What is SP2 doing - apart from trashing everybody's PC??

Shenan Stanley wrote:

Herb Fritatta wrote:

Can you point me to a reference that categorically identifies *any*
piece of adware or spyware which is known to conflict with SP2 or
*known* to create installation problems?


Shenan Stanley wrote:

Interesting Article:
http://www.onlinepcfix.com/spyware/cnn1.htm



Herb Fritatta wrote:

A great source for tech info--the Associated Press. And it still
doesn't answer the question.


See, here is the point I am trying to make - again - if you read the
article, it does not just have to do with Spyware - they suggest (as I do)
to PREPARE your system for SP2. They do make reference to scanning your
system for spyware, but they also suggest upgrading and patching and general
safety precautions...

The point of all these articles are the same - the information is out
there - if someone is foolish enough not to look at the paint before they
put it on the wall, then they deserve the hunter orange/puke green bedroom.

http://www.halifaxlive.com/windows_x...62004_7854.php

Read this, he actually recommends against SP2.
http://channels.lockergnome.com/news...ding_sp2.phtml

No - I don't CARE if they ever mention a specific piece of spyware - it's
all trash, it should all be killed. The impression I am getting here is
that you think everyone is just jumping on the bandwagon that Spyware is the
reason all SP2 installs have gone wrong and that with a perfectly maintained
system, SP2 would work everytime. I see that there will be people unable to
install SP2. It's a fact - I accept it and I see nothing wrong with it. To
me SP2 was never a minor upgrade, I mean it is huge, it obviously changes a
lot of the playing field. It's like getting the next version of Windows but
not having to pay.

Maybe Microsoft should have taken the Macintosh approach, introduced 130
fixes rolled up in a "new OS" for $129 (less than $1 per "feature"!)
*shrug* I don't care. I just want to make sure that the point is out there
that although 2% to 5% of users out there will have legitimate gripes, the
rest probably just need to be sure they are ready to upgrade before they do.

And I see nothing wrong with NOT listing a specific piece of spyware and
telling people to get rid of it before they install SP2. "Common Sense"
tells you that getting rid of trash is a good thing.


Again, I might be barking up the wrong tree with you, but there's a
valid point here. First, I asked for references regarding any specific
piece of ad-or-spyware that is known to conflict with SP2 and you
responded with a link to mostly irrelevant mass-market AP story. You
and I both can cite post after post after post, from bright people and
obvious dopes, that accuse users of having systems full of malware and
adware when an SP2 install goes south. The FACT is that this is all
mindless parroting on the part of people who were *fortunate* enough to
have a successful (so far) installation and are either too dumb, too
lazy or too biased to see that there are people out there who are
getting their butts kicked by SP2 for no good reason. And the reason
that SP2 is necessary is that the original product was full of holes to
begin with.
No, you can't point me with any spyware or adware that's known to
conflict with SP2 because none has been identified. People need to be
smart enough to realize that one of the easiest ways for MS to shirk
responsibility is to blame problems on a nebulous but sinister-sounding
source. Problems with SP2? Your fault, probably, or as I said in an
earlier post, I fu*#$ed up--I trusted them.

On these and other forums there have been many reports of SP-2 failing
specifically related to spyware etc.
The run one of the spyware killers and the problem goes away.
I for one do not keep track of the specifics because it seems so
obvious and there is no point.

Whether you accept it or not spyware and other malware does cause
problems for SP-2.
The computer needs to be clean and running properly if updates,
especially Service Packs are expected to install.
Even then there are an almost limitless list of other things to cause
problems.

"The FACT is that this is all mindless parroting on the part of people
who were *fortunate* enough to have a successful (so far) installation
and are either too dumb, too lazy or too biased to see that there are
people out there who are getting their butts kicked by SP2 for no good
reason."
Most of those with successful SP-2 installations are not just
"*fortunate*", they planned ahead to prepare their computer.
This usually included checking for spyware and other malware.
I do not really consider myself fortunate that SP-2 installed, I
expected it because I planned for it.
But I was also prepared if something did go wrong.
It is also not always "mindless parroting" as you suggest.
It is a fact I have seen almost countless times.
"...no good reason." Spyware, malware and other problems IS a good
reason for an installation failure, not just for Service Packs but for
anything.

