installing HD

I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...




--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

The drive itself has a "private" one-to-one cable.
There is no Master or Slave notation at the drive level.
The cable is not shared, as a ribbon cable is.

The *controller* on the motherboard, in the Southbridge,
has an IDE emulation mode. It maps up to four SATA
drives, to INT 14 and INT 15, at particular I/O space
addresses. This allows Windows 98 to be installed on
a SATA computer, as if there were two ribbon cables
and four IDE drives. Win98 is fooled into thinking
those four SATA drives, are on ribbon cables.

In the process of supporting such a mode, the *BIOS*
will have labels on the screen, of Master and Slave,
but they carry the same weight as having SATA port
numbers 0,1,2,3,4,5. They're a form of enumeration,
not a functional difference.

You have nothing to worry about. While you may see
the word "Master" or "Slave" on the screen, it
basically means nothing. And there is no jumper to set.

Jumpers exist on SATA drives for:

1) Force150 (make your drive work with a VIA 8237)
2) SpreadSpectrum (make your drive work with an older Macintosh)

Check the disk drive manufacturer site, for additional
jumper definitions. Those two would be popular on a
Seagate drive.

*******

Via a Port Multiplier box, it is possible to host
five drives off one SATA Southbridge port. But
I'm not aware what labeling scheme the software
uses, if you do that. And how the drives get
addressed. The Port Multiplier address field
in the SATA protocol, probably supports up to
15 disks off a single SATA cable, but no hardware
maker makes a chip using the entire space. Instead,
a chip exists with a fan-out of five SATA drives.

The notion of Master/Slave won't mean anything, in
a situation like this.

https://www.sata-io.org/port-multipliers

This shows a port multiplier box, with five output
cables (red), fed by a [not shown] cable plugged
into the shiny bottom connector housing.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/aAzWE.jpg

Paul

On 01/06/2017 02:56 PM, Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

That's probably because SATA drives don't have master/slave settings.
Only one drive plugs into each connector.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Any belief worth having must survive doubt."

On 1/6/2017 1:26 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 01/06/2017 02:56 PM, Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

That's probably because SATA drives don't have master/slave settings.
Only one drive plugs into each connector.

The tone of the post suggests that the dying drive might be IDE??
If so, my experience is that you can't just swap in a SATA in a windows
system.
I've had good luck with sysprep IDE, backup, change to SATA,
format SATA, restore.
There may be SATA modes in the BIOS that need to be reviewed before you
format the SATA drive.

mike wrote:
On 1/6/2017 1:26 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 01/06/2017 02:56 PM, Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

That's probably because SATA drives don't have master/slave settings.
Only one drive plugs into each connector.

The tone of the post suggests that the dying drive might be IDE??
If so, my experience is that you can't just swap in a SATA in a windows
system.
I've had good luck with sysprep IDE, backup, change to SATA,
format SATA, restore.
There may be SATA modes in the BIOS that need to be reviewed before you
format the SATA drive.

I'm beginning to suspect the model number is WD1600AVVS.

It has all the earmarks of being bought to match a
capacity point. It does 80MB/sec and has SATA II interface.
Modern consumer SATA drives are SATA III and do 200MB/sec
on the outer diameter of the drive.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1995652.pdf

Knowing more about the application would not hurt.

Paul

"Paul" schreef in bericht
news
Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

The drive itself has a "private" one-to-one cable.
There is no Master or Slave notation at the drive level.
The cable is not shared, as a ribbon cable is.

The *controller* on the motherboard, in the Southbridge,
has an IDE emulation mode. It maps up to four SATA
drives, to INT 14 and INT 15, at particular I/O space
addresses. This allows Windows 98 to be installed on
a SATA computer, as if there were two ribbon cables
and four IDE drives. Win98 is fooled into thinking
those four SATA drives, are on ribbon cables.

In the process of supporting such a mode, the *BIOS*
will have labels on the screen, of Master and Slave,
but they carry the same weight as having SATA port
numbers 0,1,2,3,4,5. They're a form of enumeration,
not a functional difference.

You have nothing to worry about. While you may see
the word "Master" or "Slave" on the screen, it
basically means nothing. And there is no jumper to set.

Jumpers exist on SATA drives for:

1) Force150 (make your drive work with a VIA 8237)
2) SpreadSpectrum (make your drive work with an older Macintosh)

Check the disk drive manufacturer site, for additional
jumper definitions. Those two would be popular on a
Seagate drive.

*******

Via a Port Multiplier box, it is possible to host
five drives off one SATA Southbridge port. But
I'm not aware what labeling scheme the software
uses, if you do that. And how the drives get
addressed. The Port Multiplier address field
in the SATA protocol, probably supports up to
15 disks off a single SATA cable, but no hardware
maker makes a chip using the entire space. Instead,
a chip exists with a fan-out of five SATA drives.

