O.T. Slow Start-up

Micky,

Can I plug the SD card into a USB card reader and run CHKDSK??

Yes, you can.

Just do not enable any kind of "surface check", as that won't help you (the
SD card itself should handle non-readable sector problems).

It might however cause the filesystem itself to be checked, and eventual
illegal references and/or file-size problems to be found and repaired. How
well they get repaired depends on the filesystem on the SD card itself
though.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


-- Origional message:
Micky schreef in berichtnieuws
...
[Default] On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 07:05:59 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Paul wrote:


While it is fun to run CHKDSK, your system
eventually recovers. You don't indicate any
"killer" errors, so it doesn't sound like the boot
stopped dead. I would certainly use CHKDSK, if
I had been power-cycling the computer in an
attempt to regain control.

Gulp, I turned off my cell phone while it was doing something and when
i restarted it, it said something like "SD error, consider
reformatting".

But it's only said that about 3 times out of 12 that I've started the
phone since then, and everything in the phone seems to work, so far.

Even if it said it all the time, if this were a computer drive, I
would run chkdsk before I reformatted. Can I plug the SD card into a
USB card reader and run CHKDSK??

In message , Micky
writes
[Default] On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 07:05:59 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Paul wrote:


While it is fun to run CHKDSK, your system
eventually recovers. You don't indicate any
"killer" errors, so it doesn't sound like the boot
stopped dead. I would certainly use CHKDSK, if
I had been power-cycling the computer in an
attempt to regain control.

Gulp, I turned off my cell phone while it was doing something and when
i restarted it, it said something like "SD error, consider
reformatting".

But it's only said that about 3 times out of 12 that I've started the
phone since then, and everything in the phone seems to work, so far.

Even if it said it all the time, if this were a computer drive, I
would run chkdsk before I reformatted. Can I plug the SD card into a
USB card reader and run CHKDSK??

I'd copy the contents of the card to a PC, and then re-format it (the
card - not the PC!). If you still want the contents on the card, you can
copy it back.
--
Ian

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:47:11 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Micky
writes
[Default] On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 07:05:59 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Paul wrote:


While it is fun to run CHKDSK, your system
eventually recovers. You don't indicate any
"killer" errors, so it doesn't sound like the boot
stopped dead. I would certainly use CHKDSK, if
I had been power-cycling the computer in an
attempt to regain control.

Gulp, I turned off my cell phone while it was doing something and when
i restarted it, it said something like "SD error, consider
reformatting".

But it's only said that about 3 times out of 12 that I've started the
phone since then, and everything in the phone seems to work, so far.

Even if it said it all the time, if this were a computer drive, I
would run chkdsk before I reformatted. Can I plug the SD card into a
USB card reader and run CHKDSK??

I'd copy the contents of the card to a PC, and then re-format it (the
card - not the PC!). If you still want the contents on the card, you can
copy it back.

If there is more than a hint of a problem with any Flash memory, I
would chuck it. From my experience, it will fail again. They do go bad
and it shows up as an intermittent ghost that will continue to haunt
you.

In message ,
writes
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:47:11 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Micky
writes
[Default] On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 07:05:59 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Paul wrote:


While it is fun to run CHKDSK, your system
eventually recovers. You don't indicate any
"killer" errors, so it doesn't sound like the boot
stopped dead. I would certainly use CHKDSK, if
I had been power-cycling the computer in an
attempt to regain control.

Gulp, I turned off my cell phone while it was doing something and when
i restarted it, it said something like "SD error, consider
reformatting".

But it's only said that about 3 times out of 12 that I've started the
phone since then, and everything in the phone seems to work, so far.

Even if it said it all the time, if this were a computer drive, I
would run chkdsk before I reformatted. Can I plug the SD card into a
USB card reader and run CHKDSK??

I'd copy the contents of the card to a PC, and then re-format it (the
card - not the PC!). If you still want the contents on the card, you can
copy it back.

If there is more than a hint of a problem with any Flash memory, I
would chuck it. From my experience, it will fail again. They do go bad
and it shows up as an intermittent ghost that will continue to haunt
you.

