Microsoft end of support dates

Mark Lloyd
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 13:49:37 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

On 7/13/20 7:48 AM, Brian Gregory wrote:

[snip]

I think you could fiddle about and set up Windows 95/98/ME so
that you did have to type win to get in to Windows. The fact that
this was happening was just hidden from you by default.
They tried to stop that with ME, but there was a patch available t
restore the ability to boot to the command line instead of to the
Windows GUI.

A patch for those unable to edit a file, sure.




--
Right theory, wrong universe.

Joel
Sun, 12 Jul 2020
19:51:47 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

Diesel wrote:

I wasn't a gamer myself, either, but the family's shared
computer was 95 upgraded to 98, so that's what I had before the
2000 machine.

I didn't have a family shared computer. And my first one wasn't
running any flavors of Windows. ;p My third one did, though, but
windows 95 didn't exist yet. I had to wait a few more years for
that to take place. And I was more into Os/2 myself - it ran BBSes
better.


It wasn't our first computer, we'd had an Apple IIe for a few
years before it, but it was our first brand new computer (the IIe
we'd gotten used, my mom used them at work as a teacher, and
wanted it to be able to work from home - I wasn't happy about it
at first, but I ended up finding it a good machine to practice
programming on).

I see. My first computer at home was an early birthday present -
Tandy Color Computer 3 (a Coco); I eventually got most of the
peripherals for it over time. My friends had commodores, amigas and
ataris, so between us, we had a variety of systems on which to learn
and play around with.

I later upgraded to my first PC - A Tandy3000NL. Technically, a
"business" class machine. My second PC was a cyrix486DLC40, better
than my 286, but not quite as good/fast as a genuine intel 486dx/33
or even a 386dx40. Either of those would outrun the cyrix I had at
the time. The 286 didn't originally come with a hard drive, I got a
40meg drive with a controller card for it later on. Originally it ran
from a single 1.44mb floppy drive. The cyrix came with a 250meg hd.
Which was pretty good size for the time.

The computer that originally had 2000 was a 500 MHz K6-2, so yeah,
it wasn't exactly high end by XP standards, although certainly
capable of running it.

I had XP running on a k6 and a k6/2-350, so yea I know the 500 would
run it. Just, not smooth and silky response. The K6 were good to
build cheap gaming rigs, but if you let them get too hot even one
time, there would be a damn good chance you'd burn out the L2 cache
on the chip. And if you did, to make it run stable again, you'd have
to turn L2 cache off in the bios. And once you did that, the box
while stable would be dog**** slow.


Damn. On a side note, Firefox still has a memory leak issue with
the newest version, on MXLinux. Does the same ****ing thing on
Mint too, though, so it's not a distro issue...


That's unfortunate, I'm running Ubuntu, Firefox 78.0.1 is the
version I've been updated to currently. System Monitor doesn't
show it using too terribly much RAM at the moment, but if I run
into issues, I'll keep an eye on that.

No, that's not what I meant. I left it open with a few tabs open over
night. The linux rig was slow to respond letting me unlock the screen
saver and delayed a moment or two afterwards, as it pounded the hd.
(solid light). When you leave firefox open too long, it chews up
resources and doesn't give em back.







--
Men for the sake of getting a living forget to live. - Margaret
Fuller

Snit
Mon, 13 Jul 2020 00:01:34 GMT
in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

On 7/12/20 4:49 PM, Diesel wrote:
Snit
Sun, 12 Jul 2020 20:19:29
GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

On 7/12/20 1:14 PM, Joel wrote:
David_B wrote:

Firefox 78.0.1 is the version
I've been updated to currently.

I'm a bit ahead of you! ;-)

https://ibb.co/GkxcgKL


I just checked for updates, nothing yet. I could download it
directly from Mozilla, but all my browsing history is in the
distro version, so it's kind of pointless.


If you install from another source it wipes out your browsing
history?

It can, bookmarks, cookies, etc, too. He's using the distro
build. He could copy the data and restore it, but he'd have to
know where his profile is being stored on his distro, since it's
not using his home folder.

He already explained it to me ... and not quite as you did.

You found his explanation easier? It was rather generic.


--
What did the elephant say to the naked man?
How do you pick up anything with that?