The notion of Master/Slave won't mean anything, in
a situation like this.

https://www.sata-io.org/port-multipliers

This shows a port multiplier box, with five output
cables (red), fed by a [not shown] cable plugged
into the shiny bottom connector housing.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/aAzWE.jpg

Paul




Thanks for your input.
So I thought I was going to do the job today. I disconnected and removed the
sick MAXTOR STM380211AS.
What d'you think can go wrong when you order a SATA drive? Exactly: the
small connector doesn't fit! :-((
The new drive has a block with two rows of 4 pins.
I hadn't checked phisically beforehand wether the connectors were identical.
I assumed SATA = SATA.
Where do I go now?





--
MV

PC
Windows 7 Ultimate SP1
mobo: Asus P5L-VM 1394 - CPU: DualCore Intel Pentium E2140, 1600 MHz (8 x
200) - RAM: 2 GB. - video: Intel(R) 82945G Express Chipset Family (128 MB) -
monitor: 19-inch Medion Akoya MD 20119 - sound: SB Audigy 1394 (PCI) - HD1:
MAXTOR STM380211AS (80 GB, 7200 RPM, SATA-II) - HD2: Seagate 160GB
ST3160215ACE - DVD+RW/+R: LG GSA-H44N - printer: HP DeskJet 720C
(parallel) - scanner: HP ScanJet 2200C (USB) - keyb: PS/2 MS Internet
Keyboard - mouse: Logitech Pilot Wheel Mouse Optical (USB) - webcam:
Logitech QuickCam Zoom (USB) - removables: Maxtor One Touch 120 GB (USB) -
Medion 500 GB (USB)

In article , lid
says...

"Paul" schreef in bericht
news
Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

The drive itself has a "private" one-to-one cable.
There is no Master or Slave notation at the drive level.
The cable is not shared, as a ribbon cable is.

The *controller* on the motherboard, in the Southbridge,
has an IDE emulation mode. It maps up to four SATA
drives, to INT 14 and INT 15, at particular I/O space
addresses. This allows Windows 98 to be installed on
a SATA computer, as if there were two ribbon cables
and four IDE drives. Win98 is fooled into thinking
those four SATA drives, are on ribbon cables.

In the process of supporting such a mode, the *BIOS*
will have labels on the screen, of Master and Slave,
but they carry the same weight as having SATA port
numbers 0,1,2,3,4,5. They're a form of enumeration,
not a functional difference.

You have nothing to worry about. While you may see
the word "Master" or "Slave" on the screen, it
basically means nothing. And there is no jumper to set.

Jumpers exist on SATA drives for:

1) Force150 (make your drive work with a VIA 8237)
2) SpreadSpectrum (make your drive work with an older Macintosh)

Check the disk drive manufacturer site, for additional
jumper definitions. Those two would be popular on a
Seagate drive.

*******

Via a Port Multiplier box, it is possible to host
five drives off one SATA Southbridge port. But
I'm not aware what labeling scheme the software
uses, if you do that. And how the drives get
addressed. The Port Multiplier address field
in the SATA protocol, probably supports up to

As far as I've seen all Sata drives use same connection, both desktop
internals and laptop portables. Doesn't sound like you have proper drive
"type". Basically connection looks like a "bar" along center male plug
part surrounded by a plastic outer edge. Center connector is broken into
two uneven sections, one is for data cable other is for power
connection.

"mike" schreef in bericht
news
On 1/6/2017 1:26 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 01/06/2017 02:56 PM, Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

That's probably because SATA drives don't have master/slave settings.
Only one drive plugs into each connector.

The tone of the post suggests that the dying drive might be IDE??
If so, my experience is that you can't just swap in a SATA in a windows
system.
I've had good luck with sysprep IDE, backup, change to SATA,
format SATA, restore.
There may be SATA modes in the BIOS that need to be reviewed before you
format the SATA drive.



The dying drive is SATA (specs below)
I have IDE drives in the PC and also SATA drive.
At the moment I gave cloned the sick SATA drive to the other IDE drive
teporarily wirg Macrium Reflect. Bootibg is slow of course.




