Dell 8200 HD problems:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast Professional,
Windows Defender and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 with XP, SP3, with Spywareblaster,
Avast, Malwarebytes and Windows firewall.


Seagate Barracuda 7200 160 Gb HD
Intel (R) Pentium (R) 4 CPU 1.80 GHz
Ram 1.79 GHz, 1.00 GB of RAM
System type : 32-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

Seagate Backup Plus 1(TB) 2.5 USB Portable HD

WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

The problem is with the 8200; what happened was this.
I had it running an Avast scan but the screen went
black because I hadn't moved the mouse which is usually
no problem, right? Well, for whatever reason I could
not get the screen to respond so I finally just powered
it off.

When I powered it up, it gave me a choice of logging
on in the safe mode(s) or normal which I selected
but it keeps looping so I did a F8 and selected last
known configuration where settings worked but it
is looping.

So do I need to install a Mrimg file?

Thanks
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast Professional,
Windows Defender and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 with XP, SP3, with Spywareblaster,
Avast, Malwarebytes and Windows firewall.


Seagate Barracuda 7200 160 Gb HD
Intel (R) Pentium (R) 4 CPU 1.80 GHz
Ram 1.79 GHz, 1.00 GB of RAM
System type : 32-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

Seagate Backup Plus 1(TB) 2.5 USB Portable HD

WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

The problem is with the 8200; what happened was this.
I had it running an Avast scan but the screen went
black because I hadn't moved the mouse which is usually
no problem, right? Well, for whatever reason I could
not get the screen to respond so I finally just powered
it off.

When I powered it up, it gave me a choice of logging
on in the safe mode(s) or normal which I selected
but it keeps looping so I did a F8 and selected last
known configuration where settings worked but it
is looping.

So do I need to install a Mrimg file?

Thanks
Robert

Restore from backup, is a relatively easy way
to fix a computer.

I hope you have a backup with a recent date on it,
your Macrium Reflect Free boot CD for the 8200 is
ready to go.

The only thing bad about Restore From Backup, is
it doesn't preserve your Bookmarks file. The age of
the Bookmarks, will be the age of the backup file.
If you made the backup two weeks ago, the bookmarks
will be two weeks out of date.

If you boot the Macrium Reflect Free boot CD, and
you look in the lower left corner, there is a
blue icon. That icon is for "Macrium PE Explorer",
a kind of file explorer. With your internal drive
inside the 8200, and your connected external USB drive,
start the Macrium PE Explorer (blue icon) and attempt to
navigate around the 8200 internal drive C: partition. If you
can figure out where the Bookmarks file is that
you want, you can click it, and use the right-click menu
to select "Copy". Then, navigate to the external drive
as your destination, right-click into an empty folder
pane and select "Paste" from the right-click menu.
In that way, it is possible to copy a file from the
"broken" setup, before you do the Restore From Backup
attempt.

Paul

On 02/21/2016 06:55 AM, Mark Twain wrote:

snip

When I powered it up, it gave me a choice of logging
on in the safe mode(s) or normal which I selected
but it keeps looping so I did a F8 and selected last
known configuration where settings worked but it
is looping.

So do I need to install a Mrimg file?

Thanks
Robert




Before you restore from image, you may want to just try booting from a
utility cd and run chkdsk /f


Hirens boot cd has a mini xp install you can use

I wasn't worried too much about bookmarks
as its only a backup so I was going to
just do a Mrimg but the 8200 didn't acknowledge
the external HD when I connected it and I
tired twice. So my only recourse I suppose
is to replace the HD with the 320GB spare
we already set up.


Thoughts?
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I wasn't worried too much about bookmarks
as its only a backup so I was going to
just do a Mrimg but the 8200 didn't acknowledge
the external HD when I connected it and I
tired twice. So my only recourse I suppose
is to replace the HD with the 320GB spare
we already set up.


Thoughts?
Robert

So when you:

1) Connected the external USB drive to the 8200.
2) Booted the correct Macrium CD for the 8200.
3) And it couldn't detect the USB drive then ?

Is that what happened ?