Snit
Tue, 14 Jul 2020 01:09:02 GMT
in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

You failed. Sure.

You should reduce your prescription drug intake.

I didn't just go into more detail. I asked if you'd done any of
those things too.

Yeah, you played a lot of games to move away from your nonsense
bragging of having worked with computers without mice.

I wasn't bragging about doing that. I was dating myself, as I already
told you.

As long as you continue writing lies like below, I suppose I'll
continue to appear to be a complete and utter ass about it, sure.


Maybe if you learned to understand what you read? Here, 14 posts
where the misunderstanding is explained:

I understand things fine. You cherry picked a paragraph out of a
reply I wrote in response to something you were wrong about. (No
surprise there). There's no misunderstanding (on my part) as can
clearly been seen he


in full context:
MID:
http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=158278349300

You wrote:

Without knowing more of the purpose we cannot say if the output
shows the code to be good or not. One has to see the code to know
that.

I responded to you with this:

How long have you been writing code of any kind? The resulting output
(most programmers, and all coders know this) certainly does give an
individual a very good idea of the coding behind it. Ie: how it's
being generated, what algorithms are likely in use.

One doesn't have to see original source code to be able to determine
what the program most likely is, if the programs output can be
sampled.

Do you think when you disassemble something that you're provided the
original source code that was compiled/assembled by the author? You
aren't, what you're given looks nothing like the original source
code, but it still tells you *everything* about the program.

** end paste

As anyone, even you, can clearly see, the third paragraph was related
directly to the two previous ones. It contained another question,
specifically to you. It had nothing whatsoever to do with any bot
code. You've been intentionally removing the first two paragraphs
that go with it, ignoring the questions presented in them, and trying
to pass the third paragraph off as something else entirely, while
again, ignoring ALL of the questions asked of you, specifically, of
you, concerning your actual knowledge of programming.

















A shame you have such an issue with comprehension.

I don't. As I've told you before, if I had the problem you project
onto me, I wouldn't be able to do the types of work I do for a
living. It just wouldn't be possible.

http://tinyurl.com/gremlinslab

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcWrrlTRFdM
coil driver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU05nXWYr88
jacobs ladder

A shame you can't backup a single negative comment you've written
about me so far, isn't it, Snit.

I
don't like people who lie on me as you've done. I don't know many
(anyone?) who would.


http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=159159190100

"Diesel made it clear he had access not just to the output of the
bot but to the code itself. When called out on this he clarified
it was merely the compiled code he had"

*** end snippit

I ask again:

Where are the post(s) showing I made anything clear about access
to more than the output of the bot? The output as you know, or
should, are the posts it makes. Where is the post by someone
calling me out for what I wrote? Where is the post where I
clarified it was "merely" the compiled code I had?

Provide MIDs to backup those *lies*, Snit.

So about those MIDs then?

No MIDs to backup what you wrote, Snit?


--
Cats must hide in the kitchen drawers and jump out at Mom.

Diesel wrote:

What evidence? The delay was explained due to the serious changes
in the GUI, which involved modifying some underlying code as well
as driver code. There was no start over, let's rewrite windows
from the ground up, from scratch as you seem to be erroneously
thinking here.

I just don't see how that adds up. I could be wrong, but it
shouldn't have taken that much time to do what you're suggesting.
The length of time, and shoddy results, suggest that I'm right.

You are wrong. There's nothing to suggest you're right about this.


Except that there is, I've explained it clearly. If I'm wrong I'd be
extremely surprised.


I don't remember the source of the article I read about it, it was
at least 15 years ago, but it was quite clear that Microsoft had
determined that the XP/2003 codebase was "broken", and had to be
completely redone.

It's quite clear what you thought happened, didn't.

Applause and criticism of Windows are nothing more than collateral
products inherent with the success and ubiquity of the product on
the operating system market. According to Larry Osterman, Microsoft
Senior Software Development Engineer, some of the negative input
associated with the Windows platform point to the abandoning of the
current kernel and starting up from scratch.

Osterman however indicated that there is absolutely no chance of
Microsoft throwing away the core of the operating system and
starting up from scratch with a new technology. Windows 7 (Seven),
the successor of Windows Vista is an illustrative example of
Microsoft carrying on with the Windows development based on the
foundation built with the previous versions of the client. Still,
Osterman did not dispute the need for a change.