--
MV

PC
Windows 7 Ultimate SP1
mobo: Asus P5L-VM 1394 - CPU: DualCore Intel Pentium E2140, 1600 MHz (8 x
200) - RAM: 2 GB. - video: Intel(R) 82945G Express Chipset Family (128 MB) -
monitor: 19-inch Medion Akoya MD 20119 - sound: SB Audigy 1394 (PCI) - HD1:
MAXTOR STM380211AS (80 GB, 7200 RPM, SATA-II) - HD2: Seagate 160GB
ST3160215ACE - DVD+RW/+R: LG GSA-H44N - printer: HP DeskJet 720C
(parallel) - scanner: HP ScanJet 2200C (USB) - keyb: PS/2 MS Internet
Keyboard - mouse: Logitech Pilot Wheel Mouse Optical (USB) - webcam:
Logitech QuickCam Zoom (USB) - removables: Maxtor One Touch 120 GB (USB) -
Medion 500 GB (USB)

"pjp" schreef in bericht
...
In article , lid
says...

"Paul" schreef in bericht
news
Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

The drive itself has a "private" one-to-one cable.
There is no Master or Slave notation at the drive level.
The cable is not shared, as a ribbon cable is.

The *controller* on the motherboard, in the Southbridge,
has an IDE emulation mode. It maps up to four SATA
drives, to INT 14 and INT 15, at particular I/O space
addresses. This allows Windows 98 to be installed on
a SATA computer, as if there were two ribbon cables
and four IDE drives. Win98 is fooled into thinking
those four SATA drives, are on ribbon cables.

In the process of supporting such a mode, the *BIOS*
will have labels on the screen, of Master and Slave,
but they carry the same weight as having SATA port
numbers 0,1,2,3,4,5. They're a form of enumeration,
not a functional difference.

You have nothing to worry about. While you may see
the word "Master" or "Slave" on the screen, it
basically means nothing. And there is no jumper to set.

Jumpers exist on SATA drives for:

1) Force150 (make your drive work with a VIA 8237)
2) SpreadSpectrum (make your drive work with an older Macintosh)

Check the disk drive manufacturer site, for additional
jumper definitions. Those two would be popular on a
Seagate drive.

*******

Via a Port Multiplier box, it is possible to host
five drives off one SATA Southbridge port. But
I'm not aware what labeling scheme the software
uses, if you do that. And how the drives get
addressed. The Port Multiplier address field
in the SATA protocol, probably supports up to

As far as I've seen all Sata drives use same connection, both desktop
internals and laptop portables. Doesn't sound like you have proper drive
"type". Basically connection looks like a "bar" along center male plug
part surrounded by a plastic outer edge. Center connector is broken into
two uneven sections, one is for data cable other is for power
connection.



Can't find a normal SATA data cable connection on the drive.
Only the power connection looks familiar.




--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

"Paul" schreef in bericht
news
mike wrote:
On 1/6/2017 1:26 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 01/06/2017 02:56 PM, Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

That's probably because SATA drives don't have master/slave settings.
Only one drive plugs into each connector.

The tone of the post suggests that the dying drive might be IDE??
If so, my experience is that you can't just swap in a SATA in a windows
system.
I've had good luck with sysprep IDE, backup, change to SATA,
format SATA, restore.
There may be SATA modes in the BIOS that need to be reviewed before you
format the SATA drive.

I'm beginning to suspect the model number is WD1600AVVS.

It has all the earmarks of being bought to match a
capacity point. It does 80MB/sec and has SATA II interface.
Modern consumer SATA drives are SATA III and do 200MB/sec
on the outer diameter of the drive.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1995652.pdf

Knowing more about the application would not hurt.

Paul



Think you're right. I should have typed VV in stead of W. (my damned eyes
are getting worse)
Here's an enlarged picture of the "SATA" interface I'm dealing with:

http://cpc.farnell.com/wd/wd1600avvs...ied/dp/CS29151



--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 21:05:07 +0100, Linea Recta wrote:

Think you're right. I should have typed VV in stead of W. (my damned eyes
are getting worse)
Here's an enlarged picture of the "SATA" interface I'm dealing with:

http://cpc.farnell.com/wd/wd1600avvs...ied/dp/CS29151

The sata interface is on the left in that picture. It's power at the
very left then the data connector and the two rows of 4 pins are
jumpers.

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed http://www.500kmh.com/

"Rodney Pont" schreef in bericht
hit.me.uk...
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 21:05:07 +0100, Linea Recta wrote:

Think you're right. I should have typed VV in stead of W. (my damned eyes
are getting worse)
Here's an enlarged picture of the "SATA" interface I'm dealing with:

http://cpc.farnell.com/wd/wd1600avvs...ied/dp/CS29151

The sata interface is on the left in that picture. It's power at the
very left then the data connector and the two rows of 4 pins are
jumpers.

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed http://www.500kmh.com/





After examining again it seems you may be right. I hope to continue tomorrow
and post the results here. Suppose I'm really getting blind :-(

thanks,

--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

Linea Recta wrote:
"mike" schreef in bericht
news
On 1/6/2017 1:26 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 01/06/2017 02:56 PM, Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

That's probably because SATA drives don't have master/slave settings.
Only one drive plugs into each connector.