"People need to be smart enough to realize that one of the easiest
ways for MS to shirk responsibility is to blame problems on a nebulous
but sinister-sounding source."
Are you suggesting spyware and other malware does not cause problems?
Yes, it is apparent from this post of yours.
What is wrong with "People need to be smart enough to maintain their
computers"
Do you think Microsoft should do it all because the people are
incapable?
It sounds like it.
I for one think they are smart, but some need to first learn what
needs to be done.

You are free to allow spyware and other malware on your computer and
wonder why there are performance and other issues.
While I know what it can do and take efforts to keep it off.
My issues are minimal and Service Packs seem to always go in
flawlessly for me.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Herb Fritatta" wrote in message
...
Again, I might be barking up the wrong tree with you, but there's a
valid point here. First, I asked for references regarding any
specific piece of ad-or-spyware that is known to conflict with SP2
and you responded with a link to mostly irrelevant mass-market AP
story. You and I both can cite post after post after post, from
bright people and obvious dopes, that accuse users of having systems
full of malware and adware when an SP2 install goes south. The FACT
is that this is all mindless parroting on the part of people who
were *fortunate* enough to have a successful (so far) installation
and are either too dumb, too lazy or too biased to see that there
are people out there who are getting their butts kicked by SP2 for
no good reason. And the reason that SP2 is necessary is that the
original product was full of holes to begin with.
No, you can't point me with any spyware or adware that's known to
conflict with SP2 because none has been identified. People need to
be smart enough to realize that one of the easiest ways for MS to
shirk responsibility is to blame problems on a nebulous but
sinister-sounding source. Problems with SP2? Your fault, probably,
or as I said in an earlier post, I fu*#$ed up--I trusted them.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:30:04 -0500, Herb Fritatta

No, you can't point me with any spyware or adware that's known to
conflict with SP2 because none has been identified.

False. Go through MS's "front door" on SP2, and in the "before you
install SP2" section, there's a link for specific checks.

Follow that, and it will mention two issues known to kill SP2
installation; Prescott vs. SP2, and a particular commercial malware
(referred to as "unwanted software") that is known to crash SP2 .

I'm sure that's not the only malware that breaks SP2, and there may be
others that are known as well. But as that one is so "known" that
even MS singles it out; enough to refute your assertion ;-)



-------------- ---- --- -- - - - -
"I think it's time we took our
friendship to the next level"
'What, gender roles and abuse?'
-------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:30:04 -0500, Herb Fritatta


No, you can't point me with any spyware or adware that's known to
conflict with SP2 because none has been identified.


False. Go through MS's "front door" on SP2, and in the "before you
install SP2" section, there's a link for specific checks.

Follow that, and it will mention two issues known to kill SP2
installation; Prescott vs. SP2, and a particular commercial malware
(referred to as "unwanted software") that is known to crash SP2 .

I'm sure that's not the only malware that breaks SP2, and there may be
others that are known as well. But as that one is so "known" that
even MS singles it out; enough to refute your assertion ;-)




-------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

"I think it's time we took our
friendship to the next level"
'What, gender roles and abuse?'

-------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

I see no evidence of what you're referring to on the MS site, other than
links to AdAware and Spybot S&D. If I missed something, please post a
link. My original challenge stands, for you, Jupiter and all of the
other Microsycophants--unequivocally identify one single instance of any
type of spyware or adware that is known to conflict with SP2
installation. No one has done it yet--just vague, "I know there is one
but can't think of it right now" stuff. Put up or shut up.

Hi:

Just for everyone's information:


http://www.computerworld.com/newslet...0.html?nlid=OS

(1) Symantec: Viruses Aimed At Microsoft Rise Sharply - Nearly 5,000 new
Windows viruses and worms were documented in the first half of 2004, up from
about 1,000 in the same period a year earlier, according to computer
security firm Symantec.

(2) More importantly, "Symantec also said it expects more viruses and worms
to be written to attack systems that run on the Linux operating system and
handheld devices as they become more widely used." -- This is similar to
what I've shared my thoughts before.

