Managing partitions with 'Disk Management'

On 9/20/2015 9:29 AM, FredW wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:11:14 +0100, Eternal Hope
wrote:
On 20/09/2015 12:25, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Eternal Hope
escribió:

Finally how the HELL your average entry level user could cope with all
this

You can't even cope with finding the right group to post in. None of
your problems have anything to do with Windows 7.

alt.windows10.general is that way ---------------------


*If* it exists (alt.windows10.general) eternal-september doesn't carry
it. The last post to alt.windows was in July. There is an Italian
windows10 group but I don't speak that language. I asked if it was OK to
post this stuff here and was told it was.


I am reading (and sometimes writing) for several months in:
alt.comp.os.windows-10.

IF eternal-september does no carry it (but I believe it does),
you could switch to a more up-to-date news server.



alt.comp.os.windows-10 Refresh your newsgroup list, it's there

Regards, Rene

On 20/09/2015 15:51, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:11:14 +0100, Eternal Hope wrote:

On 20/09/2015 12:25, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Eternal Hope
escribió:

Finally how the HELL your average entry level user could cope with all
this

You can't even cope with finding the right group to post in. None of
your problems have anything to do with Windows 7.

alt.windows10.general is that way ---------------------


*If* it exists (alt.windows10.general) eternal-september doesn't carry
it. The last post to alt.windows was in July. There is an Italian
windows10 group but I don't speak that language. I asked if it was OK to
post this stuff here and was told it was.

Bitch and whine somewhere else

alt.comp.os.windows-10

Thank you all for pointing me to that group
I'm now subscribed to both alt.comp.os.windows-10 and
alt.comp.os.windows-8 however it was't really about 10 (or indeed 8) it
was more about *general* issues regarding the whole Microsoft

"we're not giving you hard copy anymore you have to figure it out
yourself now" attitude

and how every manufacturer does things differently and how it's not
really the sort of thing your general neophyte user can cope with.

Anyway, I splashed out on a 64GB USB3 stick, I fired up the Lenovo
Solution Centre and clicked 'create recovery media'

so that I could

"Use recovery media to restore your system to the original factory state"

I'll be interested to see how the system is returned to factory state
given that the *backup* (that's what they call it) was made after the
upgrade ...

Anyway, I'm now going to boot the thing with an old Ubuntu 12.04LTS live
CD and see if I can mount some of these 'hidden' partitions/disk areas.
I'm kinda hoping that the 12.52GB 'Recovery Partition' containes a
bootable iso image.

The *backup* application wrote 22.5GB to the stick, the key file is
apparently 'backup.wsi' which according to Lenovo stands for Windows
System Image it's 4KB of XML that contains information about the
partitions so I don't think it's bootable :-) There are a load of other
fies in there, I haven't figured out what they are.

Now where's that Ubu live CD



--
Laughing Spam Fritter

En el artículo , Eternal Hope
escribió:

*If* it exists (alt.windows10.general)

It does. That you're too stupid to find it isn't my problem.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

En el artículo , Eternal Hope
escribió:

it
was more about *general* issues regarding the whole Microsoft

So post in a more appropriate group, tithead.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On 20/09/2015 17:08, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Eternal Hope
escribió:

*If* it exists (alt.windows10.general)

It does. That you're too stupid to find it isn't my problem.

Ah yes, insults, how quaint.


--
Laughing Spam Fritter

En el artículo , FredW
escribió:

A friendly word does wonders.

Sure does.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On 20/09/2015 17:08, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Eternal Hope
escribió:

*If* it exists (alt.windows10.general)

It does. That you're too stupid to find it isn't my problem.

Ah yes, insults, how quaint.


--
Laughing Spam Fritter

On 19/09/2015 11:53 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Yousuf Khan
writes:
On 19/09/2015 5:19 AM, Eternal Hope wrote:
how the hell your average entry level user could cope with this is
completely beyond me.

We've all started out as entry level users at one time. We become
advanced users by staying calm and working through it.