Paul

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 11:28:19 PM UTC-8, Paul wrote:
Mark Twain wrote:
I wasn't worried too much about bookmarks
as its only a backup so I was going to
just do a Mrimg but the 8200 didn't acknowledge
the external HD when I connected it and I
tired twice. So my only recourse I suppose
is to replace the HD with the 320GB spare
we already set up.


Thoughts?
Robert

So when you:

1) Connected the external USB drive to the 8200.
2) Booted the correct Macrium CD for the 8200.
3) And it couldn't detect the USB drive then ?

Is that what happened ?

Paul

correct

Mark Twain wrote:
On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 11:28:19 PM UTC-8, Paul wrote:
Mark Twain wrote:
I wasn't worried too much about bookmarks
as its only a backup so I was going to
just do a Mrimg but the 8200 didn't acknowledge
the external HD when I connected it and I
tired twice. So my only recourse I suppose
is to replace the HD with the 320GB spare
we already set up.


Thoughts?
Robert
So when you:

1) Connected the external USB drive to the 8200.
2) Booted the correct Macrium CD for the 8200.
3) And it couldn't detect the USB drive then ?

Is that what happened ?

Paul

correct

When the USB backup drive is connect to your
other computer, is it detected there ? I'm checking
to see if the drive failed.

How the Macrium CD is prepared, can affect how
a USB3 port works on a computer. As far as I know,
your 8200 has USB2 and USB 1.1. And the USB2 was
by means of a PCI card with USB2 chip on it. AFAIK,
the WinPE environment knows how to initialize the
PCI card type for USB2, at a minimum.

On my test machine right now, with Macrium CD booted,
there is the blue "PE Explorer" icon in the lower left
corner (third from the left), and when I click and
use that, my USB drive is visible in the Removable Media
section. Which secion of PE Explorer it is in, will depend
on the RMB (removable media) bit. So your drive might be
in the top section of the window, while my USB is in the
bottom section.

HTH,
Paul

You know, I didn't even think to check the
external HD. So I plugged it into the 8500
and its fine and the 8500 recognized it.

So must have damaged the 8200 HD but I still
can't understand why the mouse didn't light
light the screen as usual and I moved it allot
and nothing.

Luckily I do have a spare HD still,..

Thoughts?
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
You know, I didn't even think to check the
external HD. So I plugged it into the 8500
and its fine and the 8500 recognized it.

So must have damaged the 8200 HD but I still
can't understand why the mouse didn't light
light the screen as usual and I moved it allot
and nothing.

Luckily I do have a spare HD still,..

Thoughts?
Robert

Is the 8200 alive enough to get to the BIOS screen ?

You're sure it's just the content on the 8200 hard
drive which isn't any good now ? Or is something
more wrong with the machine at the moment ?
Did the diagnostic LEDs on the 8200 have
a bad pattern on them ?

You have the materials to use your carefully prepared
backup disk, with the emergency copy of C: staged
on it. The one that allows you to get back up and
running, right after you physically install it inside
the computer.

It definitely sounds like a plan.

Then you can work on the busted drive, and
see exactly how busted it actually is.

Paul

Yes, I can get to the BIOS screen

I'm just assuming it's the HD, if
it's the motherboard or something
else I wouldn't know. All I know it
keeps cycling in a loop.

Even if I change HD how can I work
on the busted HD when I remove it?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Yes, I can get to the BIOS screen

I'm just assuming it's the HD, if
it's the motherboard or something
else I wouldn't know. All I know it
keeps cycling in a loop.

Even if I change HD how can I work
on the busted HD when I remove it?

Robert

If the machine has two ribbon cables,
you may be able to temporarily use one
of the ribbon cables to "talk" to the
busted drive. While the good drive is
on the other cable.

The hardest part of doing that, is usually
getting the mounting hardware (rail kit)
right. To mount a 3.5" drive in a 5.25"
bay, you need adapter brackets. For example,
these fill the space from a 3.5", to make it
fit a 5.25" space. They make the hard drive,
exactly as wide as an optical drive.

http://www.ebuyer.com/124153-startec...racket-bracket

Then, there are "slides" that you affix to the
side of a drive. Each case uses a slightly
different scheme, a mixture of plastic and/or metal,
so that the drive can slide into the bay, before
you connect the cabling to the drive.