Not a Microsoft fan and as said before and to be fair, it might not just
MS's problem alone and it's a problem for all users and IT professionals.

Live with the fact and stop complaining.



--
Business executive who believes technology but don't want to be messed
around.

"Hugh"
...
Do I detect a thread here, lotsa people seem to be
updating to XP SP2 and then start losing things like
soundcards, lan ports, printers, scanners, drives,
removable drives

Is it me - am I paranoid or has MS screwed it up
completely???

Hugh

Herb;
I see your requests as ludicrous since the nature and purpose of
spyware is often against good order for a computer.

You are free to search the newsgroups because the specifics are there.
But the issue is so obvious there is no reason for many of us to keep
track of which spyware, malware etc causes which issues.
Spyware and other malware needs to be gone not just for Service Pack
installation but more importantly for safe computing.
The fact I have seen some and Shenan has seen some is enough for us
and others to suggest the computer be cleaned of all that garbage.
For me to suggest only removing the ones I have personally verified
cause issues with SP-2 would be giving only a fraction of necessary
information.

If you want an actual list, you could probably start here and get
them:
http://spybot.eon.net.au/en/index.html
http://www.lavasoft.de/
Somewhere on those links may be specifics including the damage they
cause.

Lastly your need to insult others shows us something of your own
character.
If you had a point it was lost when your feeble need for insults
overshadowed you desire for facts.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Herb Fritatta" wrote in message
...
I see no evidence of what you're referring to on the MS site, other
than links to AdAware and Spybot S&D. If I missed something, please
post a link. My original challenge stands, for you, Jupiter and all
of the other Microsycophants--unequivocally identify one single
instance of any type of spyware or adware that is known to conflict
with SP2 installation. No one has done it yet--just vague, "I know
there is one but can't think of it right now" stuff. Put up or shut
up.

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

Herb;
I see your requests as ludicrous since the nature and purpose of
spyware is often against good order for a computer.

You are free to search the newsgroups because the specifics are there.
But the issue is so obvious there is no reason for many of us to keep
track of which spyware, malware etc causes which issues.
Spyware and other malware needs to be gone not just for Service Pack
installation but more importantly for safe computing.
The fact I have seen some and Shenan has seen some is enough for us
and others to suggest the computer be cleaned of all that garbage.
For me to suggest only removing the ones I have personally verified
cause issues with SP-2 would be giving only a fraction of necessary
information.

If you want an actual list, you could probably start here and get
them:
http://spybot.eon.net.au/en/index.html
http://www.lavasoft.de/
Somewhere on those links may be specifics including the damage they
cause.

Lastly your need to insult others shows us something of your own
character.
If you had a point it was lost when your feeble need for insults
overshadowed you desire for facts.


You've made yourself a prime target for insults through your own dogged
and nonsensical defenses of the indefensible. Do you think me so stupid
as to not realize what the "mal" in "malware" means? You keep trying to
change the subject, which is a classic strategy for someone who has
proposed a lame argument and refuses to admit it. We're not talking
about whether or not spyware and adware is, in general, a bad thing. You
and others have claimed that people who have been screwed by SP2 must
have computers riddled with spyware and adware, and that if we had been
more careful, nothing bad would have happened. I say "bullsh*#," and
ask you or anyone else to point to ONE piece of adware or spyware that
is unequivocally KNOWN to conflict with SP2 installation or performance.
You can't do it. End of story.

I never suggested anyone is stupid, that is your idea.
You claim "You keep trying to change the subject"?
Really?
How?
While you put meaning in my post that I never said.
"...claimed that people who have been screwed by SP2 must have
computers riddled with spyware and adware, and that if we had been
more careful, nothing bad would have happened."
Where did I say that?
Look hard and long because you will probably never find it.
I never suggested eliminating that garbage will cause "nothing bad
would have happened".
However I have stated many times something to the effect that
preparing the computer to include eliminating spyware will help for a
trouble-free installation of SP-2.
If you read that as you stated above, you may have a reading
comprehension problem.
Or you may be simply confusing my posts with someone else's...again,
your problem.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Herb Fritatta" wrote in message
...
You've made yourself a prime target for insults through your own
dogged and nonsensical defenses of the indefensible. Do you think me
so stupid as to not realize what the "mal" in "malware" means? You
keep trying to change the subject, which is a classic strategy for
someone who has proposed a lame argument and refuses to admit it.
We're not talking about whether or not spyware and adware is, in
general, a bad thing. You and others have claimed that people who
have been screwed by SP2 must have computers riddled with spyware
and adware, and that if we had been more careful, nothing bad would
have happened. I say "bullsh*#," and ask you or anyone else to
point to ONE piece of adware or spyware that is unequivocally KNOWN
to conflict with SP2 installation or performance. You can't do it.
End of story.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:43:31 -0500, Herb Fritatta
cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:30:04 -0500, Herb Fritatta