Yes, but Eternal's point was/is, I think, that the industry - or
whatever we call the amorphous entity that includes the hardware
manufacturers, Microsoft (et al.), and ourselves - has evolved, to the
extent that there now _is_ the concept of an "entry level user", who
expects to buy a computer, turn it on, and use it. (To be fair, this
_is_ closer to the truth than it once was.) Those of us who started all
those decades ago, did so in a different world, where you _expected_ to
have to work at it.

There were always entry level users, even in the DOS days. There were
scads of DOS users that wouldn't know how to get into their WordPerfect
without some "spod" somewhere having created a batch file menuing system
for them to load up WordPerfect for them. Without that batch menu, they
had no idea what to do with the command-prompt.

What I found annoying though was why somebody who calls themselves a
"developer" would find this so difficult. Developers in my day were by
extension already advanced users. If he had described himself as an
entry level user, then I wouldn't have found this so grating.

Yousuf Khan

On 19/09/2015 12:56 PM, Eternal Hope wrote:
On 19/09/2015 15:10, Yousuf Khan wrote:
Okay, so first thing, if you want to get a recovery thing going, then
why are you trying to backup? Those two are the exact opposite actions.

That's an execellent question.

According to the 'One Key Recovery' Application

System Backup

"back up your system partition to an image file. In case of system
failure you can restore your system from this image file"

Now what does that say to you?

So One Key Recovery has no "System Restore" option in it too?

Now think what your average user might think when they see that
The little 25GB D: drive is known as a recovery partition. It contains
the original image of the version of Windows that came with that
computer. It really shouldn't even have a drive letter assigned to it,
but sometimes during a system reset it gets assigned a drive letter
automatically.

That drive contains no image file, it does contain a directory called
'Applications' that contains a directory called McAfee that contains a
number of directories that contain identical dlls ... not a clue.

It also cantains a 'drivers' directory containing ... drivers

The rest of the drive is empty.

So this is what a Windows 7 installation DVD's root folder looks like:

21/11/2010 04:33 AM DIR boot
21/11/2010 04:33 AM DIR efi
21/11/2010 04:33 AM DIR sources
21/11/2010 04:33 AM DIR support
21/11/2010 04:33 AM DIR upgrade
21/11/2010 04:33 AM 122 autorun.inf
21/11/2010 04:33 AM 383,786 bootmgr
21/11/2010 04:33 AM 669,568 bootmgr.efi
21/11/2010 04:33 AM 106,768 setup.exe

And this is what a Windows 10 installation DVD's root folder looks like:

13/08/2015 06:47 PM DIR boot
13/08/2015 06:47 PM DIR efi
10/07/2015 09:39 AM DIR x64
10/07/2015 07:17 AM DIR x86
17/06/2015 09:15 PM 128 autorun.inf
10/07/2015 01:30 AM 395,268 bootmgr
10/07/2015 01:07 AM 1,152,864 bootmgr.efi
10/07/2015 12:40 AM 79,552 setup.exe

I don't have access to a Windows 8/8.1 media, so I can't also list that,
but I assume it's pretty similar to the above two. Common features to
both: "boot" & "efi" folders, and "autorun.inf", "bootmgr",
"bootmgr.efi" & "setup.exe"

So none of those files or folders show up in that partition?

I have posted an graphical image showing a screen shot of Disk
Management http://imgur.com/CYgls75

If you would prefer here are the stats

1000 MB, Healthy (Recovery Partition)
260 MB, Healthy (EFI system partition)
1000 MB, Healthy (OEM Partition)
Windows8_OS (C, 891,66 GB NTFS, Healthy, (Boot, Page File, Crash Dump,
Primary Partition)
LENOVO (D, 25 GB NTFS, Healthy (Primary Partition)
12.52 GB, Healthy (Recovery Partition)

I *think* this last 'hidden' partition is where the recovery image is
but as yet I have no idea how to get at it.

