OK/Cancel dialog, which way round?

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:


Since when was TRUE 0?

https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/true-invocation.html

that's for a return value, where 0 means no error and a non-zero is an
error code.

But generally I agree, false is zero

not just generally. it *is*.

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:


Google "what is the value of true in C".

Answer:

The bottom line is that, whenever a Boolean value is generated by an
expression, it ... ... yields 1 if the specified relation is true and 0
if it is false. The result has type int. So, yes, the result of any
Boolean-generating expression will be one for true, or zero for false.

more accurately, true is non-zero (but usually 1) and false is 0.

But:

https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/true-invocation.html

16.2 true: Do nothing, successfully

true does nothing except return an exit status of 0, meaning success. It
can be used as a place holder in shell scripts where a successful
command is needed, although the shell built-in command : (colon) may do
the same thing faster. In most modern shells, true is a built-in
command, so when you use Œtrue¹ in a script, you¹re probably using the
built-in command, not the one documented here.

that's for a return value, where 0 is no error and non-zero is an error
code.

On Thu, 30 May 2019 23:31:19 +0200, Carlos E.R., yet another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:


Google "what is the value of true in C".

Why should he google anything when he can have endless fun baiting
troll-feeding senile assholes like you? BG

On Thu, 30 May 2019 22:31:19 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 30/05/2019 23.04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2019 21:57:14 +0100, Mayayana
wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| Commander Kinsey wrote:
| I've never really noticed which way round these things are in
Windows,
| but from a Google search, it appears Windows has it backwards and
MacOS
| has it correct. OK on the right, this makes more sense. An
affirmative
| action is moreso, yes is 1, no is 0, ok should be to the right.It's
| been annoying me recently in a game (Civ VI) when I automatically
assume
| the button on the right is "yes" and click the wrong one.
|
| Except usually "yes" is TRUE which is 0 not 1 in programing...
|
| Since when was TRUE 0?

A great example of 1st world problems.

Yes, 0 is false. True is 1 or -1. (A 32-bit value with all bits
switched on is -1.)

Google "what is the value of true in C".

Answer:

The bottom line is that, whenever a Boolean value is generated by an
expression, it ... ... yields 1 if the specified relation is true and 0
if it is false. The result has type int. So, yes, the result of any
Boolean-generating expression will be one for true, or zero for false.


But:

https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/true-invocation.html

16.2 true: Do nothing, successfully

true does nothing except return an exit status of 0, meaning success. It
can be used as a place holder in shell scripts where a successful
command is needed, although the shell built-in command : (colon) may do
the same thing faster. In most modern shells, true is a built-in
command, so when you use ‘true’ in a script, you’re probably using the
built-in command, not the one documented here.

But what we're talking about here is the attitude of the user. Most users have never heard of true being 0. However most are familiar with a car, you use the right pedal for more speed, the left pedal for less. Hence the right button should be ok or yes, and the left button cancel or no.

I have a trackball that lets me put the focus on the default,
so I rarely think about it, except the rare cases where I
accidentally click the wrong button *because* of that feature.

I never want anything to default for me. How does your computer know
what you're going to want?

The first button (left) is focused by default. Many programmers
don't even know that, so nearly all message boxes will have
the focus on the left. In that sense, the positive answer
(yes or OK) is focused, which seems to accord with your
prejudice. But it can be done differently if the programmer
has a reason to do so. You can see it he
Paste the following into Notepad, save as msg.vbs, then run it.

MsgBox "first", 1
MsgBox "second", 257

Nothing should ever be focused, this means you could select it by
pressing space or enter when you're in the middle of something else.

Take that issue with the programmer of whatever application. Maybe even
with Microsoft. Boxes have default behaviours, and the programmer
chooses them. Typically "Ok" is enter, "No" or "Cancel" is Esc.

And some mouse drivers (typically touchpads) have an optional function
to jump the pointer automatically to the default button. Switch it on or
off, your choice.

That would be fine if nothing ever stole focus. But I've lost count of the number of times I'm typing an email and accidentally said "yes" to a dialog from another program.

On 5/30/2019 2:59 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:


Google "what is the value of true in C".

Answer:

The bottom line is that, whenever a Boolean value is generated by an
expression, it ... ... yields 1 if the specified relation is true and 0
if it is false. The result has type int. So, yes, the result of any
Boolean-generating expression will be one for true, or zero for false.

more accurately, true is non-zero (but usually 1) and false is 0.

In other languages, I've seen the convention that false is 0 and true is
-1, and other values are interpreted in such a way that all positive
values are false and negative values are true....r

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| What is a "control box"?
|

The cluster at the top right of a window (in Windows),
typically with minimize, maximize/normal, and close buttons.
The correlate on a Mac would be those 3 adorable gumdrops
in the upper left.

| I have a trackball that lets me put the focus on the default,
| so I rarely think about it, except the rare cases where I
| accidentally click the wrong button *because* of that feature.
|
| I never want anything to default for me. How does your computer know what
you're going to want?
|
It doesn't. The trackball software makes the mouse
cursor jump to the focused element. (The button that
has a dotted line around it, which would be clicked if
you pressed Enter.) Something is always default the
focused element. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to
tab around. Likewise with files in a folder. The selected
item shows as selected, but if nothing is selected there's
still a focused item.

Ideally, the programmer who wrote the software has
designed it as well as possible to predict your needs.
But typically that's Yes or OK, because typically it's
asking you to confirm: "Are you sure you want to delete
that file?" You already did delete it, so you probably intend
to answer yes.

| Nothing should ever be focused, this means you could select it by pressing
space or enter when you're in the middle of something else.
|

In most situations focus won't do that. It does with
buttons in a msgbox because there's no selecting them.
But with files in a folder it just sets the position where
tab presses will proceed from.