No, you can't point me with any spyware or adware that's known to
conflict with SP2 because none has been identified.

False. Go through MS's "front door" on SP2, and in the "before you
install SP2" section, there's a link for specific checks.

Follow that, and it will mention two issues known to kill SP2
installation; Prescott vs. SP2, and a particular commercial malware
(referred to as "unwanted software") that is known to crash SP2 .

I see no evidence of what you're referring to on the MS site, other than
links to AdAware and Spybot. If I missed something, please post link.

OK, let's have a look...

http://www.microsoft.com/

....clicking SP2 begats...

http://search.microsoft.com/search/r...w=en-us&qu=SP2

....top link is...

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...xp/choose.aspx

....reading this, I see...

paste1

Important: Follow these steps before installing Windows XP SP2 to
prevent potential conflicts with other software on your computer:

1. Back up your critical information.
2. Check your computer for spyware and other unwanted software.
3. Check for special update instructions from your computer's
manufacturer.

/paste1

"unwanted software" is a link to here...

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...kcomputer.mspx

....with "spyware" being a link to he

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...e/default.mspx

So far, so generic, but there's another "front door" to SP2 link that
can be linked from "learn more about SP2":

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/default.mspx

From there, there's a link to "what to know before..."

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/s...hattoknow.mspx

And you know what; I can't find the two links I saw there before, that
specifically warned about Prescott and one particular item of
"unwanted software". Looks like they've changed the links around,
prolly after setting up WU to exclude both issues.

Which means there should be a "why can't I get SP2 from Windows
update" /kb article somewhere.

My original challenge stands, for you, Jupiter and all of the
other Microsycophants--unequivocally identify one single instance of any
type of spyware or adware that is known to conflict with SP2
installation. No one has done it yet--just vague, "I know there is one
but can't think of it right now" stuff. Put up or shut up.

I'll certainly not shut up, in that anyone installing an OS over an
infected PC is terminally dumb if they expect no problems. But the
link I was thinking of has just plain evaporated, and that was an
interesting link in that it singled out one particular "unwanted
software" known to botch an SP2 install.

Think about what would happen if MS were to single out particular
commercial malware in this way; they could get sued by the crapware
vendor. They are not in the business of enumerating every specific
malware; there are others that do that, and MS points to them (e.g.
the links to AdAware all over the place).

I suspect it was legal jitters that caused MS to pull the information
I was looking for. If you want a list of software (including
commercial malware) that misbehaves in SP2, see the links you get if
you start from troubleshooting and FAQs.

And here's the one I was looking for:

http://support.microsoft.com/default...t=windowsxpsp2

paste2

This problem may occur if the following conditions are true:

* T.V. Media (TvMedia.tvmbho) from Total Velocity Corporation
is installed on your computer.
* You try to install Windows XP SP2.

Microsoft is investigating reports of a compatibility issue between
Windows XP SP2 and a third-party advertising program that is named
T.V. Media. The issue occurs when you have T.V. Media installed on
your computer, and you try to install Windows XP SP2. You receive a
Stop error when you restart your computer, and the installation
process fails.

/paste2

So, the evidence you seek is still there, just a lot more buried than
any of us would like (especially as it's a showstopper that botched
the OS). Obviously they aren't going to editorialize that T.V.Media
are commercial malware scumbags that should be burned to the ground
;-)



------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope
------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:43:31 -0500, Herb Fritatta

cquirke (MVP Win9x) wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:30:04 -0500, Herb Fritatta


No, you can't point me with any spyware or adware that's known to
conflict with SP2 because none has been identified.


