did?

Thanks.

On 29/04/2015 01:15:24, Alek wrote:
mick wrote on 4/28/2015 3:13 PM:

You have things out of order, Mick.

The first thing I wanted to was to set up and test movving special
folders. When that was successful, I then wanted to install this SSD.

Apparently I did not clean up properly after step one.

What you should have done is copy all user sub folders and files that
you were going to relocate in the future from the old mechanical C
drive to the external drive.

I did.

You should have then deleted the files from those
folders on the old C drive that you were going to relocate later to the
new clean drive, leaving the user folders like Documents, Music, Photos
etc. still in place.

I did.

You then CLONE the old C drive with the user
folders still present but not containing any files or sub folders to
the new SSD drive. You boot from the SSD, make sure it is working ok
then format the old mechanical drive and label it as E:. THEN you
relocate the desired folders from the SSD to the E drive and finally
copy the backed up files and sub folders from the external drive into
the correct relocated folders on the E drive.

Simple, been there, got the t-shirt. What should have taken you half a
day or so to accomplish is dragging on to be a fortnight and now you
are on about changing registry entries. If all was done correctly in
the first place as suggested it would never have got 'messy' :-)

The reason it took so long is because of my age and ailments. For
example, insomnia. I would never attempt any system admin stuff after a
night of insomnia.

Yes, you told me so. You have the technical high ground. I hope that
makes you feel "special".

No, I do not feel special in way way or form. You asked for advice in
the first instance and I, based on personal experience, and others gave
you our opinions. As you still seemed determined to go along in your
own way without heeding that advice then I see little point in asking
for it in the first place. You had your mind set on doing it your way
and nothing was going to change it, so it was reassurance of your
method which you were really asking for.

But now that I know what I should have done, so you have any advice
based on what I actually did?

No, I do not know. I have not encountered the situation you ended up
with and I would not like to suggest an answer that could well cause
further unnecessary problems.

Thanks.

You're welcome :-)
It may sound like a rant or have a go at Alek day but that was not my
intention. By all means keep trying and experimenting with computers
as it is the best way to learn and if I can help with any other queries
in the future then I will join in. Beware :-)

--
mick

mick wrote on 4/29/2015 7:40 AM:
It may sound like a rant or have a go at Alek day but that was not my
intention. By all means keep trying and experimenting with computers
as it is the best way to learn and if I can help with any other queries
in the future then I will join in. Beware :-)


Tell me this: what is gained by "I told you so!"?

VanguardLH wrote on 4/28/2015 7:06 PM:

snip

So I removed the magnetic HD that had been C:, installed the SSD and
booted Everything was fine.

So you loaded a different instance of Windows on the SSD that had no
knowledge that you moved the special folders in the other instance of
Windows.

Here's what I did.

Created the junctions with the mag drive as C and O: as the drive with
the actual folders.

Cloned the mag drive to the SSD.

Replaced the mag drive with the SSD and booted successfully.

Shutdown and installed the old mag drive as E:

Deleted the junction points (NOT rmdir, unfortunately) and created new
ones that pointed to drive E:

Went to O: and renamed the alek directory.

Downloaded something and found to my surprise that it was dl'd to
O:\alek\downloads!!

You said you moved the special folders to the 2nd HDD which was, under
that instance of Windows, assigned the drive letter of O:. Now you're
saying in the new instance of Windows from the SSD that it assigned
drive letter E: to your HDD which is expected. So where is the O: drive
from which you said you copied?

E: is an internal mag drive. O: is a USB-connected mag drive.

Just for kicks, I looked in the registry for references to the original
O: folders and found

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Explorer\Shell
Folders

Under that, I found

My Music - O:\alek\music
Personal - O:\alek\documents
{374DE290-123F-4565-9164-39C4925E467B} - O:\alek\Downloads !!!!

Ditto for
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Explorer\User Shell
Folders

VanguardLH wrote:

As I mentioned, I'm sure that process ensures the correct permissions
are assigned the new folder.

Oops, meant to say "I'm NOT sure".

Curious as to whether you have yet logged out and in of your Windows
account.

If that doesn't work, reboot the machine (no hybrid or hibernation mode
restart but a cold boot).

VanguardLH wrote on 4/29/2015 4:21 PM:
Curious as to whether you have yet logged out and in of your Windows
account.

If that doesn't work, reboot the machine (no hybrid or hibernation mode
restart but a cold boot).


Many times.

Alek wrote:

VanguardLH wrote on 4/29/2015 4:21 PM:
Curious as to whether you have yet logged out and in of your Windows
account.

If that doesn't work, reboot the machine (no hybrid or hibernation mode
restart but a cold boot).


Many times.

Not sure how it all got screwed up but maybe it's time to put it back to
the defaults. Delete the junction on the C: drive for the special
folder, use the Windows wizard to move the special folder on E: back to
C:, make sure apps and Windows Explorer see the special folder on the C:
drive, and then use the Windows wizard to move the special folder from
C: to E:. Only after experimenting that the wizard move of the special
folder worked okay would I then go create a junction on C: to the
special folder on E:.

I don't recommend moving the entire %userprofile% folder due to programs
that are hardcoded to use that path for their subfolders, like under the
AppData or ProgramData subfolders. Just move the special folders - the
ones where when you right-click on them and select Properties have a
Location tab where you change the special folders physical path.

Unless you actually have a program that uses its own hardcoded path to
the default/old My Documents, My Videos, etc special folders, I wouldn't
bother defining junctions for them back on C:. Wait until you have a
program that is too stupid to use the paths that Windows specifies in
the registry for the special folders and then try using a junction on
that special folder.