"And maybe they're right. Maybe Windows would be better if we threw
away the current kernel and rewrote it using . I don't know, and I
doubt that I'll ever find out. The reason is that making any
substantial modifications to an operating system as large and as
successful as Windows is hard. Really, really, really hard. You can
see this with Vista - in the scheme of things, there were relatively
few changes made to existing elements of the operating system (as
far as I can tell, the biggest one was the conversion from the XP
display driver model to the Vista display driver model), but even
those changes have caused a non trivial amount of pain for our
customers", he revealed.

And yet, Microsoft is indeed hammering away at the core of the
Windows operating system. In this context, Windows 7, the product
number imposed by Steven Sinofsky, Senior Vice President, Windows
and Windows Live Engineering Group, to replace the Vienna codename,
will feature a brand new, and stripped down kernel. Microsoft
Distinguished Engineer Eric Traut is piling off all possible
components from the Windows kernel in search for a bare-bone core
dubbed MiniWin.


I knew about MinWin from watching a lecture by Mark Russinovich in the
early days of Win7, it's not relevant to this debate though, because
it wasn't a new product as such, it was based directly on the full
blown Win7 code. But that in turn was based on Vista, which was only
based on XP to the extent that it implemented the functions of the OS,
not that it actually built on the same code.


Now, if you can actually provide reputable sources which contradict
that article, feel free to share them. If you can't, the article
stands on it's own; especially since it's an interview with a senior
software development person from MS. They'd know if they rewrote it
from scratch, as you mistakenly assumed to be the case because,
well, you read it someplace. Uh huh.


Explain why it was so buggy before service pack 2, then. That just
doesn't make any sense. 2000 and XP were usable from the moment they
were released, as was 7. Why was Vista so different?

--
Joel Crump

Diesel wrote:

Damn. On a side note, Firefox still has a memory leak issue with
the newest version, on MXLinux. Does the same ****ing thing on
Mint too, though, so it's not a distro issue...

That's unfortunate, I'm running Ubuntu, Firefox 78.0.1 is the
version I've been updated to currently. System Monitor doesn't
show it using too terribly much RAM at the moment, but if I run
into issues, I'll keep an eye on that.

No, that's not what I meant. I left it open with a few tabs open over
night. The linux rig was slow to respond letting me unlock the screen
saver and delayed a moment or two afterwards, as it pounded the hd.
(solid light). When you leave firefox open too long, it chews up
resources and doesn't give em back.


Ah, yeah, I try to not leave a lot of tabs open. I love Firefox but
there is no perfect browser. I just try to keep it tidy.

--
Joel Crump

"Joel" wrote:
[...] Vista, which was only based on XP to the extent that it
implemented the functions of the OS, not that it actually built
on the same code.

There were a lot of changes in Vista and much code will have been
reworked/rewritten but it is still an incremental build from NT 5.2
(Server 2003) to NT 6.0 (Vista) of the same NT OS as conceived by
Dave Cutler and friends. There has been redesign of some nmajor
components.

"building on the Windows Server 2003 codebase"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Develo..._Windows_Vista

That, and a series of linked entries from there show how much work
and changes went into it over a long period.

On 2020-07-15, Apd wrote:
"Joel" wrote:
[...] Vista, which was only based on XP to the extent that it
implemented the functions of the OS, not that it actually built
on the same code.

There were a lot of changes in Vista and much code will have been
reworked/rewritten but it is still an incremental build from NT 5.2
(Server 2003) to NT 6.0 (Vista) of the same NT OS as conceived by
Dave Cutler and friends. There has been redesign of some nmajor
components.

"building on the Windows Server 2003 codebase"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Develo..._Windows_Vista

That, and a series of linked entries from there show how much work
and changes went into it over a long period.

Are you forging Apd, who uses an aioe account?

"Steve Carroll" wrote:
Are you forging Apd, who uses an aioe account?

WTF? I have been using a "custom" ES account for some time now.
Aioe is used as a backup.

On 2020-07-15, Apd wrote:
"Steve Carroll" wrote:
Are you forging Apd, who uses an aioe account?

WTF? I have been using a "custom" ES account for some time now.
Aioe is used as a backup.