False. Go through MS's "front door" on SP2, and in the "before you
install SP2" section, there's a link for specific checks.


Follow that, and it will mention two issues known to kill SP2
installation; Prescott vs. SP2, and a particular commercial malware
(referred to as "unwanted software") that is known to crash SP2 .


I see no evidence of what you're referring to on the MS site, other than
links to AdAware and Spybot. If I missed something, please post link.


OK, let's have a look...

http://www.microsoft.com/

...clicking SP2 begats...

http://search.microsoft.com/search/r...w=en-us&qu=SP2

...top link is...

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...xp/choose.aspx

...reading this, I see...

paste1

Important: Follow these steps before installing Windows XP SP2 to
prevent potential conflicts with other software on your computer:

1. Back up your critical information.
2. Check your computer for spyware and other unwanted software.
3. Check for special update instructions from your computer's
manufacturer.

/paste1

"unwanted software" is a link to here...

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...kcomputer.mspx

...with "spyware" being a link to he

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...e/default.mspx

So far, so generic, but there's another "front door" to SP2 link that
can be linked from "learn more about SP2":

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/default.mspx

From there, there's a link to "what to know before..."

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/s...hattoknow.mspx

And you know what; I can't find the two links I saw there before, that
specifically warned about Prescott and one particular item of
"unwanted software". Looks like they've changed the links around,
prolly after setting up WU to exclude both issues.

Which means there should be a "why can't I get SP2 from Windows
update" /kb article somewhere.


My original challenge stands, for you, Jupiter and all of the
other Microsycophants--unequivocally identify one single instance of any
type of spyware or adware that is known to conflict with SP2
installation. No one has done it yet--just vague, "I know there is one
but can't think of it right now" stuff. Put up or shut up.


I'll certainly not shut up, in that anyone installing an OS over an
infected PC is terminally dumb if they expect no problems. But the
link I was thinking of has just plain evaporated, and that was an
interesting link in that it singled out one particular "unwanted
software" known to botch an SP2 install.

Think about what would happen if MS were to single out particular
commercial malware in this way; they could get sued by the crapware
vendor. They are not in the business of enumerating every specific
malware; there are others that do that, and MS points to them (e.g.
the links to AdAware all over the place).

I suspect it was legal jitters that caused MS to pull the information
I was looking for. If you want a list of software (including
commercial malware) that misbehaves in SP2, see the links you get if
you start from troubleshooting and FAQs.

And here's the one I was looking for:

http://support.microsoft.com/default...t=windowsxpsp2

paste2

This problem may occur if the following conditions are true:

* T.V. Media (TvMedia.tvmbho) from Total Velocity Corporation
is installed on your computer.
* You try to install Windows XP SP2.

Microsoft is investigating reports of a compatibility issue between
Windows XP SP2 and a third-party advertising program that is named
T.V. Media. The issue occurs when you have T.V. Media installed on
your computer, and you try to install Windows XP SP2. You receive a
Stop error when you restart your computer, and the installation
process fails.

/paste2

So, the evidence you seek is still there, just a lot more buried than
any of us would like (especially as it's a showstopper that botched
the OS). Obviously they aren't going to editorialize that T.V.Media
are commercial malware scumbags that should be burned to the ground
;-)




------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope

------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

So MS is investigating, and there "might be" a direct conflict, and your
links went nowhere I hadn't already been; what's your point, vis-a-vis
the original question?

Herb Fritatta wrote:
So MS is investigating, and there "might be" a direct conflict, and
your links went nowhere I hadn't already been; what's your point,
vis-a-vis the original question?


If I am not mistaken, the original "question" (if you want to call it that)
was from "Hugh" and is quoted below (in reference to SP2):

"Is it me - am I paranoid or has MS screwed it up completely???"

And I believe that has been answered in various threads and by common sense.
MS could not have screwed it up "completely" or there would be no argument.
If they had screwed it up "completely", there would be no working machine,
no one saying "it worked for me" at all.

