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#16
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 10/07/2020 19.55, Joel wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote: As for Windows Me, the idea was to redesign the 9x line to be more like 2000, for example it included the new TCP/IP in 2000 (and in 95, 98, 98 SE and NT 4, it had been abysmal, so that was one thing in Me's favor). The problem was that for many if not most computers, Me was far less stable than 98 SE. There were exceptions to that, but it was released with a lot of flaws. I bought a desktop computer at the time that came with Windows Me - I did not find it specially faulty. Later I upgraded it to Linux and double booted. Yeah, a friend of mine bought a computer that came with WinMe, and for him it was just fine. But others had serious problems with it. Kind of strange, and yet we're seeing similar issues with Win10 today - an update works for some people and royally screws up with others. My guess is that the vendor made sure the machine worked. It seems that updates are worse nowdays, they discarded the team that tested them through. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
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#17
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 2020-07-10 12:55 p.m., Joel wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote: As for Windows Me, the idea was to redesign the 9x line to be more like 2000, for example it included the new TCP/IP in 2000 (and in 95, 98, 98 SE and NT 4, it had been abysmal, so that was one thing in Me's favor). The problem was that for many if not most computers, Me was far less stable than 98 SE. There were exceptions to that, but it was released with a lot of flaws. I bought a desktop computer at the time that came with Windows Me - I did not find it specially faulty. Later I upgraded it to Linux and double booted. Yeah, a friend of mine bought a computer that came with WinMe, and for him it was just fine. But others had serious problems with it. Kind of strange, and yet we're seeing similar issues with Win10 today - an update works for some people and royally screws up with others. Never any problems with ME here neither, also none with Win 10 Rene n |
#18
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 3:15 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 00:00:55 +0100, Snit wrote: On 7/9/20 3:51 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote: Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0 "Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985" "On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system." I did not use Windows 1, but I did use an Apple IIe for years. The Apple II series was sold for 17 years, which is rather amazing. Even the IIe version, with just minor changes, sold for 11 years. Then they had an Apple IIe on a card made for Macs (I had one of those in a lab I ran). The Apple IIgs was also backward compatible with it -- I used to own one of the Woz signed ones. I loaned it out and it was stolen -- which really irked me. Oh well. It's a pity Apple don't do compatibility any more.* Every time a new connector comes out, they ditch the old one.* I remember having to throw away or donate printers etc when we changed to Macs with USB on them instead of serial ports.* PCs however kept the serial and parallel ports, and some made now still have them! Apple has always gone their own way with ports... which has pros and cons. For the most part it has not been a problem for me -- but there have been times. And even when the ports work, they drop support for things, like their own modems. Not a huge deal for me but not ideal. -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. |
#19
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 9:02 AM, Joel wrote:
"Commander Kinsey" wrote: Another oddity, what was Windows ME for? Once 2000 was out, we had an NT based OS which also played games. ME was pointless. Windows 2000 was originally intended to be what XP ended up being - an NT version for both business and home use. They didn't quite get there, so they released only the business version, but, around the time they were completing XP, a service pack for 2000 was released that backported the key features of XP to 2000, and it became more compatible with old games, etc. As for Windows Me, the idea was to redesign the 9x line to be more like 2000, for example it included the new TCP/IP in 2000 (and in 95, 98, 98 SE and NT 4, it had been abysmal, so that was one thing in Me's favor). The problem was that for many if not most computers, Me was far less stable than 98 SE. There were exceptions to that, but it was released with a lot of flaws. Worked with someone who had an ME machine that came with a printer. The printer was not compatible with ME. From what I saw Windows ME was a disaster. -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. |
#20
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 5:14 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
[snip] But it's very odd they supported it until 2001, by which times we'd had Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, NT 4 (and 1, 2, 3?) 2000. IIRC. windows NT started with (about) NT 3.5 so the numbers would parallel the numbers for DOS-based Windows. 2000 is NT 5. Another oddity, what was Windows ME for?* Once 2000 was out, we had an NT based OS which also played games.* ME was pointless. Maybe MS wanted to continue the DOS-based series (intended for home use). I had ME before I started using 2000, which was a definite improvement. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Next to a circus there ain't nothing that packs up and tears out any quicker than the Christmas spirit." [Kin Hubbard] |
#21
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 5:15 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
