MS is broken due to piracy

On 5/5/2015 8:11 PM, cameo wrote:
On 5/5/2015 4:14 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/5/15 4:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 15:55:33 -0600, Ken Springer

wrote:

It's no wonder the US is losing leadership in so many areas. We've
raised a group of people that simply know too few basics.


OK, I'll bite. To whom, as a nation, are we "loosing leadership" (as
opposed to
voluntary abdication) and in which areas?

Pick something, Norman. LOL We used to be the leader in producing
science and math grads, now those numbers are down. We certainly aren't
the leader in manufacturing, notably steel. What about space travel?
NASA's budget has been cut over the years. We're in a ****ing match
with Russia, but they have the only manned space vehicles I'm aware of.
There's a couple of private companies sending unmanned cargo vehicles
of supplies to the space station, and the last one exploded during take
off.

When it comes to putting something is space, I'd say France, India, and
China are currently more active that we are. Nations listed in no
particular order.

How about high speed rail? There's plans for high speed passenger
trains on the west coast, the two leading countries/companies bidding on
the contract are China and Japan. Remember your history, rail was once
king, but the railroads did nothing to try to combat aviation travel.

Whenever there's a big debate about education in Washington, there's
usually a news outlet or two that dig out the stats leadership in the
world. A lot of them have the US way down on the list. We even get
beat out by countries many Americans have probably never heard of.

How about infant mortality rate. We're way down on that list.

Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to live in a country that
millions
of people are trying to get into as opposed to living in a country
from which
millions of people wish to escape.

No disagreement here. But what percentage of those folk are coming here
for political reasons, better opportunities, better anything in many
areas. But that doesn't make us the leader, we're just a better place
than where the immigrants are coming from. Much like the folks sailing
from Libya to Europe, or still from Cuba to the US.

Also remember, there's a certain percentage of those coming here that
are better educated in the areas where good jobs are to be found, and
some of those are actively recruited by US companies because American
students don't fill the bill.

Great inventions are not created by people who can't read, write, and
think. And I work with a bunch of them, sadly, of all ages. :-(

Apologies for any typos or unclear writing, I don't have time to proof
read this message.

Well said, Ken. I'd just add that though we still do have the best
universities because of funding them, but increasingly their students
and professors are foreign born. Especially their science and
engineering faculties. I can see a not too distant future where all the
high paying skilled jobs will be going to recent immigrants because
American kids just lack motivation and ambition to study hard subjects
required for those jobs.



Part of the problem started back as far as the 70's.
Seems that industry and the medical fields were involved in importing
foreign graduates to reduce salary.
This continues today, and the educated immigrants often work under
condition and pay that are better than in the country they came from.

The pay is often such that the US students choose less rigorous fields
that have comparable or better pay. It often turns out that a licensed
tradesman can make more than an engineer.

My field was electronics at heart. I retired ten years ago from an
associated field, avionics management and technical and logistics
support. When I returned from military service in the late 60's,
electrical and electronics engineers were starting to feel the pressure
from foreign immigrants. Fortunately, my military specialty and
education allowed me to obtain a job as a technician at a GE research
lab. It was not very long (about two years) that I transferred to a part
of the QC department concerned with instrumentation and automated
testing. A few years later, the local cost of living (mainly housing)
virtually doubled overnight. I elected to find another job, and went to
work for a defense contractor. The first position was as an engineering
specialist in an avionics design and development lab for the B-1A.

I ended up specifying most of the lab equipment, and then training many
of the engineers on how to use the most complex ones, as well as
building automated test systems, and conducting Mil Qual testing of the
prototypes. Even had to train the calibration lab techs on how to
calibrate and repair instrumentation. They tended to panic when they
opened instruments and found labels from the equipment mfrs that stated
that the equipment was somewhere between a hand built engineering
prototype and regular production.

Carter killed the B-1A production. A friend asked me if I'd be
interested in taking a field engineering position in Germany on another
program. Naturally, seeing the handwriting, I accepted, and then I and
my family spent several years in Germany. When the tax situation
deteriorated, it was time to move back. The company had next generation
automated systems that were being put in place at a stateside location,
so we moved back to the US.