That doesn't mean the OP is paranoid, necessarily - but it does allow one to
answer the question simply (on an overall basis) with "No - MS did not screw
up completely - there are unique cases where SP2 does not work - period.
The reasons are varied for this - so yes, it could be 'just you'."

Now, perhaps you meant your original question - and I will preclude this
with a "I am surprised to see a particular "adware" identified so bluntly" -
presented in the quote below:

"Can you point me to a reference that categorically identifies *any* piece
of adware or spyware which is known to conflict with SP2 or *known* to
create installation problems?"

And I have to concede, this MS article does categorically identify a
particular piece of adware which is known to conflict with SP2.

Now hold on - I did agree with you at first - a lot of "wishy-washy
language" is present in the given article:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=885523

"This problem may occur.."
"Microsoft is investigating reports of a compatibility issue.."
"T.V. Media is a third-party advertising program that you may not want to
continue running."

Yep - wishy-washy, uncertain, inconclusive even. But it gave me something
to hold on to and search with. Primarily "T.V. Media" as a specified adware
application. So I searched. This is what I found.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=885627

Now they still use the obligatory "The problem may occur if one or more of
the following conditions are true:" statements. However, I cannot say I
would not put that phrase in front of everything I said if I too had a large
crew of legal advisors that had to approve what I posted every time. What a
pain.

However, it did seem more confident in their presentation of the "T.V.
Media" adware than in the previous article.

"A third-party advertising program that is named T.V. Media is installed on
your computer. (T.V. Media is from Total Velocity Corporation.) To help you
avoid a failed Windows XP SP2 installation from Windows Update or from
Automatic Updates, we have temporarily blocked the download of Windows XP
SP2 to computers that have T.V. Media installed."

"Microsoft has recently discovered a compatibility issue between Windows XP
SP2 installation and a third-party advertising program that is named T.V.
Media."

"If you want to install Windows XP SP2, you must completely remove T.V.
Media from your system. The simplest way to remove T.V. Media is to use a
third-party tool that removes unwanted software. After you remove T.V.
Media, Windows XP SP2 will be available to install from Windows Update or
from Automatic Updates."

The article does go into some generalities on how to remove it and that they
recommend using this software to clean up anyway, but they seem vehement
about killing this "T.V. Media" adware in "Method 3" of this article.

I still agree that *if* there is anyone saying that everyone who is having
trouble installing SP2 wouldn't have this trouble if they cleaned their
system of spyware - they are wrong. However, I also have decided that this
article does, in fact, cover a particular piece of adware that causes so
much trouble with the installation of SP2, Microsoft themselves have
basically blocked people from getting SP2 unless it is cleaned from their
system first.

In my searches, I also found Microsoft has even created their own tool to
help remove this particular piece of adware.

Adware T.V. Media Program Removal Tool
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=886590

Download page for the above tool:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
(Short link: http://snipurl.com/99jw )

And again - no wishy-washy language here.

"This adware interferes with successful installation of Windows XP Service
Pack 2."


Hope that settles this issue - which has gone on far too long for something
so insignificant in my opinion. *If* someone is giving false advice (saying
that the reason most cannot install SP2 is strictly spyware/adware) - they
are wrong. *If* someone wants a specific example of adware that causes
trouble when trying to install SP2 - this response gives it to them. *If*
someone believes someone with a with a properly maintained system should not
have trouble installing SP2 - I believe they may be incorrect - there will
be systems out there that do not upgrade properly to SP2 for a variety of
reasons unrelated to a properly maintained system. Can these problems be
corrected as well without the end-user spending money - that remains to be
seen.

--
- Shenan -
--
The information is provided "as is", it is suggested you research for
yourself before you take any advice - you are the one ultimately
responsible for your actions/problems/solutions. Know what you are
getting into before you jump in with both feet.

Shenan Stanley wrote:
Herb Fritatta wrote:

So MS is investigating, and there "might be" a direct conflict, and
your links went nowhere I hadn't already been; what's your point,
vis-a-vis the original question?



If I am not mistaken, the original "question" (if you want to call it that)
was from "Hugh" and is quoted below (in reference to SP2):

"Is it me - am I paranoid or has MS screwed it up completely???"