Settle down... I wrote that for Snit's benefit


Speaking of "custom", I assume you mean FDQN? I reg'd one but it doesn't
auto-inject. I emailed the guy but he hasn't gotten back to me. What, if
anything, did you need to do to get yours to show? And it is unique to
you, IOW, can no one else register it?

"Apd" wrote:

[...] Vista, which was only based on XP to the extent that it
implemented the functions of the OS, not that it actually built
on the same code.

There were a lot of changes in Vista and much code will have been
reworked/rewritten but it is still an incremental build from NT 5.2
(Server 2003) to NT 6.0 (Vista) of the same NT OS as conceived by
Dave Cutler and friends. There has been redesign of some nmajor
components.

"building on the Windows Server 2003 codebase"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Develo..._Windows_Vista

That, and a series of linked entries from there show how much work
and changes went into it over a long period.


Reading that does elucidate some of the timing aspects, but it's still
amazing that it was released with the quality of a beta, and it took
till the second service pack to change that. If it wasn't a rewrite,
they sure could've fooled me into thinking it was.

--
Joel Crump

"Steve Carroll" wrote:
On 2020-07-15, Apd wrote:
"Steve Carroll" wrote:
Are you forging Apd, who uses an aioe account?

WTF? I have been using a "custom" ES account for some time now.
Aioe is used as a backup.

Settle down... I wrote that for Snit's benefit

I'm settled!

Speaking of "custom", I assume you mean FDQN?

Yes, FQDN.

I reg'd one but it doesn't
auto-inject. I emailed the guy but he hasn't gotten back to me. What,
if anything, did you need to do to get yours to show?

Nothing. Just type a subdomain and "submit query". I got a
confirmation email but it didn't want a reply. If you go to that page
it should say: "You have already registered the FQDN [your domain].
If you would like to change it, you can do so by editing it now".

And it is unique to you, IOW, can no one else register it?

I expect that's the case otherwise what's the point?

On 2020-07-15, Apd wrote:
"Steve Carroll" wrote:
On 2020-07-15, Apd wrote:
"Steve Carroll" wrote:
Are you forging Apd, who uses an aioe account?

WTF? I have been using a "custom" ES account for some time now.
Aioe is used as a backup.

Settle down... I wrote that for Snit's benefit

I'm settled!

Speaking of "custom", I assume you mean FDQN?

Yes, FQDN.

I reg'd one but it doesn't
auto-inject. I emailed the guy but he hasn't gotten back to me. What,
if anything, did you need to do to get yours to show?

Nothing. Just type a subdomain and "submit query". I got a
confirmation email but it didn't want a reply. If you go to that page
it should say: "You have already registered the FQDN [your domain].
If you would like to change it, you can do so by editing it now".

And it is unique to you, IOW, can no one else register it?

I expect that's the case otherwise what's the point?

For some reason mine isn's showing up.

Steve Carroll was thinking very hard :
On 2020-07-15, Apd wrote:
"Steve Carroll" wrote:
On 2020-07-15, Apd wrote:
"Steve Carroll" wrote:
Are you forging Apd, who uses an aioe account?

WTF? I have been using a "custom" ES account for some time now.
Aioe is used as a backup.

Settle down... I wrote that for Snit's benefit

I'm settled!

Speaking of "custom", I assume you mean FDQN?

Yes, FQDN.

I reg'd one but it doesn't
auto-inject. I emailed the guy but he hasn't gotten back to me. What,
if anything, did you need to do to get yours to show?

Nothing. Just type a subdomain and "submit query". I got a
confirmation email but it didn't want a reply. If you go to that page
it should say: "You have already registered the FQDN [your domain].
If you would like to change it, you can do so by editing it now".

And it is unique to you, IOW, can no one else register it?

I expect that's the case otherwise what's the point?

For some reason mine isn's showing up.

Are you reader02?

On 7/15/20 8:55 AM, Apd wrote:
"Steve Carroll" wrote:
Are you forging Apd, who uses an aioe account?

WTF? I have been using a "custom" ES account for some time now.
Aioe is used as a backup.


Carroll is setting you up to blame me for forging and hacking him. Much
as he has been conversing with one of his socks because I have not been
giving him as much attention as he craves.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.