But it's true that could happen with a selection. You
could have a selection in a folder window, then switch
to Notepad. If you somehow accidentally shift the
active window back to the folder when you're trying
to go to the next line in Notepad then you'll end up
opening the selected file or folder. That's life. Using
a computer is a risky venture. Be sure you're
strapped in and don't forget to take your antispasm
pills before setting hand to mouse or keyboard.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote


That would be fine if nothing ever stole focus. But I've lost count of the
number of times I'm typing an email and accidentally said "yes" to a dialog
from another program.


You must have some odd software. Microsoft switched
that behavior years ago, so that a msgbox popped up
by a window without focus goes to a flashing box on the
taskbar, rather than stealing focus. Software developers
can steal focus only by using hacks that are impolite and
bad design. I think Imgburn might do that in some cases.
I can't think of any other software that does.

On 31/05/2019 00.14, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2019 22:31:19 +0100, Carlos E.R.
wrote:

On 30/05/2019 23.04, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Thu, 30 May 2019 21:57:14 +0100, Mayayana
wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| Commander Kinsey wrote:
| I've never really noticed which way round these things are in
Windows,
| but from a Google search, it appears Windows has it backwards and
MacOS
| has it correct.Â* OK on the right, this makes more sense.Â* An
affirmative
| action is moreso, yes is 1, no is 0, ok should be to the
right.It's
| been annoying me recently in a game (Civ VI) when I automatically
assume
| the button on the right is "yes" and click the wrong one.
|
| Except usually "yes" is TRUE which is 0 not 1 in programing...
|
| Since when was TRUE 0?

Â*A great example of 1st world problems.

Â*Yes, 0 is false. True is 1 or -1. (A 32-bit value with all bits
switched on is -1.)

Google "what is the value of true in C".

Answer:

The bottom line is that, whenever a Boolean value is generated by an
expression, it ... ... yields 1 if the specified relation is true and 0
if it is false. The result has type int. So, yes, the result of any
Boolean-generating expression will be one for true, or zero for false.


But:

https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/true-invocation.html


16.2 true: Do nothing, successfully

true does nothing except return an exit status of 0, meaning success. It
can be used as a place holder in shell scripts where a successful
command is needed, although the shell built-in command : (colon) may do
the same thing faster. In most modern shells, true is a built-in
command, so when you use ‘true’ in a script, you’re probably using the
built-in command, not the one documented here.

But what we're talking about here is the attitude of the user.Â* Most
users have never heard of true being 0.Â* However most are familiar with
a car, you use the right pedal for more speed, the left pedal for less.Â*
Hence the right button should be ok or yes, and the left button cancel
or no.

Middle pedal here is less.

But we programmers never thought in those terms.

Try with politics :-p


And some mouse drivers (typically touchpads) have an optional function
to jump the pointer automatically to the default button. Switch it on or
off, your choice.

That would be fine if nothing ever stole focus.Â*Â* But I've lost count of
the number of times I'm typing an email and accidentally said "yes" to a
dialog from another program.

Yep. So I don't enable that automatism.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In message Commander Kinsey wrote:
I've never really noticed which way round these things are in Windows,
but from a Google search, it appears Windows has it backwards and
MacOS has it correct. OK on the right, this makes more sense. An
affirmative action is moreso, yes is 1, no is 0, ok should be to the
right. It's been annoying me recently in a game (Civ VI) when I
automatically assume the button on the right is "yes" and click the
wrong one.

One of the more minor things I dislike about Windows, but a constant
source of low-grade annoyance.

It has even migrated to some other terrible UI decisions, like POS
terminals that put cancel on the bottom right.

--
I must admit, you brought Religion into my life. I never believed in
Hell until I met you.

On 31/05/19 06:32, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Commander Kinsey wrote:
I've never really noticed which way round these things are in Windows,
but from a Google search, it appears Windows has it backwards and MacOS
has it correct. OK on the right, this makes more sense. An affirmative
action is moreso, yes is 1, no is 0, ok should be to the right. It's
been annoying me recently in a game (Civ VI) when I automatically assume
the button on the right is "yes" and click the wrong one.

Except usually "yes" is TRUE which is 0 not 1 in programing...

Only in C programming, not in the better programming languages.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

In article , Peter Moylan
wrote:


Except usually "yes" is TRUE which is 0 not 1 in programing...

Only in C programming, not in the better programming languages.

nope. historically, false is 0 and true is non-zero, but in c99, bool
is 0 or 1 (although testing for 1 is still a bad idea).

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs...stdbool.h.html
https://clang.llvm.org/doxygen/stdbool_8h_source.html

On Thu, 30 May 2019 20:56:31 -0400, Mayayana, another obviously brain dead,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered again:


You must have some odd software.

Nope, it's his head that is odd ...VERY odd! But you are obviously too
senile to notice it, troll-feeding idiot! BG

On Fri, 31 May 2019 03:48:52 +0200, Carlos E.R., another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:


the number of times I'm typing an email and accidentally said "yes" to a
dialog from another program.

Yep. So I don't enable that automatism.

What has all this demented **** got to do with a group like aue, you
driveling IDIOTS?

On Thu, 30 May 2019 20:51:20 -0400, Mayayana, another obviously brain dead,
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered again:

| I never want anything to default for me. How does your computer know what
you're going to want?
|
It doesn't.

LOL Another senile idiot who GLADLY takes the dumbest baits from one of the
dumbest trolls that ever infested these groups!

On Fri, 31 May 2019 02:05:45 -0000 (UTC), Lewis, another mentally
challenged, troll-feeding, senile idiot, driveled:


One of the more minor things I dislike about Windows, but a constant
source of low-grade annoyance.

Good for you that you found a retarded troll to talk to about your dislike,
eh, senile Lewis? VBG