I'm off to Google "access a hidden windows partition"

I have to say this is fascinating stuff. Can you 'mount' an unamed
partition in Windows in a similar way as you mount a filesystem in *NIX?
How would you address it?

Yes, you can. Two ways to access it, both done through the Disk
Management control panel. First is the traditional, assign a drive
letter to it. Second, mount it under a subfolder on the C: drive.

Oh yes, I've just discovered another application called 'Lenovo
Solutions Centre'that appears to have an alert against 'Backup' but none
against 'Recovery Media' curiouser and curiouser.

Try this. It seems to show a pre-boot menu item that lets you boot to
the recovery partition before Windows even starts.

How to use the pre-boot service partition to recover your software -
Lenovo Support (US)
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-4ufuyk

Yousuf Khan

On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 23:23:48 -0400, Yousuf Khan
wrote:

On 19/09/2015 11:53 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Yousuf Khan
writes:
On 19/09/2015 5:19 AM, Eternal Hope wrote:
how the hell your average entry level user could cope with this is
completely beyond me.

We've all started out as entry level users at one time. We become
advanced users by staying calm and working through it.

Yes, but Eternal's point was/is, I think, that the industry - or
whatever we call the amorphous entity that includes the hardware
manufacturers, Microsoft (et al.), and ourselves - has evolved, to the
extent that there now _is_ the concept of an "entry level user", who
expects to buy a computer, turn it on, and use it. (To be fair, this
_is_ closer to the truth than it once was.) Those of us who started all
those decades ago, did so in a different world, where you _expected_ to
have to work at it.

There were always entry level users, even in the DOS days. There were
scads of DOS users that wouldn't know how to get into their WordPerfect
without some "spod" somewhere having created a batch file menuing system
for them to load up WordPerfect for them. Without that batch menu, they
had no idea what to do with the command-prompt.

There were *more* entry-level users back then because fewer people had
computers.

I started a CIG (Computer Interest Group) for the Genealogical Society
of South Africa because most genealogists did not have computers and
had no idea how much time and effort could be saved by using a
genealogy program to store their data.

Now you find that the majority have no idea how to find information
unless it's on the internet. You are more likely to find computer
users who are entry-level genealogists than the other way round.






What I found annoying though was why somebody who calls themselves a
"developer" would find this so difficult. Developers in my day were by
extension already advanced users. If he had described himself as an
entry level user, then I wouldn't have found this so grating.

Yousuf Khan

--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 19/09/2015 10:19, Eternal Hope wrote:
We have been donated a brand new lap top
FWIW it's a 64 bit Lenovo G50 it's supposedly an entry level pc

snip


Finally how the HELL your average entry level user could cope with all
this is compeletely beyond me.

TIA


This is a bit worrying and very disappointing and is an issue with some
of our Windows 7 laptops as well as the new Lenovo 8.1/10 device

I thought I'd post my findings in case anyone else is interested.
If you are not interested then just don't read any further.

I booted the Lenovo from a live Linux USB and mounted the 4 hidden
partitions. Once mounted I had a poke around and found all sorts of
stuff but nothing that I recognize as being a bootable image like an iso
for example.

I have undertaken the recommended recovery process and ended up with
bunch of files in a directory on C (D, the recommended drive was too
small). I repeated the exercise and have the backup/recovery fileset on
a usb. This fileset does not appear to contain any bootable items so I
can only assume it is used by some proprietary vendor specific recovery
program somewhere in one of the hidden partitions.

The question is, what happens when the hard disk fails?
I can't find anything that I recognize as bootable, if I could I'd copy
it onto the usb and then I'd have a bootable image to use when the disk
dies and a 'backup' fileset that I could use to restore the system if
something other than a catastrophic disk failure occurred.

Is this the normal state of affairs in your experience?
If the disk dies does one have to pay for a 'new' installation media?
I was under the impression that you could only reinstall Windows from an
image that contained the same EFI key

I have asked a similar question on the Lenovo forums without response.