[snip] It's a pity Apple don't do compatibility any more.* Every time a new connector comes out, they ditch the old one.* I remember having to throw away or donate printers etc when we changed to Macs with USB on them instead of serial ports.* PCs however kept the serial and parallel ports, and some made now still have them! The latest desktop systems I bought had them, but only as motherboard headers. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Next to a circus there ain't nothing that packs up and tears out any quicker than the Christmas spirit." [Kin Hubbard] |
#22
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 6:27 AM, Wolffan wrote:
On 10 Jul 2020, Commander Kinsey wrote (in article op.0njap7viwdg98l@glass): On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 01:30:22 +0100, Eric wrote: On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:51:43 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" wrote: Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0 "Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985" "On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system." Those who used it regarded Windows 1.0 as obsolete almost from the beginning. I never even heard of it and wondered why Windows 2 was the first one. When I looked up that query, I found there was a windows 1. But it's very odd they supported it until 2001, by which times we'd had Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, NT 4 (and 1, 2, 3?) 2000. there was never any NT 1 or 2. NT started with 3, actually 3.1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT Basically, it takes Microsoft at least three tries to get a good product out the door. Win 1 stunk. Win 2 stunk worse. Win 3 was actually usable, but required more work. Win 3.1 and then Win 3.1.1 followed. NT 3 was never actually released; NT3.1 was... problematic. NT 3.5 and then NT 3.51 quickly came out. NT 4 was... not so good. NT 5 fixed most of the problems. NT 5.1 (a.k.a XP) ruled the desktop for a very long time indeed. Note that Vista was NT 6 and Win 7 was NT 6.1, Win 8 was NT 6.2, and Win 8.1 was NT 6.3... The first (prerelease) Win10 I had had an internal version number of 6.4. They changed to 10 before the official release. [snip] ME was the worst MS OS since Bob (you don’t want to know about Bob. You really don’t. Bob was a total disaster, the gold standard of what never, ever, to do in an OS. It’s still the worst thing Microsoft has ever released. Yes, worse than Zune. Worse than Windows RT. Worse than Kin. The only reason why the project manager in charge of Bob wasn’t fired was that she was married to Bill.), and the worst until Win 8. It was basically 98SE plus the interface from NT 5 plus tons of bugs, and was intended for home use. NT 5.1, XP, killed off ME by having a home use version as well as a business version. I never could find that "worst" version of ME. What I had was slightly better than 98, but only slightly. When setting up an old system recently, I chose ME over 98 but only because ME comes with the USB storage driver, making setup a little easier. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Next to a circus there ain't nothing that packs up and tears out any quicker than the Christmas spirit." [Kin Hubbard] |
#23
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 6:29 AM, Wolffan wrote:
[snip] That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting MSDOS 6 as well as Win 2 & 3 which depended on it or lower versions. Win95& 98 ran on MSDOS 7+. Later 98 as well as 98SE came with DOS 7.1 (which added FAT32 support). ME came with a limited DOS called version 8. BTW, long file name support was not a DOS feature, but a part of Windows. 95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were applications running on DOS. 95/98/98SE/ME ran on DOS too. It's just that DOS was provided with Windows. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Next to a circus there ain't nothing that packs up and tears out any quicker than the Christmas spirit." [Kin Hubbard] |
#24
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Microsoft end of support dates
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 21:16:48 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 7/10/20 5:15 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote: [snip] It's a pity Apple don't do compatibility any more. Every time a new connector comes out, they ditch the old one. I remember having to throw away or donate printers etc when we changed to Macs with USB on them instead of serial ports. PCs however kept the serial and parallel ports, and some made now still have them! The latest desktop systems I bought had them, but only as motherboard headers. So you could easily buy a lead for them. And I've had quite a few with actual ports on the back. The point is they stayed on all PCs for years after USB came out, so you didn't have to change every peripheral along with the computer. But Apple want you to waste even more money. |
#25
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Microsoft end of support dates