Eventually, after several different contract positions with as many
companies, I retired about ten years ago.

The field I was in was such that the majority of legal immigrants
were not eligible or qualified, even with a degree.

Not all of my contemporaries were that fortunate. Others went into
businesses of one type or another, with the usual mixed results.

On 5/5/15 5:25 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 5/5/2015 6:02 PM, XS11E wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:

There's a Broadway play that was turned into a movie, with a
similar undercurrent. Paint Your Wagon, with Clint Eastwood and
Lee Marvin in the movie. Neither format was a real winner, but
there is one song that made it to the airwaves when the play was
running, (The Call the Wind) Maria.

Sung in the film by Harve Presnell who did a great job on it. A couple
of other songs, "I talk to the trees" and "I still see Elisha" were
sung by Clint Eastwood, a very talented musician but not much of a
singer. The song, "I was born under a wandering star" was sung by Lee
Marvin who's raspy growl made Eastwood's singing sound better!

YouTube has all the above, they're worth a listen.....


When I first heard "I was born under a wandering star" by Lee Marvin it
was so bad that I thought the disc jockey was playing a joke on his
audience.

If we're going to talk about bad voices, I don't think much of Rod
Stewart or Kim Carnes. LOL

That being said, at least Clint and Lee never claimed to be singers, AFAIK.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 5/5/15 6:11 PM, cameo wrote:
On 5/5/2015 4:14 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/5/15 4:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 15:55:33 -0600, Ken Springer

wrote:

It's no wonder the US is losing leadership in so many areas. We've
raised a group of people that simply know too few basics.


OK, I'll bite. To whom, as a nation, are we "loosing leadership" (as
opposed to
voluntary abdication) and in which areas?

Pick something, Norman. LOL We used to be the leader in producing
science and math grads, now those numbers are down. We certainly aren't
the leader in manufacturing, notably steel. What about space travel?
NASA's budget has been cut over the years. We're in a ****ing match
with Russia, but they have the only manned space vehicles I'm aware of.
There's a couple of private companies sending unmanned cargo vehicles
of supplies to the space station, and the last one exploded during take
off.

When it comes to putting something is space, I'd say France, India, and
China are currently more active that we are. Nations listed in no
particular order.

How about high speed rail? There's plans for high speed passenger
trains on the west coast, the two leading countries/companies bidding on
the contract are China and Japan. Remember your history, rail was once
king, but the railroads did nothing to try to combat aviation travel.

Whenever there's a big debate about education in Washington, there's
usually a news outlet or two that dig out the stats leadership in the
world. A lot of them have the US way down on the list. We even get
beat out by countries many Americans have probably never heard of.

How about infant mortality rate. We're way down on that list.

Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to live in a country that
millions
of people are trying to get into as opposed to living in a country
from which
millions of people wish to escape.

No disagreement here. But what percentage of those folk are coming here
for political reasons, better opportunities, better anything in many
areas. But that doesn't make us the leader, we're just a better place
than where the immigrants are coming from. Much like the folks sailing
from Libya to Europe, or still from Cuba to the US.

Also remember, there's a certain percentage of those coming here that
are better educated in the areas where good jobs are to be found, and
some of those are actively recruited by US companies because American
students don't fill the bill.

Great inventions are not created by people who can't read, write, and
think. And I work with a bunch of them, sadly, of all ages. :-(

Apologies for any typos or unclear writing, I don't have time to proof
read this message.

Well said, Ken. I'd just add that though we still do have the best
universities because of funding them, but increasingly their students
and professors are foreign born. Especially their science and
engineering faculties. I can see a not too distant future where all the
high paying skilled jobs will be going to recent immigrants because
American kids just lack motivation and ambition to study hard subjects
required for those jobs.