TIA


--
Laughing Spam Fritter

"Eternal Hope" wrote in message
...
On 19/09/2015 10:19, Eternal Hope wrote:
We have been donated a brand new lap top
FWIW it's a 64 bit Lenovo G50 it's supposedly an entry level pc

snip


Finally how the HELL your average entry level user could cope with all
this is compeletely beyond me.

TIA


This is a bit worrying and very disappointing and is an issue with some of
our Windows 7 laptops as well as the new Lenovo 8.1/10 device

I thought I'd post my findings in case anyone else is interested.
If you are not interested then just don't read any further.

I booted the Lenovo from a live Linux USB and mounted the 4 hidden
partitions. Once mounted I had a poke around and found all sorts of stuff
but nothing that I recognize as being a bootable image like an iso for
example.

I have undertaken the recommended recovery process and ended up with bunch
of files in a directory on C (D, the recommended drive was too small). I
repeated the exercise and have the backup/recovery fileset on a usb. This
fileset does not appear to contain any bootable items so I can only assume
it is used by some proprietary vendor specific recovery program somewhere
in one of the hidden partitions.

The question is, what happens when the hard disk fails?
I can't find anything that I recognize as bootable, if I could I'd copy it
onto the usb and then I'd have a bootable image to use when the disk dies
and a 'backup' fileset that I could use to restore the system if something
other than a catastrophic disk failure occurred.

Is this the normal state of affairs in your experience?
If the disk dies does one have to pay for a 'new' installation media?
I was under the impression that you could only reinstall Windows from an
image that contained the same EFI key

I have asked a similar question on the Lenovo forums without response.

TIA

What's all the fuss about? You need to buy or get a usb hard drive and get a
back up program: paid or free Easus Todo or Macrium Reflect. Problem
solved.

Just clone the whole disk and make an emergency CD or flash drive. You can
then recover individual files or do a bare metal restore. Why are you
trying to stuff 40 gigs into a 20 gig recovery partition? Why are you
wasting time trying to make the recovery partition
bigger?

On 27/09/2015 02:41, SPD wrote:
"Eternal Hope" wrote in message
...
On 19/09/2015 10:19, Eternal Hope wrote:
We have been donated a brand new lap top
FWIW it's a 64 bit Lenovo G50 it's supposedly an entry level pc

snip

Just clone the whole disk and make an emergency CD or flash drive. You can
then recover individual files or do a bare metal restore. Why are you
trying to stuff 40 gigs into a 20 gig recovery partition? Why are you
wasting time trying to make the recovery partition
bigger?

Before you get all excited let me say that the following statements I
make regarding the average ability of the average user have been formed
over the past 5 years as a volunteer. Most people couldn't care less how
their computer works ... until it breaks down for whatever reason.

I'm simply trying to imagine what a non-technical user, who after all
makes up some large majority of the Windows user cohort would make of
the incredibly confusing and frustrating 'recovery' process.

There still doesn't seem to be any standard, easy to achieve way that
your average home user can make a bootable device so that thay can
recover their system in the event of

a) A damaged Windows partition
b) A catastrophic disk failure

There used to be a way, it was called an 'installation disk' that came
with the machine and everyone could just use OOTB but we don't have
those anymore do we?

At the very least a vendor should provide instructions tailored to the
particular machine (there are as many different was to achieve or
partially achieved this end as there are manufacturers)

Actually I think it suits Micro$oft to have this state of affairs. Most
people will probably just go and buy another machine and another
Micro$oft licence.

Thank $DEITY for Linux






--
Laughing Spam Fritter

Eternal Hope wrote:
On 27/09/2015 02:41, SPD wrote:
"Eternal Hope" wrote in message
...
On 19/09/2015 10:19, Eternal Hope wrote:
We have been donated a brand new lap top
FWIW it's a 64 bit Lenovo G50 it's supposedly an entry level pc

snip

Just clone the whole disk and make an emergency CD or flash drive.
You can
then recover individual files or do a bare metal restore. Why are you
trying to stuff 40 gigs into a 20 gig recovery partition? Why are you
wasting time trying to make the recovery partition
bigger?