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 20:33:47 +0100, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 3:15 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote: On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 00:00:55 +0100, Snit wrote: On 7/9/20 3:51 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote: Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0 "Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985" "On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system." I did not use Windows 1, but I did use an Apple IIe for years. The Apple II series was sold for 17 years, which is rather amazing. Even the IIe version, with just minor changes, sold for 11 years. Then they had an Apple IIe on a card made for Macs (I had one of those in a lab I ran). The Apple IIgs was also backward compatible with it -- I used to own one of the Woz signed ones. I loaned it out and it was stolen -- which really irked me. Oh well. It's a pity Apple don't do compatibility any more. Every time a new connector comes out, they ditch the old one. I remember having to throw away or donate printers etc when we changed to Macs with USB on them instead of serial ports. PCs however kept the serial and parallel ports, and some made now still have them! Apple has always gone their own way with ports... which has pros and cons. For the most part it has not been a problem for me -- but there have been times. And even when the ports work, they drop support for things, like their own modems. Not a huge deal for me but not ideal. I stick to PCs for 4 reasons. 1) The interface is way easier. 2) They're half the price due to competition. 3) Way more software and hardware available. 4) They don't look like something a woman would buy. The only thing I like about Macs is they put OK and Cancel the right way round in the dialog boxes. |
#26
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 2:49 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
.... It's a pity Apple don't do compatibility any more.* Every time a new connector comes out, they ditch the old one.* I remember having to throw away or donate printers etc when we changed to Macs with USB on them instead of serial ports.* PCs however kept the serial and parallel ports, and some made now still have them! Apple has always gone their own way with ports... which has pros and cons. For the most part it has not been a problem for me -- but there have been times. And even when the ports work, they drop support for things, like their own modems. Not a huge deal for me but not ideal. I stick to PCs for 4 reasons. 1) The interface is way easier. 2) They're half the price due to competition. 3) Way more software and hardware available. 4) They don't look like something a woman would buy. The only thing I like about Macs is they put OK and Cancel the right way round in the dialog boxes. I tend to like Macs -- but to each their own. I certainly do not get the religious wars as to which is better. I also use Windows and Linux, and each has pros and cons. -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. |
#27
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Microsoft end of support dates
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 22:53:48 +0100, Snit wrote:
On 7/10/20 2:49 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote: ... It's a pity Apple don't do compatibility any more. Every time a new connector comes out, they ditch the old one. I remember having to throw away or donate printers etc when we changed to Macs with USB on them instead of serial ports. PCs however kept the serial and parallel ports, and some made now still have them! Apple has always gone their own way with ports... which has pros and cons. For the most part it has not been a problem for me -- but there have been times. And even when the ports work, they drop support for things, like their own modems. Not a huge deal for me but not ideal. I stick to PCs for 4 reasons. 1) The interface is way easier. 2) They're half the price due to competition. 3) Way more software and hardware available. 4) They don't look like something a woman would buy. The only thing I like about Macs is they put OK and Cancel the right way round in the dialog boxes. I tend to like Macs -- but to each their own. I certainly do not get the religious wars as to which is better. I also use Windows and Linux, and each has pros and cons. I see Macs as a childish interface, it's too dumbed down, suited more for Americans. You can't argue about the cost, they're very expensive! Same goes for lack of software. And I don't want glittery shiny objects, I want a useful object. So er what is it you like about macs? As for Linux, I used it once a few weeks ago. I was told that a certain scientific program would run 3 times faster on Linux due to "better memory management". I think it was more that the program had been compiled better for Linux. I run several scientific programs, and tested them all on the same machine (well two identical ones), one under Linux and one under Windows. One of the programs out of 7 was much faster, 2 were slightly slower, and the other 4 were identical. But what made me stick with windows was the first hurdle - installing the program. So I download the program, but Linux opens it in a text editor (or tries to, it was too big) when I double click it. After googling the problem, I find I have to go to the properties of the file and allow it run as a program. Now I have to right click and select "run as a program", which isn't in my menu. So I tried running it from a command prompt. Despite being in the directory I had placed it, it couldn't see it! Apparently I have to prefix it with ./ to indicate it should look in front of it's nose and not in the system folder. Anyway I gave up and used some installer program that comes with the OS, similar to the Android Google Play thingy. |
#28