Maybe.

However, I had a load of 35mm transparencies and film negatives to scan,
and a friend lent me a dedicated scanner which could scan four photos at
a time, saving them to an SD card for transfer from time-to-time to a
PC.

I had just got into the swing of doing the scans, when I found that
every so often, a scan would report a fail. Although the card was brand
new, I optimistically wondered if a re-format do anything useful. It
seemed to, as I've scanned at least 1000 photos since, without further
trouble.
--
Ian

I'm up !!

I was going to change the HD with the spare
but I took Mike's advice and cleaned it since
it was pretty dirty inside. So I thought that's
it.

Nope, the problem still exists,.. and I had to
go into the diagnostics again to connect. Oh, one
small thing,.. lately when shutting off I've had
to force it because the Explorer sign-off sound
wouldn't close so I could sign-off normally.

Robert

I have GWX on both computers and I did try
to open it to view the control panel on the
8500 but it didn't open.

I did set up the GWX with your help and
I haven't touched it since.

If I see the bar again I take a screenshot
and post it here.

Learning experience of course,.. but I'm not
shutting off the 8500 again till you say so.

As for all the other comments I do appreciate
them and I do read everyone's so please bear with
me, as I try to get this resolved.

Thanks,
Robert

Here's my GWX control panel:

http://i66.tinypic.com/256r474.jpg

Robert

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:59:51 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message ,
writes
On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:47:11 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Micky
writes
[Default] On Sat, 09 Jul 2016 07:05:59 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Paul wrote:


While it is fun to run CHKDSK, your system
eventually recovers. You don't indicate any
"killer" errors, so it doesn't sound like the boot
stopped dead. I would certainly use CHKDSK, if
I had been power-cycling the computer in an
attempt to regain control.

Gulp, I turned off my cell phone while it was doing something and when
i restarted it, it said something like "SD error, consider
reformatting".

But it's only said that about 3 times out of 12 that I've started the
phone since then, and everything in the phone seems to work, so far.

Even if it said it all the time, if this were a computer drive, I
would run chkdsk before I reformatted. Can I plug the SD card into a
USB card reader and run CHKDSK??

I'd copy the contents of the card to a PC, and then re-format it (the
card - not the PC!). If you still want the contents on the card, you can
copy it back.

If there is more than a hint of a problem with any Flash memory, I
would chuck it. From my experience, it will fail again. They do go bad
and it shows up as an intermittent ghost that will continue to haunt
you.

Maybe.

However, I had a load of 35mm transparencies and film negatives to scan,
and a friend lent me a dedicated scanner which could scan four photos at
a time, saving them to an SD card for transfer from time-to-time to a
PC.

I had just got into the swing of doing the scans, when I found that
every so often, a scan would report a fail. Although the card was brand
new, I optimistically wondered if a re-format do anything useful. It
seemed to, as I've scanned at least 1000 photos since, without further
trouble.

I imagine the format found the bad cells and marked them bad. That
doesn't mean the die was not just defective and more cells will fail.
I start seeing bad bits, I chuck them or use it for something that
doesn't matter.

It appears I do have FF 32bit

http://i63.tinypic.com/qry8ly.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/551hsi.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/9fnwjt.jpg


Hmmmmmm since I bought the 8500
new Dell installed it that way versus
64 bits,.. but I'm wondering whether
the 12GB (which I specially ordered)
is useless if it's not going to use
all the Ram. If I remember correctly
it came with 8GB of Ram and I upped
to 12GB and that's how I got Windows
7 professional because I could only
upgrade with that OS.

So would it not help to speed up the
computer and use the Ram to it's fullest
capacity? Especially those websites where it
locks up?

As far as Adobe Flash player, I found this:

https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player...operating.html

What do you think?

Robert

It seems my system is 64bit. I thought
I did download the 64 bit version of FF?

http://i67.tinypic.com/3166qop.jpg

Here's more information:

http://i65.tinypic.com/zu07ra.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2eyyxqd.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/29li59l.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2075d77.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/ixa3k8.jpg

FF:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo.../releasenotes/

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb...earn-more-link

I can't seem to find any downloads for FF from
FF either 32 or 64 bits.