So those are a few details of how the drive fits.

*******

With both the good and bad drives in the machine,
with their sizes known (one 320GB, one 120GB or
whatever), you enter the BIOS and use the hot key
to get to the BIOS setup. Then work on the boot
order, so that the good drive is the one that boots.
As long as you booted the good drive by itself at
least once after you created it, it should be safe
to mix the drives.

So at the moment, the sequence would be:

1) Remove bad drive. Install good drive. Boot with good
drive and verify no other hardware failures have happened.

2) Shut down, install bad drive again. Put it on the second
ribbon cable if you want. Power up, enter the BIOS,
verify the good drive is still the one to boot from.

3) Now, with system booted, you can have a look at the bad
drive. Are partitions visible in Disk Management ?
Do all the files seem to be there ? And so on. COpy
Bookmarks or whatever, off the bad drive to the bood
drive, at a minimum. Then work on your next step, whatever
that is.

HTH,
Paul

replaced the 160GB HD with the 320GB HD and
the 8200 beeped and the display lights show
A and B orange and C and D green which indicates
I have memory but there's a problem with it.


I already had booted with this drive so it
is got an OS and should be ready to go.

Robert

btw the screen never came on so I had no recourse
but to press the power switch and hold it to power
the 8200 down.

So with the 160 HD the screen came on but it didn't
complete the boot process and the 320HD doesn't
even get to the boot stage and the screen stayed
black.


Thoughts/Suggestions?
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
replaced the 160GB HD with the 320GB HD and
the 8200 beeped and the display lights show
A and B orange and C and D green which indicates
I have memory but there's a problem with it.


I already had booted with this drive so it
is got an OS and should be ready to go.

Robert

It's important to first look at the manual and see
how many different memory error codes there are. And
how those relate to a conventional computer. I'm trying
to interpret what failure cases these might relate
to, in terms of how that RAM type works.

A B C D
Yellow Yellow Green Green Memory failed to be sized or enabled ---

Green Yellow Green Yellow Memory modules are detected,
but a memory configuration or
compatibility error exists.

Green Yellow Yellow Yellow No memory modules are detected

So we know some ways to get the middle code. With the RAMBUS
stuff, there is a need to have continuity in a loop of memory
chips. And if the CDIMM was not in place for example, that
would give the middle code. And you didn't get that error.

And the last error, would be a SPD (Serial Presence Detect) related
error code. If that pattern showed up, the motherboard cannot
get configuration info from the little SPD chip on each module.
And you didn't get that code. For example, if the SMBUS serial
bus was shorted out, then no attempts to read anything on that
bus would work, and then you'd get the third code.

So that leaves a few possibilities for why the first code
shows up. You could have two RDIMMs, two CDIMMs, and only
the SPD on one RDIMM is being read. Or, the SPD on both
RDIMMs is read correctly, the BIOS does the sizing memory
test (traditional peek & poke test) and detected the failure
that way. A memory error on one DIMM caused the peek & poke
to conclude the memory channels are not "matched".

1) I'm sure by now, you've completely powered off the 8200,
by switching off at the back. Just in case some gremlin
needs to be cleared in the chipset.

2) You can (while taking ESD precautions), pop out the RDIMM and
re-seat it. You do that with the power switched off at the back,
or for a computer with no switch on the rear of the chassis,
pull the power plug from the wall outlet. You don't want power
on the system, because in soft-off state, the RAM slot can still
have DC power on it. With power fully off, you can try
re-seating the RDIMM.

If desperate, it's possible the computer will run with just the
CRIMM and RDIMM plugged into one channel, and the CRIMM and RDIMM
in the other channel removed entirely for a test. That cuts
the memory in half, but eliminates the need for the BIOS to
detect a matching dual channel config. For example, if the
BIOS detected 512MB on Channel0, and only detected 256MB on
Channel1 (because peek & poke method could not complete
the test), then removing the contents of one channel *might*
make a difference.