+1



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 5/5/15 7:20 PM, Charlie wrote:
On 5/5/2015 8:11 PM, cameo wrote:
On 5/5/2015 4:14 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/5/15 4:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 15:55:33 -0600, Ken Springer

wrote:

It's no wonder the US is losing leadership in so many areas. We've
raised a group of people that simply know too few basics.


OK, I'll bite. To whom, as a nation, are we "loosing leadership" (as
opposed to
voluntary abdication) and in which areas?

Pick something, Norman. LOL We used to be the leader in producing
science and math grads, now those numbers are down. We certainly aren't
the leader in manufacturing, notably steel. What about space travel?
NASA's budget has been cut over the years. We're in a ****ing match
with Russia, but they have the only manned space vehicles I'm aware of.
There's a couple of private companies sending unmanned cargo vehicles
of supplies to the space station, and the last one exploded during take
off.

When it comes to putting something is space, I'd say France, India, and
China are currently more active that we are. Nations listed in no
particular order.

How about high speed rail? There's plans for high speed passenger
trains on the west coast, the two leading countries/companies bidding on
the contract are China and Japan. Remember your history, rail was once
king, but the railroads did nothing to try to combat aviation travel.

Whenever there's a big debate about education in Washington, there's
usually a news outlet or two that dig out the stats leadership in the
world. A lot of them have the US way down on the list. We even get
beat out by countries many Americans have probably never heard of.

How about infant mortality rate. We're way down on that list.

Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to live in a country that
millions
of people are trying to get into as opposed to living in a country
from which
millions of people wish to escape.

No disagreement here. But what percentage of those folk are coming here
for political reasons, better opportunities, better anything in many
areas. But that doesn't make us the leader, we're just a better place
than where the immigrants are coming from. Much like the folks sailing
from Libya to Europe, or still from Cuba to the US.

Also remember, there's a certain percentage of those coming here that
are better educated in the areas where good jobs are to be found, and
some of those are actively recruited by US companies because American
students don't fill the bill.

Great inventions are not created by people who can't read, write, and
think. And I work with a bunch of them, sadly, of all ages. :-(

Apologies for any typos or unclear writing, I don't have time to proof
read this message.

Well said, Ken. I'd just add that though we still do have the best
universities because of funding them, but increasingly their students
and professors are foreign born. Especially their science and
engineering faculties. I can see a not too distant future where all the
high paying skilled jobs will be going to recent immigrants because
American kids just lack motivation and ambition to study hard subjects
required for those jobs.



Part of the problem started back as far as the 70's.
Seems that industry and the medical fields were involved in importing
foreign graduates to reduce salary.
This continues today, and the educated immigrants often work under
condition and pay that are better than in the country they came from.

Back in the 90's I predicted today's situation to my coworkers, who
thought I was nuts. Also said it will remain this way until the global
playing field levels out. I think we see some of this leveling starting
to happen. It's not well publicized, but there are strikes for better
wages and conditions in those foreign countries, even in China.

snip


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 5/5/15 7:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 17:14:46 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/5/15 4:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 15:55:33 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

It's no wonder the US is losing leadership in so many areas. We've
raised a group of people that simply know too few basics.


OK, I'll bite. To whom, as a nation, are we "loosing leadership" (as opposed to
voluntary abdication) and in which areas?

Pick something, Norman. LOL We used to be the leader in producing
science and math grads, now those numbers are down. We certainly aren't
the leader in manufacturing, notably steel. What about space travel?
NASA's budget has been cut over the years. We're in a ****ing match
with Russia, but they have the only manned space vehicles I'm aware of.
There's a couple of private companies sending unmanned cargo vehicles
of supplies to the space station, and the last one exploded during take off.

When it comes to putting something is space, I'd say France, India, and
China are currently more active that we are. Nations listed in no
particular order.

How about high speed rail? There's plans for high speed passenger
trains on the west coast, the two leading countries/companies bidding on
the contract are China and Japan. Remember your history, rail was once
king, but the railroads did nothing to try to combat aviation travel.

Whenever there's a big debate about education in Washington, there's
usually a news outlet or two that dig out the stats leadership in the
world. A lot of them have the US way down on the list. We even get
beat out by countries many Americans have probably never heard of.