Before you get all excited let me say that the following statements I
make regarding the average ability of the average user have been formed
over the past 5 years as a volunteer. Most people couldn't care less how
their computer works ... until it breaks down for whatever reason.

I'm simply trying to imagine what a non-technical user, who after all
makes up some large majority of the Windows user cohort would make of
the incredibly confusing and frustrating 'recovery' process.

There still doesn't seem to be any standard, easy to achieve way that
your average home user can make a bootable device so that thay can
recover their system in the event of

a) A damaged Windows partition
b) A catastrophic disk failure

There used to be a way, it was called an 'installation disk' that came
with the machine and everyone could just use OOTB but we don't have
those anymore do we?

At the very least a vendor should provide instructions tailored to the
particular machine (there are as many different was to achieve or
partially achieved this end as there are manufacturers)

Actually I think it suits Micro$oft to have this state of affairs. Most
people will probably just go and buy another machine and another
Micro$oft licence.

Thank $DEITY for Linux

That's funny.

I have media for everything here.

WinXP
Vista SP2
Win7
Win7 Sp1
Win8
Win8.1
Win10

And I don't even have an MSDN subscription.

At the current time, you can download Win10 media
and not have to provide a license key while doing so.

You can download Win8 media, by offering your license
key as the proof of purchase.

Win7 media was available from DigitalRiver for several
years, but the servers are shut off now. You need to
keep your Clue Hat on, to get some of them.

MSDN subscription DVDs are available as Torrents. As
long as you have an SHA1 checksum to check for adulteration,
you also have the option of getting them via Torrent.
And the DVDs tend to be the universal type, so the
Win7 DVD would contain file "image" sections, and
be able to install Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate etc.

The basic idea is, when media is discovered to be
"on offer", get it. No matter if you have no
immediate need. Just grab a copy and add to your
archive. The example with Windows 7 is the
cautionary tale - while DigitalRiver was a popular
option, we knew it could not last forever (because
DigitalRiver was an official Microsoft OS seller,
and would have to stop offering that OS at some
point).

Paul

On 28/09/2015 08:51, Paul wrote:
Eternal Hope wrote:
On 27/09/2015 02:41, SPD wrote:
"Eternal Hope" wrote in message
...
On 19/09/2015 10:19, Eternal Hope wrote:
We have been donated a brand new lap top
FWIW it's a 64 bit Lenovo G50 it's supposedly an entry level pc

snip

At the very least a vendor should provide instructions tailored to the
particular machine (there are as many different was to achieve or
partially achieved this end as there are manufacturers)

Actually I think it suits Micro$oft to have this state of affairs.
Most people will probably just go and buy another machine and another
Micro$oft licence.

Thank $DEITY for Linux

That's funny.

No it isn't.

I have media for everything here.

WinXP
Vista SP2
Win7
Win7 Sp1
Win8
Win8.1
Win10

I have all sorts of stuff lying about including an unopened copy of WFW
3.11 still in it's shipping packaging but it's not about me it's about
the average non-technical user having to make the effort (and find the
time) to understand the often less that obvious solution to a problem
most of them don't realize they have until it all goes tits up.

At the moment, each time someone comes in with a laptop I'm asking them
if they have ever made any backups or created any recovery media. Only
once has someone actually understood the question.

The 'solution' offered by the sheds is

'sign up for our extended warrenty/support package/help line whatever
and pay a monthly fee, forever, just in case something goes wrong'

Unsurprisingly many people do this only to be told when they try to
claim that their specific problem isn't covered or that it'll be a two
week wait to get their machine back.

If it was down to me I'd make a whole bunch of ISOs and burn them to CD
or USB and just hand them out as required but I can't do that as if the
council found out I was 'pirating' software they'd probably pull our
funding.

All this just to save a few cents on a bit of plastic, and don't tell me
it's about stopping piracy. Ever heard of TOR.


--
Laughing Spam Fritter