Robert

Ah there it is ,.. just had to scroll down,..

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo.../releasenotes/

but I don't see a 32 bit version?

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo...-requirements/



Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Ah there it is ,.. just had to scroll down,..

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo.../releasenotes/

but I don't see a 32 bit version?

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo...-requirements/



Robert

Sure you do. There are five columns with icons underneath them.
Both Win and Win64 are available.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/

Fully localized versions

Language Windows Windows 64-bit OS X Linux Linux 64-bit

English (US) English (US) X X X X X

HTH,
Paul

Mark Twain wrote:
It seems my system is 64bit. I thought
I did download the 64 bit version of FF?

http://i67.tinypic.com/3166qop.jpg

Here's more information:

http://i65.tinypic.com/zu07ra.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2eyyxqd.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/29li59l.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2075d77.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/ixa3k8.jpg

FF:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo.../releasenotes/

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb...earn-more-link

I can't seem to find any downloads for FF from
FF either 32 or 64 bits.

Robert

I went through the pictures.

http://i66.tinypic.com/256r474.jpg 8500, GWX clear

http://i63.tinypic.com/qry8ly.jpg Firefox 47.0.1 x86
http://i68.tinypic.com/551hsi.jpg Programs and Features #1
http://i68.tinypic.com/9fnwjt.jpg Programs and Features #2

http://i67.tinypic.com/3166qop.jpg msinfo32

Here's more information:

http://i65.tinypic.com/zu07ra.jpg Startup items #1 msconfig.exe
http://i66.tinypic.com/2eyyxqd.jpg Startup items #2 msconfig.exe
http://i68.tinypic.com/29li59l.jpg Normal Startup msconfig.exe
http://i68.tinypic.com/2075d77.jpg Boot tab msconfig.exe
http://i63.tinypic.com/ixa3k8.jpg Services tab (extensive list, could
be a hundred items)

The only thing which is slightly weird, is the "Startup items #1"
picture has two Bluetooth entries. Are those two different executable
files that are doing different things ? Or did that entry get
added twice for some reason.

I don't see a reason that would cause a slowdown.

You can use the Sysinternals Autoruns package to make modifications.
It provides a tick-box interface. Just be careful to take
notes of what you've changed for later. Note that some softwares,
if you untick them, they have tricky ways of generating new
entries and getting around your mod.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...rnals/bb963902

Your 8500 is at least a quad core. Even if wuauserv (inside a SVCHOST)
was railed, it would not use the whole CPU. There would be plenty
of CPU left in Windows 7, to do other things.

The resource you can run out of, is disk bandwidth. If you
see the hard drive light on constantly for the first
20 minutes, then other programs may not be able to run
or to run well, if the disk is busy.

Other "slowdown" mechanisms involve sick Microsoft subsystems.
If .NET has not finished compiling assemblies, I've seen it:

1) Prevent the normal set of icons from appearing at the bottom
of the screen, as if the entire boot sequence is not finished.
2) Cause the network to not be connected yet. No network.
3) Cause Windows Firewall and Action Center to throw up an alert,
stating the Windows Firewall is not running.
4) Cause a busy cursor, any time your mouse hovers over the
bottom bar of the screen.

In an Administrator Command Prompt window, if you're running
..NET 4.0, you can try this.

C:\WINDOWS\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v4.0.30319\ngen .exe executequeueditems

Now, if the .NET updates were working as they should, the output
from that command would be maybe three or four lines, stating
there is nothing to do.

It used to be WinXP, that the command would produce reams and reams
of compiler action, as NGEN cleans and preps .NET assemblies.
It might take ten minutes to run, if ngen had not completed
the work previously.

But in terms of overall benefit (stopping the slow startup),
I'm finding in some cases, that just isn't enough. The other
day, I actually had to create another network connection
for the NIC interface, in order to "flush the evil spirits".
So I don't know what the hell is going on there. Certainly
the Troubleshooter on the OS, is clueless. It cannot
find a problem.