The tone of the post suggests that the dying drive might be IDE??
If so, my experience is that you can't just swap in a SATA in a
windows system.
I've had good luck with sysprep IDE, backup, change to SATA,
format SATA, restore.
There may be SATA modes in the BIOS that need to be reviewed before you
format the SATA drive.



The dying drive is SATA (specs below)
I have IDE drives in the PC and also SATA drive.
At the moment I gave cloned the sick SATA drive to the other IDE drive
teporarily wirg Macrium Reflect. Bootibg is slow of course.

This is your old drive. This picture is upside-down. You can
see 15 contact power and 7 contact data. As well as a 1x4 block
of jumper pins (2mm centers).

http://www.494911.ru/products_pictur.../8130911_1.jpg

Your Farnell drive is similar. Fifteen pin power on left.
Seven pin data in center. 2x4 jumper block on the right.
(No Molex power connector to be seen.)

http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages...CS29151-40.jpg

*******

And samples of the jumper blocks are here.

http://support.wdc.com/knowledgebase...&lang=en&p=608

For a 2x4 block, the right-most position is equipped
if you need spread spectrum clock modulation. Normally
on a PC, you don't need a jumper there.

The second-from-the-left position is the "Force150" jumper.

SATA II drive - Force150 makes drive run at SATA I cable rate --- your Farnell
SATA III drive - Force150 makes drive run at SATA II cable rate
- Will *not* make a VIA 8237 work...

If you don't have one of the affected VIA chipsets or
PCI card controllers, then the Force150 is not needed.
Most chipsets auto-negotiate speed and reach the
highest common denominator speed setting without
human intervention.

Paul

On 07 Jan 2017, "Linea Recta" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

Think you're right. I should have typed VV in stead of W. (my
damned eyes are getting worse)
Here's an enlarged picture of the "SATA" interface I'm dealing
with:

http://cpc.farnell.com/wd/wd1600avvs...ied/dp/CS29151

That's a standard SATA connector for data and power. From what I've
read, the extra pins are to enable manufacturer-specific features.
For normal use, they can be ignored.

"Paul" schreef in bericht
news
Linea Recta wrote:
"mike" schreef in bericht
news
On 1/6/2017 1:26 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 01/06/2017 02:56 PM, Linea Recta wrote:
I bought a cheap replacement for my dying system drive, in my old PC.
New drive is refurbished WD1600AWS. (SATA)
But before I start tinkering: I can't find any informatio about the
master/slave settings?

Got the feeling I'm a little behind with new developments...

That's probably because SATA drives don't have master/slave settings.
Only one drive plugs into each connector.

The tone of the post suggests that the dying drive might be IDE??
If so, my experience is that you can't just swap in a SATA in a windows
system.
I've had good luck with sysprep IDE, backup, change to SATA,
format SATA, restore.
There may be SATA modes in the BIOS that need to be reviewed before you
format the SATA drive.



The dying drive is SATA (specs below)
I have IDE drives in the PC and also SATA drive.
At the moment I gave cloned the sick SATA drive to the other IDE drive
teporarily wirg Macrium Reflect. Bootibg is slow of course.

This is your old drive. This picture is upside-down. You can
see 15 contact power and 7 contact data. As well as a 1x4 block
of jumper pins (2mm centers).

http://www.494911.ru/products_pictur.../8130911_1.jpg

Your Farnell drive is similar. Fifteen pin power on left.
Seven pin data in center. 2x4 jumper block on the right.
(No Molex power connector to be seen.)

http://cpc.farnell.com/productimages...CS29151-40.jpg

*******

And samples of the jumper blocks are here.

http://support.wdc.com/knowledgebase...&lang=en&p=608

For a 2x4 block, the right-most position is equipped
if you need spread spectrum clock modulation. Normally
on a PC, you don't need a jumper there.

The second-from-the-left position is the "Force150" jumper.

SATA II drive - Force150 makes drive run at SATA I cable rate --- your
Farnell
SATA III drive - Force150 makes drive run at SATA II cable rate
- Will *not* make a VIA 8237 work...

If you don't have one of the affected VIA chipsets or
PCI card controllers, then the Force150 is not needed.
Most chipsets auto-negotiate speed and reach the
highest common denominator speed setting without
human intervention.

Paul






OK, by now I've connected the new SATA drive and I'm (slow) formatting. Slow
format option because of thourough test.
Further mo the replaced SATA drive was a 80GB Maxtor. The new SATA drive
is a Western digital 160GB, green label (whatever that means)
Then I'm going to clone back Windows 7 partition to the new drive with
Macrium without changing partition size.
I'm aware plenty problems may be awaiting...


thanks for all replies.

--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os