Adobe - The writing on the wall comes into view

"Paul" wrote

| My experience is, that modern drives give plenty of
| hints, before they die on you. If you were hoping to
| scare people, good luck with that.
|
I replaced one for a friend recently. Win8 laptop.
She was laying in bed, uploading photos, and it quit.
I don't know why, but my guess is that blankets
were blocking the back vents and it overheated.

I once had a whole machine go from what I
think was a power surge. It happened at about
the time (2001?) when the East Coast had a
massive blackout. My home state, MA, had a
system that triggered it to break off from the
grid when it sensed failure. My computer suddenly
rebooted and came back blank.

Not that I intend to lend credibility to nospam....
but personally I think it's worthwhile to always run
a redundant disk. It's not expensive. But of course
that also requires using a desktop. A laptop is
really just a portable, temporary encampment, but
many people no longer use them that way.

On Sun, 2 Sep 2018 04:34:04 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake
wrote:


The so-called "cloud" is really marketing babble for a return to the
way we did computing 40-50 years ago, where you had terminals accessing
remote servers where data and applications were actually stored.


Yes. Well put.

Mayayana wrote:
"Paul" wrote

| My experience is, that modern drives give plenty of
| hints, before they die on you. If you were hoping to
| scare people, good luck with that.
|
I replaced one for a friend recently. Win8 laptop.
She was laying in bed, uploading photos, and it quit.
I don't know why, but my guess is that blankets
were blocking the back vents and it overheated.

I once had a whole machine go from what I
think was a power surge. It happened at about
the time (2001?) when the East Coast had a
massive blackout. My home state, MA, had a
system that triggered it to break off from the
grid when it sensed failure. My computer suddenly
rebooted and came back blank.

Not that I intend to lend credibility to nospam....
but personally I think it's worthwhile to always run
a redundant disk. It's not expensive. But of course
that also requires using a desktop. A laptop is
really just a portable, temporary encampment, but
many people no longer use them that way.

I was addressing a specific issue. Drives don't seem
to mysteriously drop dead like they once did. They
give enough warning signs, you can swap them out
before you get close to "the end". I've had five or
six drives here, which gave plenty of warning, and
now they're in the "scratch disk" pile. They're still
alive... but they cannot be trusted as boot drives.

Of course a boulder can fall on your house, crushing
your hard drive. You should keep your backup drive
in the shed :-)

Once you've been using computers for a while,
suffered some data loss, you'll be able to
adjust your practices according to the situation.

For example, the very first 10MB hard drive I was
given, I immediately started copying all personal
files (output) to the departmental server (300MB).
Why was I doing that ? Because I was also involved
in doing data recovery on some of those drives :-)
I already had some idea how reliable they were.
I did more backups of my shiny new hard drive,
than I would have done for my floppy collection
(110 floppies in my desk drawer). I didn't even
tell my colleagues what I was doing :-) I wasn't
a promoter of backups, like I am today.

Paul

In article , Roger Blake
wrote:

the difference is that a cloud service will have multiple redundant
copies in their data centers with multiple redundant data centers.

The so-called "cloud" is really marketing babble for a return to the
way we did computing 40-50 years ago, where you had terminals accessing
remote servers where data and applications were actually stored.

no it definitely isn't a return to that. you obviously don't understand
what the cloud means or offers.

the cloud is a *lot* of different things (not just one) which can
provide a variety of different services not otherwise possible,
including sharing among multiple devices (or users) as well as offsite
backup and much more.

When you rely on the "cloud" you lose control of your data. You don't
know where it is being kept, how it is being backed up, how many copies
there are, where it will be copied to, who will have access to it under
what conditions, or even if you will have access to it at any specific
point in the future.

nonsense. users have full control of their data and can access it at
any time, they know exactly where it's being kept (the cloud service)
and backups are much better than anything a user could ever hope to do.
users can also grant access to others if they so choose and revoke it
at any time.

although rare, there can be an occasional brief outage (nothing is
perfect), but there can also be (and more likely will be) 'outages' for
local copies, such as when (not if) a hard drive fails, or a power
outage, fire/flood/etc. even something as simple as needing to replace
a usb cable can delay accessing your *local* data.

I'm just not willing to trust Microsoft, Google, etc.
with my stuff.

only because you don't understand what it is and how it works.

but if you really don't trust anyone, you can always set up your own
private cloud to host any of a variety of services. it's a *lot* more
work, especially keeping it secure, and it may not interoperate
anywhere near as well as a commercial service, but it definitely is an
option.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

but personally I think it's worthwhile to always run
a redundant disk. It's not expensive. But of course
that also requires using a desktop.

no it doesn't require a desktop.