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 3:32 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 22:53:48 +0100, Snit wrote: On 7/10/20 2:49 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote: ... It's a pity Apple don't do compatibility any more.* Every time a new connector comes out, they ditch the old one.* I remember having to throw away or donate printers etc when we changed to Macs with USB on them instead of serial ports.* PCs however kept the serial and parallel ports, and some made now still have them! Apple has always gone their own way with ports... which has pros and cons. For the most part it has not been a problem for me -- but there have been times. And even when the ports work, they drop support for things, like their own modems. Not a huge deal for me but not ideal. I stick to PCs for 4 reasons. 1) The interface is way easier. 2) They're half the price due to competition. 3) Way more software and hardware available. 4) They don't look like something a woman would buy. The only thing I like about Macs is they put OK and Cancel the right way round in the dialog boxes. I tend to like Macs -- but to each their own. I certainly do not get the religious wars as to which is better. I also use Windows and Linux, and each has pros and cons. I see Macs as a childish interface, it's too dumbed down, suited more for Americans. Do you have examples. One of the things I like is the integration and focus on usability. But, again, to each their own. You can't argue about the cost, they're very expensive! Yes and no. For comparable machines they are about the same, but you have FAR less choice and no low end models. Same goes for lack of software. There may be less, but some of the best software is Mac only. And software that runs on both often has features on the Mac lacking on Windows. Take Photoshop -- you can tap into the macOS color pickers and have swatches and palettes you share with other software. It makes a difference. And I don't want glittery shiny objects, I want a useful object. So er what is it you like about macs? I list some above, but mostly it is about getting things done. I am focused on task completion more than most. As for Linux, I used it once a few weeks ago.* I was told that a certain scientific program would run 3 times faster on Linux due to "better memory management".* I think it was more that the program had been compiled better for Linux.* I run several scientific programs, and tested them all on the same machine (well two identical ones), one under Linux and one under Windows.* One of the programs out of 7 was much faster, 2 were slightly slower, and the other 4 were identical.* But what made me stick with windows was the first hurdle - installing the program.* So I download the program, but Linux opens it in a text editor (or tries to, it was too big) when I double click it.* After googling the problem, I find I have to go to the properties of the file and allow it run as a program.* Now I have to right click and select "run as a program", which isn't in my menu.* So I tried running it from a command prompt.* Despite being in the directory I had placed it, it couldn't see it!* Apparently I have to prefix it with ./ to indicate it should look in front of it's nose and not in the system folder.* Anyway I gave up and used some installer program that comes with the OS, similar to the Android Google Play thingy. Linux is good as long as you know it well before you use it. -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. |
#29
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Microsoft end of support dates
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:29:07 -0400, Wolffan
wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, Apd wrote (in article ): "Commander Kinsey" wrote: On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 01:30:22 +0100, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:51:43 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" wrote: Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0 "Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985" "On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system." Those who used it regarded Windows 1.0 as obsolete almost from the beginning. I never even heard of it and wondered why Windows 2 was the first one. When I looked up that query, I found there was a windows 1. But it's very odd they supported it until 2001, by which times we'd had Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, NT 4 (and 1, 2, 3?) 2000. That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting MSDOS 6 as well as Win 2 & 3 which depended on it or lower versions. Win95& 98 ran on MSDOS 7+. 95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were applications running on DOS. And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows started to properly grow up. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#30
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Microsoft end of support dates
On 7/10/20 8:29 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 07:29:07 -0400, Wolffan wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, Apd wrote (in article ): "Commander Kinsey" wrote: On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 01:30:22 +0100, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:51:43 +0100, "Commander Kinsey" wrote: Just found this beauty: Windows 1.0 ran from 1985 until 2001! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_1.0 "Windows 1.0 was released on November 20, 1985" "On December 31, 2001, Windows 1.0 was declared obsolete and Microsoft stopped providing support and updates for the system." Those who used it regarded Windows 1.0 as obsolete almost from the beginning. I never even heard of it and wondered why Windows 2 was the first one. When I looked up that query, I found there was a windows 1. But it's very odd they supported it until 2001, by which times we'd had Windows 2, 3, 95, 98, NT 4 (and 1, 2, 3?) 2000. That 2001 date was also the time they stopped supporting MSDOS 6 as well as Win 2 & 3 which depended on it or lower versions. Win95& 98 ran on MSDOS 7+. 95/98/98SE/ME were actual OSes. Win 1/2/3.x were applications running on DOS. And Windows 2000 was actually NT5. It was where Windows started to properly grow up. Windows naming was weird back then. For the home it went from 3.1 to 95 to 98 to ME And for the pros it went from NT to 2000 Why have the numbers and two-letter combos switch? -- Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again. |
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