How about infant mortality rate. We're way down on that list.

Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to live in a country that millions
of people are trying to get into as opposed to living in a country from which
millions of people wish to escape.

No disagreement here. But what percentage of those folk are coming here
for political reasons, better opportunities, better anything in many
areas. But that doesn't make us the leader, we're just a better place
than where the immigrants are coming from. Much like the folks sailing
from Libya to Europe, or still from Cuba to the US.

Also remember, there's a certain percentage of those coming here that
are better educated in the areas where good jobs are to be found, and
some of those are actively recruited by US companies because American
students don't fill the bill.

Great inventions are not created by people who can't read, write, and
think. And I work with a bunch of them, sadly, of all ages. :-(

Apologies for any typos or unclear writing, I don't have time to proof
read this message.


We have widely divergent perspectives on many of the areas you have mentioned,
however, I thank you for taking the time to reply.

Which is a good thing. It can lead to intelligent discussion that often
results in clearer understanding about many things. :-)

I don't pay super close attention to specific numbers any more, to many
numbers about. I just absorb and recognize trends.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 5/6/2015 12:12 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
I don't pay super close attention to specific numbers any more, to many
numbers about. I just absorb and recognize trends.

I agree, and would say that it's too easy to juggle numbers (statistics)
to seemingly prove particular viewpoints.

On 5/6/15 5:45 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 22:12:11 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/5/15 7:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 17:14:46 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/5/15 4:25 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 15:55:33 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

It's no wonder the US is losing leadership in so many areas. We've
raised a group of people that simply know too few basics.


OK, I'll bite. To whom, as a nation, are we "loosing leadership" (as opposed to
voluntary abdication) and in which areas?

Pick something, Norman. LOL We used to be the leader in producing
science and math grads, now those numbers are down. We certainly aren't
the leader in manufacturing, notably steel. What about space travel?
NASA's budget has been cut over the years. We're in a ****ing match
with Russia, but they have the only manned space vehicles I'm aware of.
There's a couple of private companies sending unmanned cargo vehicles
of supplies to the space station, and the last one exploded during take off.

When it comes to putting something is space, I'd say France, India, and
China are currently more active that we are. Nations listed in no
particular order.

How about high speed rail? There's plans for high speed passenger
trains on the west coast, the two leading countries/companies bidding on
the contract are China and Japan. Remember your history, rail was once
king, but the railroads did nothing to try to combat aviation travel.

Whenever there's a big debate about education in Washington, there's
usually a news outlet or two that dig out the stats leadership in the
world. A lot of them have the US way down on the list. We even get
beat out by countries many Americans have probably never heard of.

How about infant mortality rate. We're way down on that list.

Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to live in a country that millions
of people are trying to get into as opposed to living in a country from which
millions of people wish to escape.

No disagreement here. But what percentage of those folk are coming here
for political reasons, better opportunities, better anything in many
areas. But that doesn't make us the leader, we're just a better place
than where the immigrants are coming from. Much like the folks sailing
from Libya to Europe, or still from Cuba to the US.

Also remember, there's a certain percentage of those coming here that
are better educated in the areas where good jobs are to be found, and
some of those are actively recruited by US companies because American
students don't fill the bill.

Great inventions are not created by people who can't read, write, and
think. And I work with a bunch of them, sadly, of all ages. :-(

Apologies for any typos or unclear writing, I don't have time to proof
read this message.


We have widely divergent perspectives on many of the areas you have mentioned,
however, I thank you for taking the time to reply.

Which is a good thing. It can lead to intelligent discussion that often
results in clearer understanding about many things. :-)

I don't pay super close attention to specific numbers any more, to many
numbers about. I just absorb and recognize trends.

Where I am more interested in empirical evidence than anecdotal observations.

I wouldn't say anecdotal, more like the summary of an extensive report.
You need the empirical evidence to determine the trend, but you don't
need the evidence to summarize the overall situation.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"