A laptop is
really just a portable, temporary encampment, but
many people no longer use them that way.

nonsense.

"Mayayana" on Sat, 1 Sep 2018 22:06:29 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote

| That's a pain, but most of the work is stuff
| I'd have to do anyway, even if I paid someone
| to do my taxes. They'd be charging me $100 just
| to do the math and look up possible deductions.
|
|
| Ten years ago, it made sense. The last couple years - why am I
| doing this?

Especially if you've already done it once.
Unless you've made big changes you should be
able to just check updates and then use last
year's forms for guidance. There used to be more
things that one could deduct, like charitable,
medical, political, etc. These days, and all the
more so in the coming year with Donald's
excellent millionaire adventure tax plan, most
people won't itemize. But I guess if you're
collecting rent from tenants in your property
in Mexico while also paying child support and
investing in solar projects, then you might
need some help.

"I wish". OTOH, when "Filing jointly" and your combine income is
below the deductions "why bother."

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 123456789 wrote:
On 9/1/2018 9:34 PM, Roger Blake wrote:

When you rely on the "cloud" you lose control of your data. You don't
know where it is being kept, how it is being backed up, how many
copies there are, where it will be copied to, who will have access to
it under what conditions, or even if you will have access to it at
any specific point in the future. I'm just not willing to trust
Microsoft, Google, etc. with my stuff.

I use the cloud (Google Drive) as a backup for my local files. That way
if I lose them in some calamity (such as a house fire) they can be
replaced. And likewise in the unlikely event that the cloud fails I
still have my local files. I also encrypt my sensitive files in case
some Google employee should decide to pick me out of the other hundreds
of millions of customers to spy on...

What do you use to encrypt your datas before uploading to the cloud?
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which she is piling up, not unaware nor careless of the future."
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( )

"Paul" wrote

| Of course a boulder can fall on your house, crushing
| your hard drive. You should keep your backup drive
| in the shed :-)
|

You're not going to believe this... That's the
last time I put backup in the attic.

On 9/2/2018 6:00 PM, Ant wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10 123456789 wrote:

I use the cloud (Google Drive) as a backup for my local files. That
way if I lose them in some calamity (such as a house fire) they can
be replaced. And likewise in the unlikely event that the cloud
fails I still have my local files. I also encrypt my sensitive
files in case some Google employee should decide to pick me out of
the other hundreds of millions of customers to spy on...

What do you use to encrypt your datas before uploading to the cloud?

FolderLatch

On 2018-09-02, nospam wrote:
no it definitely isn't a return to that. you obviously don't understand
what the cloud means or offers.

Yes, it is. I was working in the computer industry back when things
were done that way. (Were you?) Conceptually it is the same thing.

nonsense. users have full control of their data and can access it at
any time, they know exactly where it's being kept (the cloud service)

Utter and complete bilge. It's amazing to me that anyone can even
make such an ignorant statement.

only because you don't understand what it is and how it works.

I understand it completely. It is obvious that you do not.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Roger Blake" wrote
| On 2018-09-02, nospam wrote:

| no it definitely isn't a return to that. you obviously don't understand
| what the cloud means or offers.
|
| Yes, it is. I was working in the computer industry back when things
| were done that way. (Were you?) Conceptually it is the same thing.
|

Aren't both things partially true? I don't think
the comparison to "the old days" is really very
helpful.

The current cloud is about converting computing
itself into a retail rental service and converting the
Internet into interactive cable TV. Mainframes were
a structural necessity. Cloud comprises a number of
strategies to sell you computing, seizing control of
the functionality to sell it back to you. Even online
software activation is a form of cloud. As is the case
here with Adobe software. It's not running remotely.
There's no real "cloud" at all. It's just crippleware
that has to be allowed call home, so that you can
be forced to pay rent. But that rental *is* cloud.

In that sense, cloud is an insidious scam. But cloud
is also a lot of online services that people want. Backup
storage at dropbox. Image sharing at sites like imgur
or postimage.org. Facebook. They all offered to provide
a convenient service and people jumped at it. Just
as people jumped at AOL rather than figure out the
Internet for themselves. And just as graphics workers
jumped at Adobe rental because it was the path of
least resistance.