You'll know your attempts at re-config are not working, if
you get "Green Yellow Green Yellow", as that means one
of the channels doesn't have "continuity". If a channel is
populated, both slots in that channel have to be filled
with "something". For example, maybe you could change from
your existing...

Channel0 Channel1
CDIMM CDIMM
RDIMM RDIMM

to a config like this. Which is a way to eliminate one
channel from the picture, and no longer run in dual channel
mode. If there was a peek & poke error, the machine might
safely run with mis-detected RAM amount. Remember though,
that at least one of the two Intel RAMBUS chipsets, has
a limit on total memory chips. 24 chips total on a channel,
meaning maybe a 512MB module and a 256MB module. As at least
one of the chipsets wasn't really rated for 32 chips on a
channel caused by two (double sided) 16 chip 512MB memory
modules. So perhaps a 512MB plus 256MB module on a single
channel, might work.

Channel0 Channel1
RDIMM empty --- say, detects 512MB
RDIMM empty --- say, detects only 256MB

Or run it like this, just removing one side.

Channel0 Channel1
CDIMM empty
RDIMM empty --- say, detects 512MB

*******

When the computer starts, and the BIOS runs, not only does the
BIOS "size" the memory two ways (by SPD, then verify with peek &
poke test), but it also writes the DMI/ESCD area of the BIOS chip
with the newly detected configuration. If the memory configuration
is stable and has not changed, then no writes need be done. If
the BIOS is "confused", it can be writing the DMI/ESCD every
time the computer starts. After the computer is ten or fifteen
years old, the BIOS EEPROM can be nearing exhaustion from
having the DMI/ESCD segment written over and over again.
And I don't know what the symptoms might be if that happens,
or if the BIOS even cares. I'm mentioning this possibility
for the sake of completeness. The workaround for this situation,
is to pull the BIOS chip from its socket and have it "cloned"
to a newly purchased BIOS chip. A web site like badflash.com
is an example of a site that specializes in preparing fresh
BIOS chips. The era of your machine, the BIOS chip might be
easily popped out of a socket it is sitting in.

It might take something like a Port 80 display card, to extract
more visual information from the attempted BIOS POST. Both the Port 80
method, and the four diagnostic LEDs on the 8200, fall short of
really telling you what is going on, but they're the best you've
got to work with.

Another way to "tickle" the DMI/ESCD, would be to change
the bus order.

Channel0 Channel1
CDIMM CDIMM
RDIMM RDIMM

By swapping the modules on their respective channels, you
could do this.

Channel0 Channel1
RDIMM RDIMM
CDIMM CDIMM

When the DMI/ESCD is being considered for update, the original
recorded config would say.

Slot1 empty
Slot2 empty
Slot3 512MB
Slot4 512MB

And after swapping the two modules in their respective channels
(and not getting a "Green Yellow Green Yellow" by putting them
in the wrong holes), the DMI/ESCD would record...

Slot1 512MB
Slot2 512MB
Slot3 empty
Slot4 empty

The DMI/ESCD doesn't just record the total memory (which hasn't
changed in this example), it also records which slot the memory
is in. And it does this for corporations that run DMI scans
on computers at night, and take "inventory". It's to detect
when users screw around with the memory in a computer.

The DMI/ESCD is not important from a usage point of view,
and I don't want you to get fixated on this (potential)
problem. I really can't remember the last time anyone
cared about this stuff. But on a really old computer,
if the computer was never working right in the first
place, so many writes can occur to the BIOS flash chip
in the DMI/ESCD storage area, that the chip can no longer
record changes properly. And that (might) cause the BIOS
to get ****ed off.

Anyway, that should give you some ideas on things to
try. Either simplify the situation, so the machine
has less stuff to check, or totally reconfig in
an attempt to remove the (defective) memory from
the picture. You might have had two 512MB RDIMMs
and two 256MB RDIMMs in your possession, so you
have plenty of materials for some config changes,
as well as the two CDIMMs for when the slots
are not being used.

Paul

I took out the two older ram which were
empty I can't remember what you called
them but single sided and left the 2
double sided for 50% max, but it still
gave me the same coes,. so I need to switch
or try the double sided one by one?

Robert