The troubleshooter will be doing stuff like this:

netsh winsock reset

Using that, you can find other informative articles on
things to try with netsh. The troubleshooter runs
a script of such things, and yet, it never seems to
help. So the brokenness lies elsewhere.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/299357

HTH,
Paul

Would you recommend downloading the 64bit
version of FF or leave things as is?

I don't have or use any bluetooth devices
so I don't know why it's there other than a
part of the 8500 itself.

what do you mean by 'railed' ?

My bandwidth is 100bps

http://i65.tinypic.com/2mfnpu9.jpg

I did the command you gave

http://i67.tinypic.com/acfsrk.jpg

and it seems .NET is working as it should.

I agree about the troubleshooter,.. so
do you suggest I reset my TCP/IP by
downloading?

or should I do it manually?

netsh int ip reset

Thoughts, suggestions?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Would you recommend downloading the 64bit
version of FF or leave things as is?

Is Firefox currently using more than 2GB of RAM ?
Is Firefox struggling ?

You could uninstall the 32 bit Firefox, then install
the 64 bit Firefox. But I don't know the details
of how the 64 bit plugins work. Whether the new Firefox
will have any problems with the plugins you currently
have on the machine. Does Adobe Flash work in there ?
Dunno.


I don't have or use any bluetooth devices
so I don't know why it's there other than a
part of the 8500 itself.

Yes, there would be a Bluetooth stack if Plug and
Play found a Bluetooth device running and installed
a driver. If you happened to have a setting to turn
off Bluetooth in the BIOS, perhaps it would disappear.
Or, you could try disabling the device in Device Manager.
I've had one case, where some audio software was too stupid
to notice the sound card was disabled, and the software
continued to run anyway :-)

I generally turn off hardware I know I won't
be using, before installing an OS, just so
there won't be junk like that sitting around.

What was bothering me about what I saw in
your picture, is there appear to be two identical
entries. There should probably only be one entry.

Disable Bluetooth in Device Manager, try a reboot
and see if your networking problem is fixed.


what do you mean by 'railed' ?

Say a CPU has four cores. Say I write code
with an infinite loop in it. Code like this:

1: GOTO 1

That code would spin in circles. If I run
that on the CPU, one core of the four cores
is kept constantly busy. That core runs at 100%.
But if I look in Task Manager, it registers as
"25%". Because in terms of total resources,
there are four cores available, and one core
(25%) is in usage.

A process like that, doesn't stay on the one
core. It moves around when the scheduler
tells it where to run. Which can happen many
times a second. But that does not change the
percentage used, which remains at 25%.

So if I run the above one-line program on
your computer, Task Manager registers 25%
(1 of 4 cores railed, spinning in circles),
but yet the remaining 75% capacity easily
continues to make the computer responsive.
I wouldn't even notice this was happening.

If your computer only has one core (like
your Pentium 4 computer), then if I run
the above one-liner program, your computer
would be miserably slow. As there is only
one core, and if a program hogs that core,
there is nothing left for the user to use.


My bandwidth is 100bps

http://i65.tinypic.com/2mfnpu9.jpg

I did the command you gave

http://i67.tinypic.com/acfsrk.jpg

and it seems .NET is working as it should.

I agree about the troubleshooter,.. so
do you suggest I reset my TCP/IP by
downloading?

My comment about the Troubleshooter for networks,
is it is already using some known techniques.
You would not expect manual intervention to
do any better of a job. When some of these
networking problems show up, the problem is
a "side effect" of some other busted stuff,
like .NET, rather than being a flaw in
the TCP/IP stack itself. The Troubleshooter
just isn't clever enough to know every
possible "other thing" that can knock over
networking.


or should I do it manually?

netsh int ip reset

Thoughts, suggestions?

Robert

I don't see a point issuing the series
of manual commands. The result will be
no better than the troubleshooter.

And I'm not clever enough to fix your
networking either. Look how I tried to
fix mine, by creating another network
icon instance :-) That's the best I could
come up with.

Paul