We can't really separate those two aspects. People
are walking into the jaws of the lion because they
get something from it that they want. Also because
they don't understand what they're giving up. Also
because the changes are hidden to a great extent.
(The average Win10 user has no idea that the licensing
model has radically changed. Passive product
activation was a stroke of genius on the part of
Microsoft.) It's all of those things.

If you focus only on the idea that it's someone
else's computer then you're likely to get your
land stolen while you argue about where the
propety line is.

One other note: nospam, in addition to being a
compulsive arguer, is an Apple fanatic. Apple is
arguably today's AOL. They sell pre-digested
computing at steep prices to people who want
convenience. If you have an iPhone it's all backed
up by Apple. You don't have to think about it. For
the average Apple fan like nospam, who doesn't
even properly understand the idea of a file system,
what's not to like? They pay a thousand bucks for a
phone, but they get a shiny, futuristic gizmo that does
100 things and they don't have to understand *anything*.
They can even flush it down the toilet. That will cost
another $1,000, but aside from that there's no loss
or hassle. That adorable picture of Junior trying to
comb the cat's hair is still there!

All Hail Lord Jobs. Who do I make the check out to?

On 9/3/2018 7:02 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Apple is arguably today's AOL. They sell pre-digested computing at
steep prices to people who want convenience.

There are Android phones in the same price range that offer the same
convenience.

If you have an iPhone it's all backed up by Apple.

Likewise with premium Android manufacturers.

You don't have to think about it. For the average Apple fan

Likewise for the average Android fan.

doesn't even properly understand the idea of a file system, what's
not to like?

Other than us geeks most don't care about the file system.

They pay a thousand bucks for a phone, but they get a shiny,
futuristic gizmo that does 100 things and they don't have to
understand *anything*.

The new (Android) Samsung phone is $1000+.

All Hail Lord Jobs. Who do I make the check out to?

Do I hear Jealousy??

BTW 1: Being from a mixed family (Android AND iStuff) I don't have an ax
to grind either way.

BTW 2: To keep this somewhat on topic, while I own a premium $1300 W10
laptop I am posting this on a $150 W10 tablet. Draw your own comparisons...

"123456789" wrote

| The new (Android) Samsung phone is $1000+.
|

Probably a good point about Android. I don't know
and wasn't saying otherwise. The point was that
nospam was arguing about the role of cloud and I
was just pointing out that cloud, for the average
Apple fan, is something more integral and seemingly
benevolent than it is for Windows users. The iPhone
was just an example of how Apple controls everything
"from soup to nuts", and how Apple fans mostly like
that. I wasn't talking about phones.

It's an interesting question, though, whether
Google might eventually succeed with a similar
infantilization of their user base. I saw an article
just today that ChromeOS devices, with it's pre-
installed software, is expected by experts to give
Windows a run for their money. And it's striking how
many people use Chrome browser. The majority have
embraced a spyware browser from a sleazeball
advertising company.

What do Apple and Gooogle have in common:
They both exploit the customer shamelessly but
they both also have a knack for designing useful
and elegantly simple products.

| All Hail Lord Jobs. Who do I make the check out to?
|
| Do I hear Jealousy??
|

You seem to have missed my points entirely.

On 9/3/2018 8:37 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-09-03 11:02, 123456789 wrote:

There are Android phones in the same price range that offer the
same convenience.

There are _cheaper_ Android phones that offer the same, er,
convenience. And better cameras.

Yup. Most people do buy those cheaper Android phones. But it's nice to
have a choice.

On 9/3/2018 8:54 AM, Mayayana wrote:

was just pointing out that cloud, for the average Apple fan, is
something more integral and seemingly benevolent than it is for
Windows users.

Agreed. IMO virtually all smartphones/tablets, (of either persuasion)
are easier to use for the average person than most Windows devices.

The iPhone was just an example of how Apple controls everything "from
soup to nuts", and how Apple fans mostly like that.

Of course. Apple is very successful because people like their stuff.

It's an interesting question, though, whether Google might eventually
succeed with a similar infantilization of their user base.

Google's problem is that it doesn't control (most of) the hardware.

I saw an article just today that ChromeOS devices, with it's pre-
installed software, is expected by experts to give Windows a run for
their money.

I have a Chromebook. So far I've been disappointed. But it is a work in
progress. Perhaps it will improve...

And it's striking how many people use Chrome browser.

Yup. Google does excel in the software business.

What do Apple and Gooogle have in common: They both exploit the
customer shamelessly

I give Google $2 a month for my cloud storage. Google has a ways to go
to catch my iStuff expenditures... 8-O