And I believe that has been answered in various threads and by common sense.
MS could not have screwed it up "completely" or there would be no argument.
If they had screwed it up "completely", there would be no working machine,
no one saying "it worked for me" at all.

That doesn't mean the OP is paranoid, necessarily - but it does allow one to
answer the question simply (on an overall basis) with "No - MS did not screw
up completely - there are unique cases where SP2 does not work - period.
The reasons are varied for this - so yes, it could be 'just you'."

Now, perhaps you meant your original question - and I will preclude this
with a "I am surprised to see a particular "adware" identified so bluntly" -
presented in the quote below:

"Can you point me to a reference that categorically identifies *any* piece
of adware or spyware which is known to conflict with SP2 or *known* to
create installation problems?"

And I have to concede, this MS article does categorically identify a
particular piece of adware which is known to conflict with SP2.

Now hold on - I did agree with you at first - a lot of "wishy-washy
language" is present in the given article:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=885523

"This problem may occur.."
"Microsoft is investigating reports of a compatibility issue.."
"T.V. Media is a third-party advertising program that you may not want to
continue running."

Yep - wishy-washy, uncertain, inconclusive even. But it gave me something
to hold on to and search with. Primarily "T.V. Media" as a specified adware
application. So I searched. This is what I found.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=885627

Now they still use the obligatory "The problem may occur if one or more of
the following conditions are true:" statements. However, I cannot say I
would not put that phrase in front of everything I said if I too had a large
crew of legal advisors that had to approve what I posted every time. What a
pain.

However, it did seem more confident in their presentation of the "T.V.
Media" adware than in the previous article.

"A third-party advertising program that is named T.V. Media is installed on
your computer. (T.V. Media is from Total Velocity Corporation.) To help you
avoid a failed Windows XP SP2 installation from Windows Update or from
Automatic Updates, we have temporarily blocked the download of Windows XP
SP2 to computers that have T.V. Media installed."

"Microsoft has recently discovered a compatibility issue between Windows XP
SP2 installation and a third-party advertising program that is named T.V.
Media."

"If you want to install Windows XP SP2, you must completely remove T.V.
Media from your system. The simplest way to remove T.V. Media is to use a
third-party tool that removes unwanted software. After you remove T.V.
Media, Windows XP SP2 will be available to install from Windows Update or
from Automatic Updates."

The article does go into some generalities on how to remove it and that they
recommend using this software to clean up anyway, but they seem vehement
about killing this "T.V. Media" adware in "Method 3" of this article.

I still agree that *if* there is anyone saying that everyone who is having
trouble installing SP2 wouldn't have this trouble if they cleaned their
system of spyware - they are wrong. However, I also have decided that this
article does, in fact, cover a particular piece of adware that causes so
much trouble with the installation of SP2, Microsoft themselves have
basically blocked people from getting SP2 unless it is cleaned from their
system first.

In my searches, I also found Microsoft has even created their own tool to
help remove this particular piece of adware.

Adware T.V. Media Program Removal Tool
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=886590

Download page for the above tool:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
(Short link: http://snipurl.com/99jw )

And again - no wishy-washy language here.

"This adware interferes with successful installation of Windows XP Service
Pack 2."


Hope that settles this issue - which has gone on far too long for something
so insignificant in my opinion. *If* someone is giving false advice (saying
that the reason most cannot install SP2 is strictly spyware/adware) - they
are wrong. *If* someone wants a specific example of adware that causes
trouble when trying to install SP2 - this response gives it to them. *If*
someone believes someone with a with a properly maintained system should not
have trouble installing SP2 - I believe they may be incorrect - there will
be systems out there that do not upgrade properly to SP2 for a variety of
reasons unrelated to a properly maintained system. Can these problems be
corrected as well without the end-user spending money - that remains to be
seen.


I agree completely. My whole point in extending this discussion was that
there are far too many parrots in these newsgroups who have no idea what
they're talking about but don't let that stop them from offering advice
and criticism. A few of these do so with the MS imprimatur,
unfortunately. The links you uncovered are very well buried, which
seems to be a general flaw in the MS support site, but I salute you for
unearthing them.